National Folk Awards 2017

Subject: RE: National Folk Awards 2017
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Apr 17 - 06:13 PM

Ahem.

I watched the show on catch-up this evening. The big-band stuff, typified by Jim Moray at the end, does nothing for me whatsoever. I thought he was straining. I've been a Shirley Collins completist for decades and her dignified and sensitive performance brought a tear to my eye. Ry Cooder was absolute genius, as was Billy Bragg on Woody. Daoiri Farrell, amazing singer, again blighted by big-band syndrome. Al Stewart, fantastic. I've just typed this and I've realised what my theme has accidentally been. Old stagers with nothing to prove carrying the day. Young bucks, a bit earnest, a bit future-career-minded, possibly a tad forced at times. Anyway, that's what I thought. Shoot me down. Don't give a monkey's mickey!

Subject: RE: National Folk Awards 2017
From: Joe Offer
Date: 10 Apr 17 - 06:18 PM

OK, so what I was wondering about, is whether the National Folk Awards and the BBC Folk Awards are the same thing. If not, can somebody tell us the difference between the two, and why at times they seem to be so controversial?
thanks.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: National Folk Awards 2017
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 10 Apr 17 - 06:28 PM

I think people are talking about the same Awards Joe

Subject: RE: National Folk Awards 2017
From: Howard Jones
Date: 11 Apr 17 - 04:18 AM

I caught the highlights show, which suffered from being badly edited to squeeze too much into too little. A more serious failure was that the vocals were too far back in the sound mix - a modern fashion which is completely inappropriate for folk music where the lyrics are everything. Despite being familiar with the ballad Jim Moray closed the show with I found it difficult to follow the story, and it was nothing to do with either his singing or the arrangement, it was simply that the vocals weren't given enough prominence in the mix. That was by no means the only example. The BBC used to have sound engineers who understood folk music, apparently no longer.

Subject: RE: National Folk Awards 2017
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Apr 17 - 04:32 AM

I just watched it on catch up... imho probably the most cack show so far...

Previous years have been variable quality, but 2017 is a drab dreary botched turn off...

Next year.. new presenters and more sympathetic editing please...

oh.. and maybe some more interesting and engaging performers... that might help.. ????


Having said that.. Shirley Collins was the only 'highlight' and deserves all the awards and her own BBC4 in performance show..

..and call me a masochist.. but was the entire full length TV broadcast live on red button this year. and if so.. any links please..???
I can't find it on youtube...

Subject: RE: National Folk Awards 2017
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Apr 17 - 04:48 AM

..oh yeah.. and that overlong extract from the transported children musical..
with the interview samples, urchin kiddie choir, and deputy headmistress narrator..

that was effin dire.. 😣

Ok enough for school and community halls, but not the Albert Hall and nationwide broadcast TV...!!!!

Subject: RE: National Folk Awards 2017
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 11 Apr 17 - 06:34 AM

You can still find the broadcast on BBC iPlayerRadio;
Wednesday 5 April
17:05 Simon Mayo Drivetime Live from the Radio 2 Folk Awards!
Live from backstage at the Royal Albert Hall with special guests and live performances.
19:30 BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017
Ry Cooder, Al Stewart, Billy Bragg and Shirley Collins perform at the annual celebration.

Subject: RE: National Folk Awards 2017
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Apr 17 - 06:45 AM

I could only find the extended radio broadcast on iplayer..

Was even screened in full on red button this year...???

Subject: RE: National Folk Awards 2017
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Apr 17 - 06:54 AM

I agree about the urchins. My buttocks have never been so tightly clenched. Their mums and dads would've been proud.

Subject: RE: National Folk Awards 2017
From: GUEST,Hootennanny
Date: 11 Apr 17 - 06:54 AM

Why didn't Billy Bragg use the tune that Woody used for "I Ain't Got No Home"? Far more interesting than the one he used. I can only guess.

Subject: RE: National Folk Awards 2017
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 11 Apr 17 - 08:27 AM

Billy's got a nice home on the cliffs at Burton Bradstock. A millionaire's pad reflecting the successful musician and songwriter that he is.

I suppose he would feel a bit stupid singing he's wife's took ill and died upon the cabin floor, etc.

Subject: RE: National Folk Awards 2017
From: GUEST,padgett
Date: 11 Apr 17 - 09:57 AM

Yes the BBC Radio 2 folk programme is aired on Wednesdays at 7pm and the

National Folk Awards being part of the BBC are broadcast on Radio 2 and

concurrently nowadays on BBC Television on the "Red Button" ~ this year

Mark Radcliffe and Julie Fowlis were Mcees/Presenters and the whole of

the UK (as it still is!!) had artists receiving awards!

The Scottish contingent did very well again ~ superb musicianship as usual ~ but a good spread geographically speaking!!

