Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Apr 17 - 08:28 AM

whoever was responsible for editing the highlights show needs to rethink his/her career...

piss poor shoddy work...

school kids doing education video projects would hand in a better finished production..

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 12 Apr 17 - 04:46 AM

Tracks from the nominated musicians, on Spotify
BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017
http://open.spotify.com/album/4tpQBeGUHdNoEBUqPQJ4J5

& others not on that album
Josienne Clarke and Ben Walker
http://open.spotify.com/album/7wkd8uGGBjwGsxcV9LXeyz (2016)

Martin Green - Flit
http://open.spotify.com/album/7piZV2f8ZoAzIbKy7Kokjk 

Mohsen Amini --------

If Wishes Were Horses by Kris Drever
http://open.spotify.com/track/6ASiyqGXvbOr7MqAE8DsVc

Roll Away by Martin Green feat. Adam Holmes
http://open.spotify.com/track/1GRayKhbqAqTIjt6c4Bk9k

Van Diemen's Land by Daoiri Farrell
http://open.spotify.com/track/5IO2WqbAmjAf2cvt4ThRgJ 

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: The Sandman
Date: 10 Apr 17 - 01:25 PM

"Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: akenaton - PM
Date: 10 Apr 17 - 03:30 AM

Piece of ridiculous, self congratulary shite. Elitist nonsense which has no connection to music of the people.

I watched as much as I could stomach on TV.   
I was just an expensive gig for luvvies!"
Spot ON

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: Allan Conn
Date: 10 Apr 17 - 06:38 AM

The highlights were squeezed in with some winners (ie Furrow Collection for best band) getting no more than a couple of seconds clip. The whole thing though was on the red button for a while. I am not sure why only the highlights were shown and why the highlights only are on I-Player. Considering how many repeats etc are on there you'd think they could just show the entire event!!

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Apr 17 - 06:11 AM

Ah yes, "no connection to the music of the people". Quite true, there was no sign at all of Daniel O'Donnell.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: Johnny J
Date: 10 Apr 17 - 04:35 AM

Mmm, there was very little focus on the actual award winners themselves or samples of their work.

Plenty of attention given to the "luvvies" who announced them though. So, I'm almost in agreement with Akenaton here.

Of course, the programme was edited for TV and they decided to to mainly feature the live performances but these were not, mainly, the winning acts.

The Scots Trad Awards is arguably more balanced on TV even although BBC Alba edit and produce it to appear like a Gaelic Awards programme even although it's not.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: akenaton
Date: 10 Apr 17 - 03:30 AM

Piece of ridiculous, self congratulary shite. Elitist nonsense which has no connection to music of the people.

I watched as much as I could stomach on TV.   
I was just an expensive gig for luvvies!

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: GUEST,kenny
Date: 09 Apr 17 - 03:44 PM

bump - might be interesting to see how it comes across on TV as opposed to radio.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 08 Apr 17 - 02:15 PM

i'm sure its been maligned more than once....

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: GUEST,kenny
Date: 08 Apr 17 - 12:13 PM

Sunday 9th April - BBC Four, 10.00pm :
"For the first time The Radio 2 Folk Awards are being televised with an hour long highlights package, a sign of the increased popularity of the once-maligned genre"
Enjoy !

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 07 Apr 17 - 01:19 PM

How do you know they discourage people Dick? Do the Young Folk awards also discourage people - or indeed the BBC Young (Classical) Musician Awards?

I know we are not likely to agree on this - and I do have some reservations about awards but on balance feel they are an ok thing given the attention they get from the wider media (and thus potentially from new audiences who may go on to discover more about grassroots folk)

I am involved in the Yorkshire Gig Guide Grassroots Awards (multi genre) - like the BBC Folk Awards our Awards are not perfect but they provide a great opportunity for many in the live music scene to come together to celebrate the diversity and wealth of music in Yorkshire

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 07 Apr 17 - 01:01 PM

in your opinion my views are ridiculous?yet you cannot explain why you think they are ridiculous

Well I could have if you'd bothered to ask me. But you didn't...

