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Subject: RE: Origins: Reuben's Train - who was Reuben? From: GUEST,Hootenanny Date: 05 Jun 21 - 05:13 PM Phil, Up until 1942 in Tony Russell's Discog. the only recordings issued under the name "Hall Brothers" were from three recording sessions, February 1937, January 1938 and September 1938. These were by Roy Hall and Jay Hugh Hall". There is a note that the name was also used as a pseudonym for Arthur Fields and Fred Hall on the Clarion and Velvet Tone labels. The two titles issued on the Roan Mountain label were originally issued on the Victor Bluebird label both sides of BB B-8656 by Roy Hall and His Blue Ridge Entertainers. Recorded 9th October 1940. Atlanta. The only other pre WW2 recordings that I see for Tommy Magness were all recorded on 7th October 1940 Atlanta with Bill Monroe and also with Arthur Smith same date. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Reuben's Train - who was Reuben? From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch Date: 05 Jun 21 - 11:18 AM Hoot - Nope, it's the 'other' Roy. Click on the blue link just below that sentence in my post above. It's the Bear Family website bio for James Faye (Roy) Hall. Also, both Hall Twins and James Faye Hall served in WWII. If James Faye Hall's first work as a professional musician came after WWII and after Roy Davis Hall's death in 1943; it seems James Faye Hall could not have been playing in anybody's band at the time Roy Davis Hall died. Methinks, there's going to be a few years between Roy Davis Hall's passing and James Faye Hall taking the name. Did the Hall Twins ever perform as "The Hall Brothers" besides that mis-labeled Roan Mountain EP? Did Tommy Magness & The Hall Twins ever perform together under any name without Roy Davis Hall? |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Reuben's Train - who was Reuben? From: GUEST,Hootenanny Date: 05 Jun 21 - 04:49 AM What Bear Family notes are you referring to? Surely they are not issuing a box set of the Roan Mountain label. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Reuben's Train - who was Reuben? From: GUEST,Jerry Date: 05 Jun 21 - 04:47 AM I find these resurrected threads quite interesting reading for those of us who are fairly new to this website. Harking back to earlier posts above, I have long been struck by the lyrical and melodic similarities between Reuben’s Train, Train 45 and 900 Miles. (Dylan also uses the basic melody for his John Brown song surely?) However, they tend to be accompanied in different ways - 900 Miles tends to work well in minor keys, possibly following Pete Seeger and others, whereas the others tend to use major chords for the modal melody. Thanks to Earl Scruggs, Reuben tends to be played in D tuning (on five string), but for some reason Train 45 tends to use the standard G tuning. As someone else pointed out early on, you can of course accompany some of these melodies (plus I would argue the likes of Cotton Eyed Joe, Cumberland Gap, Shady Grove, Pretty Polly, Rain and Snow, Nottamun Town, etc) with just one chord anyway, or indeed none at all, if you want arguably to be truly authentic. Has our love affair with the guitar and our tendency towards a preoccupation with chord progressions unduly strait jacketed traditional songs I wonder? |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Reuben's Train - who was Reuben? From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch Date: 04 Jun 21 - 11:45 PM Well, that solves half a tangle with Roan Mountain, progress. The Bear Family liner notes/site are just a mess – “Who was/is Roy Hall? The next significant thing was that James Faye became 'Roy' sometime around 1945 or 1946. "About then," he told me, "I worked some around Roanoke, Virginia with some other boys, and we were the Hall Brothers. That was my first professional band really." He didn't specifically say so, but the brothers were probably banjoist Clayton Hall and his brother Saford, who played fiddle. The brothers had formerly worked with their older brother, Roy, as part of Roy Hall's Blue Ridge Entertainers, firstly out of South Carolina and latterly in and around the Virginias. They had recorded on Vocalion and Bluebird in the late 1930s and early 1940s. When guitarist Roy Hall died in an auto wreck in 1943, his brothers continued playing with a number of other musicians including, it seems, James Faye Hall.” I think we're getting closer to James Faye Hall not being related to Roy, Clayton or Safford but still replacing Roy in The Blue Ridge Entertainers and/or The (other) Hall Brothers c.1943. