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Peggy Seeger biography 2017

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The Sandman 18 Feb 18 - 05:07 AM
The Sandman 18 Feb 18 - 03:57 AM
The Sandman 18 Feb 18 - 03:43 AM
GUEST,Hootenanny 15 Jan 18 - 09:57 AM
Vic Smith 15 Jan 18 - 09:51 AM
Jim Carroll 15 Jan 18 - 09:31 AM
Vic Smith 15 Jan 18 - 08:30 AM
Jim Carroll 15 Jan 18 - 08:09 AM
GUEST,Hootenanny 15 Jan 18 - 07:52 AM
Vic Smith 15 Jan 18 - 07:35 AM
Jim Carroll 15 Jan 18 - 03:29 AM
GUEST,Hootenanny 12 Jan 18 - 10:25 AM
The Sandman 10 Jan 18 - 03:10 PM
GUEST,Hootenanny 09 Jan 18 - 12:07 PM
Jim Carroll 09 Jan 18 - 08:54 AM
GUEST,Hootenanny 09 Jan 18 - 06:48 AM
Jim Carroll 08 Jan 18 - 01:09 PM
Jim Carroll 08 Jan 18 - 12:54 PM
GUEST,bob a.f. 08 Jan 18 - 12:18 PM
GUEST,Hootenanny 08 Jan 18 - 12:14 PM
The Sandman 07 Jan 18 - 04:15 PM
The Sandman 07 Jan 18 - 04:09 PM
GUEST,keberoxu 07 Jan 18 - 01:32 PM
Jim Carroll 07 Jan 18 - 01:00 PM
Jim Carroll 07 Jan 18 - 12:20 PM
Vic Smith 07 Jan 18 - 12:12 PM
StephenH 02 Jan 18 - 04:18 PM
GUEST,Hootenanny 02 Jan 18 - 04:07 PM
Jeri 02 Jan 18 - 04:04 PM
The Sandman 02 Jan 18 - 03:39 PM
Jim Carroll 02 Jan 18 - 12:56 PM
gillymor 02 Jan 18 - 12:18 PM
GUEST 02 Jan 18 - 12:16 PM
GUEST,akenaton 02 Jan 18 - 12:15 PM
The Sandman 02 Jan 18 - 11:53 AM
Jim Carroll 02 Jan 18 - 11:47 AM
gillymor 02 Jan 18 - 10:11 AM
GUEST,akeaton 02 Jan 18 - 07:53 AM
The Sandman 02 Jan 18 - 07:30 AM
Jim Carroll 02 Jan 18 - 07:10 AM
Vic Smith 02 Jan 18 - 06:43 AM
Vic Smith 02 Jan 18 - 06:40 AM
Vic Smith 02 Jan 18 - 06:38 AM
Jim Carroll 02 Jan 18 - 06:35 AM
GUEST,akenaton 02 Jan 18 - 06:11 AM
GUEST 02 Jan 18 - 06:08 AM
GUEST 02 Jan 18 - 05:41 AM
The Sandman 01 Jan 18 - 05:14 PM
GUEST,akenaton 01 Jan 18 - 03:52 PM
The Sandman 01 Jan 18 - 01:10 PM
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Subject: RE: Peggy Seeger biography 2017
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Feb 18 - 05:07 AM

here is primrose polkahttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boqwtu3xPzU

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Subject: RE: Peggy Seeger biography 2017
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Feb 18 - 03:57 AM

typo above Alf said you cannot play both together, on thge EC this is very wrong. YES IT IS DIFFICULT BUT I HAVE DONE IT, the old players like Gordon Cutty did IT. I learned to do this too, other examples i recorded were Woodland Flowers primrose polka, but gordon cutty was a better player than me and had numerous examples of it not just a few


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Subject: RE: Peggy Seeger biography 2017
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Feb 18 - 03:43 AM

At one piont in the book she says Alf said you can playt chords but not melody.
this is wrong, Iwqorked out a style based on the playing of Gordon Cutty, where you do play acompaniment and melody on the English Concertina, you play the chords off the beat, on my latest recordinmg there is aversion of Washington Post which sounds like a duet concertina, it is difficult but it can be done , my version of ball of yarn is another examplehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8H9wpMBVtw


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Subject: RE: Peggy Seeger biography 2017
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 15 Jan 18 - 09:57 AM

Jim

Why can you not reproduce the words of mine which you claim to be "dishonest, unfair, crass"?