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Apr 17 - 12:52 PM

in your opinion my views are ridiculous?yet you cannot explain why you think they are ridiculous.
Joe Grint on the other hand says there is room for these rewards, why is there room for rewards that end up discouraging the majority of young performers?and only encourage a small minority of people.
no, these awards are elitist.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 07 Apr 17 - 12:44 PM

But on occasion it highlights somewhat ridiculous views. But given how entrenched your stance is, there really isn't much point...

Have a nice evening.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Apr 17 - 12:32 PM

guest ed, Sarcasm is the refuge of a shallow mind.so fuck off

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 07 Apr 17 - 10:35 AM

even the "Best Album" only reflects subjective opinions

Wow! Thank you for that, Dick. I wouldn't ever have realised that if not for your insightful observation.

How would you like your undoubted brilliance to be rewarded?

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 07 Apr 17 - 09:41 AM

But it raises the profile of the genre and provides an opportunity to bring many people together to celebrate the amazing music being made across the UK - that to me is a good thing

I do find it sad though that the role of the folk club in supporting artists is now ignored in the awards

There is room for the awards just as there is room for clubs, singarounds, dance teams and other aspects of the music

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Apr 17 - 06:15 AM

Al .
Derek will be rememberd by many, he was an outstanding raconteur and performer he will be rembered for his perfomances.
Voting[edit]
"The nominees in most categories are chosen by a panel of 150 representatives from the British folk world, including broadcasters, journalists, record producers, festival organisers, venue bookers, record company directors, agents and promoters. The panelists can vary slightly from year to year, with new panelists being invited (or self-applying) each year. The final panel is selected by the Folk Awards committee, which includes staff from the BBC, the production company 7digital Creative, and representatives from outside those organisations.[4]

The 'Best Original Track' and 'Best Traditional Track' categories are chosen by smaller specialist panels of judges, and the BBC Radio 2 Young Folk Award - presented as part of the Folk Awards - is decided by a standalone contest.[4]

The 'Best Album' category is decided by a public vote, hosted on the BBC website."
That says it all, A COMPETITION DECIDED BY A GROUP OF PEOPLE WITH A VESTED INTEREST IN COMMERCIALISM [some of whom have a vested intrest in promoting their own performers] even the "Best Album" only reflects the subjective opinions of those who can be bothered to vote.
it is a commercial charade, and nothing more than a musical circus

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 06 Apr 17 - 08:46 AM

twould be nice if they'd consider a special posthumous one for Derek Brimstone, whom I believe, meant a lot to a lot of people on the folk scene.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Apr 17 - 08:14 AM

Let me say that Fay Hield is the Queen of folk!!!

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: Johnny J
Date: 06 Apr 17 - 06:38 AM

There seems to be a very strong Scottish contingent among the winners this year.

I'm especially pleased for Rachael Newton.

Over the years, there has always been complaints from the Scottish "panel" that their nominations, votes etc were always ignored. Not so this time, it seems, unless the procedure has been changed.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Apr 17 - 06:23 AM

If i had the misfortune to have been awarded an MBE, i would return it, i would also refuse one of these awards, i would refuse the cecil sharp awards, i dont agree with any of this carry on.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Apr 17 - 06:20 AM

"Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: GUEST,Joe G - PM
Date: 06 Apr 17 - 03:56 AM

I was gutted that Jim Moray didn't win anything as I consider that his new CD 'Upcetera' is one of the best releases this century - up there with Jon Boden's 'Songs From The Floodplain'

Congratulations to all winners"
I daresay your subjective opinion is as good as the judges, which just exposes the meaningless no sense of these awards, completely the antithesis of why I got involved in this music, it should not be about competitions that further peoples careers, or the whims of a few judges.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 06 Apr 17 - 05:36 AM

And Pete Coe - he is far too lively.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 06 Apr 17 - 05:33 AM

Jo Cox - did I miss a mention of her name?

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: GUEST,kenny
Date: 06 Apr 17 - 04:16 AM

"I wish them success, and may they go on to make lots of money, and all have hits in the top ten pop charts".