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Reuben's Train - who was Reuben? From: GUEST,Hootenanny Date: 04 Jun 21 - 06:46 PM Phil, Checking with Tony Russell's discography and the notes to the County 406 album by Roy Hall & his Blue Ridge Entertainers it would appear that the two tracks which are credited to The Hall Brothers on RM-1 were in fact from Roy Hall & his Blue Ridge Entertainers; Roy Hall, Tommy Magness, Bill Brown and twins Clayton & Sanford Hall (who were not related to Roy). They were recorded in October 1940. Red Wilson probably dubbed the tracks from Steve Ledford's large collection of 78's as he did for Steve's 12" album on the same label. Regarding the info re James Faye Hall I am puzzled. It seems that there were twelve Hall children three of whom went on to renown as musicians; Roy Davis Hall, Jay Hugh Hall and Rufus Hall born 1921. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Reuben's Train - who was Reuben? From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch Date: 04 Jun 21 - 03:17 PM Roan Mountain on Discogs. RM-1 track list: A1 Reubens Train (Steve & Wayne) A2 Cluck Old Hen (Steve & Wayne) B1 Don't Let Your Sweet Love Die (Steve, Roy & Jay) B2 Can You Forgive (Steve, Roy & Jay) Released in '71 not '72, oops. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Reuben's Train - who was Reuben? From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch Date: 04 Jun 21 - 01:49 PM FYI: See last few posts here. Hoot: also my Roan Mountain post above - From what I gather, the brothers Hall were: Roy Davis Hall (1907 – 1943) Jay Hugh Hall (1910 – 1971) James Faye Hall (1921 or 22 – 1984) aka Roy Hall (allmusic) “There had been a third brother, named Roy Hall, who had played piano but had died in a car accident in 1943. It was a natural jump, especially as the name was open and he was filling the slot in the group, but James Faye Hall picked up the name Roy Hall himself after the trio quit, initially so that he could extend his string of popularity by association. Whatever the motivations, it stuck, and so did the success, to the degree that Hall was leading his own band, the Cohutta Mountain Boys.” |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Reuben's Train - who was Reuben? From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch Date: 16 Apr 19 - 12:39 PM Given the lyrics didn't appear until the Yank's 1960s 'folk craze; I'd mark this one down with Drill Ye Tarriers &c as invented or imagined tradition. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Reuben's Train - who was Reuben? From: Pappy Fiddle Date: 16 Apr 19 - 11:14 AM I did some poking around from the other direction. The Madison Incline is a section of RR track that is now unused, too expensive to fix or maintain because the ground is not firm and there's a cut that's too deep. The city of Madison owns the land and they have designated it a hiking trail, walk at your own risk because of falling rock. The south end of the trail is at 38°44'25"N 85°23'46"W and the steep grade extends up to about 38°45'31"N 85°23'51"W. For those slightly away from the super teenager internet skill set, you can go to https://www.google.com/maps/ and enter the above lat/long values into the search field (or get one of those teenagers to help you :) There are any number of videos on it: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Madison+Incline One of special interest would be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06F63Fy4lgU where a manager of the RR gives a lot of information, including the fact there was not just one runaway train but several. The decision to put the RR thru there was one of those high level engineering decisions made by committee of non-engineer managers which resulted in endless problems that finally sunk the program after a lot of resources were sunk into it, like the Swedish ship "Vasa" and the solid rocket booster field joints on the Space Shuttle. These amazing boondoggles make good subjects of songs. (I've written a song about the Vasa, you can hear the tune at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7PsGtpyCsg ) and I'm working over the Reuben lyrics from the Madison Incline point of view. The quest to learn where this song or group of songs came from may be hopeless but I like to keep the art of wrenching old songs into new forms alive. