BS: UK General Election

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Apr 17 - 03:03 PM

"I thought that's what the Brexit Crusaders blamed OBAMA for and thus favored Trump?"
Go read the latest developments
"if you miss me at the back of the - queue"
When Obama was in charge Britain was still part of Europe
"Now President Putin is one of the most popular leaders ever in Russia."
The most popular leader in Rusdsia was Stalin - by miles
Both were/are POLITICAL THUGS
Hitler was pretty popular
You judge leaders by their records, not their popularity
Jim Carroll

Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 30 Apr 17 - 03:45 PM

isn't it just being realistic Steve - we can't carry on like this indefinitely?

unless you believe Corbyn can win.

its a bit the ads for the superman movie - you'll believe a man can fly...

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: Teribus
Date: 30 Apr 17 - 05:54 PM

Ehmmmm No Shaw my post is not a list of excuses - it largely represents in chronological order a series of facts as opposed to the imagined reasons contained in your rather vapid contribution.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: Jack Campin
Date: 30 Apr 17 - 05:56 PM

This could be important if it turns out to have substance:

https://skwawkbox.org/2017/04/30/theresa-may-under-investigation-re-brexit-profits/

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Apr 17 - 06:50 PM

Then produce facts to contradict what I've said, Teribus. Sarky comments are easy. Evidence is a whole nother issue.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Apr 17 - 07:48 PM

..and that's not forgetting the contribution of the selfish Scots Nationalists victory
virtually guaranteeing a perpetual tory domination of our tiny islands...

I can see the risk that it could risk a perpetual Tory domination of Southern Britain, but hardly of "our tiny islands" taken as a whole. Scottish independence would initiallu be likely to involve permanent rule on the basis of a relatively small proportion of votes, but I doubt if that would be accepted permanently by the Southern British public. I think it likely that a Scottish secession would trigger bitter anger among many towards the English party seen as primarily responsible for bringing this about, and demands for constitutional reform.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 01 May 17 - 11:30 AM

take the penguins out and it soon gets very boring....

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 May 17 - 12:20 PM

Taking a penguin out can get very boring...

all they want to do is go to sushi restaurants...

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: akenaton
Date: 05 May 17 - 03:02 AM

....and they talk a lot of waddle!

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: Allan Conn
Date: 06 May 17 - 04:13 AM

It is absurd to suggest that people voting SNP in Scotland are somehow selfish and to blame for the Tory Party ruling in the UK! When was the last time the election results in Scotland made one iota of difference as to who had a majority in the UK parliament? I suspect it must be at least approaching a half century anyway! Surely the rest of the UK are quite adult and fully capable of choosing their government or voting system?

A post up thread also suggests that "the Scottish gvt" gave a commitment that there would not be another referendum for at least a generation. Despite that being oft repeated it is not actually true.

Salmond as First Minister often used the phrase "once in a generation, perhaps once in a lifetime opportunity" when campaigning for a Yes vote. Saying you may not get this chance again is clearly not the same as promising that you won't ask the question again.

On the Andrew Marr show prior to the referendum Marr pressed Salmond as to if that was a commitment! To which Salmond said it was only his 'personal view' that these opportunities don't come along that often. Vote Yes now or you won't get another chance for a while is not a firm commitment to not ask the question again - it is simply a better campaign tactic than saying "never mind if you vote No now you can change your mind in a year or two".

Likewise Sturgeon as deputy leader during the campaign used the same phrase - but when pressed she included the caveat that though it was her belief that there wouldn't be another vote for a while it did not bind future parliaments or generations. Remember people did tend to think that a No vote would seriously dent the SNP. The two leaders probably did think that if they lost then they wouldn't even have the opportunity to ask the question again at least for a while. No-one predicted that on the back of a No vote the popularity of the SNP would increase and that Labour would plummet in Scotland.

