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BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II

Dave the Gnome 15 Mar 17 - 10:20 AM
Teribus 15 Mar 17 - 10:19 AM
Teribus 15 Mar 17 - 10:08 AM
Jim Carroll 15 Mar 17 - 10:05 AM
Dave the Gnome 15 Mar 17 - 10:04 AM
Jim Carroll 15 Mar 17 - 09:55 AM
Steve Shaw 15 Mar 17 - 09:53 AM
Teribus 15 Mar 17 - 09:49 AM
Teribus 15 Mar 17 - 09:40 AM
Dave the Gnome 15 Mar 17 - 09:33 AM
Dave the Gnome 15 Mar 17 - 09:21 AM
bobad 15 Mar 17 - 09:13 AM
Keith A of Hertford 15 Mar 17 - 08:50 AM
Keith A of Hertford 15 Mar 17 - 08:39 AM
Dave the Gnome 15 Mar 17 - 07:47 AM
Jim Carroll 15 Mar 17 - 07:45 AM
Steve Shaw 15 Mar 17 - 07:45 AM
Steve Shaw 15 Mar 17 - 07:23 AM
Dave the Gnome 15 Mar 17 - 07:14 AM
Jim Carroll 15 Mar 17 - 06:05 AM
Dave the Gnome 15 Mar 17 - 06:05 AM
Jim Carroll 15 Mar 17 - 06:03 AM
Keith A of Hertford 15 Mar 17 - 05:30 AM
Keith A of Hertford 15 Mar 17 - 05:26 AM
Keith A of Hertford 15 Mar 17 - 05:17 AM
Dave the Gnome 15 Mar 17 - 05:10 AM
Teribus 15 Mar 17 - 04:23 AM
Dave the Gnome 15 Mar 17 - 03:50 AM
Teribus 15 Mar 17 - 03:09 AM
Steve Shaw 14 Mar 17 - 06:09 PM
Steve Shaw 14 Mar 17 - 06:06 PM
bobad 14 Mar 17 - 05:45 PM
Teribus 14 Mar 17 - 05:24 PM
Greg F. 14 Mar 17 - 05:12 PM
Steve Shaw 14 Mar 17 - 05:08 PM
Greg F. 14 Mar 17 - 04:37 PM
Dave the Gnome 14 Mar 17 - 04:28 PM
Greg F. 14 Mar 17 - 04:18 PM
akenaton 14 Mar 17 - 03:52 PM
akenaton 14 Mar 17 - 03:47 PM
akenaton 14 Mar 17 - 03:45 PM
bobad 14 Mar 17 - 03:39 PM
Greg F. 14 Mar 17 - 03:37 PM
akenaton 14 Mar 17 - 03:29 PM
Greg F. 14 Mar 17 - 03:13 PM
akenaton 14 Mar 17 - 03:01 PM
Jim Carroll 14 Mar 17 - 02:35 PM
Greg F. 14 Mar 17 - 02:32 PM
Dave the Gnome 14 Mar 17 - 01:27 PM
Steve Shaw 14 Mar 17 - 01:11 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Mar 17 - 10:20 AM

Funnily enough Teribus, I did know that. Surprised that you did though considering that you do not believe in dealing in trivia. There may be hope for you yet!

:D tG


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Teribus
Date: 15 Mar 17 - 10:19 AM

Gnome the connection between "the Troubles" and the situation in the middle-east is what?


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Teribus
Date: 15 Mar 17 - 10:08 AM

Dave the Gnome - 15 Mar 17 - 07:47 AM

Yeahhh - Captain Pugwash. I have a perfect contender for that role. We just need to decide who is Seaman Staines and Roger the cabin boy now...


I forgot that your lot do tend to believe in out dated and clichéd stereotypes - when it suits your purposes. Your belief in falsehoods, myths and misrepresentations is truly heartening.

Bit of info for you Gnome about Captain Pugwash

Seaman Staines?? - No such character ever existed
Roger the cabin boy?? - The cabin boy's name was Tom.

Oh and no Master Bates either.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Mar 17 - 10:05 AM

"And French schools but only Jewish ones.
Deny that?"
You deliberately missed out that the perpetrator of the attacks also killed Muslims - deny that?
Those attacks were randomly carried out by a nutter - not antisemitic - unless you consider Muslim soldiers Semites
More distortion and lies Keith - you seem to have no limits to the depths you plunge?
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Mar 17 - 10:04 AM

If you think that the "Troubles" in Northern Ireland had anything whatsoever to do with religion then you are deluding yourself.

And yet you say that antisemitism or the situation in the middle east has something to do with religion?