Are never able to give a short simple answer to a short simple question?


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Subject: RE: Peggy Seeger biography 2017
From: Vic Smith
Date: 15 Jan 18 - 09:51 AM

Score points? I was merely trying to work things out to help me, and possibly others, to understand your post.

Why would I want to 'score points' against the Mudcat regular whose posts are always the most thoughtful and considerate, whose consideration of the views and opinions of others are always uppermost in what he writes, who is always ready to concede the posts of others when they carefully made and supported with facts; the Mudcat regular who always enchews insulting those he disagrees with, who never repeats himself or labours a point, is never contradictory, who carefully considers all the implications of what he has written on the feelings of others.... and would never say that he is leaving a post (exaunt or exeunt) only to return to if five hours later?


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Subject: RE: Peggy Seeger biography 2017
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Jan 18 - 09:31 AM

Probably used the wrong word Vic - not important to bother with unless someone wants to score points
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Peggy Seeger biography 2017
From: Vic Smith
Date: 15 Jan 18 - 08:30 AM

Exaunt
Jim Carroll

Ah! I think that I may have worked it out! You may have meant to type Exeunt - the instruction that film and television scriptwriters and playwrites use when their character leaves the set or stage..... but if that is the case why have you posted again at 15 Jan 18 - 08:09 AM?
Confusing.


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Subject: RE: Peggy Seeger biography 2017
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Jan 18 - 08:09 AM

I've just put up what I regard as crass
If you can't bother reading it I can't e bothered putting it up again
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Peggy Seeger biography 2017
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 15 Jan 18 - 07:52 AM

Jim,

Simple question:

Which statement of mine was dishonest and unfair ? or crass?


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Subject: RE: Peggy Seeger biography 2017
From: Vic Smith
Date: 15 Jan 18 - 07:35 AM

Exaunt? What has someone who used to be a sister of your father or mother to do with this thread?


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Subject: RE: Peggy Seeger biography 2017
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Jan 18 - 03:29 AM

Hoot
Missed this because I decided I can't be arsed with getting involved in a slanging match
I find your statement about an argument I am involved in (and you, largely are not) both partisan (without your having the balls to take part it) both dishonest and unfair - maybe I used the wrong words - perhaps I should just have said "crass"
Exaunt
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Peggy Seeger biography 2017
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 12 Jan 18 - 10:25 AM

Jim,

Three days and I am still awaiting evidence of my dishonesty. Or alternatively an apology.


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Subject: RE: Peggy Seeger biography 2017
From: The Sandman
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 03:10 PM

I am reading this and also reading journeyman , which i find a more interesting read, i have admiration for peggy as a performer, but i dont think this biography does her justice in fact it has in my opinion a negative tone and a critical carping flavour


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Subject: RE: Peggy Seeger biography 2017
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 09 Jan 18 - 12:07 PM

Jim I can assure you that I do not hate anyone even the person to whom you are obviously referring. He may be your idol but I found him something of a phoney but that is purely an opinion.

You also accuse me of being dishonest. I trust that you can quote an instance.


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Subject: RE: Peggy Seeger biography 2017
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Jan 18 - 08:54 AM

"knew someone that was, implying that therefore you were qualified."
No Hoot
I knew several people who were there who I trust - that doesn't make me an expert
I bother because I have become extremely tired of not being able to discuss what I believe to be the valuable lessons to be learned from the revival because of misinformation, backbiting and almost necrophobic hatred of one of its leading participants
I have insulted nobody regarding the origins of songs - I have on occasion reacted to personal insults aimed at me that you have obviously chosen to ignore
I ragard behaviour like yours as typical of the backbiting that has naused up any chance at discussing the revival - yours dishonest and extremely partisan accusation is a prime example of such behavior
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Peggy Seeger biography 2017
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 09 Jan 18 - 06:48 AM

Jim,

You appear to have had a change of mind. On the odd occasion in the past when I have posted about the Ballads and Blues club you have come back indicating that although you weren't there you knew someone that was, implying that therefore you were qualified.

