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Origins: Died for Love Sources: PART IV

Related threads:
Origins: Died for Love Sources: PART III (115) (closed)
Origins: Died for Love: Sources: PART II (124) (closed)
Origins: Died for Love: Sources and variants (125) (closed)


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Subject: Origins: Died for Love Sources: PART IV
From: Richie
Date: 30 Apr 17 - 05:24 PM

      This is an edited PermaThread®, used for a special project. This thread will be moderated. Feel free to post to this thread, but remember that all messages posted here are subject to editing or deletion.
      -Joe Offer-
Hi,

This should be the last installment of "Died for Love" and appears Origins: Died for Love Sources: PART IV

Please post any and all versions here: the ballads include these titles:

Died for Love; Rambling Boy; Answer to the Rambling Boy; The Butcher Boy; Brisk Young Sailor/Lad; There is an Alehouse; The Cruel Father, or, Deceived Maid ("A squire's daughter near Aclecloy"); Squire's Daughter; Oh Willie; Tavern in the Town; I Wish, I Wish; I Wish in Vain; Lady's Lamentation; Adieu; Radoo Radoo Radoo; Foolish Young Girl; Maiden's Prayer

Here are the variants lettered A-K (all ballads have not been added yet):

A. Died for Love-- Roud 60 ("I Wish, I Wish," "Alehouse") Roud 495
   a. "The Effects of Love- A New Song," broadside; 1 sheet; 1/80. British Library 11621.k.4(158), London c.1780.
   b. "Strange House," sung in Ulster c.1860s; from: The Irish Book Lover - Volumes 9-13 - Page 130 by John Smyth Crone, ‎Seamus O'Cassidy, ‎Colm O Lochlainn - 1917.
   c. "There's An Alehouse" from Ella Bull who it learned from Hannah Collins a domestic servant native of Cottenham, Cambridgeshire in 1886 and sent to Lucy Broadwood in December 20, 1904.
   d. There is a House- No informant or location given. From: English Dialect Society - 1896; Publications, Volume 41 by English Dialect Society
   e. "There is an Alehouse" taken from an old singer from Lancaster; 1904 Kidson From: Songs from the Collection of Mr. Frank Kidson; by Frank Kidson and Lucy E. Broadwood; Journal of the Folk-Song Society Vol. 1, No. 5 (1904), pp. 228-257.
   f. There Is An Ale-House In Yonders Town- sung by William Clark, of Barrow-on-Humber Lincolnshire, on August 3, 1906. Collected by Percy Grainger.
   g. Died for Love- three stanzas sung by Joseph Taylor of Saxby, Lincolnshire for Lucy Broadwood on March 7, 1906. Also sung by Joseph Taylor on a wax cylinder recording made by Percy Grainger in 1905 and 1908.
   h. "The Alehouse." Sung by Henry Way of Stoke Abbott, Dorset in May 1906. Collected by H.E.D. Hammond. Significant since it's related to "She's Like the Swallow."
   i. There is an Alehouse- sung by James Channon (b. 1857) of Basingstoke, Hampshire in September, 1907. Collected by G.B. Gardiner, Charles Gambin.
   j. "I Wish, I Wish." Sung by Miss H. Rae, Sandhaven, about February 1908. From The Greig-Duncan Folk Song Collection - Volume 8 - Page 256; by Patrick N. Shuldham-Shaw, ‎Emily B. Lyle - 2002. Rare version with suicide.
   k. There Is An Ale House- sung by Charles Ash of Crowcombe, Somerset on 15 September, 1908. Collector: Cecil J. Sharp. Hybrid with Constant Lady, then with Pitts' "Sheffield Park."
   l. "There is an Alehouse," sung by a 70 year old carpenter, Mr. James Bayliff of Bardon, Westmorland in June, 1909. He learned it about 60 years earlier when he was 10. Collected and noted by Anne Gilchrist.
   m. "Apron Low," sung by Charles Benfield, of Bould Oxfordshire on 11 Sept., 1909. Collector: Cecil J. Sharp.
   n. "There is a Tavern" sung by Mrs. Lucy Jane Lee of South Marston, Wiltshire before 1916. Collected by Alfred Williams. Has suicide, not related to composition.