When she became leader the Scottish Tories continually pressed Sturgeon as to under what conditions there could be another vote - so in the 2016 election manifesto the SNP laid it out in black and white and it was repeated often. They would only look at another vote if there was a clear and consistent support for independence in the polls (though not in the manifesto Sturgeon had mentioned a figure of perhaps about 60% support) - or if there was a significant material change to Scotland's position within the UK and the example they gave was if Scotland is dragged out of the EU against the will of the Scottish electorate. Now various people on here may not like, or may not agree with that, but the facts are that the Scottish people gave the SNP a massive mandate in that election. So bringing forth the vote at Holyrood was them keeping an electoral promise.

There was no official government commitment not to have another vote - but there was an actual official commitment by the party in their manifesto to have another vote should certain circumstances arise.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: akenaton
Date: 06 May 17 - 05:41 AM

That's quite true Allan, but I still think that the Party have boxed themselves into a corner by supporting continued membership of an EU which appears to be hanging on an increasingly shoogly peg.

As a nationalist, I feel that it would be better to throw our weight behind Mrs May and try to achieve the best outcome possible for the UK. The pragmatic course of action would be to set up the new trading regime as a member of the UK leaving the Independence issue till a later date when temperatures had cooled or perhaps when the EU itself had disintegrated?

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 May 17 - 05:51 AM

Leaving the EU is proving an Almighty Fuck-up all round Ake - for everybody
It is now down to damage limitation
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: Allan Conn
Date: 06 May 17 - 05:54 AM

Everyone is different Ake but sorry I've never voted Tory and that is not likely to change - even though my better half is a Tory voter and even works for them!

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 May 17 - 07:13 AM

The EU and many in UK want it to be a fuck up.
No reason why it should be.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: DMcG
Date: 06 May 17 - 08:16 AM

Why do you say many people want it to fail? I expect it to, but there is no way I want it to. And the reasons why I think it will fail are well known to all and sundry; we mainly differ in how likely we think the various outcomes are and in the long and short terms effects. But please, do not confuse expections of problwms with a desire to see them.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 May 17 - 08:45 AM

"No reason why it should be."
Not "should be" Keith - it is
Go look at the rise in racism
Go look at the instability of teh economy
Go look at the problems with Scotland threatening to break up the U.K.
Go look at the massive border problems that have emerged with the border in Northern Ireland
You look at the fact that even Trump has turned his back on Britain and is favouring trade with Europe
Go look at the problems Brits living in Euorpe are facing - especially considering Mayfly's farting around about Europeans living in Britain
It's a mess Keith and both politicians and businessmen are having to come to terms with that fact
One giant, xenophobically-based fuck-up by a minority of the British people who allowed themselves to believe that a country without manufacturing industries could "stand on their own feet" and long as you got rid of the foreigners.
A classic ploy by a system on the skids - blame fsomeone else
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 May 17 - 08:48 AM

"It is absurd to suggest that people voting SNP in Scotland are somehow selfish and to blame for the Tory Party ruling in the UK!"

errrrmmm... not a Scots Nationalist SNP voter by any chance, are you...??? 😜

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: bobad
Date: 06 May 17 - 09:06 AM

The big question is who does Putin want as PM.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: akenaton
Date: 06 May 17 - 09:13 AM

"liberal" ideology has no connection to the creation of a healthy economy. It is my view that the "remoaners" are by and large driven by such an ideology.....in short they are a fucking menace to themselves an the rest of society.   I have never voted Conservative, but I feel these are very important times for all the countries which comprise the UK. we need to think seriously about the long term effects of using cheap immigrant labour to support our economy instead of investing in our own people.....the time when condemning them to a life on benefits was an option is long past and the next generation will not suffer in silence......perhaps Mr Powell's words would have come back to haunt us all had it not been for the saving grace of The democratic Brexit vote.

Getting back and I MEAN back to the "liberals" who write here like Jim and Co, I am reminded of the famous quote from Miss Ann Coulter.

