Folklore: Old singers don't die, but they should

Subject: Folklore: Old singers don't die, but they should
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Feb 17 - 03:11 AM

I have just read that David Cassidy has admitted he has dementia, worse still, he is still touring and admitted he has drug and alcohol addictions and constantly forgets the lyrics to his songs.

He has been charged three times with driving whilst drunk, his wife left him recently and last month he filed for bankruptcy.

Would you want to attend one of his concerts ? are these people attempting to recreate their youth and what the hell is he thinking of, dancing around a stage with a guitar which isn't plugged in and lights reflecting off his baldy head.

Pathetic really.

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/celebrity/david-cassidy-reveals-battling-dementia-213733131.html

Subject: RE: Folklore: Old singers don't die, but they should
From: Stanron
Date: 21 Feb 17 - 03:45 AM

We all die, guest. Sooner or later you will.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Old singers don't die, but they should
From: Will Fly
Date: 21 Feb 17 - 05:04 AM

And when the poor chap finally decides to retire and take life more steadily, at least he'll be able to look back and reflect on the good things he achieved and the public that loved him.

Which, for all we know, is more than you will, GUEST. And you don't know how to make a simple clicky...

Posts, particularly anonymous ones, like yours do no-one a service.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Old singers don't die, but they should
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 21 Feb 17 - 05:51 AM