Different morality
Different language
Different planet

:D tG


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Mar 17 - 09:55 AM

"Then stop telling lies about what I have said."
Then address what I have said - any moron can accuse somebody of being a liar without providing evidence
I have given you your statements - did you make them or have I conjured them up from thin air?
Did you not claim an "implant"?
If your answer is no, I will put it up again
Have you consistently refused to put up examples of anybody else doing so?
If so, either put them up again or at least link us to them
No response and you are lying.
Did you not put up thousand year old shite about child marriage to prove Muslims were inclined to paedophilia?
My response will be as before
Did you not claim that the Jewish members of Parliament reported the antisemitism to Corbyn yet did not take it further because of their loyalty to the party?
Your antisemitsm started when you accused me and other critics of the Israeli regime of being antisemitic for our criticism - that is against the last item in the then accepted definition - Israel has since made nonsense of any definition by declaring openly that CRITICISM OF ISRAEL IS ANTISEMITIC
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Mar 17 - 09:53 AM

Just off to Waitrose as they are the only shop round here that sells this new cheese I've discovered. It's French, semi-soft and it's called Vallage. Sublime! See you later!


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Teribus
Date: 15 Mar 17 - 09:49 AM

Oh sorry Gnome forgot to address your last point. If you think that the "Troubles" in Northern Ireland had anything whatsoever to do with religion then you are deluding yourself. But there again I forgot that your lot do tend to believe in out dated and clichéd stereotypes - when it suits your purposes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Teribus
Date: 15 Mar 17 - 09:40 AM

Here's the exchange Gnome:

1: Greg F. - 14 Mar 17 - 02:32 PM

"Good article on the poison of anti-Semitism raging through Europe today in the The Atlantic "Is It Time for the Jews to Leave Europe?" (bobad).

Interesting. Have they also got a good article on the rampant Islamophobia raging thru Europe and epecially the U.S. & in the age of Trumpism, is it time for Muslims to flee the United States for safe sanctuary elsewhere? Mexicans ditto?

Greg F's question to bobad - How did you miss the "rampant Islamophobia raging thru Europe and epecially the U.S. Gnome?

2: bobad responded to Greg F's question about "Islamophobia" I Europe and the U.S.A. as follows:

bobad - 14 Mar 17 - 03:39 PM

"Have they also got a good article on the rampant Islamophobia raging thru Europe and epecially the U.S" Greg F's question.

"Yes, there is Islamophobia in the world today but hate crimes directed against Muslims are but a fraction of those directed against Jews even though there are some 1.8 billion Muslims in the world as compared to 16 million Jews. Why do you think that is? Why are Jews leaving Europe in record numbers, for their safety, while Muslims are arriving in Europe for theirs? Anti-Semitic incidents in Britain are at levels never before seen while in Germany attacks on German Jews have increased by 200%. Why is this happening?"

Direct question responded to by an honest and accurate answer.

3: YOU then jump in Gnome, selectively quote what was said out of context and completely ignore the boundaries set by Greg F:

Dave the Gnome - PM
Date: 14 Mar 17 - 04:28 PM

Another strange assertion


"but hate crimes directed against Muslims are but a fraction of those directed against Jews" - bobad

"Have you the remotest idea how many Muslims have been killed in hate crimes against their religion? How many Shia have been killed in Jihads by Sunnis? How many Sunni Muslims killed by Shias? Just because they believe a different version of the same fairy story. Or, because it is Muslim killing Muslim, is that OK?

So tell where in the USA or in Europe Sunni and Shia Muslims are killing one another. Nice try at a diversion Gnome but you're not getting away with it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Mar 17 - 09:33 AM

So keep it up Dave, I'm laughing at you

To be laughed at by someone of your ilk is a compliment of the highest order poobad. It is when you begin to agree with me I will worry.

:D tG


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Mar 17 - 09:21 AM

But, but, but, Keith, you said "In France and Britain Jewish schools, and only Jewish schools, require armed guards." This means that Jewish schools in France and Britain have armed guards. Are there any armed guards in British schools? Do you have any evidence of that?


And -

Anyone reading it would assume it was global.

They would not.


Well, I did. Some I guess that other people would.

Different morality
Different language
Different planet

Glad you are getting to see that as well. Unlike you however I will not say that either is shit. Just different.

:D tG


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: bobad
Date: 15 Mar 17 - 09:13 AM

I see Dave has gone over to the dark side with the liars, cheaters and dissemblers who, unable to confront facts that destroy their ideological positions, try to divert from them with phony counter arguments that are so obvious as to be pitiful. So keep it up Dave, I'm laughing at you as you flounder in the muck with the rest of your pack.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Mar 17 - 08:50 AM

Today,
"Labour Cllr Barry Henley (Brandwood) said: "These are clearly anti-Semitic postings. In my view there should be a Labour Party investigation into Ms Gove-Humphries membership and suitability to be a candidate and in the meantime a new candidate should be put in place."
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/call-labour-hall-green-candidate-12743989


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Mar 17 - 08:39 AM

Jim,
I have no wish to continue with this, but I will not be called a liar, nor will I let racism pass without challenging it ?

Then stop telling lies about what I have said.
If you want to challenge something, quote what I really said.
I too will not let racism, including anti-Semitism, pass without challenging it.

Dave,
No ruse and no dishonesty, Keith. The statement said nothing about the west. Anyone reading it would assume it was global.

They would not.
The statement did not need to specify the West because that had been established as the subject of discussion.
He would only need to specify if he was changing the subject from the West.
Your ruse to discredit his point was blatantly and knowingly dishonest Dave.
Different morality.
Different language.

