Thought for the Day (Dec 14)

Subject: Thought for the Day (Dec 14)
From: Peter T.
Date: 14 Dec 99 - 08:25 AM

"The West of which I speak is but another name for the Wild; and what I have been preparing to say is, that in Wildness is the preservation of the world." - Henry David Thoreau, "Walking"

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day (Dec 14)
From: Neil Lowe
Date: 14 Dec 99 - 11:07 AM

In light of the recent and disappointing problems with the Mars robot...I couldn't help but think that therein lies our hope for survival as a species: that if we ever have the good fortune to arrive as "transplants" to a world significantly less hospitable to us than this world has been, we will be forced to think and act conservatively and ecologically. The astronauts don't piss in their water supply, and the oxygen bottles aren't filled with industrial chlorofluorocarbons before the next shuttle mission.

As houseguests on this planet, our environment has been a gracious host, kindly forgiving us as we carelessly spilled drinks on the good carpet, broke the fine china and shattered the antique crystal. But we have worn out our welcome.

I can only imagine that the next host(if there is one)wouldn't be so accomodating or tolerant of our insults and crass manners, especially from uninvited out-of-towners. We will have to be more cordial, adapting ourselves to the customs of our new home instead of insisting our new home adapt itself to us, the latter an idea that should be as unthinkable as a North American inhabiting India and imposing a McDonald's on every streetcorner.

If our space program is all about going to other worlds to strip-mine kryptonite or process dilithium crystals, then it should be abandoned and the money spent for more rational endeavors.

Sorry, Peter T., for getting off-track here, but I think if one makes a few substitutions in your Thoreau quotation, what he said could be expanded to include the Final Frontier as well.

Thanks for stirring my thoughts yet again.

Regards, Neil (stepping off soapbox and calling down to Scotty for "more power.")

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day (Dec 14)
From: Mían
Date: 14 Dec 99 - 11:19 AM

I believe that "The West" has long been a green haven for more than just American culture. Are there not stories of an enchanted isle of eternal happiness located in the West? Thoreau helps us see how to find it.

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day (Dec 14)
From: Scotty
Date: 14 Dec 99 - 11:51 AM

I canna do it, Cap'n Neil, ma belly's so big I canna reach the control panel and now ma wig has fallen into the warp drive....AAARGH [transmission ended here]

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day (Dec 14)
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 14 Dec 99 - 12:02 PM

Neil, beautifully expressed. Many years ago a student of mine, speculating about the earth recognizing humanity as a disease and activating its immune defenses, expressed it not so well, but unforgetably, none-the-less: "When the fly in the ointmnet gets too big, the sleeping giant wakes." Jeez, I shoulda remembered that one for the Proverbs for the Next Millenium thread.

--seed

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day (Dec 14)
From: Ringer
Date: 14 Dec 99 - 12:43 PM

CS Lewis maintained that the vast interstellar (and possibly interplanetary, tho not too sure) distances were a quarantine barrier to stop us corrupting other worlds.

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day (Dec 14)
From: thosp
Date: 14 Dec 99 - 12:56 PM

Neil -- i agree!

peace(Y)thosp

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day (Dec 14)
From: Neil Lowe
Date: 14 Dec 99 - 01:15 PM

...dammit Scotty....you trashed warp drive and there ain't a "double-A"(toot-toot)"emcee-oh" for light years - I had an appointment with an Erotican sex therapist on stardate 76745463534290874and6/7 down in the red-star district of the galaxy...but we'll never make it on impulse.....

good one, --seed...you reactivated my memory banks. My apologies, but I am filching your student's mixed metaphor for personal use. I will, of course, give credit where credit is due....Thanks.

Regards, Neil

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day (Dec 14)
From: Jack (Who is called Jack)
Date: 14 Dec 99 - 01:20 PM

We can rail all we want about consumption, industry, wilderness, attitudes, etc....

We can pretend that the space program is the principal relavant detail regarding our future course (its not, and I say that as an advocate of the space program).

We are principally concerned with our own survival, and therin lies the principal problem. We believe that having children is good, that living long is good, that having plenty to eat is good, and having to work less hard is good. As long as we continue to see human life and happiness as the principal value, and thus continue to work toward prolonging life, having children, etc, then our population will continue to grow. Especially in rural/agrarian cultures where children are critical to a family's productivity, and large families are therefore needed.

The preservation and restoration of the "wilderness" of which Thoreau spoke will not come about by recycling, solar power, attitude shifts about consumption or anything like that. The thing that has to happen is massive reduction not only in the growth of the population, but a massive reduction in the human population, with a concurrent reduction in what we typically call 'The quality of life'. What does that mean? In short, it means death, and plenty of it. It means reduction in the life span, increased infant mortality, and especially a reduction in the number of people of childbearing age. Men, women and children must die in large numbers, and soon. The questions are: who, how & where? The answer to the first is, it has to happen to everyone, the answer to the second is 'any way possible', the answer to the third is everywhere.

Then, and only then, will attitude changes, and policy make a significant long term difference.

I'm not speaking as an advocate of such a thing. Just saying that population reduction has become the price of wilderness restoration, and that such a reduction will come at a price of human suffering that most of us are unable to contemplate.

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day (Dec 14)
From: Peter T.
Date: 14 Dec 99 - 04:46 PM

Thanks for all these thoughts. Just to make the point that Thoreau uses the word "Wildness" to mean much more than wilderness. He also means an attitude, a way of life which is not saturated in human goals and achievements. I suspect he thinks that if we lose that wildness (And its roots in nature and wilderness), we will lose our ability to understand some part of the human, and that will lessen us, the way losing the last of the Manx speakers, etc. would. It is not all or only about wilderness preservation: it is about preserving something wild.
yours, Peter T.