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Strange rhyming structure ABABCCAB

davidkiddnet 04 Feb 17 - 10:40 PM
Thompson 05 Feb 17 - 03:22 AM
Will Fly 05 Feb 17 - 03:34 AM
Will Fly 05 Feb 17 - 03:38 AM
Stanron 05 Feb 17 - 03:53 AM
Will Fly 05 Feb 17 - 04:50 AM
Mr Red 05 Feb 17 - 02:07 PM
Stanron 05 Feb 17 - 02:54 PM
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Subject: Strange rhyming structure ABABCCAB
From: davidkiddnet
Date: 04 Feb 17 - 10:40 PM

What is rhyming structure called where a couplet interrupts an AB scheme e.g., ABABCCAB, does that style have a name? I heard some ancient ballads had the final verse go ABABCC "to end on a rhyming couplet resolution". However I've found 40 songs that have it on every verse. Can I read somewhere about this kind of stuff? These are variant examples:

COME ALL YOU SAILORS BOLD, = ABABCCCB
Come all you seamen bold,
And draw near, and draw near,
Come all you seamen bold
And draw near.
It's of an admiral's fame,
O brave Benbow was his name,
How he fought all on the main,
You shall hear, you shall hear.

JACK HALL = ABABAADE
I have furnished all my rooms,
lot by lot, lot by lot
I have furnished all my rooms,
lot by lot
I've furnished all my rooms
with black brushes and black brooms
And besides a chimney pot
which I stole.

CAPTAIN KIDD = ABABAAAB
Oh, my name is Captain Kidd,
As I sailed, as I sailed,
My name is Captain Kidd,
As I sailed,
My name is Captain Kidd
What law did still forbid
Unluckily I did
As I sailed.

THE SHAN VAN VOCHT = ABABCCCB
Oh ! the French are on the sea,
Says the Shan Van Vocht;
The French are on the sea,
Says the Shan Van Vocht;
Oh ! the French are in the Bay,
They'll be here without delay,
And the Orange will decay,
Says the Shan Van Vocht.

more variants:
ABAB CC BB
ABAB CC CBCB
ABAB CCC DCDC
ABAB AA ABAB
ABAB AA ACAC
ABAB AA AD
ABAC DD DC
ABAC DD DE
ABAC DD EC
ABCB CCB
ABCB DD E


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Subject: RE: Strange rhyming structure ABABCCAB
From: Thompson
Date: 05 Feb 17 - 03:22 AM

And they're all political songs…


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Subject: RE: Strange rhyming structure ABABCCAB
From: Will Fly
Date: 05 Feb 17 - 03:34 AM

I think it's really how you interpret the line length. You quote:

COME ALL YOU SAILORS BOLD, = ABABCCCB

Come all you seamen bold,
And draw near, and draw near,
Come all you seamen bold
And draw near.
It's of an admiral's fame,
O brave Benbow was his name,
How he fought all on the main,
You shall hear, you shall hear.

The assumption here is that the first 4 lines are ABAB - but you could equally write them as AA:

Come all you seamen bold and draw near, and draw near,
Come all you seamen bold and draw near.

The next four lines could also be written as BBA:

It's of an admiral's fame, O brave Benbow was his name,
How he fought all on the main,
You shall hear, you shall hear.

Thus AABBA - after all, the 3rd and 4th lines of your original ABAB are just a repeat of the 1st and 2nd.

That would be my interpretation - and in some of the song you quote, the 2nd "AB" is merely a repeat of the 1st "AB". I wouldn't say it's a strange style - just one among many.


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Subject: RE: Strange rhyming structure ABABCCAB
From: Will Fly
Date: 05 Feb 17 - 03:38 AM

Forgot to add - there's a certain distinction between "end of line" rhymes and "internal line" rhymes, which gives me my interpretation of line length and rhyme pattern.


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Subject: RE: Strange rhyming structure ABABCCAB
From: Stanron
Date: 05 Feb 17 - 03:53 AM

I first thought

Come all you seamen bold = A

And draw near = B

It's of an admiral's fame, = C

O brave Benbow was his name, =C

How he fought all on the main = A

which would give us

ABBABCCABB

I prefer

Come all you seamen bold,
And draw near, and draw near,         = A

Come all you seamen bold
And draw near.                        = A (near as dammit)

It's of an admiral's fame,
O brave Benbow was his name,        = B

How he fought all on the main,
You shall hear, you shall hear.        = A

or

AABA

much more familiar and also works melodically as well as verbally.


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Subject: RE: Strange rhyming structure ABABCCAB
From: Will Fly
Date: 05 Feb 17 - 04:50 AM

That makes sense as well - and even simpler.


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Subject: RE: Strange rhyming structure ABABCCAB
From: Mr Red
Date: 05 Feb 17 - 02:07 PM

was Stanron's post a typo?
fame, name are rhymes, with main being assonant/near rhyme
But hear and bold er um - not even dissonance!

IMHO the end of the line is most often where you can naturally draw breath or where the music dictates. Which makes some of those rhymes internal.

the poetic forms Villanelle and Sestina may indicate such schemes. Or gorge yourself on these poetic verse forms

Dylan Thomas used ABCDEECCA for one of his poems.

With lyrics the music can emphasise the rhyme scheme, and even allow it to flourish if it gets complicated.

Cole Porter loved enjambed rhymes, it made his songs flow rather than being punchy. Ella sings Cole with lyrics.

"We'll have Manhattan, the Bronx and Staten Island too, it's lovely going through the zoo." Where's the line end and what is the rhyme scheme? And what is a line?
nb, he avoided unnecessary repetition by going through the zoo, rather than to it. A master at work.


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Subject: RE: Strange rhyming structure ABABCCAB
From: Stanron
Date: 05 Feb 17 - 02:54 PM

Well Mr Red, I'm not aware of any typo. Is the example a song or a poem?

I looked at some of your links and before I lost the will to live failed to find As, Bs or Cs. These are common in song structure analysis where it is not uncommon to find rhymes at the end of alternate lines.


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