It doesn't bother me, I am just trying to point out an error.

If something that happened over sixty years ago doesn't bother you why the f**k do you waffle on and on and on tying yourself in knots and getting your bowels in an uproar and insulting so many people about the origins of a song.


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Subject: RE: Peggy Seeger biography 2017
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Jan 18 - 01:09 PM

Sorry Bob
I've jut realised I was reading Peggy's piece arse-uppards - all of the episodes are there
Thanks again
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Peggy Seeger biography 2017
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Jan 18 - 12:54 PM

""1960: Ballads and Blues Club is renamed the Singers Club.""
We've discussed this before Hoot - that was the general claim by many who were around at the time - I wasn't there so I'm not qualified to jusge
Why on earth should I be annoyed - something that happened over sixty years ago is really not something that bothers me one way or another, remembered or misremembered, though it obviously bothers you   
"text of a 1996 interview of Peggy Seeger"
THanks for the link Bob
It says at the top of the article that it is the 'conclusion'
I wonder if there might be more of it available
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Peggy Seeger biography 2017
From: GUEST,bob a.f.
Date: 08 Jan 18 - 12:18 PM

Coincidentally, text of a 1996 interview of Peggy Seeger, that might tie-in, somewhat, to this biography, was recently posted in three parts on the Protest Folk Magazine blog:

http://protestfolkmagazine.blogspot.com/


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Subject: RE: Peggy Seeger biography 2017
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 08 Jan 18 - 12:14 PM

Re the link given by Jim above at 1.00pm on the 7th which gives goes to a run down on Ewan's history. At risk of upsetting Jim again can I point out an error;

"1960: Ballads and Blues Club is renamed the Singers Club."

The Ballads and Blues Club ran until May 1965. It was not renamed. Ewan and Peggy left the Ballads and Blues to form the Singers Club and I took over the Ballads and Blues club bookings from September 1961 when we re-opened after the Summer break at the old Partisan Coffee Bar premises in Carlisle Street until it's close at The King of Corsica pub.

Just trying to correct another piece of misinformation.


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Subject: RE: Peggy Seeger biography 2017
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Jan 18 - 04:15 PM

JIM, more corrct to say he was influenced by libba , you cannot incoporate that style, unless you play the guitar upside down , which means playing the bass strings upward with fingers, peggy seeger does not do that


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Subject: RE: Peggy Seeger biography 2017
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Jan 18 - 04:09 PM

it was still a misquote because it had nothing to do with the first time,she apprantly fell in love with him after she had been singing the house carpenter , he came over and introduced himself, and gave her a complimentary ticket for the threepenny opera, after that he offered to drive her home and it seems it was AFTER that. the suggestion is that she fell in love with him in his stage gear, if you read her words that is not so, really shoddy journalism


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Subject: RE: Peggy Seeger biography 2017
From: GUEST,keberoxu
Date: 07 Jan 18 - 01:32 PM

That onstage-role context was indeed missing
when the book critic printed the quote in the newspaper,
and yes, it makes ALL the difference --

much obliged, many thanks.


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Subject: RE: Peggy Seeger biography 2017
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Jan 18 - 01:00 PM

Great stuff Vic
For the reference, click onto the photo next to 1954-53 HERE
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Peggy Seeger biography 2017
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Jan 18 - 12:20 PM

"I believe Peggy was already playing guitar before she was aware of Elizabeth's playing."
She was, but she incorporated Libba's style of playing into what she was already doing
"However as Jim knows everything I am sure he will correct me."
There really isn't any need for this Hoot - it really doesn't say much for either the subject or for youi
Stop fucking pu a reasonably friendly discussion - they rarely happen when MacColl is mentioned
A Guid New Year to you too
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Peggy Seeger biography 2017
From: Vic Smith
Date: 07 Jan 18 - 12:12 PM

This appeared on page 40 of yesterday's "The Guardian":-

Corrections and clarifications


*
A review of Peggy Seeger's memoir quotes her description of her early impressions of Ewan MacColl and how they fell in love, saying he had a "hairy, fat, naked belly poking out, and was clad in ill-fitting trousers, suspenders, no shirt, a ragged jacket and a filthy lid of stovepipe hat aslant like a garbage can". The context we omitted was that MacColl was appearing in a production of The Threepenny Opera (First Time Ever, 30 December, page 5, Review).