Ray

Subject: RE: National Folk Awards 2017
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 11 Apr 17 - 10:29 AM

Joe Offer -
Date: 10 Apr 17 - 06:18 PM
".. whether the National Folk Awards and the BBC Folk Awards
are the same thing"

"National Folk Awards" is not really the correct title.
BBC usually refer to them as "BBC Folk Awards"/"BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards".
imho they could be called the Smooth Operations(7digital) Folk Awards
This is a BBC page which mentions the Red Button & gives other links
http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/articles/949ded7a-3da0-4369-ac7c-ac989cafce5a

As well as producing BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards Smooth Operations(7digital) produce the BBC Radio 2 weekly folk show
http://www.bbc.co.uk/search? filter=programmes&q=The%20Folk%20Show%20with%20Mark%20Radcliffe

Radcliffe and Maconie's daily show on BBC Radio 6 Music
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0100rp6

"... long-running associations with the Cambridge Folk Festival "| Cambridge Live
https://www.cambridgelivetrust.co.uk/folk-festival
& "...Radio Festival and the Radio Academy's prestigious award ceremony."

~~~~~~~~~
"Joe Offer -
Date: 10 Apr 17 - 06:18 PM
...so controversial?"
imho... because lots of mudcat people are at the local, non profit making end whilst Panellists "...must have a professional or semi-professional connection to folk music and be reliably exposed to a wide range of folk, roots and acoustic music. "
thread.cfm?threadid=161498%26%2365533%3B#3838252

Mudcatters interests are more esoteric while Smooth Operations(7digital) have shareholders to look after and the BBC have viewer and listener numbers in mind.

And it is easier to write on the mudcat forum than it is to find the Smooth Operations or BBC email address and write to them.

~~~~~~~~~~~
R2 Folk Show & Smooth Operations contact details
Email [e-mail]
Twitter @bbcradio2 - add #folkshow to your tweet
Sms 88291 - text during show times only
[Texts will be charged at your standard message rate. Cheack with your network provider for exact costs.]
Other
Write to
The Folk Show with Mark Radcliffe, c/o Smooth Operations, PO Box 18, Dobcross, Oldham, OL3 5FS

[e-mail]

http://about.7digital.com/company/smooth-operations

Subject: RE: National Folk Awards 2017
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Apr 17 - 11:17 AM

As far as I heard the presenters didn't even credit any of the adults involved in that end of term school play musical excerpt..

How's that.. are they complete unknowns.. perhaps stage struck teachers from that school..

..or seriously well known brit folk stalwarts who were are all expected to recognise on sight....???? 🙄

Subject: RE: National Folk Awards 2017
From: GUEST,padgett
Date: 11 Apr 17 - 01:11 PM

Yes yes Smooth Operations was set up by John Leonard who had connections with BBC Radio Sheffield ~ Tony Capstick, Dave Burland and others ~ as a producer and of course Mike Harding who preceded Mark Radcliffe

Smooth Ops prog comes from BBC at Salford I believe ~ there has been a folk programme many years with Jim Lloyd (years ago) and Country meets Folk which included Wally Whyton

Julie Fowlis is a Gaelic speaking singer and whistle player ~ absolutely brilliant pity I can't speak Gaelic and has mceed the Awards for a year or two now!

Ray

Subject: RE: National Folk Awards 2017
From: The Sandman
Date: 11 Apr 17 - 01:12 PM

" Smooth Operations(7digital) have shareholders to look after and the BBC have viewer and listener numbers in mind."
Correct.

Subject: RE: National Folk Awards 2017
From: GUEST,padgett
Date: 12 Apr 17 - 03:24 AM

Quite so Dick and ~~?

Ray

Subject: RE: National Folk Awards 2017
From: The Sandman
Date: 12 Apr 17 - 09:34 AM

Ray, Make of this what you want ,here is their spin about themselves
Smooth Operations is an award-winning production company which delivers the highest quality live events and programming across every platform, including radio, television and online.

Specialising in content and event production, our portfolio of work encompasses daily, weekly and one-off radio programmes, outside broadcasts, concert coverage, stage management, podcasts and our own record label, Delphonic.

Subject: RE: National Folk Awards 2017
From: GUEST,padgett
Date: 12 Apr 17 - 12:35 PM

Are they not?

Ray

Subject: RE: National Folk Awards 2017
From: The Sandman
Date: 12 Apr 17 - 01:08 PM

They organise an event which some people take seriously, what do you think of it Raymond ?
Do you think it is as an important priority as the need to improve standards of singing in folk clubs, something that Alex Campbell was talking about at the Jon Snow pub 50 years ago, along with Ewan MacColl, Bob Davenport, A L Lloyd.
I met you at Whitby festival 50 years ago, you appeared to be there for the love of the music not for financial gain, God bless you Raymond Padgett.