Hear, hear.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: GUEST,LynnH
Date: 06 Apr 17 - 04:13 AM

Isn't it about time that Pete Coe qualified for the lifetime award? Or is he too young?

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 06 Apr 17 - 03:56 AM

I was gutted that Jim Moray didn't win anything as I consider that his new CD 'Upcetera' is one of the best releases this century - up there with Jon Boden's 'Songs From The Floodplain'

Congratulations to all winners

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Apr 17 - 03:51 AM

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: Long Firm Freddie - PM
"Date: 06 Apr 17 - 03:05 AM

Winners:

Folk Singer of the Year: Kris Drever
Best Duo: Ross Ainslie & Ali Hutton
Best Group: The Furrow Collective
Best Album: Songs of Separation - Songs of Separation
Horizon Award: Daoirí Farrell
Musician of the Year: Rachel Newton
Young Folk Award: Josie Duncan & Pablo Lafuente
Best Original Song: If Wishes Were Horses - Kris Drever
Best Traditional Track: Van Diemen's Land - Daoirí Farrell
Lifetime Achievement Award: Al Stewart and Ry Cooder
Hall Of Fame inductee: Woody Guthrie"
with the exception of Woody[ who is no longer with us]
I wish them success, and may they go on to make lots of money, and all have hits in the top ten pop charts

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: Long Firm Freddie
Date: 06 Apr 17 - 03:05 AM

Winners:

Folk Singer of the Year: Kris Drever
Best Duo: Ross Ainslie & Ali Hutton
Best Group: The Furrow Collective
Best Album: Songs of Separation - Songs of Separation
Horizon Award: Daoirí Farrell
Musician of the Year: Rachel Newton
Young Folk Award: Josie Duncan & Pablo Lafuente
Best Original Song: If Wishes Were Horses - Kris Drever
Best Traditional Track: Van Diemen's Land - Daoirí Farrell
Lifetime Achievement Award: Al Stewart and Ry Cooder
Hall Of Fame inductee: Woody Guthrie

LFF

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 02 Apr 17 - 10:47 PM

i don't think we should revive this thread.
there's obviously a rift in opinion. a divergence.
absolutely nothing will sort it out.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: GUEST,GUEST
Date: 02 Apr 17 - 11:06 AM

The second post which mentions 'celebs you didn't know were folkies' raised a hollow laugh. As he/she said "not seen any of them at the local folk club". I can't watch this BBC programme because of this display of desperate need to be on camera. I had personal evidence of this years back when one comedian I booked and hosted regularly was scathing in his loathing for folk music, when the subject came up in conversation. Then, there he was at this awards event, presented as a 'folk fan' getting on the telly when his regular home now seems to be radio (News Quiz etc). Where's the evidence? Stephen Fry for instance seems to prefer to make music programmes about Wagner.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 02 Apr 17 - 07:09 AM

Link to another 2017 award at
Folking.com

thread.cfm?threadid=161807

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Feb 17 - 09:23 AM

MEAN WHILE,
Organisers of festivals and folk clubs such as Vic Smith[ over 50 years running a club and presnt involvement organising a festival] are providing venues for performers and helping them to make a living.
the radio 2 folk awards do a much smaller amount in comparison to all the organisers to provide musicians with a living.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 Feb 17 - 07:22 PM

well i would have said theres a pretty wide spread of opinions in the thread.

what most of us have in common is that we have goodwill towards folkclubs, and would like to see them doing better.

what the answer is i really don't know.

you see celtic bands go down a storm at festivals, but its uneconomic for them to play folk clubs.

the young singer songwriters start recording at seventeen or less. its not unusual to meet people who have made three or four albums without writing a memorable song. but then again...who thought Nick Drake's songs were memorable in his lifetime.

as someone said ...there are good songwriters like Gaz Brookfield who never play folk clubs. i can only think of Steve Hicks as a guitarist of jaw dropping ability who plays folk venues. since the rather synthetic imposition of a 'tradition' - we have lost a great trenche of talent to other places, venues and countries.

its a conundrum, but if it is ever to come right - that sort of argy bargy where we scream down each others opinions has no place.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 Feb 17 - 06:40 PM

ps
'I have been to some truly awful folk clubs run by people who think they know folk music and/or are good performers themselves.'

tell me about it! my wife won't go out to folk clubs with me any more!