   o. "I Wish, I Wish," sung by Ethel Findlater of Dounby, Orkney about c.1918 as recorded by Alan J. Bruford in 1968. Ethel learned the first two verses from her mother around fifty years before, and got the last verse from a People's Journal folk song supplement.
   p. "Betsy Williams," sung by Kathleen Williams of Wigpool Common, Gloucestershire on 6 September, 1921. Collector: Cecil J. Sharp.
   q. "I Wish in Vain." Sung by F.P. Provance of Fayette County, Pennsylvania in 1943. Collected by Samuel P. Bayard, with music. From: Korson, Pennsylvania Songs & Legends pp.48-49.
   r. "The Apron of Flowers" Sam Henry recovered it from Mrs. H. Dinsmore of Coleraine on December 26, 1936. A hybrid from Ireland.
   s. "I Wish, I Wish," sung by Cecilia Costello. Recorded by Marie Slocombe and Patrick Shuldham-Shaw, 30.11.51
   t. "Early, Early All in the Spring," sung by Winnie Ryan in Belfast in 1952. Recorded by Peter Kennedy and Sean O'Boyle.
   u. "There is an Alehouse," sung by 'Pop's' Johnny Connors, a Wexford Traveller c. 1953. BBC Recordings of Folk Music and Folklore, Great Britain and Ireland, Section 1: Songs in English.
   v. "What a Voice," sung by Jeannie Robertson of Aberdeen in October, 1953 for Hamish Henderson and J. Anthony (School of Scottish Studies). Jeannie learned it from her mother, Maria Stewart.
   w. "I Wish, I Wish," sung by Charlotte Higgins (1895-1971) of Blairgowrie, Perthshire in July, 1961. Recorded by Hamish Henderson; Maurice Fleming. Learned from her great grandmother.
   x. "I Wish, I Wish," sung by Elsie Morrison of Moray in 1956. Recorded by Hamish Henderson. School of Scottish Studies; Track ID - 20022.
   y. "There is an Alehouse," Sung by Tom Willett. Recorded by Ken Stubbs, c.1960. From the recording, The Willett family "Adieu to Old England" 1963, Topic Records.
   z. "Died for Love." Sung by Tom Willett Recorded by Paul Carter, 1962. The Willett family, "Adieu to Old England" 1963, Topic Records.
   aa. "I Wish my Baby Were Born" Dillard Chandler, Madison NC, recorded bu John Cohen in 1965.
   bb. "Died For Love," sung by Sarah Porter, recorded in 1965 in The Three Cups, Punnetts Town.
   cc. "I Wish I Wish," sung by Sam Larner (1878- 1965) a sailor/fisherman of Winterton, Norfolk around 1961. From the recording: Sam Larner, Cruising Round Yarmouth (MTCD369-0)
   dd. "Blind Beetles," sung by Dorset gypsy Carolyne Hughes (1902-1971), as recorded by MacColl around 1963. It was later recorded by Peter Kennedy in 1968 who titled it "Blind Beetles."
   ee. "There Is a Tavern in the Town," sung by Emma Vickers from Lancashire. From a recording made by Fred Hamer in Autumn 1963 that he printed in his 1967 EFDS book of English folk songs, Garners Gay.
   ff. "I Wish (Till Apples Grow)," by the Dubliners 1964, sung solo by Ronnie Drew. From the Album The Dubliners (Bonus Track Edition) released January 1, 1964. Has "Love is Teasing" stanza.
   gg. "Died for Love," sung by Alf Wildman of Shefford, Bedfordshire at the King's Head Folk Club on February 25, 1970.
   hh. "I Wish, I Wish," sung by Mrs. Belle Anne MacAngus of Ross. Recorded by de Groot in 1971. The informant was born in 1881 and brought up in Hilton. She was a fishwife.
   ii. "There is an Alehouse," sung by Andy Cash of Wexford County in 1973, from Jim Carroll and Pat McKenzie Collection.
   jj. "Died for Love," sung by Geoff Ling of Blaxhall, Sussex on December 17, 1974. Recorded by Keith Summers. From: Singing Traditions of a Suffolk Family: The Ling Family-- Topic Records 12TS292.
   kk. "Over Yonder's Hill" sung by Amy Birch; recorded by Sam Richards, Paul Wilson and Tish Stubbs in the singer's trailer at Exebridge, Devon, November 1976.
   ll. "I Wish I was a Maid Again," sung by Eugene McEldowney, recorded at Tom Maye's Pub in Dublin, June 16, 2004.