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Reuben's Train - who was Reuben? From: GUEST,Gerry Date: 01 Mar 19 - 04:25 AM I'd say Reuben is more a Biblical name than a Jewish name. Plenty of Reubens who aren't/weren't Jewish. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Reuben's Train - who was Reuben? From: GUEST,David Gordon Koch Date: 01 Mar 19 - 03:38 AM I’m just taking this in a way different direction: Anyone else weirded out that this song that involves such a Jewish name also involves killing the person with said name — with a blade in the shade — and ‘‘starting a graveyard of my own’’? (At least in one typical version) Given the reality of, say, the lynching of Leo Frank in Georgia in 1915, that verse creeps me out. And the whole deadly theme in a song about a guy whose name seems probably Jewish just strikes me as... questionable? I mean it’s a spooky song regardless. I heard it played at a jam and was trying to learn the guitar and lyrics just now when I starting googling this and fell down the rabbit hole. Gotta say, that newspaper clipping quoted above is crazy. Anyway, maybe it’s about a runaway train, maybe it’s coded antisemitism, certainly it means many things to many people, curious to know what others think. From your friendly anti-fascist roots music fan -D |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Reuben's Train - who was Reuben? From: GUEST,Cenk Uyger Date: 21 Feb 17 - 06:39 AM I believe Dave Rubin hosts "The Rubin Report" on youtube. He is all about free speech. The Young Turks are not fans. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Reuben's Train - who was Reuben? From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch Date: 20 Feb 17 - 09:53 PM I think both of you are underestimating the construction push westward from the Erie Canal to the Pacific Railroads. Euro-American song dispersal reminds me more of that track laying bit in the Wrong Trousers. The countryside was trading in song months or years before they heard the first train whistle. Then... it's civilization Ho! The railroad came to western North Carolina in the 1890s. Proto-Muzac and wired radio were only twenty or thirty years behind. Grayson recorded in 1927, in Atlanta; Mainers and Ledfords in New York. But more on topic, as it stands, Reuben didn't make a train and put it on a track in American song verse until c.1960 and air travel. However, it does seem an unlikely number (?) of the very early recordings were made by the neighbors and relations of Ruben G. Ledford. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Reuben's Train - who was Reuben? From: GUEST,Joseph Scott Date: 20 Feb 17 - 08:06 PM "a new train song or a new version of one might thus get disseminated pretty rapidly" It's a fact that people who learned folk music used trains. The pursuit of regionalism (I never have heard what that pursuit's supposed to be for) may not fit great with that fact, but they did. Some lyrics about people traveling on trains: "The train got my honey and gone" -- John Lowry Goree, born about 1881 in Alabama "That passenger train got ways just like a man/Steal away your girl and don't care where she land" -- Floyd Canada, born about 1887 in Texas "I caught that Frisco, she was fairly flying/I was on my way to see that darling girl of mine" -- J.D. Suggs, born about 1887 in Mississippi "When I leave I'm going to leave on the cannon ball" -- Lasses White, born in about 1888 in Texas "I hate the train, train that carried my baby away..." -- Frank Stokes, born in the 1880s or 1870s in Mississippi or Tennessee In early blues music, "going" from one place to another, traveling quite a distance (e.g. "going where the chilly winds don't blow" or "going down the river 'fore long"), was an extremely common theme, because people did. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Reuben's Train - who was Reuben? From: Pappy Fiddle Date: 19 Feb 17 - 11:51 PM Something to take into account, songs originating on back porches would kind of stay in one place for a while, disseminate very slow. At least that's what they do on my porch... On the other hand, trains would crisscross the land pretty fast. So a new train song or a new version of one might thus get disseminated pretty rapidly. If there were any (legit) passengers on a freight train, they'd ride in the caboose. Brakemen and various other railroad people changing from one train to another and coming and going different directions. And I suppose that's where some of these gritty kinda train songs originated. If you never have, go to a railroad museum and look at a caboose. I doubt they rode smooth like a luxury coach with air suspension, nor quiet at all; swaying and bouncing magnified by the last third of the train. My dad rode relocated from Omaha to California in the 30's in one of these. He never mentioned that it was amusing. And probably not much to do, so if there was a banjo I reckon it would get used. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Reuben's Train - who was Reuben? From: Joe Offer Date: 19 Feb 17 - 02:12 AM Hi, Phil - I admit that I've had moments of disappointment with Long Steel Rail, but it's still the best of railroad songs I've ever seen. What has amazed me about this book, and railroad songs in general, is their close connection to actual events - and the fact that they are truly American songs, not derivatives of European ballads. My gut feeling is that "Reuben's Train" and "Train 45" are modern derivatives of the older "900 Mile" song. I think they come from musicians, not from railroaders. Can't prove that, though. -Joe- P.S. Hope y'all don't mind how I altered the thread title... |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Reuben's Train From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch Date: 19 Feb 17 - 12:24 AM Joe: Norm Cohen's Long Steel Rail is the most comprehensive train song book I know of. I can't make much sense of Cohen's methodology in LSR given he's dealing mostly with 3-5 minute samples of verses (cylinder & 78rpm) when the songs run 15-30 minutes in the wild. There's no accounting for the practical majority of missing verses in any one so-called song 'type'. I'm not qualified to speak on the entire pantheon of 900 Mile/Train 45/Reuben songs but, as for the Ledford's neck of the woods, this is the instrumental Old Ruben and when the verses are added it's Crazy Over You or just Crazy (mostly XXX Miles &c) I haven't found any mention in Cohen to an inside West Carolina joke on the latter song title and Wade Mainer's radio sponsor Crazy Water Crystals (a laxative.) The title seems to have escaped Cohen's net altogether. Not an easy miss but… still checking. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Reuben's Train From: Richie Date: 17 Feb 17 - 11:56 AM Hi, It seems possible that song Rueben's train could be based on the Rueben Wells after 1868, but proving it is another matter. The other name I know it by is "Train 45" and there's a version by Fiddlin' John Carson with a different title that dates way back in the 1800s. Reuben is an unusual name in the mountains. I doubt the song originated with the Rueben title. When were the first trains run through that area? Richie |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Reuben's Train From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch Date: 17 Feb 17 - 01:19 AM Correction/addition to the above: Victor 27493 is disc 1 of 5 and the reverse on the album is the Monroe Brothers' Darling Corey fwiw: Down in the Willow moves to disc 5 of 5 - #27497 |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Reuben's Train From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch Date: 16 Feb 17 - 10:37 PM Steve Ledford, Wayne Ledford, The Hall Brothers, Reubens Train (Roan Mountain EP, RM1, trk A1) The Hall Brothers are credited as "Roy & Jay" however, given the 7" RCA-EP format wasn't released until several years after "real" Roy Hall's death in 1943, this is either an older recording or replacement rockabilly brother James Faye "Roy" Hall (Whole Lotta Shakin' Goin' On.) |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Reuben's Train From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch Date: 16 Feb 17 - 08:23 PM Thanks for the references Joe. I wasn't sure how much duplication between threads would be considered sporting. RE: Traditional Ballad Index - "J. E. Mainer's Mountaineers [or Wade Mainer], "Riding on Train Forty-Five" (Bluebird B-7298, 1937; Victor 27493, 1941)" B-Side credits: Wade Mainer; Zeke Morris; Steve Ledford (A-side is Down in the Willow Mainer, Morris only. No Mountaineers A or B) Victor 27493 is disc 3:5 from the Smoky Mountain Ballads, Musical Smart Set album P-79 (78rpm.) Reissued on the Vintage Series LP RCA LPV507, 1964 and elsewhere. Same credits as above. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Reuben's Train From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch Date: 15 Feb 17 - 08:07 AM IMO Ruben G. Ledford (1858 - 1923) patriarch of the musical Ledfords of Mitchell, Co., NC. would be a much better candidate. Most of the artists and folk history centered around the Asheville, North Carolina region; as opposed to Madison, IN. It seems Ruben was the song title, the lyric not so much; and there were a fair number of instrumentals. I think the name just migrated into the storyline at some point. No other hint of the Lomax-Seeger reconstruction era lynching. I don't believe Ruben's son Waites (1879 - 1943) ever recorded; but his grandsons, Steve and Taft, covered just about every version imaginable (Carolina Ramblers; Wade Mainer &c) Nothing to back it up, probably never will, just a hunch. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Reuben's Train From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch Date: 14 Feb 17 - 03:50 AM Lomax's 1960/1939 version (#302) implies Willie Johnson as the source of the verses: 2. Well old Reuben had a train Ran from Boston down to Maine, You could hear the whistle blow a hundred miles, O Lordy, &c 3. Now you ought to been in town, When old Reuben's train went down, You could hear that whistle blow a hundred miles. ...and there is speculation in the notes of Reuben's lynching. By 1967's Hard Hitting Songs however, we're down to the two actual Johnson verses collected in 1939 and it's no longer a train song. When and where the other pre-1960 verses above were collected is not known. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Reuben's Train From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch Date: 14 Feb 17 - 03:47 AM Tried to locate our subject, or his train, in our 'typical lyric' narrative and the hypothesis has come off the rails instead: Versions vary widely; most contain a verse something like this: "Reuben had a train and he put it on the track..." It's MIA in my entire pre-1960s folk scare discography. To be clear, I'm not talking about instrumentals or song titles, just the critical lyric. Somewhere between the early 1960s Ashley - Watson Folkways recordings or Ash Grove, LA concerts and the Earl Scruggs Grand Ol' Opry routines. I'm not sure which just yet. From there it's The Dillards (1963) and Holy Modal Rounders (1964) near simultaneous releases. For some reason it got left off The Darlings' covers on The Andy Griffith Show. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Reuben's Train From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch Date: 10 Feb 17 - 05:15 PM I'm thinking it's kind of hard to be a subject when you don't have a narrative. If there's anything to it, the proof will be in the back story, outside of Arthur's generic lyrical buffet. The Madison Incline has always been more interesting to me because of its builders. The main topo feature is 'Irish Hollow' and the adjacent camp road is 'Paddys Lane' They finished about 1840 and by 1870, right through the Civil war and before Wells was even promoted, they had fought, cut and filled their way west clear across the Indian Nations to Immigrant Gap, UT. and the Mormon Saints and Chinese Celestials headed back East. The great bucolic plague and nary a WASP in sight! |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Reuben's Train From: Joe Offer Date: 10 Feb 17 - 02:40 PM So far, I'm thinking of this as an "interesting possible connection" between Reuben Wells and Reuben's Train - but I'm not ready to accept it as fact. Maybe this will be a question that will remain open at Mudcat for years, until we find something that ties it all together. Good sleuthing - but to me, still inconclusive. -Joe- For the sake of discussion, here are the two versions we have in the Digital Tradition: REUBEN'S TRAIN Ol Reuben made a train & he put it on a track He ran it to the Lord knows where Oh me, oh my ran it to the Lord knows where Should been in town when Reuben's train went down You could hear that whistle blow 100 miles Oh me, oh my you could hear the whistle blow 100 miles Last night I lay in jail had no money to go my bail Lord how it sleeted & it snowed Oh me, oh my Lord how it sleeted & it snowed I've been to the East, I've been to the West I'm going where the chilly winds don't blow Oh me, oh my I'm going where the chilly winds don't blow Oh the train that I ride is 100 coaches long You can hear the whistle blow 100 miles Oh me, oh my you can hear the whistle blow 100 miles I got myself a blade, laid Reuben in the shade, I'm startin' me a graveyard of my own. Oh, me, oh lordy my, startin' me a graveyard of my own. Repeat 1st verse @railroad filename[ RUBNTRAN BF oct99