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: GUEST,DEATH
Date: 21 Feb 17 - 06:39 PM

Not much wonder the UK folk clubs are dying these days, to judge by the opinions above - thankfully the music will survive despite them.
And at worst, the "Folk Awards" will do no harm whatsoever.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 Feb 17 - 06:34 PM

no Dave - nothing to do with me. i firmly believe nobody got to hear the best songwriters of my generation, which unfortunately i do not number myself among.

i know what i saw and what i see, at loads of festivals. as usual. you crawl up the arse of those you see as ....the prevalent view. carry on crawling...

maybe they'll let you buy them a drink.

i've spent most of my life organising folk clubs, helping out at festivals, etc. i very much doubt if you have tenth of my experience, as anybody who knows me personally could tell you.

Morris-et (how ironic!), I apologise if i have misunderstood what you are saying,,,sorry! expertise or insight into what?
i'm actually quite happy for the bbc folk lot to carry on as per. they don't do much for me. but as you can see from above there will always be someone to kiss the bums of the high and mighty.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Feb 17 - 06:09 PM

Morriss_ey, you have not or cannot answer my question, it really is a waste of time dealing with you.
hilaroius.."Why are folk clubs dying? Look to the old farts who run them - badly."
some of those organisers have been running them for many years, if they had been running them badly for 40/50 years how come they ran for so long? your comment doesnt make sense
your comment is simplistic and insulting, people who resort to insulting others demonstrate the weakness of their argument
"Insults are the arguments employed by those who are in the wrong"Rousseau

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: GUEST,Morris-ey
Date: 21 Feb 17 - 05:52 PM

Big Al
You answered a question I most certainly did not ask.

If you can show how organising a folk club, in the context of this thread, which is about award ceremonies and the value of award ceremonies, gives anyone insight or expertise then I would love to hear it.

I have been to some truly awful folk clubs run by people who think they know folk music and/or are good performers themselves.

Why are folk clubs dying? Look to the old farts who run them - badly.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Feb 17 - 04:23 PM

And the folk establishment is SO bloody smarmy, middle class and offensive.. at major festivals you see them smarming over some young puppy, whose parent played the third yoyo on the 60's folkscene. Totally forgiving their lack of talent, stage presence, instrumental ability, preparedness to perform....and generally pissing away the creative opportunity that should have gone to someone far more dedicated.

If you haven't noticed this. You're blind.


I can't even remember who said that now but it smacks of someone who has been disregarded by those that he or she sees as the 'folk establishment'. It denigrates the thousands of people who put their heart and soul into running folk clubs and festivals, for no reward only get this type of comment in return. Whoever you are, you ought to be ashamed of yourself. Or. to put it more succinctly, fuck off and look to why your so called 'talents' have not got you more air tome at festivals and folk clubs.

DtG

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 Feb 17 - 02:42 PM

well the thing is Morris-ey, if you haven't organised a folk event....you can sort of indulge your opinions. however if you have to think in terms of who is capable of doing what - its a bit of a cold splash of reality.

you really do have to think of who is capable and experienced at dealing with your available venues. who will put bums on seats. who can be trusted with a family audience. who needs a PA system. who will insist on you supplying them with facilities you haven't got. and a hundred other things that can give you a more critical view of an artist than someone who happens to have their cd.

well....you did ask.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: GUEST,Morris-ey
Date: 21 Feb 17 - 02:31 PM

Dick, if there is point to be missed you will miss it.

