BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: bobad
Date: 27 Mar 17 - 01:40 PM

Police chiefs on Friday appealed for help from the public in finding out how the attacker — born Adrian Russell Ajao in the suburban English county of Kent — became radicalized.

In the hunt for clues, police made two "significant arrests" overnight, bringing the total in custody since Wednesday's attack to nine.

"Clearly a main line in our investigation is what led him to be radicalized," Metropolitan Police Acting Deputy Commissioner Mark Rowley told reporters. "Was it through influences in our community, influences from overseas or from online propaganda? Our investigation and arrests will help in that but the public appeal will make a real difference."

NBC News

Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Mar 17 - 01:05 PM

It may be a matter of opinion but it's a hell of a stretch. No links to extremist groups, no evidence of radicalisation, no evidence that he discussed his plan with anyone else. "He's a Muslim, he did a bad thing so he's a jihadist" simply doesn't wash. Plenty of evidence that he was disturbed and not happy in his own skin.

Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: DMcG
Date: 27 Mar 17 - 12:50 PM

The BBC site reports: "But Deputy Assistant Commissioner Neil Basu said that, while Masood "clearly had an interest in Jihad", police had so far found no evidence of an association with the group or al-Qaeda, or that he had discussed his plan with others."

So not ISIS or al-Qaeda if the reporting is accurate. It is surely a matter of opinion with no hard or fast line when someone "with an interest in Jihad" who carries acts like this can fairly be described as a "Jihadist". And, in my view, not a terribly significant debating point.

Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Mar 17 - 12:41 PM

Well, you see, Teribus, Andrew Neil and you (who are in total agreement) appear to have jumped the gun. The killer was not on intelligence radar and there is no evidence that he was radicalised in prison. The idea that he was some kind of Islamic jihadist has basically bitten the dust. Seems to me that he was a demented and frustrated loner and that the atrocity was a one-off tragedy brought about by a man who had lost his mind. So easy to jump to premature conclusions, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: Greg F.
Date: 27 Mar 17 - 12:40 PM

Its "funny" that T-Bird knows bugger-all of he's talking about?

Tho true and predictable, I don't find it funny at all.

Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Mar 17 - 10:59 AM

" I always thought that Greg F came from the bottom of the other side of the pond." :0)

Now that IS funny, bet even Greg had a little grin at that one!

Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: bobad
Date: 27 Mar 17 - 10:49 AM

I always thought that Greg F came from the bottom of the other side of the pond.

Yes, he does, he's one of them "self loathing" Americans 😂

Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: Teribus
Date: 27 Mar 17 - 10:23 AM

Stating my opinion of the link in the OP Shaw, which I have every right to do - couldn't basically give a toss what you think about Andrew Neil, what he said, or anything else you express an opinion about.

Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Mar 17 - 08:56 AM

And why would I be surprised that you'd agree with every word spoken by an arch-Tory anti-union failed right-wing newspaper-editing ex-Murdoch lackey playboy, Teribus? 😂

Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Mar 17 - 08:52 AM

Well 15 miles from Bude isn't Bude. Actually, I live four miles out and can see Widemouth Bay from my house. We've just got back from sitting in the sun outside Rosie's Kitchen overlooking Crooklets beach having a mug of tea and a basket of chips. Nirvana! I can take you to some real dumps fifteen miles from Bude. So specify or be damned!

Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 27 Mar 17 - 07:29 AM

Oddly enough, we were talking to folks who have lived 15 miles from Bude for the past 20 years, and are now moving back to Sussex, They have had enough of the lazy slow life in the far west of England!

Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: Teribus
Date: 27 Mar 17 - 06:47 AM

"The wife & I have often thought of retiring to Cornwall - just so soon as we win the lottery, that is." - Greg F

Funny thing to say for someone who in another thread asks about how things are in Blighty? With his anti-Trump rantings and engagement with the domestic affairs of the US I always thought that Greg F came from the bottom of the other side of the pond.

Totally agree with everything Andrew Neil said. Khalid Masood, born as Adrian Elms, was to all intent and purpose a complete and utter total waste of space.

Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Mar 17 - 08:22 PM

I can be in Mousehole in one hour fifteen, Greg. I can tell you of a couple of of places where good tunes can be had, too! It's a bit pricey down there. There are great places a bit nearer to Bude that are a tad more affordable. See you soon, Greg!

Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Mar 17 - 08:08 PM

I know of Mousehole, Steve- was just the first near-homophone that came to mind. The wife & I have often thought of retiring to Cornwall - just so soon as we win the lottery, that is.

Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Mar 17 - 07:19 PM

No-one in their right mind. Mousehole is a lovely Cornish village on a wonderful coastline. A bit touristy these days, but well worth a visit to see the Christmas lights in the harbour, or, even better, to go to see the ceremonial switching-on. Have a google!

Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Mar 17 - 06:13 PM

Dunno. How many people from Mousehole would prefer live in Tunbridge Wells?

Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: Stanron
Date: 26 Mar 17 - 06:02 PM

Greg F. wrote: Tunbridge Wells, Islamabad, Mosul - what's the difference?

How many people from Tunbridge Wells would prefer to live in Mosul?

Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 Mar 17 - 05:55 PM

Correct, Steve.
Royal Tunbridge Wells.
Big Phil
If you are a Yorkshireman, why dont you take heed of Yorkshire saying
See all, ear all, SAY NOWT. Eat all, sup all, pay nowt. An' if th'ivver does owt for nowt, allus do it for thissen.

Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Mar 17 - 05:42 PM

Tunbridge Wells, Islamabad, Mosul - what's the difference?

Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Mar 17 - 03:54 PM

You are aware, aken, that Tunbridge Wells was where Khalid Masood originally came from. He also lived in Rye as a child. Neither exactly the kind of places normally seen as hotbeds of jihadist terrorism.

Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Mar 17 - 07:31 AM

As your post arrived simultaneously with mine, Dick, I'll work on the assumption that you didn't mean me.

Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 Mar 17 - 07:29 AM

What a load of hot air. I agree with Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Mar 17 - 07:29 AM

I am from England, I am English and I am a Lancashire lad, among other things. I don't know whether we have the best police force or army in the world becauseI haven't been to all the countries in the world and observed their police and soldiers in action. Rather than digging people out in order to eliminate them, I think we should try to promote tolerance and understanding, be better global neighbours and choose our friends carefully. As I'm not a pacifist I agree that we may have to seek out and kill individuals who mean us harm. But this should be a last-ditch measure and we have to recognise that overly aggressive, preemptive measures might have the same outcome as cutting off the Lernaean Hydra's head

Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: Big Phil
Date: 26 Mar 17 - 06:39 AM

I am from GREAT Britain, I am English, and I am a Yorkshire man first and foremost.

I echo Mr Neil's words, do these sub human cretins know who we are and what we are capable of. We laugh at their pathetic attempts to scare us off the streets and disrupt our lives.

To quote loosely some one's words, we have the finest Police and Army in the world, we have special skills honed over many years, we will find you and we will eliminate you one by one if needs be.

Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Mar 17 - 05:37 AM

"We are only discussing the raghead "
Thatk you for that racist comment Bozo - it goes a long way to underlining my point
Some people seem to be happy to make this a 'Muslim' thing, which was what I was responding to.
Some of you forum fairies are really getting out of hand in the way you attempt to interfere with the rights of posters
Your're not a forum fairy?
My mistake - kindly mind your own business
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Mar 17 - 05:29 AM

raghead poundland jihadist johnnies

Gutter press rhetoric at it worst.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 26 Mar 17 - 05:23 AM

We are only discussing the raghead poundland jihadist johnnies in this thread, if it's all the same to you Jim Carroll.

Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Mar 17 - 03:46 AM

" in their wars of imperialist conquest,"
In which case, the world would be full of people hating each other's religions, - murder and exploitation in the name of Christianity, being a front runner in this.
Start pinning the sins of States who have used religion as an excuse for hatred and none of us gets out of here alive.
As late as the early 20th century, 'gallant little Belgium' slaughtered up to ten million Congolese colonials in pursuit of rubber - are the descendants of the people of Leopold or the Christian Church who supported him in line for hatred because of those actions?
Britain built an Empire and exploited a large slice of the planet "with a gun in one hand and a Bible in the other".
Today's Jihadists are fanatics that the west have empowered by inaction and self-interest.
We stood by and watched Assad imprison, torture and murder his people and did nothing - we even voted in our parliament to do nothing - the result being that a tiny bunch of fanatics stepped into the gap, offered the opposition that wasn't forthcoming from the wealthy west and blossomed into a massive threat.
We sell weapons do despots who oppress their people and would rather see dead children carried out of the sea, than offer safety to those fleeing despotism which has been propped up by our arms and our support because "they may be monsters, but they are "our" monsters".   
We fill our shops with goods produced in lethal conditions for slave-level wages because they are cheap, and we sneer at "economic migrants" who try to better the lives of themselves and their families and describe them as a "threat to our way of life"
The wealthy 'Christian' west is very much in need of Dr Christian Barnard's pioneering surgery - we have become totally inured to compassion and humanity.
Islam is no more violent and threatening than any other religion - go look up 'The Evil Bible' if you want the quotes.
In the hands of fanatics, any religion is dangerous and it is at its most dangerous when it attempts to take the moral high ground
Christian terrorism has a track record that goes back centuries and challenges the worst of them, so let's not be too smug and "holier than thou".
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Mar 17 - 07:46 PM

Ake drew his line and I have drawn mine, with more caution.

As for Andrew, his argument is a rather facile one to make. In essence it was his own masterful version of "the only thing we have to fear is fear itself".

Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: Senoufou
Date: 25 Mar 17 - 07:26 PM

I have nothing against Muslims - I am married to one, and an immigrant at that. So I'm not Islamophobic.

But if a man deliberately mows down and kills several pedestrians then enters the outside area of the Houses of Parliament and knifes an unarmed policeman to death, it's obvious he will be stopped immediately by the Security forces at hand. And the safest way to stop such a dangerous individual is to shoot to kill. This would pertain in almost any country in the world. It wouldn't matter if he were mentally ill,a jihadist, a Jew, Christian, Muslim or Pagan, white, black, dressed as a pantomime horse or in a tutu. He would be shot, and rightly so.
I normally abhor guns, and do not like to think of our Police having to be armed. However, in this situation and location, it was in my opinion the right thing to do.

Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Mar 17 - 06:54 PM

That goes for xenophobia of all sorts. Amazingly I too object to mass murderers but I do not need an armband to identify me as such.

My children's High School is in the national spot light now over an alleged rape of a 14 year old girl by a 16 year old illegal immigrant in the bathroom.

Fox News screams about the scourge of illegal aliens. Lawyers say there was a consensual act and others call for an end to a sanctuary Stat status.

I WITNESSED A ACTUAL FIST FIGHT in the strip mall when old White guys tell black people to get out of the country. I have seen a pick up truck driver intentionally try to hit a non Trump citizen and succeed. A new age of hate is a real, clear and present danger.

Even here I hear the glee of some who are thrilled the killer was shot dead. I am 'pleased' the situation was resolved but I unlike like some am not quite as pleased as some.

When 'kill the fucker' becomes the first and most favored action, we all face double jeopardy in cases of "friendly fire".

At a glance some of you may bear a resemblance to a Muslim. Who knows maybe you do have it comin. I have already had my share of "kill'em all and let God sort them out.

Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Mar 17 - 06:42 PM

"We must wake up to the terror represented by these "Angry of Tunbridge Wells" fanatics. "

Boilerplate rhetoric?

Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: bobad
Date: 25 Mar 17 - 06:37 PM

Yes and how many countries were and still are under the control of Arab foreigners, none of whom were there at the invitation of the people of those countries.

Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Mar 17 - 06:27 PM

We shouldn't forget that within living memory every single Muslim country in the world, apart from Saudi Arabia, was under the control of European foreigners. None of whom were there at the invitation of the people of those countries.

Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Mar 17 - 06:26 PM

We shouldn't forget that within living memory every single Muslim country in the world, apart from Saudi Arabia, were under the control of European foreigners. None of whom were there at the invitation of the people of those countries.

Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: bobad
Date: 25 Mar 17 - 05:09 PM

Islamophobia is a very recent invention.

Lol........tell that to those who were subjugated by the Muslims in their wars of imperialist conquest, they had every right to be "Islamophobic".

Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: Greg F.
Date: 25 Mar 17 - 04:32 PM

This is something which we have never been called on to resist in the past

Absolutely - Islamophobia is a very recent invention.

Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Mar 17 - 04:04 PM

We must wake up to the terror represented by these "Angry of Tunbridge Wells" fanatics.

Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Mar 17 - 02:00 PM

I quite agree "D".

Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 25 Mar 17 - 01:22 PM

I am pleased that jihadist Johnny was dealt with quietly, professionally and without any fuss.

Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: DMcG
Date: 25 Mar 17 - 12:49 PM

I am reluctant to get into that discussion, ake, since it is not suitable for a public forum. All I will say is that it much harder than it sounds.

Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Mar 17 - 12:25 PM

Mr McGrath.....I know that you know the fight against Islamic Terrorism bears no comparison to our war against "Mr Hitler" and the people who were "London born and bred" have long since packed up their pride and caught a bus to somewhere that they are not robbed by scum landlords and bored to death by the "cultural elite."

Islamic Terrorism does not require the sophisticated communication and coordination mentioned by "D", two or three individuals self infected with for example smallpox or similar infectious disease, should just about do the trick, followed up by numerous warnings of similar attacks all over London or any other large city.

It is simple and deathly effective.

This is something which we have never been called on to resist in the past, a new departure .....people who actually welcome death to advance their purpose.

Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Mar 17 - 11:52 AM

Boilerplate rhetoric.

Noel Coward's London pride, read at the end of the programme put it better. So does the Dad's Army theme song.

Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Mar 17 - 10:09 AM

I acknowledge Andrew Neil's sharpness and his ability to see through bullshit, but he has a bullying manner with his political guests at times and his little opening polemics are tiresome and egotistical. One particular one, when Castro died, was quite nasty and was not balanced or challenged by the rest of the show's content. I thought the latest one was just a bit of a rant, frankly. Whilst not relevant to this discussion, it's worth mentioning (in my opinion) that he has worked for the Tories and is currently chairman of the group that owns the right-wing Daily Telegraph and The Spectator. Plenty of other right-wing associations during his career.

Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 25 Mar 17 - 09:48 AM

They are basically inhuman shits, not fit to breathe our air, and thank goodness that murdering poundland jihadist will not!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: DMcG
Date: 25 Mar 17 - 06:49 AM

I don't know, ake. In so far as you can ascribe a 'will' to what is essentially a loose affiliation, the will is already there. As far as we can tell, the capability is not. Individuals acting alone with enough patience to fall off the monitoring are almost impossible to stop; anything like a significant biological or chemical attack requires communication and coordination that potentially exposes it to the security services. All of that could change, naturally, but I think Neil's approach of saying let's get things in perspective is the right one. Horrible and appalling as this is, it is tiny compared to many other things in Britain's past, as Andrew Neil's Luftwaffe comment indicates.

Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Mar 17 - 03:41 AM

I thought Neil's little rant was a cliché ridden piece of self promotion, which was amazingly endorsed by the intellectual Portillo.

It did not address the underlying issues of terrorism and promoted the view that modern terrorism can be fought by turning the other cheek. A mere handful of Jihadists could destroy the operational structure of the UK in weeks, should they wish to do so.

Time to get serious I believe, and to start thinking of the possible rather than the probable, how to we react to chemical or even worse, biological terrorism?

Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 25 Mar 17 - 02:54 AM

Unusually, the police already say it was.
They would not without evidence.

Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Mar 17 - 06:33 PM

Good speech and not knocking the sentiment but has it been confirmed that the attacker was indeed a jihadi yet? He was certainly a criminal with a long record of violence but as far as I know the motive has not yet been established. I think we should wait and see.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 24 Mar 17 - 06:10 PM

Amazing reference to "poundland jihadists" !!!