DTStudy: Turn Ye to Me

Subject: DTStudy: Turn Ye to Me
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 Apr 17 - 03:49 AM

This is an edited DTStudy thread, and all messages posted here are subject to editing and deletion.
This thread is intended to serve as a forum for corrections and annotations for the Digital Tradition song named in the title of this thread.

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Anybody know anything about the origins or other versions of this song? I'm building a database to supplement the Rise Up Singing Songbook. I'm reputed to know all the songs in the book, but I keep coming across songs in the book that I know nothing about. Today was "Turn Ye to Me." Here's what I found about the song on a blog titled A Clerk of Oxford:

This is a song called 'Turn ye to me', by John Wilson (1785-1854), a Scottish poet who wrote under the pseudonym Christopher North (and who was, I see, a Magdalen man). You can hear the lilting tune here. Apparently "Mhairi dhu" means "Mary dear" - but I can't vouch for that or anything; my Gaelic is of the non-existent variety.


The stars are shining cheerily, cheerily,
Horo, Mhairi dhu, turn ye to me.
The sea mew is moaning drearily, drearily,
Horo, Mhairi dhu, turn ye to me.

Cold is the stormwind that ruffles his breast
But warm are the downy plumes lining his nest
Cold blows the storm there,
Soft falls the snow there,
Horo, Mhairi dhu, turn ye to me.


The waves are dancing merrily, merrily,
Horo, Mhairi dhu, turn ye to me.
The seabirds are wailing wearily, wearily,
Horo, Mhairi dhu, turn ye to me.

Hushed be thy moaning, lone bird of the sea;
Thy home on the rocks is a shelter to thee;
Thy home is the angry wave,
Mine but the lonely grave
Horo, Mhairi dhu, turn ye to me.

I found the MIDI at Robokopp and other Websites. I don't know where it came from originally.

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Click to play (joeweb)

Subject: RE: Origins: Turn Ye to Me
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 Apr 17 - 04:04 AM

Here are the Digital Tradition lyrics:

TURN YE TO ME

The stars are burning cheerily, cheerily
Ho-ro Mhai-ri-dhu, turn ye to me
The seamew is moaning drearily, drearily
Ho-ro Mhai-ri-dhu, turn ye to me
Cold is the stormwind that ruffles his breast
But warm are the downy plumes lining his nest
Cold blows the storm there, soft falls the snow there
Ho-ro Mhai-ri-dhu, turn ye to me

The waves are dancing merrily, merrily
Ho-ro Mhai-ri-dhu, turn ye to me
The seabirds are wailing wearily, wearily
Ho-ro Mhai-ri-dhu, turn ye to me
Hushed be thy moaning, lone bird of the sea
Thy home on the rocks is a shelter to thee
Thy house the angry wave, mine but the lonely grave
Ho-ro Mhai-ri-dhu, turn ye to me

words by Christopher North in 1816. tune ancient
sung by Gordon Bok on Seal Djiril
@animal
filename[ TURNYEME
TUNE FILE: TURNYEME
CLICK TO PLAY
SOF

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Here's the Traditional Ballad Index entry on this song:

Turn Ye To Me

DESCRIPTION: "The stars are shining cheerily, cheerily, Horo, Mhairi Dhu, turn ye to me. The seamew is moaning drearily, drearily...." "Hushed be thy moaning, lone bird of the sea.... Thy home is the angry wave, mine but the lonely grave...."
AUTHOR: Words: John Wilson ("Christopher North")
EARLIEST DATE: reportedly written 1816
KEYWORDS: love separation bird
FOUND IN:
REFERENCES (2 citations):
DT, TURNYEME*
ADDITIONAL: cf. Kenneth Norman MacDonald, "The Gesto Collection of Highland Music," 1895 (reprinted 1997 by Llanerch Publishers), p. 19, "Ho Ro Mhairi Dhu" (1 Gaelic text, 1 tune)
Roud #23557
NOTES: This song by Christopher North was beautifully recorded by Gordon Bok; although I am far from sure it is traditional, I've included it on that basis. The interesting question is the tune. The Gesto Collection of Highland Music has a Gaelic tune, "Ho Ro Mhairi Dhu," or "Black Mary" (i.e. "dark-haired Mary"). It doesn't appear to be the same song, but the form implies that it might have been the original of the tune. Or might not, of course. - RBW
Last updated in version 3.2
File: DTturnye

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I gather this is the same song identified by the National Library of Scotland as "The Sea Mew":

http://www.nls.uk/collections/music/songindex/fullrecord.cfm?searcher=%AC&idnum=339

Anybody have an earlier source of this song? What I've found so far is this 1898 sheet music at the University of Virginia:

http://search.lib.virginia.edu/catalog/u5184089

-Joe-

Subject: RE: DTStudy: Turn Ye to Me
From: Jack Campin
Date: 19 Apr 17 - 07:46 AM

"Dhu" is "black" (in this context, dark-haired) not "dear".