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Subject: RE: Peggy Seeger biography 2017
From: StephenH
Date: 02 Jan 18 - 04:18 PM

Just on the subject of the book, per se, I wanted to add my tuppence-worth. I'm finding it a hugely enjoyable read (I'm about half-way through.) As Peggy herself says, there is no attempt to be chronological - from the foreword: "My book roams freely around time,emotions, opinions, prejudices and a lot of whatever." She also recommends reading Jean Freedman's bio alongside the memoir.
By turns the book reflects self-criticism, egotism, compassion, love and
a whole host of other qualities - just like a real person!
I highly recommend it.
a propos the discussion immediately preceding: Here is a partial quote from p192, where Peggy is discussing the early days of skiffle when players would turn their attentions to ballads such as "The Twa Magicians":
Accompanied, "The Twa Magicians" has no pulse anymore, just rhythm. Ill-considered accompaniments wreaked havoc. An instrumentalist would turn a 5/4 song into a 4/4 to fit with the duple metres preferred by the five-string banjo. Songs would speed up, passengers on a runaway train rocketing along on metrically precise rails. I blush with shame when I hear some of my early backings for Ewan's songs and the speed at which I sang some of my own. I use recordings of them for cannon fodder when I teach accompaniment."
Sounds like a pretty self-aware accompanist.


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Subject: RE: Peggy Seeger biography 2017
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 02 Jan 18 - 04:07 PM

Peggy took lessons from Elizabeth (Libba) Cotten?

I believe Peggy was already playing guitar before she was aware of Elizabeth's playing. Her father played guitar as did her brother and at least one half brother. If she took lessons from Elizabeth she would have to translate the left handed upside down finger picking pattern and therefore chord shapes completely to suit the right hand style that she was teaching us in 1959.

However as Jim knows everything I am sure he will correct me.

I was interested in the style of banjo playing used to accompany MacColl on Jim's sample, it almost made me believe I was listening to a genuine Scottish field recording and not a performance by and Englishman and an American woman.

A Guid New Year to all


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Subject: RE: Peggy Seeger biography 2017
From: Jeri
Date: 02 Jan 18 - 04:04 PM

One day people will not get manipulated to post off-topic stuff by trolls.

...well, it could happen.

If people want to argue with akenaton about Peggy's banjo playing skills, somebody start a thread about it and not post in this thread about her biography. Please?


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Subject: RE: Peggy Seeger biography 2017
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Jan 18 - 03:39 PM

well i would not say PEGGY showed bad bnjo technique, ake neaton may not like Ewans scottish accent or the style of banjo accompaniment, but that is a question of taste is not an illustration of bad technique, bad technique is not about style. I did not particularly like the track, but there was no evidence of bad technique from anyone, Ewan was in tune his breathing and vocal control was good so was peggys banjo technique.
the only minor criticism and this may be because i am not that familiar with this particular dialect and variety of scottish accent, was occasional lack of clear comprehensible diction, but that has nothing to with peggys banjo technique.


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Subject: RE: Peggy Seeger biography 2017
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Jan 18 - 12:56 PM

"Starts poorly, but after a wee while it gets worse!"
I assume that's Ake and he prefered not to put his name to it on the grounds that it might incriminate him!!
I really would love to hear what you consider 'good'
Peggy is acknowledged as one of the finest instrumentalists on the folk scene - on both sides of The Pond
I chose that recording deliberately because of its age - she was great fifty years ago and she got progressively better
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Peggy Seeger biography 2017
From: gillymor
Date: 02 Jan 18 - 12:18 PM

I was able open your link, Jim, I suppose mine was area-restricted. Point being though, Peggy Seeger can play the snot out of the 5 string.


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Subject: RE: Peggy Seeger biography 2017
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Jan 18 - 12:16 PM

Starts poorly, but after a wee while it gets worse!