B. The Cruel Father ("A squire's daughter near Aclecloy,") her love is sent to sea- dies of a cannonball; Roud 23272
   a. "The Cruel Father or Deceived Maid," from the Madden Collection, c.1780.
   b. "Answer to Rambling Boy" from a chapbook by J. & M. Robertson, Saltmarket, Glasgow; 1799.
   c. "The Squire's Daughter," printed by W. Shelmerdine and Co., Manchester c. 1800
   d. "Answer to Rambling Boy," four printings from US Chapbooks: 1. The Harper: to which are added, Shannon's flowery banks, The rambling boy, with The answer. Bung your eye, Henry and Laury [i.e. Laura]. London [i.e., Philadelphia : s.n., 1805?] 2. The Rambling boy, with the Answer : to which is added, Blue bells of Scotland, Good morrow to your night cap, Capt. Stephen Decatur's victory, Green upon the cape. From Early American imprints., Second series, no. 50722. [Philadelphia]: [publisher not identified], 1806; 3. The Bold mariners: The rambling boy, and the answer: Roslin Castle, to which is added the answer: Flashy Tom. [Philadelphia? : s.n.], January, 1811; 4. Ellen O'Moore. The Bold mariners. The Rambling boy. Barbara Allen. [United States : s.n.], January, 1817.
   e. "The Killarney Tragedy," an Irish broadside printed by John F. Nugent Printer 35 Cook St. Dublin c. 1850s.
   f. "Sweet William," as written down about July 1, 1915, by Miss Mae Smith of Sugar Grove, Watauga county, from the singing of her stepmother, Mrs. Mary Smith, who learned it over forty years ago. submitted by Thomas Smith, Brown Collection, c.1875.
   g. "Rambling Boy" Cowboy Songs and Other Frontier Ballads, John Lomax 1916 edition.
   h. "Cruel Father" sung by Fanny Coffee of White Rock, Virginia on May 8, 1918. Cecil Sharp Manuscript Collection.
   i. "The Wrecked and Rambling Boy" from Mrs. Audrey Hellums, Tishomingo, Mississippi. Hudson C, 1926
   j. "Oh Willie" from Mary Lou Bell of Staunton Virginia; 1932
   k. "The Isle of Cloy" collected by E.J. Moeran in the 1930s in Suffolk from George Hill and Oliver Waspe.
   l. "I Am a Rambling Rowdy Boy," sung by Rena Hick of Beech Mountain, NC collected in December, 1933 by Melinger Henry. Songs Sung in the Southern Appalachians, by Mellinger Henry, London c.1934.
   m. "Black Birds.' Miss Lura Wagoner of Vox, Allegheny County, NC, 1938
   n. "Oh Willie" sung by Rod Drake of Silsbee Texas; See Owens, 1952.
   o. "Beam of Oak." Sung by Stuart Letto of Lance au Clair, Labrador in July, 1960 from "Folk Ballads and Songs of the Lower Labrador Coast" by MacEdward Leach.
   p. "Rude and Rambling Boy," Buna Hicks Sugar Grove, NC , 1966. Warner