"If "liberals" were prevented from ever again calling Republicans/conservatives "Dumb", they would be robbed of half their arguments. To be sure they would still have, Racist, Fascist, Homophobe, Ugly and a few other highly nuanced arguments in the quiver...... but the loss of "Dumb" would almost cripple them" :0)

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 May 17 - 09:47 AM

"I have never voted Conservative"
Too left wing, no doubt
Your failure to respond to any of the points is proof enough that you have no answer to them and your consistent 'Ann Coulter' definition of "liberal" places you where you are on the extremist spectrum
Britain can never become self supporting without a manufacturing industry, and all the drowned refugee children in the world won't make that any less a fact.
I'm not in any shape or form a "Liberal" in anything other than my humanist outlook on life.
You on the otehr hand.... well, youv'e already referred to your hatred of homosexuals.
Nothing humanist about that one
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: Allan Conn
Date: 06 May 17 - 10:21 AM

Yeagh of course I am PFR but honestly the Scots only sent one Tory MP to Westminster. What party the other 58 are makes no difference to the Tory majority as they are all opposition MPs. Likewise all of the Blair/Brown governments had a clear majority of seats in English constituencies. The idea that Labour can't win without Scottish seats is wrong as proved by historical results - and the idea that the English can't be trusted to govern themselves without the help of Scots members is surely daft and a tad insulting to the English public.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 06 May 17 - 10:31 AM

Now that Abbott has proved just what everybody already knew already, that she is a complete idiot, perhaps she might take the hint - but she won't I'm sure!

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 May 17 - 10:38 AM

Allan - tories forever depend and thrive on 'divide and rule' - as simple as that...

A fragmented divisive opposition is forever f@cked - as simple as that...

Scotland has done the tories dirty work of clearing out Labour..
So how long before the tories seize the opportunity to eventually clear out the SNP...???

..what, the pernicious process has already started with that nice young charismatic Ruth Elizabeth Davidson...????? 🙄

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 May 17 - 10:48 AM

I am reminded of the famous quote from Miss Ann Coulter.

And regarding Ann Coulter, I am reminded of:

"All this was inspired by the principle — which is quite true within itself— that in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods."

                        — Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, vol. I, ch. X

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: Allan Conn
Date: 06 May 17 - 10:50 AM

Again though do the arithmetic it made no difference to the Tory majority whether the SNP had their 56 Scottish seats or whether Labour had them. As for the clearing out the SNP. Don't believe the hype the SNP actually improved their local election results from last time. They are now the biggest party in all of Scotland's cities and they have more seats in real terms and as a percentage of the total seats than they had last time. Despite what the BBC site is claiming. The Tory gains have come from former Labour voters!

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 May 17 - 11:00 AM

Jim,
You to Ake, well, youv'e already referred to your hatred of homosexuals.

Actually he never has.
Again you make false claims about what people have said and never give an actual quote.

Jim, you may think that Bexit is already fucked up but most of the electorate do not.
Do you have access to information that the country does not?

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 May 17 - 11:12 AM

Allan - but it's not just seats and numbers - it's not that simplistic...

Factor in all the constant persistent anti labour rhetoric from Scots & Welsh Nationalists over the last decade,
add that to all the other usual non stop right wing anti labour propaganda bloating in the Nation's media, social internet, and bar room chatter...

..ideological warfare at it's text-book primest example...

Tories are very winningly self satisfied at reaping the harvest of floating voting easily swayed demographics of the UK electorate...

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 May 17 - 11:21 AM

"Actually he never has. "
Read what he wrote Keith
"Racist, Fascist, Homophobe, "
Now - let's have an apology - stupid little man!
"but most of the electorate do not"
The majority of "the electorate did not vote for Berexit - a large slice of them didn't bother to vote so claiming "most" if made-up rubbish.
Brexirt was squeezed through on the narrowest of margins and until people get a chance for a second vote we'll never know how that vote will stand the test of time.
Do you have any information the est of us do not have?
Elections don't make up for a fucked up economy, a divided nation and all the other things on my list that you refuse to respond to,
It got through on Xenophobic hatred and the party who put in the most effort to get it through self-destructed almost immediately - probably the only good thing to have come out of the whole farrago (bearing Nigel the Nutter in mind, not a bad word in the circumstances)
If you haven't anything intelligent to say, perhaps you have a brighter relative to post for you!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: Allan Conn
Date: 06 May 17 - 12:14 PM