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Subject: RE: Peggy Seeger biography 2017
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 02 Jan 18 - 12:15 PM

Ahhhhgh!!!


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Subject: RE: Peggy Seeger biography 2017
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Jan 18 - 11:53 AM

i hear no evidence of bad technique in jim carrolls example, it is ok to say you do not like something that is a matter of taste but to say a player has bad technique,then examples should be provided


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Subject: RE: Peggy Seeger biography 2017
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Jan 18 - 11:47 AM

"Yep, she's a real hack." (didn't work Gilly)
TRY THIS From half a century ago
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Peggy Seeger biography 2017
From: gillymor
Date: 02 Jan 18 - 10:11 AM

Peggy performing Dock Bogg's Country Blues live.
Yep, she's a real hack.


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Subject: RE: Peggy Seeger biography 2017
From: GUEST,akeaton
Date: 02 Jan 18 - 07:53 AM

I would say that some of your comments regarding me, Jack, are not only inaccurate, but something much more dangerous.
It is my opinion that Peggy Seeger is not a very good banjo player.
That is simply my opinion and others are welcome to put forward their views.


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Subject: RE: Peggy Seeger biography 2017
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Jan 18 - 07:30 AM

anyway to say peggy seeger has bad banjo teChnique is IMO INACCURATE


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Subject: RE: Peggy Seeger biography 2017
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Jan 18 - 07:10 AM

THere seems to be a confusion between 'tempo' and 'pulse' here - two different things
Most of MacColl's songs are in poetic rhythm - they are seldom blank verse.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Peggy Seeger biography 2017
From: Vic Smith
Date: 02 Jan 18 - 06:43 AM

.... if you would like one example, just think of his magnificent 1968 composition, The Father's Song.


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Subject: RE: Peggy Seeger biography 2017
From: Vic Smith
Date: 02 Jan 18 - 06:40 AM

MacColl's songs were all in strict tempo
Not to my ears, they weren't.


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Subject: RE: Peggy Seeger biography 2017
From: Vic Smith
Date: 02 Jan 18 - 06:38 AM

02 Jan 18 - 05:41 AM was me.


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Subject: RE: Peggy Seeger biography 2017
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Jan 18 - 06:35 AM

"I don't know where Peggy Seeger learned to play the banjo. "
She never gives a single mentor, but as a youngster the house was constantly full of visiting traditional musicians
If you listen to her playing you will find a host of styles lifted from various sources.
The life in help, Libby Cotton save her lessons on the guitar
There is a banjo instructor by her published in the 1960s
If anybody is interested, we have a long lecture on accompaniment she gave in London in 1969
PM me if you are
"was not as highly valued amongst traditional players of the banjo"
WHAT!!!!!
It was basically dance music - time was its essential feature
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Peggy Seeger biography 2017
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 02 Jan 18 - 06:11 AM

Sorry that was Ake.


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Subject: RE: Peggy Seeger biography 2017
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Jan 18 - 06:08 AM

That's interesting Guest...I had thought about it, but if it was intentional, it was a "bad career move" the accompaniment usually detracted from the overall performance, MacColl's songs were all in strict tempo and like Burns he relied on the power of the lyrics.
Peggy's accompaniment was often a distraction.


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Subject: RE: Peggy Seeger biography 2017
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Jan 18 - 05:41 AM

It could be that the ability to "keep time" was not as highly valued amongst traditional players of the banjo as it is amongst the more metronomic modern players. I can think of a number of 'old timer' banjo men who played in what was called 'ragged' time. I don't know enough about Peggy's playing to comment on this, but it could be that her varied timing is intentional. Certainly, Tom Paley tried to emulate older players when he was playing what he called 'crooked' tunes.


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Subject: RE: Peggy Seeger biography 2017
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 Jan 18 - 05:14 PM

bollocks she can keep perfect time, give examples of where she cannot keep time


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Subject: RE: Peggy Seeger biography 2017
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 01 Jan 18 - 03:52 PM

Cant even keep time ...nuff said.


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Subject: RE: Peggy Seeger biography 2017
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 Jan 18 - 01:10 PM

Idot think peggy seegers banjo technique is poor


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