Jim again,
"Armed guards in British schools? "

And French schools but only Jewish ones.
Deny that?


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Mar 17 - 07:47 AM

Yeahhh - Captain Pugwash. I have a perfect contender for that role. We just need to decide who is Seaman Staines and Roger the cabin boy now...

:D tG


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Mar 17 - 07:45 AM

"Armed guards in British schools? "
Keith is using a single attack by a single nutter in Toulouse to show a 'rise in antisemitism, v#carefully omitting to mention that at the same time the attacker also targeted French Muslim soldiers, killing seven and wounding fiv
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Mar 17 - 07:45 AM

At the risk of seeming flippant in this already far too light-hearted thread, I wish to say that, in my opinion, very few hate crimes are directed at people because of their religion as such. It's a matter of attacking "the other" just like it always was with "religious wars" in the past. The Crusaders were not fighting for their better God, were they? That was a ruse to justify their quest for power, wealth and expansion of empire. A conspicuous Cross on your battledress to distinguish you from the heathen you were conquering looked good back home too. If there were really a God he'd be bloody angry at anyone using his name to justify hate crimes.

And as for us being 500 years more "advanced," try telling that to the women being hassled by Christian hypocrites outside abortion clinics.

Not trying to egg anyone on, you understand....


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Mar 17 - 07:23 AM

"Whoops," Jim? Has somebody trod on a duck? Floated off an air biscuit?? Cut the cheese???

Burble on, Keith. Thou talketh ordure and you'll get no more ebb and flow from me (wasn't that a cartoon once? Eb and Flo? Train of thought here: cartoon? Eb and Flo? Keith? Mickey Mouse? Teribus? Cap'n Pugwash? Any more for any more?)

Dave, get the bloody joke right! Ahem:

Q. Why does a Frenchman only have one egg for breakfast?

A. Because to a Frenchman one egg is un oeuf!


You don't have to like French jokes, of course. After all, one man's fish is another man's poisson... Whaddam I like! 😂

What is the Western World? Why, anything the other side of the old panhandle, of course! Wyatt Earp, Cisco Kid, Duke Wayne, the Loan Arranger -- there, that should cover most of it...


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Mar 17 - 07:14 AM

Armed guards in British schools? Are you sure of that Keith. I can find no mention of gun toting security guards in the UK. What I did find was an interesting comment by Amber Rudd, reported in the Telegraph, though

The Home Secretary said she was forced to act after receiving 924 reports of anti-Semitic incidents, including 86 violent assaults, last year.

Ms Rudd warned against the "increasingly sophisticated" tactics of far-right extremists in the wake of the murder of Labour MP Jo Cox.

She said that groups were becoming better at harnessing the use of social media for promoting their cause and hauling in new members.


Hardly pertinent to a discussion on the Labour party is it? May as well talk about wild flowers...

:D tG


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Mar 17 - 06:05 AM

Whoops
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Mar 17 - 06:05 AM

No ruse and no dishonesty, Keith. The statement said nothing about the west. Anyone reading it would assume it was global. I was attempting to rectify that situation and have now done so.

Your ruse to discredit my statement is just blatantly dishonest Keith

Talking of eggs and ruses I wouldn't mind trying Oeufs à la Russe. Anyone got a good recipe?