It really is waste of time dealing with you.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Feb 17 - 01:21 PM

"99% of people who enjoy folk have no experience of organising folk event"
What statistics do you have to back up your statement?
I reckon that there are more people than you think who enjoy folk music who have organised a folk event, but what would I know I have only been going to clubs and festivals since 1967? and of course during that period, 50 years, I have met a lot of organisers, one thing i have noticed is that a significant number of people who are interested in folk music, have also organised folk events. VicSmith has been involved even longer than me, he too is involved in running a festival and ran a folk club for over 40 years possibly longer, it might be nearer 50.one phenomenon I have noticed is that this genre of music attracts a lot of people who get active in promoting or organising.
The people who organise these awards, one of them, Robin Garside was a WELL KNOWN performer.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: GUEST,Morris-ey
Date: 21 Feb 17 - 11:21 AM

Vic

99% of people who enjoy folk have no experience of organising folk events. Why should that make the opinions of those that do any more valid?

I have never composed a symphony, does that mean I can have no valid opinion as to which symphonies I prefer to listen to?

This is nothing to do with organising folk events - some here have an antipathy to "awards" and programmes about awards. No one is asking them to organise such an event.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: Vic Smith
Date: 21 Feb 17 - 10:06 AM

It is good that so many people have strong opinions on the way the folk scene has developed,how it has changed and what it needs and have taken the effort to post their ideas here.
It made me wonder if any of those taking part here make efforts to see things happen in the way they would like by organising events themselves. I know that Dick organises a festival in his part of south-east Ireland and I know from long personal experience how much effort is involved in that. I also know that Mike (Will Fly) runs sessions and comperes a folk club.
Anyone else?
It's just that I would take more notice of the posts from those who have the hands on experience of being organisers to make things happen in the way that they would approve of.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Feb 17 - 06:43 AM

I haven't heard of any of these people, how strange.

Aside from Jim Moray that is, but that bloke lost me when he put electronic drums in "Lord Franklin"

Electronic house music sounding bass drum... Why Jim... Why oh why would you do that?

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: GUEST,Pencil of Death
Date: 21 Feb 17 - 04:22 AM

Got to hand it to you, Al. In all my years of lurking around Mudcat, that's the best post I've ever read from you.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Feb 17 - 11:48 PM

hmmmmm......hard to explain what was so potent about the early folk revival.

i will try - not in unfriendly way. nor in a misty eyed way, but i will try to be analytical, which isn't my style, but it perhaps would explain my fascination with the music, and i think will explain why it worked then, and frankly why the audiences for all these admittedly great instrumentalists are missing.

first of all. it was intelligent music, and it involved rejection of our parents values - which maybe sounds weird for traditional music. but you left your parents at home watching dixon of dock green.

secondly and most important - most people are scaredy cats/ most of us   - if you're bright enough to love this music - get the o levels, go to college, follow a safe career trajectory that ones parents approve of.

think of john lennon going to hamburg against the strictures of aunt mimi. the people who became folksingers weren't like the rest of us. they were extraordinary people with attitude and charisma to burn. there was this air about them of a the gunfighter come to town - and if they couldn't fulfil this, the audience would pick it up in a heartbeat.

i can't explain how strange and other worldly a group like the watersons sounded with their tales of ancient magic - looking like a band of wandering gypsies. how bohemian Jansch seemed with his inexplicable guitar skill and the air of smokey soho jazz cellars seemed to cling to him.

i suppose what i am saying , that even when they were very young - these people seemed to have an intriguing back story, they were different to most of us. they were exotics.

i dunno how they did it, but they did.

todays singers remind me a bit of when the comic lenny bruce was invited for an evening to the home of the jazz critic Nat Hentoff. lenny said, nat and his wife are nice people - but they're old. they keep asking you if you've had enough to eat.

they make me feel like nat hentoff.

Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Feb 17 - 08:24 PM

lifeless music is opinion, Iam sure you hear plenty of good music, so do I SOME ARE YOUNG PEOPLE SOME ARE OLD, FOR EXAMPLE ONE 86 YEAR OLD ACCORDIONIST AND ONE 26 YEAR OLD.
there is good folk music being played by people of all ages some of it in folk clubs some of it elsewhere