Hmmm I'm not sure there has been a constant persistant anti-Labour rhetoric from the SNP. Most of their rhetoric is aimed at the Tory Party. Yes there has been some but probably not as bad as the Scottish Labour anti SNP rhetoric. The Labour party in Scotland simply hates the SNP for various things but mostly for being popular and taking their place. Actually the Nats openly said at the last UK election that they would work with the UK Labour Party on matters where they agreed. It was Labour who rebuffed that idea.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 May 17 - 06:47 PM

The SNP have replaced Labour in Scotland. So long as the United Kingdom lasts, that's an Anti-Tory bloc in Westminster as solid as Scottish Labour ever were, and rather more to the left of the Labour MPs they replaced, and well to the left of the anti-Corbyn clique who have been plotting on the backbench during this Parliament.
......
Still a chance in this election, if the majority of people who don't trust the Tories can be panicked into realizing the only thing to do in this election is go out and vote for whatever candidate in their constituency is best placed to beat the Tory. Even if that's a Liberal. Or of course SNP or Plaid Cymru.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 May 17 - 09:14 PM

errrrrrrm... but diverse fragmented regional 'Anti-Tory blocs' do not make a coherent unified opposition capable of forming an effective functional government.....??? 🤔


..in some ways I feel like a small child having to remind grown ups that despite being so very clever they have lost sight of the obvious...

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: akenaton
Date: 07 May 17 - 02:13 AM

Well said PFR. The EU negotiations are much too important for us to start playing childish games.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 May 17 - 02:47 AM

"The SNP have replaced Labour in Scotland"
A similar thing has happened in Ireland
In order to maintain some hold as part of a coalition, Labour moved further to the right, became indistinguishable from the two major parties - and self-destructed, losing masses of traditional voters.
Everything it has gained down the decades disappeared overnight.
The proportional representation system allowed smaller parties to step into the breech with genuinely alternative policies on immediate issues, but the long term gains were made by Sinn Fein, who are now a major contender
Labour continues to shoot itself in the foot by trying to put water charges protesters in jail - belt-and-braces suicide.
The right wing establishment of the British Labour Party needs to learn the lessons and allow for new/old policies to produce a genuine alternative policy
" The EU negotiations are much too important for us to start playing childish games."
You mean like the one May has played by accusing Europe of trying to influence the British election?
That was Party polickng in the extreme - utterly ruthless.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: DMcG
Date: 07 May 17 - 03:42 AM

Brexit too important for party games? Yes it is. Unfortunately that is the only way any party can think of it. I was chatting to someone a while ago about patriotism since this os often claimed as well. I claimed that when an action benefits both your self interest and the country it could be done through patriotism or self interest and there is no way to tell. You may even delude yourself. In an Occams razor sort of way, the concrete self interest is probably a more ppwerful force than the abstract patriotism.   So to be a cleaely patriotic act your self interest and the countries interests must be opposed and you must act against ypur self interest to the benefit of the country. That is why a soldier can be patriotic as being killed or severely wounded is not on their personal interest. You could defend higher taxes on the grounds of patriotism if you are personally worse off but think it is right thing to do; you cannot defend a change that lowers taxes for you in that way.

So all that chat is leading up to this: politician, name me something you are striving for in Britain's interests that is opposed to your individual and party interest. If you can't you cannot demonstrate you have any stronger motivation than self interest.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: Allan Conn
Date: 07 May 17 - 04:23 AM

We're just going to have to disagree on that PFR as obviously we don't see the things the same way on this. For me Labour have no God given right to be the party of choice of the centre left or the left. There are other valid choices. Likewise I don't see why it is assumed to be a good thing that one party have a dominance in parliament based on what is always a minority of the vote. Maybe here in Scotland we are just a wee bit more used to the ideas of parties working together on issues despite the deep divisions. The previous SNP administration had an overall majority - but that was very unusual as the system was kind of designed to avoid majorities. The first SNP administration - and the current one - did not have a majority. Both administrations have worked without formal coalitions too. There is no reason why either a formal coalition at Westmister or just parties working together on an issue to issue basis need be an inferior gvt to one with a clear majority. I mean I was not a fan of the Tory/Lib Dem coalition gvt but I think they were preferable to this Tory majority gvt.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: akenaton
Date: 07 May 17 - 04:32 AM