:D tG


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Mar 17 - 06:03 AM

"The point Keith has been making for months, is that there is a "culture" of Anti Semitism in the left of the UK labour Party."
He has failed miserably to make that point
The only evidence we have is that pro Israeli group received their instructions from Israel that they should smear the Labour Party with accusations of Anti-Semitism following Corbyn's statement that, under his leadership, they would back BDS- the date of that first meeting precedes the attacks by a few weeks.
Corbyn won overwhelming support of the rank and file of the Labour Party, so the New Labour crowd decided to jump on the Anti-Semitism bandwagon n order to rid the party of a leader thy considered a liability.
The makeup of the most vociferous of those attacks indicates this s the case, and the fact that no evidence has emerged other than unqualified accusations by one or other of the above groups.
You do not try people for murder without specif#ying who they killed, and what form the murder took - and then you go on to provide your evidence.
You don't try people for theft without specifying what they stole and how they stole it.
You do not accuse a party of "serious Antisemitism" without describing what form it takes and how many are involved - you certainly don't accuse a party with a track record of opposing bigotry and racism (even you, with your pathetic claims of being a "socialist" knows that)
All this is not just natural justice - it's common sense - making accusations without backing them up with facts is witch-hunting, pure and simple.
Despite this, Keith has persisted in his sickening campaign, refused to acknowledge the simple commonsense that YOU CANNOT FIND ANYBODY GUILTY OF ANYTHING ON THE BASIS OF ACCUSATIONS ALONE - YOU HAVE TO SPECIFY WHAT THEY HAVE DONE IN DETAIL - NO DETAILS HAVE BEEN FORTHCOMING - END OF STORY
So desperate was Keith to smear the Labour Party he let slip his own antisemitism by inventing a 'Jewish Plot', whereby all the Jewish Members of parliament decided to cover up the nature of Labour's Antisemitism in the interests of their party - how desperate can you get?
He has led throughout - he invented his invisible army yet still refuses to quote them - and he never will
No public figure would ever make such a horrendous statement publicly without not only losing their job, but also be prosecuted for inciting race hatred.
To suggest that an entire religious/racial community is culturally inclined to have underage sex is racist filth - that is what Keith has indulged in here
In the middle of his attempts to smear the Muslim people by quoting a thousand year old marriage - and clams he only did so before somebody else did - pathetic!!
Keith continues to insist that he quoted the people he claimed backed his "implant" theory ? yet he continues to refuse to quote them
He now says that the Jewish members of parliament did describe the anti-Semitism that was taking place after having said that they had told Corbyn and left it in his hands, and made no statements publicly "for love of the party" ? his inconsistencies have now gone ballistic
I brought this up again when he called me a liar and challenged me to produce evidence of his extremism ? he has dug himself an deep hole which he would be well advised to climb out of and walk away from.
I have no wish to continue with this, but I will not be called a liar, nor will I let racism pass without challenging it ? it does too much damage to people's lives and it destroys our society.
This is a decent forum which gives us the opportunity to express and share our ideas ? I would certainly not with to be part of it if I were either a Muslim or a homosexual ? the few extremists we have, have made certain of that.
Jim Carroll
"The point Keith has been making for months, is that there is a "culture" of Anti Semitism in the left of the UK labour Party."
He has failed miserably to make that point
The only evidence we have is that pro Israeli group received their instructions from Israel that they should smear the Labour Party with accusations of Anti-Semitism following Corbyn's statement that, under his leadership, they would back BDS- the date of that first meeting precedes the attacks by a few weeks.
Corbyn won overwhelming support of the rank and file of the Labour Party, so the New Labour crowd decided to jump on the Anti-Semitism bandwagon n order to rid the party of a leader thy considered a liability.
The makeup of the most vociferous of those attacks indicates this s the case, and the fact that no evidence has emerged other than unqualified accusations by one or other of the above groups.
You do not try people for murder without specif#ying who they killed, and what form the murder took - and then you go on to provide your evidence.
You don't try people for theft without specifying what they stole and how they stole it.
You do not accuse a party of "serious Antisemitism" without describing what form it takes and how many are involved - you certainly don't accuse a party with a track record of opposing bigotry and racism (even you, with your pathetic claims of being a "socialist" knows that)
All this is not just natural justice - it's common sense - making accusations without backing them up with facts is witch-hunting, pure and simple.
Despite this, Keith has persisted in his sickening campaign, refused to acknowledge the simple commonsense that YOU CANNOT FIND ANYBODY GUILTY OF ANYTHING ON THE BASIS OF ACCUSATIONS ALONE - YOU HAVE TO SPECIFY WHAT THEY HAVE DONE IN DETAIL - NO DETAILS HAVE BEEN FORTHCOMING - END OF STORY
So desperate was Keith to smear the Labour Party he let slip his own antisemitism by inventing a 'Jewish Plot', whereby all the Jewish Members of parliament decided to cover up the nature of Labour's Antisemitism in the interests of their party - how desperate can you get?
He has led throughout - he invented his invisible army yet still refuses to quote them - and he never will
No public figure would ever make such a horrendous statement publicly without not only losing their job, but also be prosecuted for inciting race hatred.
To suggest that an entire religious/racial community is culturally inclined to have underage sex is racist filth - that is what Keith has indulged in here
In the middle of his attempts to smear the Muslim people by quoting a thousand year old marriage - and clams he only did so before somebody else did - pathetic!!
Keith continues to insist that he quoted the people he claimed backed his "implant" theory ? yet he continues to refuse to quote them
He now says that the Jewish members of parliament did describe the anti-Semitism that was taking place after having said that they had told Corbyn and left it in his hands, and made no statements publicly "for love of the party" ? his inconsistencies have now gone ballistic
I brought this up again when he called me a liar and challenged me to produce evidence of his extremism ? he has dug himself an deep hole which he would be well advised to climb out of and walk away from.
I have no wish to continue with this, but I will not be called a liar, nor will I let racism pass without challenging it ? it does too much damage to people's lives and it destroys our society.
This is a decent forum which gives us the opportunity to express and share our ideas ? I would certainly not with to be part of it if I were either a Muslim or a homosexual ? the few extremists we have, have made certain of that.