It's common in collections around 1800, especially in separately published song sheets (which are never indexed very well).

Try Charles Gore's Scottish Music Index (you have to subscribe but I think it's free) for the first known version of the tune - probably Patrick Macdonald in the 1780s? North's version was first published in book form in Alexander Campbell's "Albyn's Anthology" of 1816.

BTW it's KEITH Norman Macdonald, but he's pretty irrelevant to the history of this one.

Subject: RE: DTStudy: Turn Ye to Me
From: leeneia
Date: 19 Apr 17 - 09:10 AM

Thanks, all, for the lyrics and the tune.

That tune moves up and down the scale so much that It would be a good song for a beginner learning an instrument. As for the origin, 1816 is far enough back for me.

Subject: RE: DTStudy: Turn Ye to Me
From: GUEST,Rory
Date: 18 Nov 20 - 08:09 PM

Turn Ye to Me

Originally titled: "The Sea Mew"

By John Wilson (1785-1854)
Published in Alexander Campbell's "Albyn's Anthology", 1816, p.54


The one line refrain "Ho ro Mhairi dhu', turn ye to me", is taken from the refrain "Ho ro Mhairi dhu' ! tionndaidh rium" in the song titled "Ho ro Mhairi dhu". The remaining text of both songs are different.



THE stars are all burning chearily, chearily,
Ho ro Mhairi dhu', turn to me !
The sea-mew is mourning drearily, drearily,
Ho ro Mhairi dhu', turn to me !
High up is his home, on the cliff's naked breast,
But warm is her plumage that blesseth his nest !
The ice-winds ne'er blow there,
And soft falls the snow there,
Ho ro Mhairi dhu', turn to me !

Oh ! once smiled my dwelling chearily, chearily,
Ho ro Mhairi dhu', turn to me !
Tho' wild waves were swelling drearily, drearily,
Ho ro Mhairi dhu', turn to me !
In the rock-girdled bay, as I anchored my skiff,
A sweet voice would sing from the top of the cliff ;
E'er the last notes were over,
She sprang to her lover, oh !
Ho ro Mhairi dhu', turn to me !

The desert is sounding drearily, drearily,
Ho ro Mhairi dhu', turn to me !
But the red deer is bounding chearily, chearily,
Ho ro Mhairi dhu', turn to me !
Away' to his lair in the forest so deep.
Where his hind with her fair fawns is lying asleep,
On green mossy pillow,
Like summer sea-billow,
Ho ro Mhairi dhu', turn to me !

Oh ! green rose our shealing, cheerily, chearily,
Ho ro Mhairi dhu', turn to me !
Thro' trees half concealing, dreamily, dreamily,
Ho ro Mhairi dhu', turn to me !
At night, like a deer thro' the forest I flew,
Till I saw the tall smoke-wreathe in heav'n so blue,
On the soft tender lawn there,
My sweet hind and fawn there,
Ho ro Mhairi dhu', turn to me !

To his nest, thro' winds roaring drearily, drearily,
Ho ro Mhairi dhu', turn to me !
The sea mew is soaring chearily, chearily,
Ho ro Mhairi dhu', turn to me !
He sits in that nest by his love's downy breast !
But where is the bosom so oft I have prest ?
Her plumes torn and dim, oh !
And hush'd that sweet hymn, oh !
Ho ro Mhairi dhu', turn to me !

The wild-deer is flying chearily, chearily,
Ho ro Mhairi dhu', turn to me !
His hind he sees lying drearily, drearily,
Ho ro Mhairi dhu', turn to me !
In fondness the fair creature lifts up her head !
But where hath my hind and her little ones fled ?
Hark hark ! what deep sighing!
In the dell they are dying ' oh !
Ho ro Mhairi dhu', turn to me !



"Ho ro Mhairi dhu"
a) Published in Alexander Campbell's "Albyn's Anthology", 1816, p.54 (first stanza, 9 lines).
b) Published in Keith Norman MacDonald's
"The Gesto Collection of Highland Music", 1895, p.19 (Two stanzas)

Cha dean mi car feum ma threigis mo leannan mi ;
Ho ro Mhairi dhu' ! tionndaidh rium !
A bhean a chul dualaich, 'sna cuachacan camlacach ;
Ho ro Mhairi dhu' ! tionndaidh rium !
'Sa Mhairi na dig a' tu thaitnidh tu rium,
'Sa Mhairi na dig a' tu thaitnidh tu rium;
'Sa Mhairi na dig a' tu,
B'e de bheath' a-gainn tu ;
Ho ro Mhairi dhu' ! tionndaidh rium !

