Tech: CD labels peeling off

Subject: Tech: CD labels peeling off
From: Cappuccino
Date: 05 Mar 17 - 04:18 AM

Being a home recording enthusiast, I do a lot of small runs; occasionally, I have them professionally duplicated with the CD label printed on to the CD, but sometimes I use blank audio CDs and apply adhesive paper labels (of the Avery kind).

In the last couple of years, I've had two complaints of CDs with paper labels jamming inside car stereos... which tends to make the supplier of the CD pretty unpopular. Is this a well-known problem? Or have I just been unlucky?

Thanks
-Cappuccino.

Subject: RE: Tech: CD labels peeling off
From: Will Fly
Date: 05 Mar 17 - 05:09 AM

It's not an uncommon problem. I stopped using them years ago. For tiny runs - less than 50 - I use a printable CD and write on it in black ink (not ballpoint). For larger runs, I have them professionally printed.

The main problem with the sticky labels is that they can add a significant extra thickness to the CD - which can be critical in a non-tray, slotted player. This thickness can lead to rubbing in the slot - and then the sticky label catches... and you know the rest.

Subject: RE: Tech: CD labels peeling off
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 05 Mar 17 - 05:22 AM

Ditto.

The adhesive is basically hot melt glue. Freeze it and it will turn to glass. Get it too hot and it will remelt. DVD labels same-same.

Subject: RE: Tech: CD labels peeling off
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Mar 17 - 06:19 AM

"The main problem with the sticky labels is that they can add a significant extra thickness to the CD - which can be critical in a non-tray, slotted player. This thickness can lead to rubbing in the slot - and then the sticky label catches... and you know the rest. "

With my car CD player they just don't go in at all.

Subject: RE: Tech: CD labels peeling off
From: Cappuccino
Date: 05 Mar 17 - 06:34 AM

Hmm.   The point about slotted CD players is indeed interesting. Ah well, another lesson learned.   

Many thanks.

C.

Subject: RE: Tech: CD labels peeling off
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 05 Mar 17 - 06:43 AM

I've never had it happen to me, but I learned many years ago (when I was using paper labels on Curmudgeon's CD) that it was possible, so stopped taking the chance by putting them into a car CD player...and found a way to get them duplicated with printed on labels.

Linn

Subject: RE: Tech: CD labels peeling off
From: The Doctor
Date: 05 Mar 17 - 06:54 AM

I have an Epson printer which can print labels, of any sort or design, on to CDs and DVDs. Whether it is still available I don't know, but that is the best solution. My sons advised me against stick-on labels, though I have used them a few times for DVDs.

Subject: RE: Tech: CD labels peeling off
From: Mr Red
Date: 05 Mar 17 - 08:33 AM

I use printable CD/DVDs because I give away CDs of contributors talking about my area in the old days. As a thankyou to the contributors (for their family). The thing is, especially if you are selling, they won't think it is their doing when it gums up the player. And it may be your fault.

FWIW because of the number of CD/DVDs and publicity I do, the printer (bought specially as a CD printer) has been modified with a Constant Ink Supply (CIS). The only mod needed was to raise the scanner platen with thin foam to get the ink tubes to the cartridge set. (Foam to seal the top from ingress of dust). The main tanks sit beside, in a darkened box to prevent any UV fading the inks, especially disproportionally. Because Epson don't like cloned cartridges it does occasionally spit out a page and even rarer a CD half printed, reporting out of a colour. My solution is to switch off and wait 20 seconds. It comes back and prints a page or two and decides the next colour needs changing. Then it forgets for 100 pages or so and looks at the cloned cartridge and has another fit. But it is far more reliable and cheaper that Jet-Tech cartridges and goes for infinitely longer before it needs toppping up - in a tray with news papers, just in case of drips, (the tanks don't leave the printer in my scheme).

Subject: RE: Tech: CD labels peeling off
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 05 Mar 17 - 09:23 AM

I got myself in a right mess when I tried to print a CD on out our Epson P50. Cups (on Linux) does allow adjustments to print area and to get things centred but I managed to confuse myself (I think in part, sometimes using CD 5" when I was modifying CD Custom or something like that).

I only wanted one CD with a Norwich City logo on it for my nephew but think I must have printed about 20 before I got it right.

I suppose the good news is that it is set for future use and using a central print sever, these adjustments would hold good for any PC/Android... in the household but we rarely want to print CDs. I suppose it is a feature to have but this printer's most common use is printing 4x6 card.

(Yep, some people still do like to have or be able to enclose a "postcard" in an envelope. And I suppose along similar lines, I was quite surprised to find that one bit of kit a niece had taken with her for her Europe trip [from Australia] was a Polaroid - I remember the older ones but was unaware of the modern ones.... And I seem to have rambled a long way from CD printing... )

Subject: RE: Tech: CD labels peeling off
From: Mr Red
Date: 05 Mar 17 - 05:21 PM


The adhesive is basically hot melt glue. Freeze it and it will turn to glass. Get it too hot and it will remelt

Especially left in cars in the summer, or severe winter.