Brexit is no longer a choice "D", the path forward will be determined by the negotiations. We need to be united and strong, we shall be opposed by a cabal of unelected thugs who will stop at nothing to protect their self serving interests. Dreaming and whining from within will only strengthen them.
I have no doubt we will have to leave without a "deal", but that has positives as well as negatives, a chance from some real debate on the future society we want in the UK or the individual nations which comprise the UK.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: DMcG
Date: 07 May 17 - 04:42 AM

A long time ago now I heard Robin Cook saying a problem with our system is that it yo-yos on policy. Party A enforces a policy because it can, then on the next change of government tbey work flat out to dismantle A in favour of B. Nezt change of government B is phased out in favour of A. Or more likely some variation A*. The result is an utter mess. And, he said, he was sick of that idea of a strong government. A truly strong government is one where changes stay implemented, and by and large that is because they have been worked out by cross party agreement in some form. Strong majorities reduce the need for such agreements and in the long term can therefore end up achieving less of perminance.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 07 May 17 - 04:45 AM

perhaps YOU couldn't distinguish between the tories and Blairite type Labour government JIm - but people dependent on the health service sure as hell could, and can.

i know i've said this before, and i hope you won't be offended - but believe me when you are dealing with these realities every day - my god - you notice a difference between labour and conservative healthcare.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: DMcG
Date: 07 May 17 - 04:46 AM

We differ on the nature of the separation, ake. To me, saying Brexit is agreed is like saying a piece of cloth is red. It is absolutely correct at one level. But there are a heck of a lot of alternatives reds.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 May 17 - 05:11 AM

"my god - you notice a difference between labour and conservative healthcare"

which is why we choose to pay for private medical insurance and I still work at nearly 71 to pay for it, which enabled immediate emergency treatment for my wife 4 weeks ago for dangerously infected leg ulcers. Thankfully sepsis was prevented!

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: akenaton
Date: 07 May 17 - 06:01 AM

Sorry "D" but the leaders of the cartel will never relinquish insistence on "Freedom of movement" and without some control on immigration from the EU our society will continue to disintegrate, youth training will never be properly addressed, housing will be a pipe dream for our poorest young folks infrastructure and public services will continue to decay.

Impasse!!.......forward with Theresa, ......for one night only. :0)

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: Stu
Date: 07 May 17 - 06:19 AM

"our society will continue to disintegrate, youth training will never be properly addressed, housing will be a pipe dream for our poorest young folks infrastructure and public services will continue to decay."

The decline in our services, infrastructure and the inequalities present in our society are not the fault of the EU or immigrants, but the result of government policy, in this case austerity. A vote for the tories, the ultimate establishment party is a vote in favour of pursuing the polices of the last seven years, not least of which is the continued running down of the NHS and the welfare state, the greatest political achievement ever and directly born of out of the desire to alleviate the suffering of ordinary people following the horrors of war; our families literally fought and died so our politicians could do what's best for the people; that seems like a pipe dream these days, and there are no politicians of the stature of Bevan et al, certainly not in the tory party.

Our hope lies in our youth, that they (who were overwhelmingly pro-EU and thankfully an outward-looking bunch) will vote and curb the disaster that these old white establishment men are visiting on them. Labour could win if they mobilise and vote ion enough numbers; they at least have the wit to see past the personalities and consider the policies.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 May 17 - 06:33 AM

Read what he wrote Keith

I thought I had.
If he said that, QUOTE HIM!

If you haven't anything intelligent to say, perhaps you have a brighter relative to post for you!

Not nice Jim.
I am not saying that you are wrong, just that most of the electorate do not agree with you, and I refer to now not to the referendum result.