REUBEN TRAIN
And the Traditional Ballad Index entry on this song: Reuben's TrainDESCRIPTION: Lyric piece about Reuben's train and travels. Versions vary widely; most contain a verse something like this: "Reuben had a train and he put it on the track, Hear the whistle blow a hundred miles."AUTHOR: unknown EARLIEST DATE: 1927 (recording, Grayson & Whitter, as "Train 45") KEYWORDS: train nonballad FOUND IN: US(SE) REFERENCES (5 citations): Cohen-LSRail, pp. 503-517, "Reuben's Train/Train 45/900 Miles" (2 texts plus exceprts equivalent to about three more, 2 tunes; the first text is close to "Reuben's Train," the second to "Nine Hundred Miles," but the article is mostly devoted to showing how the two songs mix) BrownIII 236, "Reuben's Train" (2 texts, with "A" being closer to "Nine Hundred Miles" than "B") BrownSchinhanV 236, "Reuben's Train" (3 tunes plus text excerpts) Warner 133, "Reuben's Train" (1 text, 1 tune) Lomax-FSNA 302, "Reuben" (1 text, 1 tune) Roud #3423 RECORDINGS: Emry Arthur, "Reuben Oh Reuben" (Paramount 3295, c. 1931; on BefBlues2) Dock Boggs, "Ruben's Train" (on Boggs3, BoggsCD1) Carolina Ramblers String Band, "Ruben's Train" (Banner 33085/Romeo 5345, 1934; Melotone M-13947, c. 1935) Bill Cornett ,"Old Reuben" (on MMOKCD) Elizabeth Cotten, "Ruben" (on Cotten02) [G. B.] Grayson & [Henry] Whitter, "Train 45" (Victor 21189, 1928, rec. 1927, on GraysonWhitter01) (Gennett 6320, 1927/Champion 15447 [as by Norman Gayle], 1928) Vester Jones, "Old Reuben" (on GraysonCarroll1) J. E. Mainer's Mountaineers [or Wade Mainer], "Riding on Train Forty-Five" (Bluebird B-7298, 1937; Victor 27493, 1941) Wade Mainer & the Sons of the Mountaineers, "Old Reuben" (Bluebird B-8990, 1941) New Lost City Ramblers, "Riding on That Train 45" (on NLCR06, NLCRCD2; on ClassRR [as "Train 45"]) Poplin Family, "Reuben" (on Poplin01) Wade Ward, "Old Reuben" [instrumental] (on Holcomb-Ward1) Doc Watson, "Old Ruben" (on Ashley02, WatsonAshley01) CROSS-REFERENCES: cf. "Nine Hundred Miles" cf. "Rain and Snow" SAME TUNE: Jack O'Diamond Blues (recorded by Blind Lemon Jefferson) ALTERNATE TITLES: Old Reuben NOTES: I know two tunes for this piece. One resembles "Nine Hundred Miles" and "Rain and Snow"; these three songs seems to have cross-fertilized (so much so, in fact, that I literally cannot tell which one was the more direct ancestor of the Grayson & Whitter recording; I placed it there almost arbitrarily). The other is that used by Frank Proffitt, who said of it, "This is one of the oldest simple banjo tunes.... It was generally the first tune learned, by playing two strings. There are about fifty different verses to this" (quoted by Warner). G. B. Grayson is said to have turned "Reuben's Train" into "Train 45" -- but they are still so close that I think they can be considered one song. - RBW Last updated in version 4.1 File: Wa133 Go to the Ballad Search form Go to the Ballad Index Instructions The Ballad Index Copyright 2016 by Robert B. Waltz and David G. Engle. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Reuben's Train From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch Date: 09 Feb 17 - 08:27 PM fwiw: Reuben Wells also broke his Engineer's neck… and everything else, no doubt: A Fearful Ride, —We learn from the Indianapolis Journal, that a locomotive descended the inclined plane at Madison, Indiana, on Monday last, owing to the wet track, got beyond control of the breaks, and went down the plane with fearful velocity. When within a hundred yards of a freight train which was standing on the track, the Engineer, Samuel Idler, and the Fireman, Thomas Bixette, took a desperate leap for life from the flying engine. Mr. Idler was dashed against a switch signal and instantly killed. Mr. Bixette struck the ground and instantly expired. Mr. B. J. Robinson, a clerk of the Company, who was also on the engine, clung to it, and by the collision with the freight train, was shockingly mangled, though yet living. [9 July 1855, Virginia Chronicle] This was one of the second generation Cathcart-Baldwin cog engines gone runaway. Engineer Idler was most likely laying on the whistle lanyard pretty hard coming down that hill. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Reuben's Train From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch Date: 09 Feb 17 - 08:12 PM The locomotive (tank engine) Reuben Wells and the Madison Incline were on the Jefferson, Madison & Indianapolis RR where Master Mechanic Reuben Wells (1829-1912) worked for 26 years before promotion/transfer to Kentucky and the Louisville & Nashville as General Manager. Certainly a major railroad personality in those parts. Emry Arthur (1902-1967) was born in Elk Spring Valley, Kentucky and relocated to Indianapolis mid-1920s. He died there in 1967, the year before the Reuben Wells came to the museum. A major folk source for your sub-set of lyrics. One of the reasons the locomotive was retired to Purdue U. was that Reuben Wells was a Trustee and help set up the mechanical – civil engineering departments in the 1870s. The engine was brought out for the '33-34 Chicago World's fair which was announced about the time of Arthur's release date on Paramount Records. Fun to speculate. Emry Arthur's great-grandson (Jeff Summers) was active on the genealogical websites at one time. You might try him. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Reuben's Train From: Joe Offer Date: 08 Feb 17 - 04:52 PM Interesting question, Pappy Fiddle. Norm Cohen's Long Steel Rail is the most comprehensive train song book I know of. It says "Reuben's Train" is one title for a number of songs in the "Train 45/500 Miles/900 Miles" group. It's one of the most commonly-sung railroad songs, and it has countless versions. None of these songs seem to have any tie to the locomotive you've found, so I'm wondering if there is no connection between your locomotive and the song. Cohen makes no mention of Reuben Wells, either the person or the locomotive. Maybe you're right and the locomotive and song are connected, but I'm not willing to buy into that yet. The Reuben Wells locomotive is an 0-10-0, a very interesting wheel configuration. Hope I get a chance to see it some day. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Reuben's Train From: Airymouse Date: 07 Feb 17 - 04:23 PM Ol Reuben had wreck And it broke Reuben's neck But it never hurt a hair on my head Ol Reuben's goin down the track And he's got the throttle back And the rails are a carryin him from home Your 4th verse is comparable to a verse from John Hardy: I've been to the East, and I been to the West I've been this whole world around I've been to the river and I've been baptized Tomorrow be my buryin ground, Oh Lord Tomorrow be my burying ground. |
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Subject: Origins: Reuben's Train From: Pappy Fiddle Date: 07 Feb 17 - 02:00 PM I see threads about this but they don't seem to be exactly about this so here goes... Reuben's Train is a song that I'm starting to hear a lot. I did a little digging and some thinking and I think I found the main origin of this song. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reuben_Wells_(locomotive) Reuben Wells is a locomotive designed in the 1860's by Reuben Wells to run on one specific section of track in Indiana. It was a helper engine designed to push trains up the 6% grade. Typical lyrics: 1. Ol Reuben made a train & he put it on a track He ran it to the Lord knows where Oh me, oh my ran it to the Lord knows where 2. Should been in town when Reuben's train went down You could hear that whistle blow 100 miles Oh me, oh my you could hear the whistle blow 100 miles 3. Last night I lay in jail had no money to go my bail Lord how it sleeted & it snowed Oh me, ... 4. I've been to the East, I've been to the West I'm going where the chilly winds don't blow Oh me, ... 5. Oh the train that I ride is 100 coaches long You can hear the whistle blow 100 miles Oh me, ... 6. I got myself a blade, laid Reuben in the shade, I'm startin' me a graveyard of my own. Oh me, ... The first verse there looks obvious to me that this is about Reuben Wells. The train goes to Lord knows where because it doesn't go anywhere - just up and down the one hill. The engine was returned to Indianapolis in 1968 with a big fanfare & parade. Remember life in Indiana is life in the slow lane. I think that was the 2nd verse... it originally was something like "shoulda been around when that engine came to town". Or maybe it just the engine coming back down the hill. Verse 4 might be about the engine going into a museum "wher the chilly winds don't blow". I surmise the rest of it has been accumulated, sort of like a wad of gum under the bed accumulates lint and cookie crumbs. My collection of old song anthologies etc is kinda limited so if anybody can confirm this... |
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