Nuair theid thu ’Dhuneidin se luchd heurla ’bheir aire dhuit;
Ho ro Mhairi dhu' ! tionndaidh rium !
Bithidh croitaichean ard g' an carnadh air anairt dhuit;
Ho ro Mhairi dhu' ! tionndaidh rium !


a) The above stanza is the only one the EDITOR [Alexander Campbell] took down from the singing of MISSES ANNE and JANET McLEOD of Gesto, Skye. The Melody is supposed to be ancient—the verses were composed to MRS McPHERSON of Ostaig, by a female maniac, sereral years ago, who sung it, it is said, in so sweetly wild a manner, as to thrill the listner with pleasing terror.



Literal translation

I will do no good if my sweetheart forsakes me;
Ho ro Mhairi dhu '! turn to me!
His curly-backed wife, in the crooked curls;
Ho ro Mhairi dhu '! turn to me!
Mary you do not like me,
Mary does not like me;
Mary does not,
What a life you lacked;
Ho ro Mhairi dhu '! turn to me!

When you go to Dunedin, the English will pay attention to you;
Ho ro Mhairi dhu '! turn to me!
High crofts will be heaped on you linen;
Ho ro Mhairi dhu '! turn to me!

.

Subject: RE: DTStudy: Turn Ye to Me
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Nov 20 - 10:17 AM

John Wilson also wrote under the name Christopher North.

Subject: RE: DTStudy: Turn Ye to Me
From: Felipa
Date: 16 Jan 22 - 01:00 PM

dig thu should be spelled tig thu - you come, you will come but the soft Gaelic t can sound very like abn English t.

see also https://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=170872

Subject: RE: DTStudy: Turn Ye to Me
From: Felipa
Date: 16 Jan 22 - 04:56 PM

Gesto actually has "tigidh thu", not "dig thu"

I disagree with Rory's translation of the Gaelic quoted above. It's from Google translate, and it's not even a "literal" translation. Google translate often doesn't do at all well with translations of the Celtic languages.

Cha dean mi car feum ma threigis mo leannan mi ;
Ho ro Mhairi dhu' ! tionndaidh rium !
A bhean a chul dualaich, 'sna cuachacan camlacach* (* modern dictionary spelling is camagach)

means something like:
I don't know what I can do if my lover forsakes me
oh black-haired Mairi turn to me
O woman of the curling locks, swirling in coils
oh black-haired Mairi turn to me
oh Máiri if you will come (sources I've seen give "A Mhàiri na'n tigeadh tu" which is "oh Máiri if you would come"), you would please me.

B'e do bheath' a-gainn tu :

I'm fairly sure the writing in Gesto is "do bheath'" not "de bheath'" I haven't worked out the translation yet, but I see nothing in the line to indicate "lack"/

- what I am considering:

You are what we have of life ?
You would have your life with us?
We would welcome you? [? beatha does mean "life" and "do bheatha" your life, but "'s e do bheatha" is a way of welcoming someone.]

VERSE 2

"luchd Beurla" (not "heurla") doesn't mean "the English" but "the English speakers", which is an important distinction.

croitaichean doesn't mean crofts. It means hunchbacks. The line
Bithidh croitaichean ard g' an carnadh air anairt dhuit; means something like "the tall hunchbacks would be in a heap like linens (or clothes on a line?)to you.
Hunchbacks aren't usually tall, so I think this means either that the English speakers are hunched from working in offices rather than on farms, or that they would be hunched forward gazing at or hovering over the highland woman, either from admiration or curiousity. The singer is trying to discourage her from going away to Edinburgh.

Subject: RE: DTStudy: Turn Ye to Me aka The Sea Mew
From: Felipa
Date: 17 Jan 22 - 08:30 PM

lyrics and musical notation of Turn Ye to Me can be viewed at pp 54-55 in Albyn's Anthology at https://archive.org/details/albynsanthologyo00camp_0 This is a full set of the English language lyrics, far more than is published in the Gesto Collection. Rory has already posted in this discussion thread the 6 verses from Albyn's Anthology,

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I'm going to close this thread for now. DTStudy threads are supposed to be reserved for documented information, not discussion - and our general principle is not to have to threads open on one subject at the same time. Please refer to the "origins" thread.
-Joe Offer-