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Indexing Songs Posted at Mudcat

Joe Offer 04 Mar 17 - 08:38 PM
Rapparee 04 Mar 17 - 10:28 PM
GUEST,Jon 05 Mar 17 - 11:05 AM
Nigel Parsons 05 Mar 17 - 07:08 PM
Joe Offer 05 Mar 17 - 11:14 PM
GUEST,Jon 06 Mar 17 - 12:28 AM
Snuffy 06 Mar 17 - 03:28 AM
GUEST,.gargoyle 06 Mar 17 - 02:13 PM
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Subject: Indexing Songs Posted at Mudcat
From: Joe Offer
Date: 04 Mar 17 - 08:38 PM

I've often wondered how to point people to all the songs that have been posted to Mudcat over the last 20 years, and I'm looking for ideas. It takes a long time for songs posted here to become part of the Digital Tradition, and I think we need a faster process.

In the Quick Links dropdown menu that appears on almost every Mudcat page, there is a link for Song Origins & Info. That leads to our thread link groups, which currently include most or all songs that have multiple threads. I've started making a thread group for every song posted at Mudcat, even if the song has only one thread. I think Jeri was the first one to make one-thread thread groups. I objected to that at first, but now I see the wisdom of it.

Songs written by a known songwriter, are usually grouped by the name of the songwriter. Unfortunately, we don't have a database of songwriter links like we have for Song Origins & Info, but I've been lobbying Max for years to create something like that. Would that be a good idea?

Any ideas for good ways to direct people to all the songs that have been posted here at Mudcat?

-Joe Offer, Mudcat Music Editor-


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Subject: RE: Indexing Songs Posted at Mudcat
From: Rapparee
Date: 04 Mar 17 - 10:28 PM

Songs written by a known songwriter, are usually grouped by the name of the songwriter. Unfortunately, we don't have a database of songwriter links like we have for Song Origins & Info, but I've been lobbying Max for years to create something like that. Would that be a good idea?

Yes, I think it would, if only to give credit where it's due -- and to remind people about using the songs of others.


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Subject: RE: Indexing Songs Posted at Mudcat
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 05 Mar 17 - 11:05 AM

Well Joe, my idea would have been to have Mudcat more "live" closer to what we tried at folkinfo. The pluses include that once you have the songs in a std format (I'd still favour abc) in a database, you can do pretty much what you want with them and that could include Mudcat being more of a direct feed for the DT.

But there are problems there, politics, DT being independent to Mudcat and using SongWrite and organising the postings (probably loosing some spontaneity if things were to rigid...)

OTOH, things get sort of lost in MC threads, it can take an eternity for corrections and attributions to filter their way through the system. And can't convince myself more permathreads would be the answer...

Then to get anything done would I think mean a hard manual slog by some even with an Index...

I guess if I was still involved in trying to help put an online song collection together, I'd be joining your lobby but now "happily retired" I guess I don't see things as being quite as easy as maybe I once did...???


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Subject: RE: Indexing Songs Posted at Mudcat
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 05 Mar 17 - 07:08 PM

I'm not really in the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" camp. But . . .
A Google search for most of the songs which have been posted here will bring up the Mudcat for either a title, or for a single line.

I've often thought of posting to discussions on individual songs, and gone to Google for further info, and often found it leads back here anyway.

This site, as a resource, is clearly doing something right.
Okay, I take back my opening comment.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it!


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Subject: RE: Indexing Songs Posted at Mudcat
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 Mar 17 - 11:14 PM

So, Nigel and Jon (and others), do you like what we've done with our Song Origins & Info database? I've been building a similar set of thread groups for songwriters, and all I have to do is talk Max into making a similar database for songwriters. Should I nag him until he sets one up?

For many years, Jon hosted a Website called folkinfo.org, which I think of as an ideal song database. He closed it in 2012, but there's and archive copy at my Website, http://www.joe-offer.com/folkinfo/.

Reinhard Zierke uses a different format at his "Mainly Norfolk" Website. It, too, is excellent. https://mainlynorfolk.info/folk/

Mudcatter "Richie" is Richard Matteson, Jr. Mel Bay has published a number of his books, and they're terrific. Richie's Website, http://bluegrassmessengers.com/, is an interesting collection of song studies. He does excellent work.

Sometime Mudcatter Lesley Nelson-Burns ran the contemplator.com Website, with lots of good MIDI arrangements of songs and the remarkable arrangements by Barry Taylor. Contemplator is down, but it is stored at archive.org. http://web.archive.org/web/20160303170720/http://www.contemplator.com/

I emailed Lesley to see what's happening with the Website, but haven't heard back. Lesley, if you see this, please contact me at joe@mudcat.org.

I'm curious about a Website called "A Traditional Music Library," http://www.traditionalmusic.co.uk/ - I've never encountered Rod Smith, who runs the site, but he offers a lot of interesting folk music resources.

And then there's The Jack Horntip Collection, http://www.horntip.com/ - it has been known by many names and has been found at many locations, but the horntip address is the one that's good right now.

Mudcatter Steve Gardham is another remarkable song collector and researcher. You can find examples of his work at the British Library, http://sounds.bl.uk/World-and-traditional-music/Steve-Gardham-Collection - we're lucky to have him.

Another Mudcatter who has done extraordinary work in folk song collecting and research is Jim Carroll. Jim has done a number of interesting online projects.

Another Website I like is this one: https://afolksongaweek.wordpress.com/

Every time I make a list like this, I know I leave out a number of remarkable pieces of work. This list is mostly of Websites built by regular or sometime Mudcatters. They've done wonderful things, and we've tried to incorporate at least some of their ideas into Mudcat.

Malcolm Douglas had a Website with some of his wonderful research work. Is it gone forever now? It was something like East Riding or South Riding Network.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Indexing Songs Posted at Mudcat
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 06 Mar 17 - 12:28 AM

Its a fantastic effort you (and maybe others) have put in there Joe but still personally I could ponder the limitations of threads...

I have stumbled on mainly Norfolk a few times and like the approach for a site to read.

I used to love Contemplator but rarely really had much joy with it after my (long while ago now) switch to Linux. It was a site I found I could waste a good hour on...

I'd have to look the others up but while the two examples I sort of know are excellent, I'm not sure off hand how to relate them to MC.


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Subject: RE: Indexing Songs Posted at Mudcat
From: Snuffy
Date: 06 Mar 17 - 03:28 AM

Joe, Malcolm's website was South Riding Folk Network. I've only briefly skimmed the site , but at first glance it doesn't appear to have much of Malcolm's song collections there.


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Subject: RE: Indexing Songs Posted at Mudcat
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 06 Mar 17 - 02:13 PM

Joe - your index is a remarkable labor of love.

And useful too. Over twenty years condensed, a codex.

Thank you.
You are a remarkable saint.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

hmmm....seems to be missing.   mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=60803


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