Jim Carroll
"The point Keith has been making for months, is that there is a "culture" of Anti Semitism in the left of the UK labour Party."
He has failed miserably to make that point
The only evidence we have is that pro Israeli group received their instructions from Israel that they should smear the Labour Party with accusations of Anti-Semitism following Corbyn's statement that, under his leadership, they would back BDS- the date of that first meeting precedes the attacks by a few weeks.
Corbyn won overwhelming support of the rank and file of the Labour Party, so the New Labour crowd decided to jump on the Anti-Semitism bandwagon n order to rid the party of a leader thy considered a liability.
The makeup of the most vociferous of those attacks indicates this s the case, and the fact that no evidence has emerged other than unqualified accusations by one or other of the above groups.
You do not try people for murder without specif#ying who they killed, and what form the murder took - and then you go on to provide your evidence.
You don't try people for theft without specifying what they stole and how they stole it.
You do not accuse a party of "serious Antisemitism" without describing what form it takes and how many are involved - you certainly don't accuse a party with a track record of opposing bigotry and racism (even you, with your pathetic claims of being a "socialist" knows that)
All this is not just natural justice - it's common sense - making accusations without backing them up with facts is witch-hunting, pure and simple.
Despite this, Keith has persisted in his sickening campaign, refused to acknowledge the simple commonsense that YOU CANNOT FIND ANYBODY GUILTY OF ANYTHING ON THE BASIS OF ACCUSATIONS ALONE - YOU HAVE TO SPECIFY WHAT THEY HAVE DONE IN DETAIL - NO DETAILS HAVE BEEN FORTHCOMING - END OF STORY
So desperate was Keith to smear the Labour Party he let slip his own antisemitism by inventing a 'Jewish Plot', whereby all the Jewish Members of parliament decided to cover up the nature of Labour's Antisemitism in the interests of their party - how desperate can you get?
He has led throughout - he invented his invisible army yet still refuses to quote them - and he never will
No public figure would ever make such a horrendous statement publicly without not only losing their job, but also be prosecuted for inciting race hatred.
To suggest that an entire religious/racial community is culturally inclined to have underage sex is racist filth - that is what Keith has indulged in here
In the middle of his attempts to smear the Muslim people by quoting a thousand year old marriage - and clams he only did so before somebody else did - pathetic!!
Keith continues to insist that he quoted the people he claimed backed his "implant" theory ? yet he continues to refuse to quote them
He now says that the Jewish members of parliament did describe the anti-Semitism that was taking place after having said that they had told Corbyn and left it in his hands, and made no statements publicly "for love of the party" ? his inconsistencies have now gone ballistic
I brought this up again when he called me a liar and challenged me to produce evidence of his extremism ? he has dug himself an deep hole which he would be well advised to climb out of and walk away from.
I have no wish to continue with this, but I will not be called a liar, nor will I let racism pass without challenging it ? it does too much damage to people's lives and it destroys our society.
This is a decent forum which gives us the opportunity to express and share our ideas ? I would certainly not with to be part of it if I were either a Muslim or a homosexual ? the few extremists we have, have made certain of that.
Jim Carroll
"The point Keith has been making for months, is that there is a "culture" of Anti Semitism in the left of the UK labour Party."
He has failed miserably to make that point
The only evidence we have is that pro Israeli group received their instructions from Israel that they should smear the Labour Party with accusations of Anti-Semitism following Corbyn's statement that, under his leadership, they would back BDS- the date of that first meeting precedes the attacks by a few weeks.
Corbyn won overwhelming support of the rank and file of the Labour Party, so the New Labour crowd decided to jump on the Anti-Semitism bandwagon n order to rid the party of a leader thy considered a liability.
The makeup of the most vociferous of those attacks indicates this s the case, and the fact that no evidence has emerged other than unqualified accusations by one or other of the above groups.
You do not try people for murder without specif#ying who they killed, and what form the murder took - and then you go on to provide your evidence.
You don't try people for theft without specifying what they stole and how they stole it.
You do not accuse a party of "serious Antisemitism" without describing what form it takes and how many are involved - you certainly don't accuse a party with a track record of opposing bigotry and racism (even you, with your pathetic claims of being a "socialist" knows that)
All this is not just natural justice - it's common sense - making accusations without backing them up with facts is witch-hunting, pure and simple.
Despite this, Keith has persisted in his sickening campaign, refused to acknowledge the simple commonsense that YOU CANNOT FIND ANYBODY GUILTY OF ANYTHING ON THE BASIS OF ACCUSATIONS ALONE - YOU HAVE TO SPECIFY WHAT THEY HAVE DONE IN DETAIL - NO DETAILS HAVE BEEN FORTHCOMING - END OF STORY
So desperate was Keith to smear the Labour Party he let slip his own antisemitism by inventing a 'Jewish Plot', whereby all the Jewish Members of parliament decided to cover up the nature of Labour's Antisemitism in the interests of their party - how desperate can you get?
He has led throughout - he invented his invisible army yet still refuses to quote them - and he never will
No public figure would ever make such a horrendous statement publicly without not only losing their job, but also be prosecuted for inciting race hatred.
To suggest that an entire religious/racial community is culturally inclined to have underage sex is racist filth - that is what Keith has indulged in here
In the middle of his attempts to smear the Muslim people by quoting a thousand year old marriage - and clams he only did so before somebody else did - pathetic!!
Keith continues to insist that he quoted the people he claimed backed his "implant" theory ? yet he continues to refuse to quote them
He now says that the Jewish members of parliament did describe the anti-Semitism that was taking place after having said that they had told Corbyn and left it in his hands, and made no statements publicly "for love of the party" ? his inconsistencies have now gone ballistic
I brought this up again when he called me a liar and challenged me to produce evidence of his extremism ? he has dug himself an deep hole which he would be well advised to climb out of and walk away from.
I have no wish to continue with this, but I will not be called a liar, nor will I let racism pass without challenging it ? it does too much damage to people's lives and it destroys our society.
This is a decent forum which gives us the opportunity to express and share our ideas ? I would certainly not with to be part of it if I were either a Muslim or a homosexual ? the few extremists we have, have made certain of that.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Mar 17 - 05:30 AM