If I was a lifelong fan then YES I might well go to see him.
I'd prefer him to say truthfully what his problem is. It's a shame he's been hiding it.


~~~~~~~~~~~~
 GUEST ... You saw in the article all the news about his indiscretions, yes pretty bad form.

I prefer to read positive threads.
Others might have seen
 "I was in denial, but a part of me always knew this was coming."

Of his mother's struggles, Cassidy recalls: "In the end, the only way I knew she recognized me is with one single tear that would drop from her eye every time I walked into the room. … I feared I would end up that way."

Now that he's come to terms with his condition, Cassidy has made the decision to stop touring as a musician to concentrate on his health and happiness. "I want to focus on what I am, who I am and how I've been without any distractions," he says. "I want to love. I want to enjoy life."
Looking at his website he's only got a few shows left to do this year.

GUEST ... you forgot or failed to put the < at the start of your link
https://uk.yahoo.com/news/celebrity/david-cassidy-reveals-battling-dementia-213733131.html

GUEST ... You forgot to check your cookie was active, or chose to post anonymously.

I'll try not to hold these misdemeanors against you.
Sadly lots of us do make mistakes.
And we hide.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Old singers don't die, but they should
From: Johnny J
Date: 21 Feb 17 - 06:43 AM

I've been to many concerts where the performer(s) have been past their best or had other issues. That's my choice and I can take such things into account. If you only go to a show expecting to turn the clock back 40 years, that surely shows a lack of imagination and understanding somewhere.

There is an argument that some artists might be better off retiring but that's up to them but audiences should also be able to tailor their expectations too.

However, the headline here from "Guest" is particularly harsh and insensitive. It says more about the poster than anything else.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Old singers don't die, but they should
From: Mo the caller
Date: 21 Feb 17 - 08:59 AM

The thread does highlight a problem though.
And it's not just singers.
As you get older there are things you've always done that you need or want to carry on doing. Maybe you don't do them as well as you have done. But don't notice the extent.
The most scary is driving. My latest car has all the automatic bits (even dips the headlights for me) so I have to do less multitasking. Might extend my driving ability for a few years. SIL says by the time I buy another it will drive itself.

Same with callers - I've seen too many who were once good. And again, will anyone tell me when it's time to stop. Trouble is, in many clubs, all the callers are the same age. I often wonder how good a caller I would have been if I'd got the steep learning curve bit done before starting the over the top bit.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Old singers don't die, but they should
From: Mr Red
Date: 21 Feb 17 - 11:43 AM

FWIW there is a condition called "Alcohol Dementia" allied to the old expression "DTs".

Subject: RE: Folklore: Old singers don't die, but they should
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Feb 17 - 11:49 AM

I saw Gordon Lightfoot a few years ago, I enjoyed the performance, not as much as I did when I saw him in 1973 and 1975 though.

David Cassidy was on CNN recently after the media highlighted his most recent arrest for serial drunk driving and his domestic and financial issues and failures beating addictions, but the fact the dementia hasn't been diagnosed by anyone other than himself is more the issue.

Indeed FreddyHeadey, the old mom story with the sparkly tear in eye line works wonders on some.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Old singers don't die, but they should
From: keberoxu
Date: 21 Feb 17 - 12:59 PM

And what's with the prefix of Folklore anyway?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Old singers don't die, but they should
From: leeneia
Date: 21 Feb 17 - 04:29 PM

What you need to do, Guest, is attend one of Cassidy's concerts or read a few reviews. Is he performing music? Does he get it across? That's all that matters.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Old singers don't die, but they should
From: GUEST,Desi C
Date: 22 Feb 17 - 06:00 AM

He's a pop singer, what do you expect!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Old singers don't die, but they should
From: GUEST,Some bloke
Date: 22 Feb 17 - 12:32 PM

I knew lots of lasses when I was a teenager who may have gone to the disco with me but they were thinking of the Cassidy poster on their wall.

He is part of nostalgia for many people and yes, if they worshipped him as a kid, they would want to see him now.

I have seen Dylan many times but let's face it, since the '70s the actual stage show hasn't been anything to write home about. Hasn't stopped me going though. I'll not say who because it wouldn't be fair but next week I am seeing a well respected folk singer in his late '70s. His voice is creaky now, his recollection of lyrics is hit or miss and I wouldn't expect anyone who wasn't influenced by him to understand why I am paying for him but nipping to the bar when a local mate who can't sing for toffee does a floor spot at our local folk club.

Sad that Cassidy has dementia. Sad that early fame is hard to master and alternative realities not only beckon but are easy to acquire, encouraged even.

But rather pathetic to read the OP and the snide comment above by Desi C. What's a fucking Pop singer?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Old singers don't die, but they should
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Feb 17 - 12:38 PM

What does that mean; "He's a pop singer, what do you expect ?" An odd comment.I agree, Some Bloke, a snarky remark indeed.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Old singers don't die, but they should
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 23 Feb 17 - 05:10 AM

It's a tricky one, when to hang up the guitar, put away the caller's mike, announce your retirement, etc. Like Johnny J, I have seen artists in the early stages of dementia continuing to perform, when some in the audience who didn't recognise what was going on being horribly disparaging - "he's past the sell-by date". One person I remember who previously never forgot a word of his songs, having later to have his folder of lyrics in front of him, but still getting lost, doing the same verse twice, omitting others. That was the last time I saw him perform live, and Alzheimer's was later confirmed. Whether he decided for himself that it was time to give up performing, or whether kind friends gently suggested he might, I don't know.