Subject: RE: National Folk Awards 2017
From: The Sandman
Date: 12 Apr 17 - 01:28 PM

"Awards shows mainly publicise the people giving the awards" AlanAlda

Subject: RE: National Folk Awards 2017
From: GUEST,Morris-ey
Date: 12 Apr 17 - 03:33 PM

Dick

Given that you despise folk awards shows, would never be invited to appear on one and, if invited, would no doubt rudely decline the invitation, why do you waste your and everyone else's time in continuing to post so vitriolically about them?

Repetition does not strengthen your argument it makes you look envious, bitter and foolish.

Subject: RE: National Folk Awards 2017
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Apr 17 - 03:47 PM

.... and Alan Alda could well be wrong.

Subject: RE: National Folk Awards 2017
From: The Sandman
Date: 12 Apr 17 - 04:17 PM

God bless you Morriss-ey, may you enjoy Easter.
Easter was the time Jesus rose from the dead.
Have you ever tried to carry out Christian principles Morriss_ey. Jesus forgives Cowards, he forgives his enemies.
Morriss_ey, I am a christian I forgive you for many your faults,and your unpleasant behaviour on this forum

Subject: RE: National Folk Awards 2017
From: Long Firm Freddie
Date: 12 Apr 17 - 04:19 PM

Another quote, via BrainyQuote, form 6 time Emmy and Golden Globe award winner Alan Alda:

Awards can give you a tremendous amount of encouragement to keep getting better, no matter how young or old you are. Alan Alda
Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/a/alanalda597637.html

LFF

Subject: RE: National Folk Awards 2017
From: GUEST,Cj
Date: 12 Apr 17 - 04:33 PM

Alan Alda wasn't really a folk musician, although he did have terribly greasy hair and seemed easily irritated, so maybe he was.

Subject: RE: National Folk Awards 2017
From: GUEST,padgett
Date: 13 Apr 17 - 04:14 AM

Yes I have been interested in songs and collecting them for a long time Dick ~ started at Barnsley Civic Centenary rooms listening to the booked acts of the day! All stars of time who must have had summat to entertain people with in whatever they did likes of Tony Capstick, Tony Rose, Pete Coe, Nick Jones had done their research, and like others started to gleen the details of what they were singing from the sleeve notes ~ then Whitby ff and EFDSS buying the song books ~ still can't really read music ~ joining in with songs in the bar ~ Social History ~ of all sorts of course and leading on to eventually the instrumental side in music sessions

But without those fore runners Dick to provide inspiration and show others the way I think I and others would be in a different place!

I have been able to sift through masses of songs in order to select and sing songs which have some sort of appeal or attraction, an Art form I believe ~ which expresses all of the human emotions ~ the scene is full of people who have many different reasons for being there ~ a living, a pastime, a semi professional source of income and those who have spent many years perfecting their playing of fiddles, melodeons, whistles etc ~ not to mention the dancers!!

So awards well anything to bring to the attention the fact that all this work is going on and people are out there every day to do what they do ~ a credit to those singing and playing where ever and to those who just do it for the love!!

Ray ~ me lud

Subject: RE: National Folk Awards 2017
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Apr 17 - 06:01 AM

padgett - in the context of what you have just posted...

The BBC / Smooth Fops annual folk awards is a trite embarrassment
of corporate bourgeois folk elite back slapping & scratching, arse licking, and hollow vanity...

...even more meaningless and much less fun and entertainment than the Eurovision Song Contest or Crufts.... 😜

Subject: RE: National Folk Awards 2017
From: GUEST,padgett
Date: 13 Apr 17 - 08:41 AM

Well I did watch the full thing on the Red button and later on the shorter version ~ surely artists should have the recognition they deserve?

Yes it probably does fall into the category of the usual Awards type ceremonies ~ not sure it does yet come under the category of full Concert style affairs ~ someone would have to pay for the acts to perform!!

Ray

Subject: RE: National Folk Awards 2017
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Apr 17 - 09:01 AM

oops... I posted this in the wrong thread yesterday...
it was meant to be in here...
               
                     ====================


whoever was responsible for editing the highlights show needs to rethink his/her career...

piss poor shoddy work...

school kids doing education video projects would hand in a better finished production..

Subject: RE: National Folk Awards 2017
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Apr 17 - 01:12 PM

"Subject: RE: National Folk Awards 2017
From: GUEST,Hootennanny - PM
Date: 11 Apr 17 - 06:54 AM

Why didn't Billy Bragg use the tune that Woody used for "I Ain't Got No Home"? Far more interesting than the one he used. I can only guess."         
Woody genuinely wanted to change society,I am not sure what are the motives of Billy Bragg, however songwriters sometimes change things so that they can get copyright and make money, dont know if this is the case with Bragg, IF it is it is an example of commercialism to the detriment of artistic merit. I agree with the politics he espouses however he is[imo] a shit singer, I would rather listen to Joan Baez or Pete Coe