Dave,
There was not mention of North America and Europe in that post though was there Teribus?

This whole discussion was and is specifically about hate crime in the West, and his post was made in that context.
If the context was changed he would have had to state that he was now referring to the global situation.

Your ruse to discredit his argument was just blatantly dishonest Dave.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Mar 17 - 05:26 AM

Steve,
If those US figures are true then hate crime against Jews in the western world's biggest nation is almost negligible!

Wrong Steve.
In the context of hate crime, Jews are overwhelmingly the most likely to be victims.

It may be true that hate crime is a tiny proportion of all crime, but Bobad was quite right to point out that Jews are disproportionately the victims of it.

Why do you feel the need to trivialise their persecution?
Have you any evidence whatsoever, however slight, to fuel your challenges?
If not, what is fueling them??

That persecution is driving Jews from Europe in a new mass exodus, while other minorities are striving to get in!
Are you happy with that?
In France and Britain Jewish schools, and only Jewish schools, require armed guards.
Are you happy with that?


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Mar 17 - 05:17 AM

Jim,
Your shitty - "no decent nation..." shite as a defence of Israeli terrorism is as pathetic as it gets.

I was just pointing out that decent democracies, like Scandinavian and other EU states, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand do not regard Israel as any kind of "rogue" or "terrorist" state and do not accuse it of war crimes.
The countries that do are the nastiest regimes with the very worst records of human rights abuses themselves. And you of course Jim.

You described Muslims as culturally implanted to rape under-age girls -fact

Lie. I have never linked any religion with any kind of offending and always maintained that religion played no part in it. You even quoted me last week, in red ink, saying just that!

You invented a phantom army f supporters who you claim saidf the same thing, yet have consistently refused #to quote them - fact

Lie. I quoted five people at the time, all in a position to know, saying the offending derived from the culture.

You claim never to have attacked the Muslim religion yet, in the middle f a discussion on Muslim criminality, you put up as argument a thousand year old Muslim Child marriage as evidence that the Muslim religion = under-age perversion - fact.

Lie. I made a factual statement about one of the Prophet's (peace be upon Him) wives which was relevant to the discussion, but added that child marriage was legal here until recently.

At a loss to com up with examples of antisemitism in the Labour Party, you accused the Jewish members of Parliament of refusing to describe the antisemitism
I have put your quotes up to you on all of these claims and will continue to do so as lonng as you go on denying you have made them - fact


Lie.
They did not refuse to describe anti-Semitism.
They did not stay silent.
Just like those who complained of misogyny and homophobia they gave full details of their grievances to the Party to deal with.
If I have ever said anything different, THEN QUOTE ME, LIAR!


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Mar 17 - 05:10 AM

There was not mention of North America and Europe in that post though was there Teribus? It was a plain unequivocal "hate crimes directed against Muslims are but a fraction of those directed against Jews".

500 years behind practicing religious tolerance eh? Fancy that. I didn't realise that the the troubles in Norther Ireland were 500 years ago. I could have sworn I remember one religious cult or another blowing members of another up but, if it was 500 years ago, I suppose I can't have.

:D tG


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Teribus
Date: 15 Mar 17 - 04:23 AM

Greg F and bobad are specifically addressing the situation in North America and Europe Gnome, as can be plainly seen from their respective posts so in terms of the discussion what one sect of Muslims is doing to another sect elsewhere in the world is irrelevant apart from demonstrating that they are about 500 years behind when it comes practicing religious tolerance, perhaps like us they will eventually get over it in time. Up until such a time, if they wish to slaughter one another then they'd best restrict their efforts to their own countries.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Mar 17 - 03:50 AM

No, fair's fair Steve. Teribus did ask some other questions - 4 actually rather than the 3 he states.

Really?? Where Gnome? Who was responsible for these shootings and beatings Gnome? Wouldn't be beatings and shootings carried out by other Muslims by any chance would it?

And I did only answer the last one so here are the other answers.

1. Yes
2. Various places around the world
3. Various criminals
and
4. I already answered.

So, now Teribus, maybe you will answer my question.

Do you think it is any different and should not be counted for some reason?

Over to you.

As to your most recent post, my statement was in answer to poobads assertion that "hate crimes directed against Muslims are but a fraction of those directed against Jews". Do try to keep up.

Eggs - Do you want to hear my egg joke?

Would you like one egg or two?

Just one please. I think one egg is an oeuf.