And if people do go on giving substandard performances, they will presumably not get re-booked. Alzheimer's and other forms of dementia are unpleasant diseases: however acquired, whether genetically, through vascular disease or even precipitated by abuse if alcohol and drugs, we should be a bit more sympathetic than the OP.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Old singers don't die, but they should
From: Mo the caller
Date: 23 Feb 17 - 05:43 AM

Quite a tricky problem too for those running clubs. Obviously venues that employ well known singers will use commercial reasoning. But for clubs where no money is involved but we become a group of friends, it is hard for the person who organises the callers rota (say)to drop someone who is becoming slightly forgetful. They probably have given a lot to the club in the past and need the club to support them now. But for the good of the club and its present members they need to stop.
A friend recently stopped singing with a BBC choir - they re-audition every year and he knew his voice wasn't as strong as it had been so he dropped out.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Old singers don't die, but they should
From: JHW
Date: 23 Feb 17 - 06:14 AM

Was David Cassidy reading his words from a sheet on a music stand which takes forever to erect with led lights etc.?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Old singers don't die, but they should
From: GUEST,kenny
Date: 23 Feb 17 - 01:30 PM

I think the word you were looking for was "retire", not die. Or at least, I hope so.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Old singers don't die, but they should
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Feb 17 - 02:03 PM

I suppose the same could be said for Pete Seeger. He barely had any voice left in the last decade of his life. But he still had lots of heart, and people loved to see him even if he wasn't able to sing very well any more.
Audiences and performers are the best judges of this. If audiences stop attending, performers will stop performing.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: Folklore: Old singers don't die, but they should
From: GUEST,kenny
Date: 23 Feb 17 - 03:46 PM

Audiences, yes, Joe, but maybe not always performers. Sometimes best to quit while you're ahead. I can think of several specific instances, but I had better I leave it at that.
Certainly, your example of Pete Seeger was a much loved exceptional performer, who built up a huge following over his whole life, but audiences can be pretty hard to please these days.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Old singers don't die, but they should
From: Jack Campin
Date: 23 Feb 17 - 06:50 PM

I knew lots of lasses when I was a teenager who may have gone to the disco with me but they were thinking of the Cassidy poster on their wall.

Losing It to David Cassidy

That hot evening, all through our clumsy fuck,
David smiled down from the wall. His ironed hair,
American teeth. Eyes on me, his best girl.

And his fingers didn't smell of smoke, he didn't
nudge me onto my back, like you did, grunting
as he unzipped my jeans, complaining

you're so bony, and demanding Now you do something -
hold it like this. David took my virginity
in a room scented with white roses, having smoothed

the sheets himself, slotted "How Can I Be Sure?"
into the tape machine. And when we were done
he didn't roll off, zip up and slouch downstairs

to watch the end of Match of the Day with my brother,
oh no, not David. He washed me, patted me dry
with fat blue towels, his eyes brim-full of tears.

- Catherine Smith

(from The Poetry of Sex, ed. Sophie Hannah, Penguin 2015)

Subject: RE: Folklore: Old singers don't die, but they should
From: Iains
Date: 24 Feb 17 - 06:29 AM

I would say that some questions just do not lend themselves to easy answers. Who has the right to tell a performer to stop performing.
For as long as he gathers an audience, good luck to the man.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Old singers don't die, but they should
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 24 Feb 17 - 06:53 AM

if you think about Ronald Regan and Donald Trump - with some jobs, dementia is a sort of qualification.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Old singers still performing
From: Felipa
Date: 24 Feb 17 - 09:50 AM

I saw Pete Seeger a few times when he was around 90-91. He could still play the banjo quite well (I was impressed that his fingers were still nimble); he still had presence; he knew the words to the songs he sang (even though he'd been saying for some years that he had memory problems/and maybe he would not have been able to do songs by request). I spoke with Pete on one occasion but he was very deaf; still it was interesting to listen to his stories. The only thing really lacking in performance was that his once strong voice was very weak. Two of the times I saw him, Pete only sang two or three songs. The other time, he was doing a real show, an outdoor concert in Central Park NYC with family and friends, so he didnt have to carry the show by himself.

Yes, a lot of the appeal was Pete's reputation; he was playing on his laurels. But he also still had a lot to give, and I am grateful to Pete for not having gone into total retirement in his old age.

Jack Campin, that's an impressive poem and absolutely responds to a previous comment!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Old singers don't die, but they should
From: meself
Date: 24 Feb 17 - 10:14 AM

Sometimes even aged performers who were once rich and famous need that stuff - darn, what's it called, now? - oh, yeah: money.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Old singers don't die, but they should
From: Gallus Moll
Date: 24 Feb 17 - 10:47 AM

I prefer sessions to concerts, the best ones have been spontaneous----and some of the most memorable ones have been when some old singer, perhaps a Traveller, shares a song they learned by ear as past of the carrying stream of tradition; for me this is like a gold nugget straight from the earth -- maybe learned round a campfire, or at a grandmothers knee. History, reality -- a gift, a treasure.
It is not the quality of the person's singing but the sense of awe that this song has been handed down, shared over years - and you will continue the process.
I do not judge a singer by how 'good' the performance is - if they are the only person left who knows and sings that song -- they have a duty to keep it alive, pass it on!
And yes I do sometimes pay to attend concerts - and I like the performers am getting older, so I accept that the aging process has affected them too and I enjoy the memories and appreciate the fact that they - and I - are still here and able to enjoy the music!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Old singers don't die, but they should
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 24 Feb 17 - 11:46 PM

"Men do not quit playing because they grow old; they grow old because they quit playing." - Oliver Wendell Holmes

"Nobody retires; they just don't want you anymore." - George Burns