BS: border terriers

Subject: RE: BS: border terriers
From: Senoufou
Date: 08 Aug 22 - 03:00 AM

Treatment/putting an animal down at the vet's can indeed be expensive, but fully-qualified vets have had a very long University course to complete, similar to the Med School courses. Also, most vets have additional work to do at farms, testing cattle etc for TB and treating outbreaks of various diseases.
They also have to deal with grief-stricken pet-owners after putting their pet to sleep. I have had experience of wonderful vets many many times, and have always been grateful for their expertise, knowledge and compassion. To complain about charges (as many people do) is rather mean in my view.

Subject: RE: BS: border terriers
From: Ebbie
Date: 07 Aug 22 - 05:22 PM

Earlier in this thread - MUCH earlier- a remark was made that was a bit derogatory toward veterinarians. I would just point out that vets have among the highest rates of suicide among the caring professions. It appears that losing, or having to put down, so many of their patients is very hard on their psyches. Ever since I read that stat, I've felt much more empathy toward veterinarians.

Subject: RE: BS: border terriers
From: keberoxu
Date: 04 Aug 22 - 06:42 AM

Ooops, sorry, don't know how that last happened.
Before this thread becomes a thing of the past,
let me link to a video of
Andy Murray getting his face licked by his Border Terrier,
part of a feature story with photographs.

Border Terriers and Andy Murray, and others (like Ronnie Irving)

Subject: RE: BS: border terriers
From: keberoxu
Date: 03 Aug 22 - 09:00 PM

Subject: RE: BS: border terriers
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Aug 22 - 08:49 AM

Oh, and 99! Anyone for the ton? :-D

Subject: RE: BS: border terriers
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Aug 22 - 03:36 PM

Join the club! :-D

Subject: RE: BS: border terriers
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 01 Aug 22 - 03:23 PM

Oh! I thought it was webspeak that I couldn't work out. I'm easily confused.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: border terriers
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Aug 22 - 03:12 PM

It is just "sin", Doug. It was autocorrected to "since" earlier.

Subject: RE: BS: border terriers
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 01 Aug 22 - 02:55 PM

SIN, FFS!

I can work out what "FFS" means, but what does "SIN" stand for?

DC

Subject: RE: BS: border terriers
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Aug 22 - 02:04 PM

One thing sure to make me return having already said I will duck out is being told to "fucking drop it".

As I had already apologised and said I was happy to leave it, I guess we must have cross posted. Would you care to reconsider that last comment John?

Subject: RE: BS: border terriers
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Aug 22 - 01:49 PM

SIN, FFS!

Subject: RE: BS: border terriers
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Aug 22 - 01:49 PM

My comment which offended you was made in anger after a sequence of venomous remarks about, and completely unjustifiable accusations against, dogs and their owners, with which you sided.

Let he who is without since cast the first stone.

Now fucking drop it.

Subject: RE: BS: border terriers
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Aug 22 - 01:42 PM

Sorry all. It was wrong of me to resurrect an argument from over 5 years ago. I will just say one more thing and then duck out. Not being overly fond of dogs but never wishing harm on any living thing I was offended by both of BWMs remarks. Not that I ever would but if I was to say people who love dogs must be mentally deranged or that I would have all dogs put down I would, quite rightly, be shot down in flames. I am sure John does not really believe the things he said and should have just put them down to a fit of pique. Please put my remarks down to the same.

Subject: RE: BS: border terriers
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Aug 22 - 01:32 PM

Dave, my comment was in retaliation for venomous aggression and unjustifiable accusations against myself and other dog-owners made by someone other than yourself, and it was made in a moment of justifiable anger. Not only that, it was made over four years ago, and I have made no further reference to it on this thread, even though I have continued to have perfectly friendly discussions with others here.

I got over it and chose to avoid further conflict at that time. After four years, it’s high time you did the same.