C. The Rambling Boy ("I am a wild and a rambling boy") Roud 18830, c. 1765
   a. "The Wild Rover," The Musical Companion (British Library) London, c. 1765.
   b. "Rambling Boy," To which is Added, The New Vagary O, Shepherds I Have Lost My Love, The Drop of Dram, Fight Your Cock in the Morning. Published by W. Goggin of Limerick BM 11622 c.14, dated 1790.
   c. "Rambling Boy," from a chapbook by J. & M. Robertson, Saltmarket, Glasgow; 1799. Same text as "Rambling Boy" printed by William Scott in Greenock no date, probably early 1800s [c. 1812].
   d. "Rambling Boy," broadside J. Pitts, 14 Great St. Andrew Street, Seven Dials, London c. 1806
   e. "The Wild Rambling Boy," T. Birt, Printer, 39, Great St. Andrew Street, Seven Dials; London c. 1833.
   f. "The Rambling Boy" broadside first line "rake and rambling boy" (Manchester Reference Library, Ballads Vol. 5, page 392) Gardham 5A.
   g. "Sweet William." Brown Collection M from Thomas Smith, with the notation that it was "written down about July 1, 1915. By Miss Mae Smith of Sugar Grove, Watauga county, from the singing of her stepmother, Mrs. Mary Smith, who learned it over forty years ago."

D. Brisk Young Lover ("A brisk young sailor courted me,") Roud 60
   a. "The Lady's Lamentation for the Loss of her Sweetheart," from the Manchester Central library; c.1775. It is mixed with Oxfordshire Tragedy c. 1686 (after stanza 4) and called a sequel to Oxfordhire by Ebsworth.
   b. "A New Song Call'd the Distress'd Maid," London, (no imprint) in the Madden Collection Cambridge University Library (Slip Songs H-N no. 1337) c.1785.
   c. ["A Faithful Shepherd"] - from John Clare (b. 1793 in Helpstone), MS dated 1818
   d. "Brisk Young Sailor," broadside by W. Pratt, Printer, 82, Digbeth, Birmingham; c.1850
   e. "Brisk Young Sailor," broadside by Bebbington, Manchester; c. 1855
   f. "Brisk Young Sailor" sung by Starlina Lovell, gypsy, in Wales area. Collected by Groome, published 1881.
   g. "There Was Three Worms," sung by Mr. Bartlett of Dorset in 1905; collected by H.E.D Hammond. From: Songs of Love and Country Life by Lucy E. Broadwood, Cecil J. Sharp, Frank Kidson, Clive Carey and A. G. Gilchrist; Journal of the Folk-Song Society, Vol. 5, No. 19 (Jun., 1915), pp. 174-203.
   h. "A Brisk Young Sailor." Sung by Thomas (William) Colcombe, Weobley, Herefords, noted F.W. Jekyll, Sep. 1906.
   i. "A Brisk Young Sailor." Tune noted by Francis Jekyll in 1908. Tune and 1st stanza given by Mr. Ford of Scaynes Hill, Sussex; additional words by Mrs. Cranstone. From the George Butterworth Manuscript Collection (GB/12/3).
   j. "Died For Love" (A bold young farmer) Isla Cameron