:D tG


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Teribus
Date: 15 Mar 17 - 03:09 AM

"Have you the remotest idea how many Muslims have been killed in hate crimes against their religion? How many Shia have been killed in Jihads by Sunnis? How many Sunni Muslims killed by Shias? Just because they believe a different version of the same fairy story." - Gnome

Here is the statement made by bobad that is being discussed, so far the evidence put forward seems to support it:

"Jews are targeted more than all other religious groups combined in most of the western world today." - bobad

What do you understand as being "the western world" Gnome? And could you let us know in which countries in the western world Muslims are being slaughtered wholesale in this Sunni/Shia Jihad to the extent where those countries are being consumed by it?

I see that those challenging bobad's statement have yet to introduce any evidence to disprove it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Mar 17 - 06:09 PM

Are you trying to sell me life insurance now, Greg? Pointless, mate - I've made a will and you're not in it! 😂


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Mar 17 - 06:06 PM

Before Dave gets a chance to reply, Teribus, I'm going to ask YOU three very serious questions.


1. How do you like your boiled eggs?


2. Do you wear Asda five-pairs-for-eight-quid boxers?


3. We (yes, WE) demand the whole truth about your trouser-drop on Blackpool Tower in 1975, and we (yes, WE) will not accept grubby photoshopped 8x10s.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: bobad
Date: 14 Mar 17 - 05:45 PM

Another strange assertion

We're talking in the West, but you knew that and are just misrepresenting, as usual, to further your agenda - you should be ashamed of yourself. If you want to bring the Middle East into the discussion then we can talk about anti-Semitism in the Islamic world but I doubt you would like to hear about that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Teribus
Date: 14 Mar 17 - 05:24 PM

"Where Gnome? Who was responsible for these shootings and beatings Gnome?"

I suppose answering one question out of three is a marked improvement, now answer the first two, so that we get the context.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Greg F.
Date: 14 Mar 17 - 05:12 PM

Is yer talkin' aboot eggs or aigs, then, Steve?


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Mar 17 - 05:08 PM

Nah then, chaps. Time to lighten up. These two clueless chappies (I'll lump them together and call them boob-ache just so you know to whom I refer) are having a desperate go at getting the poison back in. No debate is possible. I'm going to change the subject. They can't complain because they're already off-topic themselves, innit. So here goes.

What have we not talked about recently?

Er, lessee... maybe not footie (even though I'm jubilant about Man U getting beaten by Chelsea last night - where's old Mike when you need to gloat!) Not cheese - already come up in another thread...School dinners, done it already...

I know. Eggs. Don't worry, I won't rehash that Yorkshire omelette joke. I love eggs in any shape or form. Used to drink 'em straight from the shell until Edwina Currie put me off with her Salmonella scare. Used to beat three eggs with a drop of brandy and drink 'em for brekkie when I was at university. Cold hard boiled in a picnic, beautiful. Scotch eggs, glorious. Waitrose do one with black pudding. A little belter. Sunny side up, sunny side down, I don't care if they're a bit snotty. Share, fellers, share. And don't bloody tell me you're allergic to eggs. You'll be getting baseless assertions if you do that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Greg F.
Date: 14 Mar 17 - 04:37 PM

Or, because it is Muslim killing Muslim, is that OK?


Of course it's OK, Dave - ANYONE killing Muslims is OK for these folks.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Mar 17 - 04:28 PM

Another strange assertion

but hate crimes directed against Muslims are but a fraction of those directed against Jews

Have you the remotest idea how many Muslims have been killed in hate crimes against their religion? How many Shia have been killed in Jihads by Sunnis? How many Sunni Muslims killed by Shias? Just because they believe a different version of the same fairy story. Or, because it is Muslim killing Muslim, is that OK?

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Greg F.
Date: 14 Mar 17 - 04:18 PM

I presume the Israeli govt is composed of Jews Greg?

Entirely missing the point as ever, Ake. Willfully or idiotically is open to question.

hate crimes directed against Muslims are but a fraction of those directed against Jews

And your documentation for that assertion is what, exactly, Boo?


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: akenaton
Date: 14 Mar 17 - 03:52 PM

I think you are going round with a bad lot Greg, surely no need for insults my responses to you are always civil.

Other than the odd bit of banter.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: akenaton
Date: 14 Mar 17 - 03:47 PM

I presume the Israeli govt is composed of Jews Greg?


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: akenaton
Date: 14 Mar 17 - 03:45 PM

Jim, the aims and actions of Islamic Fundamentalist Terrorists are not to be confused with the very complicated and nuanced Palestinian /Israeli question.

Islamic Jihadists are dedicated to the overthrow and destruction of any who do not support their cause.....they discriminate against women and butcher homosexuals out of hand.....they are a menace to humanity, a menace which is becoming more dangerous and insidious by the day......how can a devout man of the left like yourself raise his voice in support of such an abomination?


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: bobad
Date: 14 Mar 17 - 03:39 PM

Have they also got a good article on the rampant Islamophobia raging thru Europe and epecially the U.S

Yes, there is Islamophobia in the world today but hate crimes directed against Muslims are but a fraction of those directed against Jews even though there are some 1.8 billion Muslims in the world as compared to 16 million Jews. Why do you think that is? Why are Jews leaving Europe in record numbers, for their safety, while Muslims are arriving in Europe for theirs? Anti-Semitic incidents in Britain are at levels never before seen while in Germany attacks on German Jews have increased by 200%. Why is this happening?