Subject: RE: BS: border terriers
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Aug 22 - 12:01 PM

No, neither trolling nor fighting. I just have an aversion to being told that I am not "wired properly" because I am not overly fond of dogs and having harm wished on all cats. I do consider you a friend, John, but if you believe there is something mentality wrong with me and wish to exterminate my pets then maybe we need to rewind a little. Do you really think there is something wrong with people who are not fond of dogs? Would you really like to "shoot the fucking lot" when it comes to cats? If not, then perhaps you could explain why you said these things. If you do believe it, please feel free to consider me unfriended.

Subject: RE: BS: border terriers
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Aug 22 - 11:32 AM

Really, Dave? Trolling someone who considers you a friend now? I really thought better of you. Shame on you.

Out.

Subject: RE: BS: border terriers
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Aug 22 - 09:27 AM

Feeling a little peckish this morning, Dave? Picking up an old fight? (And not all participants are still members, perhaps altering the conversation some.)

Subject: RE: BS: border terriers
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 01 Aug 22 - 08:54 AM

Point of order: cats *can* be trained. We've been privileged to be staff to five now; every single one of them learned (in short order) that me whistling as if to summon up a taxi means dinner's served. Call them Pavlov's mogs if you will, but IMHO that counts as training.

Subject: RE: BS: border terriers
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Aug 22 - 07:34 AM

I had forgotten all about this thread but in response to "People who don't like dogs arent wired properly" I asked the question "I don't mind them but prefer cats. What does that make me?" but never got a reply.

I did notice in passing this time that the poster who made the first comment went on to say "Cats are completely untrainable, they roam around other people's properties, they stink, they are filthy little bastards that lick their own arses and then rub their shitty faces around people's legs, shit in other people's flower beds and cover it up for the garden-owner to get his/her hands in it, and spray their disgusting, evil-smelling piss all over the place, making everywhere stink worse than a Cairo khazi in high summer. I'd shoot the fucking lot."

So Backwoodsman. If you believe that there is something mentally wrong with me because I don't particularly like dogs, what are your views on someone who admits that they would exterminate an entire species?

Subject: RE: BS: border terriers
From: keberoxu
Date: 01 Aug 22 - 05:41 AM

I was blessed with a close encounter recently with someone's pet Border Terrier.
The human and the pet dog, both females, strolled up the sidewalk.
When I came close to them, I said,
"That looks like a Border Terrier."
"It IS a Border Terrier," came the reply.
And upon inquiring, I learned that the kennel from which the dog came
is barely one mile down Main Street!

She was a lovely youngster, three years old according to the owner.
She sniffed one hand out of curiosity,
and then, much like a pet cat,
she brushed the side of her head against my hand.
I was charmed.

Subject: RE: BS: border terriers
From: keberoxu
Date: 07 Jul 22 - 10:27 AM

Not only a nicely done article, but plenty of
wonderful photographs in this piece.

History of the Border Terrier

Subject: RE: BS: border terriers
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Jul 18 - 04:28 AM

Oh, I think the instinct for hunting is there, he just lacks the will (or refuses to expend the energy)! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: border terriers
From: keberoxu
Date: 27 Jul 18 - 07:42 PM

Yes, one dog fancier / writer
has described terriers as having
a Jekyll and Hyde personality,
with Hyde pertaining to the hunting mode.
Your little Baxter sounds more like Jekyll.

Subject: RE: BS: border terriers
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Jul 18 - 02:15 AM

A fellow-Border Terrier owner (who has a landscaping and gardening business and takes their BT out with them working on customers' gardens) has had moles brought back to them several times by their dog. If a BT is a hunter, it's a ferocious hunter - my BT hasn't a clue, far too lazy to be arsed with something so energetic as {{{swoon}}} hunting!

Subject: RE: BS: border terriers
From: keberoxu
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 08:50 PM

One of the favorite Border Terrier anecdotes I have read.