E. Butcher Boy ("In Jersey city where I did dwell") Roud 409; Roud 18832
   a1. "The Butcher Boy." broadside [Philadelphia]: J.H. Johnson, song publisher, 7 N. Tenth St., Philadelphia., c. 1860
   a2. "The Butcher Boy," broadside from H. De Marsan (New York), 1861-1864 Bodleian, Harding B 18(72) c. 1860
   a3. "The Butcher Boy of Baltimore," broadside words and music by Harry Tofflin. "Wm. J. Schmidt, 2507 W. North Ave. NY c. 1865. Standard text with Baltimore added.
   a4. "The Butcher Boy" Henry De Marsan's New Comic and Sentimental Singer's Journal, Issue 1, p. 16, NY, 1871
   a5. "The Butcher Boy." Broadside by Henry J. Wehman, Song Publisher, No. 50 Chatham Street, New York City; c.1880.
   b. "The Butcher Boy." Contributed by Lorraine Purvis, Grundy Center, as sung by older members of her family about 1870; Stout H.
   c. "In Jersey Town," sung by an English nurse in Virginia; from: The London Ballads by W. H. Babcock; The Folk-Lore Journal, Vol. 7, No. 1 (1889), pp. 27-35.
   d. "Butcher Boy." Sung by Ida M. Cromwell of central Iowa. From: Songs I Sang on an Iowa Farm by Ida M. Cromwell, Eleanor T. Rogers, Tristram P. Coffin and Samuel P. Bayard; Western Folklore, Vol. 17, No. 4 (Oct., 1958), pp. 229-247+312.
   e. "Ballad of the Butcher Boy." From the singing of Billy Hartman, aged wandering farm hand, at Speedwell Mills, Lancaster County, August 7, 1899. From: Keystone folklore quarterly, Volume 2, no. 1, p. 26; Spring 1957.


F. Foolish Young Girl, or, Irish Boy ("What a foolish girl was I,") Roud 60
a. "The Irish Boy," Elizabeth St. Clair of Edinburgh, c.1770; Clark, The Mansfield Manuscript (2015) pp.4-6.
b. "A New Love Song," Gil, No. 6, printed by Bart. Corcoran, Inn's Quay, Dublin c. 1774?
c. "The Maid's Tragedy," a broadside from St. Bride's Printing Library S447 (my ref BS 1900), c1790.
d. "The Irish Boy," a broadside, Poet's Box, 80 London Street, Glasgow, c. 1872
e. "Sailor Boy," sung by Georgina Reid of Aberdeenshire, about 1882 Duncan C
f. "Foolish Young Girl" From John Strachan, of Strichen, b. 1875 heard the song as a child. His mother used to sing it, c. 1885.
g. "The Student Boy," sung by William Wallace of Leochel-Cushnie, Aberdeenshire about Sept. 17, 1908. From The Greig-Duncan Folk Song Collection- Volume 8- page 521 by Patrick N. Shuldham-Shaw, ‎Emily B. Lyle, published 2002.
h. Irish Boy- sung by Annie Shirer (b. 1873) of Kininmonth who got her ballads from her father and Uncle Kenneth Shirer. Collected by Gavin Grieg, c. 1908.
i. "The Foolish Young Girl," sung by Willie Mathieson of Ellon, Aberdeenshire. Recorded by Hamish Henderson in 1952. This variant includes stanzas from three different songs. Text proofed with MS provided by Cathlin Macaulay and Caroline Milligan of the School of Scottish Studies.
j."Foolish Young Girl," sung by Jean Elvin, Turriff, 1952- recorded by Hamish Henderson. From "Tocher: Tales, Songs, Tradition" - Issue 43 - Page 41, 1991.
k. "I Wish I Was a Maid Again" sung by Bella Stewart; Recorded by Calum Iain Maclean in 1955. School of Scottish Studies.
l. "A Student Boy," sung by Norman Kennedy of Aberdeen about 1958. Folk-Legacy Records: Ballads and Songs of Scotland, FSS 034, LP (1968)
m. The Irish Boy- sung by Phyllis Martin, Dalbeattie Scotland who learned it c. 1960s from her mother Joan Cron of Wigtonshire, who is in her 80's.
n. "The Young Foolish Girl," sung by Jeannie Hutchison, Traditional Music from the Shetland Isles (online) SA1974.13.3, March, 1974.