Once again you think you know more about life here than people who live here.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 07 May 17 - 06:44 AM

get real - 'youth' by and large couldn't be fucked to vote.
those that were asked hadn't read any of the arguments about brexit and seemed to think they wouldn't be allowed to go abroad. 'outward looking' - most of them can't find the off switch on their x-box.

if your great hope for the future is those gormless bastards, we really are up shit creek. and if the gang of abusive 'neil characters' Corbyn has recruited to the labour party is your great vision forget it - no one young or old is going to vote for it.

only poor bloody labour voters like me. wake up! everyone else has buggered off and left the theatre!

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 May 17 - 07:18 AM

"If he said that, QUOTE HIM!"
I did Keith - here 'tis again if you had prooblem the first time
"Racist, Fascist, Homophobe, "
Now kindly fuck off - this is the last time Im responding to your repetitive idiocy, it's naused up threads for far too long
"Not nice Jim."
See above
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 May 17 - 07:57 AM

"get real - 'youth' by and large couldn't be fucked to vote."
You need to "get real" Al
As things
s stand at present, it doesn't matter whether Labour win votes or not - unless they seriously change their policies to present a real alternative rather than tow sides of the same coin, it doesn't matter who is in power
Blair probably did more damage to the Labour party than any other leader - he formalised the long-term sell-out and then went on to commit war crimes in Britain's name
What is happening internally in the Labour Party is a struggle between the 'sellers-outers' and those see the need for genuine change.
I have no idea if Corbyn is the one to bring about those changes, but if it's going to be done, it's going to take time to repair the damage.
Without change, we may as well let the politicians get on with it and look elsewhere to defend ourselves from the crumbling situation
Europe is merely a stop-gap - a combination of countries attempting st stave of the worst excesses of a predatory system prowling around for fresh victims as a group - Greece was an example of how it is quite likely to turn on its own if the situation demands.
Within the E.U., we at least have a say in its running - outside, we have nothing
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: DMcG
Date: 07 May 17 - 08:17 AM

I have just spent 90 minutes with my eldest offsprint discussing the history of Algeria since 1830 to present day and to some extent how that affects France's current attitudes. The EU free movement of people arises much from theories of economics than individual rights and, founding principle or not, I would not assume "clarifications" could not be agreed. It is also evident that the overwhelming vote in favour of the Greek government stood for nothing when dealing with the Greek financial crisis. So I see no obvious reason why an overwhelming win for the Conservatives helps in the EU negotiations, though it makes life much easier for the government to get its domestic agenda through. (I was interested in Teribus' three advantages for May in winning big, and two were about silencing opponents, with his first point within her own party.) But what does seem obvious is that opening a discussion by declaring those who you are negotiating with are untrustworthy is not likely to be in your own best interests.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 May 17 - 08:17 AM

Jim dear, he was being ironic.
He was not admitting to being a fascist and a racist and a homophobe!

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: akenaton
Date: 07 May 17 - 08:44 AM

Thanks Keith, but don't waste your time trying to educate pork.
Jim is a desperate character in every sense of the word.
Most people here are smart enough to understand irony and to have formed opinions on other members over the years. I have never had any pm's from member alleging that I hate homosexuals, or people of other races.....personal hatred is not on my itinerary, but I will argue vociferously on ideas and behaviours which are negative politically or socially.

Jim fits rather neatly into Miss Coulter's definition of "liberal" :0)

An Ideologue with no coherent ideas.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General Election
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 07 May 17 - 09:31 AM

'Blair probably did more damage to the Labour party than any other leader '

he got elected three times and it would have been four times if the left wing wing fuckwits hadn't tipped him the black spot. rather like Theresa May in the tory party - a face that the public like is a very strong card in your hand.

The wars would have happened anyway. And the opposition would been up the yanks jaxi, like a rat up a drain pipe - as well you know. Blair was just trying to keep out of the trouble Wilson got into when he told the Yanks to piss off over Vietnam.

Labour looked electable all the time Blair was in charge and its been downhill all the way ever since.
Brown, Ed Bollocks, and now Complete Bollocks...