The account is related by someone owned by a Border Terrier or two,
and the human in question likes to garden.
At the proper season, the human will be out working in the garden,
while the Border Terriers frolic among, and sometimes flatten,
what is planted and growing.

One day one of the Borders suddenly became alert.
He moved quickly to a spot in the earth, growled at the soil,
and rapidly dug and pounced.
Then he spat out what he had unearthed, and left it.

And the human, who hurried over to investigate, found something
that humans rarely find in that condition:
a mole, warm to the touch, with no pulse, no movement, no breathing,
very newly dead. Quite dead. But still warm!

As though the varmint had died instantly, of sheer fright.
It seems that moles have a bad taste or smell, or both, to dogs though.
Which would account for why the dog dropped and left its prey.

Subject: RE: BS: border terriers
From: Mr Red
Date: 06 Mar 18 - 07:32 AM

so the Westie and Scottie are Lalland if not quite border?

Subject: RE: BS: border terriers
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Mar 18 - 03:51 AM

"The West Highland White Terrier shares a history with that of the Dandie Dinmont, Skye, Scottish, and Cairn Terriers; they are all considered branches of the same breed. The West Highland White Terrier originated in Scotland and was used for hunting fox, badger, and otter and for killing vermin such as rats."

"It is certain, however, that Scotties and West Highland White Terriers are closely related—both their forefathers originated from the Blackmount region of Perthshire and the Moor of Rannoch. Scotties were originally bred to hunt and kill vermin on farms and to hunt badgers and foxes in the Highlands of Scotland."

The first quote is from Dogtime.com
The second quote is from Wikipedia

Some good info regarding the origins of the Border Terrier as a breed here...

Subject: RE: BS: border terriers
From: Mr Red
Date: 06 Mar 18 - 03:20 AM

is a Westie a border terrier? Come to that is a Scottie?

GF has a WHT/SC cross.

Subject: RE: BS: border terriers
From: keberoxu
Date: 05 Mar 18 - 06:01 PM

Well, I can't comment on Border Collies.

Border Terriers, however, are bred in kennels all over:
it is possible to find breeders of purebred Border Terriers
from Italy to Switzerland, in Scandinavia, and so on.
This is a current fact.
And it does not change the fact
that Border Terriers in particular have their ORIGIN in and around Scotland,
and this is true for terriers great and small.

If the preceding is true for the terrier,
why not for the Border Collie --
it is only logical --
that the Border Collie as a cultivated "pure" breed had its origins
in the border between Scotland and England,
quite some time ago,
and the DESCENDANTS of said breed can turn up . . . today . . .
in many places far from the Scottish Borders.

Subject: RE: BS: border terriers
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 05 Mar 18 - 05:52 PM

And yet the border collie we fostered for 10 weeks last year came from Romania!

Subject: RE: BS: border terriers
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 Mar 18 - 01:12 PM

Border Terriers were originally bred in North-East England, the Scottish Borders region for pest control, and for pursuing foxes when they went to ground. Hence 'Border' Terrier.

Subject: RE: BS: border terriers
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 04 Mar 18 - 10:31 AM

Is there any significance in the use of "border" in dog breeds?

Subject: RE: BS: border terriers
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 03 Mar 18 - 05:05 PM

Oh yes! Does it often in his sleep, when he dreams!

Subject: RE: BS: border terriers
From: keberoxu
Date: 03 Mar 18 - 04:48 PM

And can Baxter 'sing'?

That sound terriers make which is very high, very clear,
and the head is thrown back like a hound baying?

Subject: RE: BS: border terriers
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 03 Mar 18 - 03:55 PM

"Backwoodsman, may I ask what is your Border Terrier's name, or is that classified information?"

Not classified, Keb. He was to be 'Elvis' but, when we went to the breeder to choose our puppy, the breeder had named them all, and the one we chose knew and reacted to the name they'd given him - Baxter. It seemed unfair to change his name from the one he already knew, so 'Baxter' he stayed.