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Greg F.
Date: 14 Mar 17 - 03:37 PM

Suggest you try actually following the thread, Ake, before posting gratuitous uninformed nonsense.

And one more time: Nobody here - except idiots like yourself, Bobad & your fellow travellers, have EVER blamed the policies of the Israeli Governemt on "All Jews", or any Jews for that matter.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: akenaton
Date: 14 Mar 17 - 03:29 PM

Greg I haven't been following this thread very closely, but I'm sure Keith has provided evidence from other Labour members and I have definitely heard the comments which I have mentioned.

As far as most of the Left are concerned it is "easy meat" to blame the policies of the Israeli govt on ALL Jews.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Greg F.
Date: 14 Mar 17 - 03:13 PM

The point Keith has been making for months, is that there is a "culture" of Anti Semitism in the left of the UK labour Party

That indeed has been his claim, however it is devoid of any evidence to support said claim.

In the Age of Trump and "alternative facts", this should come as no surprise.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: akenaton
Date: 14 Mar 17 - 03:01 PM

The point Keith has been making for months, is that there is a "culture" of Anti Semitism in the left of the UK labour Party.

I have no doubt this is correct as I used to hear anti Jewish sentiments expressed regularly among the left wing people with whom I attended demos and protests in the seventies.

These people opposed the policies of the Israeli Govt vis a vis, the Palestinian question.......but abused all Jews on the fact that they were Jews, regardless of their personal views.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Mar 17 - 02:35 PM

"Of course it is not. There was anti-Semitism before there was an Israel!"
And the horror of the Holocaust tended to put it on the back burner.
You rightists turned your attention to Muslims - they became the new victims of your bigotry
Israel has re-kindled the flames of antisemitism by claiming its State Terrorism to be on behalf of the Jewish people - it vindicates its having done so by inventing New antisemitism - which is criticism of Israeli policy.
I am not obsessed - it's called humanitarianism when you object to seeing Israelis persecuting Muslims just as the Jews were persecuted by the Nazis
Accusations of antisemitism e#appeared within weeks of Corbyn reiterating his support for BDS
Each time those accusations died down, they were reignited by right wing Lablour supporters who returned from meetings with Israeli leaders.
Your shitty - "no decent nation..." shite as a defence of Israeli terrorism is as pathetic as it gets.
These people have remained silent on Israel's atrocities, just as they continued to support Assad when he was filling his torture chambers with opponents, or as Cameron went to pay his respects to the founder of the regime in Saudi while it was administering 1000 lashes to a journalist who spoke out of turn.... or all the other monsters we have sold weapons to or backed up with our support.
That's how "decent" your decent nations are.
Now about all tehse "liesw" I've been telling.
Put them up and let's see how they work out
You described Muslims as culturally implanted to rape under-age girls -fact
You invented a phantom army f supporters who you claim saidf the same thing, yet have consistently refused #to quote them - fact
You claim never to have attacked the Muslim religion yet, in the middle f a discussion on Muslim criminality, you put up as argument a thousand year old Muslim Child marriage as evidence that the Muslim religion = under-age perversion - fact.
At a loss to com up with examples of antisemitism in the Labour Party, you accused the Jewish members of Parliament of refusing to describe the antisemitism
I have put your quotes up to you on all of these claims and will continue to do so as lonng as you go on denying you have made them - fact
I ask again - what lies have I told
Jim Carroll

A JEWISH VIEW of ANTISEMITISM

Alon Ben-Meir - from The Jewish Post
Dr. Alon Ben-Meir is a professor of International Relations and Middle Eastern Studies at the Center for Global Affairs at New York University and is also a Senior Fellow and the Middle East Project Director at the World Policy Institute. Dr. Ben-Meir is an expert on Middle East politics and affairs, specializing in peace negotiations between Israel and the Arab states. For the past 25 years, he has operated as a liaison between top Middle Eastern officials and has been directly involved in various high-level negotiations.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Greg F.
Date: 14 Mar 17 - 02:32 PM

Good article on the poison of anti-Semitism raging through Europe today in the The Atlantic "Is It Time for the Jews to Leave Europe?".

Interesting. Have they also got a good article on the rampant Islamophobia raging thru Europe and epecially the U.S. & in the age of Trumpism, is it time for Muslims to flee the United States for safe sanctuary elsewhere? Mexicans ditto?


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Mar 17 - 01:27 PM

Getting back to something more sensible. I just played 'Constant Billy' through about half a dozen times without a hiccup! Wonder why the title reminded me of someone?

:D tG


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Mar 17 - 01:11 PM

No crime stats. We can't judge without numbers. If the numbers are anywhere near as low as you allege for the US and UK I'd say we have a virtually irreducible problem. How many crimes, what kinds of crimes, were they prosecuted or simply recorded as complaints? I know you think we should all be terribly shocked and not question things like this lest we get called antisemitic, but you can't go on like this, and we remember only too well the song and dance you made about a few handfuls of Labour members out of 600,000. You're peddling propaganda only and avoiding the hard reality.


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