There is another problem of leaving CD-RW in cars or on window ledges.
The bits are made by altering the reflectivity using a laser. This burns for a millisecond or less at high temperatures. But at lower temperatures over (say) 5 years a similar amount of heat-work is being done. Same result. With many bit-pits it only takes a few to defeat the error-correction and the track is flawed. Not all CDs in a batch will degrade as quickly but you don't get to choose which, except by buying specified long-life ones. Ordinary branded CDs may be no better than unbranded ones, and even come out of the same factory often.
Leaving in a hot car (especially in sunlight) only accelerates the degradation. Memory sticks and rotating HDDs are not that much better. Floppies never were! A sobering thought.

Subject: RE: Tech: CD labels peeling off
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 05 Mar 17 - 07:57 PM

Add to that the fact that some car CD players get VERY HOT: don't know why, but certainly happens in my husband's VW (another thing they need to modify??!!) Then the glue might melt!

Subject: RE: Tech: CD labels peeling off
From: Ross Campbell
Date: 05 Mar 17 - 10:33 PM

Never had any returns of the paper-labelled CD-Rs that I used to produce for our projects, but I became aware of the potential jamming problems which possibly began with the spread of slot-loading CD/DVD players. In future I plan to sort out my CD-capable printer and avoid paper labels completely. Anyone willing to risk them is welcome to have my remaining stock!

Another problem I became aware of is the very short life of standard CD-Rs. Experts recommended Taiyo Yuden products, but they are no longer manufactured in Japan. They were succeeded first by JVC, and now by CMC who reckon to be using the same technology. Whether they maintain the TY reputation remains to be seen. I have sourced some reasonably-priced printable CD-Rs from Amazon (buy via Mudcat!) with promised archive-life of 100 years(!) but will reserve my judgement until I have used a few.

Ross

Subject: RE: Tech: CD labels peeling off
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 06 Mar 17 - 01:58 AM

Now that I think of it, every problem I've seen was a car player. It's a fairly brutal environment from a design standpoint.

Quality assurance standards vary by industry and location but, generally speaking, the operating temperature ranges for automotive applications are a notch or two tougher than commercial / industrial. You're starting off with no safety margins.

Subject: RE: Tech: CD labels peeling off
From: Cappuccino
Date: 06 Mar 17 - 03:57 AM

I am indebted to you all.   And, Guest Jon, I am glad to hear you're printing a Norwich City logo... we're only twelve miles east of Carrow Road. And City's chances of promotion this year have now gone completely out the window...!

Many thanks
-C

Subject: RE: Tech: CD labels peeling off
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 06 Mar 17 - 10:07 AM

(OT but I'm on the North Coast. I don't follow much these days but do keep an eye. My father (unlike me b Shrewsbury etc...) is a Norwich born and bred person and still a fanatic. I believe his first game he was taken to was in the 40s when he was very young. Me, possibly fondest memories would be Kevin Keelan in goal, Duncan Forbes, Dave Stringer, Ken Foggo... and their first ever promotion to the then division 1. We used to visit my grandfather in Norwich and get to a match in our holidays.)

Subject: RE: Tech: CD labels peeling off
From: EBarnacle
Date: 06 Mar 17 - 03:51 PM

One issue I have had with printable CD's and DVD's is that if you preprint the faces some computer burners will not accept the disk as blank. I have begun using Lightscribe for short runs and accepting that that is only a black and white technology.

Subject: RE: Tech: CD labels peeling off
From: Mr Red
Date: 07 Mar 17 - 03:40 AM

Lightscribe is useful but I found the images were not that prominent.

Printables may not have perfect colour rendering, it all depends on price, but they are not hard to read. I use "full face" but that has its own effect, because most CDRs only have the aluminium in the burnable region so there can be a difference, noticeable for images in the inner region, text less so.

Another thing is to be seen if you look at the print under a strong magnifying glass. The paper fibre is thin with resin behind and you can see spots around the edges. Comparing it to regular cheapo cheapo stock - I don't see this effect on paper sheets. This may be a combination of the medium, price thereof, the ink (not epson branded) and the limitations of the printer. It is hard to perceive any effect with the naked eye by I would expect a softening of images and text. Certainly I lighten most images because they tend to print darker. With text, that is probably wanted anyway.

The effect of the recipients is very rewarding.

Subject: RE: Tech: CD labels peeling off
From: Will Fly
Date: 07 Mar 17 - 04:45 AM

When I get my CDs produced, I burn a single master on my computer. I then order the printed but blank CDs - 50, 100, whatever.

When I receive the printed blanks, I use a small multi-copier which uses the master to copy 3 CDs at a time. It's more time-consuming but saves a little cash. Mind you, next time I'm tempted to say "the hell with it", and get the CD printing company to do the music copying as well.