"Does your dog like to do what North-American Mudcatter Donuel calls
"the horizontal grass dance"?
Love that term, wish I could take credit for it but I can't.
The dogs have the biggest silly grins on their faces
when they squirm on their backs on the ground."

Indeed he does - more accurately in his case it's the 'horizontal carpet dance'! When we come home from his walk, or when my wife or I come home, he picks up one of our slippers, runs around the room with it, drops it again and wriggles on his back on it, with the silly grin on his face!

My wife is a member of a number of Border Terrier groups, and she says it's a common phenomenon.

Subject: RE: BS: border terriers
From: keberoxu
Date: 03 Mar 18 - 03:19 PM

Due to my rental apartment restrictions I could not have a companion animal, dog, cat, or otherwise.

Years ago, though, in order to get acquainted with Border Terriers, which are not so common in the U.S., I visited a number of breeders, each of whom had numerous dogs, and was able to get up close to lots of little whiskery faces, and to compare individuals.

Unfortunately even within the professional breeding arena, people have different ways of interpreting the standard to which they breed, this was brought home to me in observing all the conflicts at the dog-show level and comparing it to the various workdog contests.

Some breeders want a particular look and energetic response, and will disregard bad tempers, sadly, in order to breed pups that fit the picture.

There was one Border Terrier kennel that shall remain nameless. Went for looks and high-energy performances, and had at least one brood bitch who was wonderful with pups -- no matter if the pups were hers or not -- but fought and scrapped with any and all adult dogs.
By contrast, the breeders at this kennel got a chance to breed a different female of theirs, with someone else's Border Terrier stud, and sprang for it. I can't identify who bred the stud dog, either, not publicly. it remains to be noted that the stud dog came from a line of terriers with a really mellow, calm temperament (for a terrier), and in this line, they were one-track-minded when their prey drive kicked in on the job, but around other dogs they had been bred AND trained to have good manners, lots of confidence, and a healthy disregard for anybody silly enough to want to cause trouble.

I have never forgotten the occasion when I visited the kennel which bred a litter from this breeding -- the kennel with the mother, not the stud dog. From that litter there was one little Border Terrier who was now, himself, grown up and at stud. An intact male, mind you.

When I got to meet the dogs, he stood out, because he was so calm and collected that he could have been from a different species. All the other adult Borders were bundles of nerves, restless, vocal, and competitive. This mellow little Border Terrier man showed affection without getting his mainspring all wound up. If only I could have taken him home! He charmed the you-know-what out of me.

There was even a litter of little pups about, he was their sire. And he was brilliant at playing with them, as gentle as he was speedy, and you never felt a moment's unease that he might think they were rodents and want to break their necks or anything.

Last time I saw this little fellow, it was show time at a dog club arena somewhere. He just sat off to one side, with a big cheerful grin on his face, looking happy to be alive. I'll never forget him.

Subject: RE: BS: border terriers
From: keberoxu
Date: 03 Mar 18 - 11:45 AM

Backwoodsman, may I ask what is your Border Terrier's name, or is that classified information?

Does your dog like to do what North-American Mudcatter Donuel calls
"the horizontal grass dance"?
Love that term, wish I could take credit for it but I can't.
The dogs have the biggest silly grins on their faces
when they squirm on their backs on the ground.

Subject: RE: BS: border terriers
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 03 Mar 18 - 11:25 AM

Steve might have a '1/2-acre garden miles from anywhere', but the vast majority of cat-owners don't. Cats are completely untrainable, they roam around other people's properties, they stink, they are filthy little bastards that lick their own arses and then rub their shitty faces around people's legs, shit in other people's flower beds and cover it up for the garden-owner to get his/her hands in it, and spray their disgusting, evil-smelling piss all over the place, making everywhere stink worse than a Cairo khazi in high summer. I'd shoot the fucking lot.

And, before anyone comments, my first wife and I had cats for 20 years. Thank God I came to my senses and got a Border Terrier instead.

Subject: RE: BS: border terriers
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 03 Mar 18 - 08:12 AM

.... and I don't really hate cats!

Subject: RE: BS: border terriers
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 03 Mar 18 - 08:03 AM

Forget that, Steve. I've just seen that you have a 1/2 acre garden miles from anywhere.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: border terriers
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 03 Mar 18 - 07:10 AM

We've been married for forty years and, until 2013, we always had cats.

Just out of interest, Steve, how did you stop them crapping in other people's flower beds and how much effort did you put in to cleaning up after them? All your comments on the hygiene problems, associated with dogs, apply equally to cats.

Ding dong dell
Pussy's in the well
Who put him in?
I did - I hate cats


DC

Subject: RE: BS: border terriers
From: keberoxu
Date: 02 Mar 18 - 06:53 PM

I recall someone who was owned by a Border Terrier,
admitting that the dog was NOT diligent about protecting the premises from strangers,
because the dog was too sociable and loved people too much.

Once when there were uniformed strangers performing a task of some kind,
they laughed about the dog:
"If we had been burgling the house,
the dog would have offered us tea
and shown us where to find the silver..."

Subject: RE: BS: border terriers
From: keberoxu
Date: 02 Mar 18 - 04:15 PM

maybe it's safe to come out again.
with one of the canine-averse members having been benched.

Subject: RE: BS: border terriers
From: Mr Red
Date: 17 Aug 17 - 03:52 AM

There was a breeding programme in Russia on Silver Foxes which aimed to mimic what was thought to be the process of Gray Wolves turning into dogs over years of contact with homo sapiens. A recent BBC TV prog pointed out that since perestroika they sell the tame foxes as pets to finance the continuation of the experiment. The viscous ones were also selected for as a control.

One thing that was reported was along with tameness selected for, their fur showed more silver in the black and the link shows a tame white one.

It has been said that the "dog" has a unique distinction in that the differing physiological and psychological variations that are exhibited are extreme compared to other animals.

Subject: RE: BS: border terriers
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Aug 17 - 08:53 PM

I don't know if it is being done,
but makes sense to me to get some healthy breeding pairs of wolves
and start a long term project to create new breeds of dog
without the weak genetic health problems of Centuries of highly over inbred pedigree dogs...???

I'm resigned to never owning a dog again, but a genetically engineered medium sized wolf-like looking dog that doesn't drool too much,
or shed hair might be something I'd consider...
..and a bonus would be the intelligence of a border collie
and loyalty of an alsation, without the manic neurotic personality issues....

Subject: RE: BS: border terriers
From: keberoxu
Date: 16 Aug 17 - 07:47 PM

bye bye borders

Subject: RE: BS: border terriers
From: Mr Red
Date: 16 Aug 17 - 05:07 AM

many of them let their pooches wee and poo in our front border.

Sen - if that was my garden I would put up a sign, a roll of poobags and a bucket. Shame the guilty.

Maybe a few photos of offenders would be over the top, but..............

Subject: RE: BS: border terriers
From: keberoxu
Date: 14 Aug 17 - 01:31 PM

rats? christmas every day for rats?
the border terriers would want to check THAT out.

Subject: RE: BS: border terriers
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Apr 17 - 03:09 PM

hmmm.. 2 "profiteers" in one sentence..
a mixture of poor proof reading and editing..
and just shows the subliminal extent of how much I dont like the way vets have turned out...

Subject: RE: BS: border terriers
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Apr 17 - 03:07 PM

I can easily get wistful glancing at dogs, and catching their eyes..

But as above, and for more reasons, I am not willing or capable of taking on the responsibility to own and look after one ever again..

No matter how much the wife could easily forget all the practicalities
if a friend suddenly offered her an unwanted puppy...

..and I really don't like modern vets and the whole profiteering pet insurance industry they so greedily profiteer from..