G. Queen of Hearts ("The Queen of Hearts and the Ace of sorrow") Roud 3195
a. "The Queen of Hearts" Pitts Printer; Wholesale Toy and Marble warehouse 6, Great St. Andrew street; 7 Dials, London- c.1820
b. "The Queen of Hearts" Wright, Printer, 113, Moor-Street, Birmingham c. 1833
c. "Queen of Hearts" Collected Baring-Gould as sung by a workman engaged on the Burrow-Tor reservoir at Sheepstor, the water supply for Plymouth, 1894

H. The Darling Rose ("My love he is a false love,"); an imitation of a minstrel version.
a. "The Darling Rose," a broadside (GPB 585) Air- Beauty and the Beast; October 4, 1851

I. There is a Tavern in the Town by William H. Hills, c.1883. ("There is a tavern in the town") Roud 18834
a. "There Is a Tavern in the Town" from 1883 edition of William H. Hill's Student Songs. Also R. Marsh songbook of similar date published Marsh & Co., St. James's Walk, Clerkenwell, London. Derived from earlier songs including the "Died for Love" songs.
b. "Radoo, Radoo, Radoo," an African-American song from which part of the chorus of "There is a Tavern" was borrowed. Radoo is dated pre1869 when it was heard during a tour of US South by Irish writer Justin McCarthy. Earliest print is circa 1883 in R. Marsh songbook published Marsh & Co., St. James's Walk, Clerkenwell, London. The music was published by Bessie O'Connor about 1885 who also learned it years earlier in the US south[]. it appears in two London songsters; W. S. Fortey's "The Popular Songster" and W. S. Fortey's "Yankee Barnum's Songster" [no date given] and with music in the 1886 fictional book, "The Right Honourable": A Romance of Society and Politics, by McCarthy and Campbell-Praed; published by D. Appleton and Company.
c. "Tavern in the Town" by F. J. Adams, 1891.
d. "Adieu," sung by Mrs. Nathaniel Stone of Culpper Virginia on Nov. 15, 1916 in Traditional Ballads of Virginia by Kyle Davis Jr.
e. "The Drunkard Song." Rudy Vallee, 1934

J. Maiden's Prayer ("She was a maiden young and fair") c.1918; Roud18828
a. The Soldier's Love- sung by Fred Cottenham (Kent) c.1925
b. Maiden's Prayer- Airman's Song Book, p126 by C Ward Jackson and Leighton Lucas, dated c. 1933.
d. "All You Maidens Sweet and Kind." From Hamish Henderson's "Ballads of World War II" (Caledonian Press, Glasgow, 1947). Recorded (almost) verbatim on Ewan MacColl's "Bless 'em All and Other British Army Songs" (Riverside, 1959).
e. Maiden's Prayer- sung by Doreen Cross of Hessle, East Riding, Yorkshire in 1974. From "An East Riding Songster," 1982 by Steve Gardham.
f. Sailor Boy- sung by Tony Ballinger of Brockworth. Recorded by Gwilym Davies, Upton St. Leonards, Gloucestershire on 14 April, 1977; Gwilym Davies Collection.

K. "Died for Love" hybrids (Versions with Died for Love stanzas which cannot be categorized with A-J)
a. "Betsy, My Darling Girl." Recorded on March 19, 1937, from the singing of Mrs. G. A. Griffin, Newberry, Florida, learned from her father in Georgia by 1877-- with music. First published in Southern Folklore Quarterly - Volume 8 - page 189, 1944; then in "Folksongs of Florida," Morris, 1950.
b. "The Farmer's Boy." Brown Collection version K from Miss Lura Wagoner's manuscript book of songs lent to Dr. Brown in 1936, in which this song is dated March 15, 1913. Includes four unusual stanzas.
c. "As I Walked Out." Sung by Eden Hash collected by Mrs. McDowell [no date] but published in 1947. From Memory Melodies- A Collection of Folk-Songs from Middle Tennessee- McDowell; 1947.
d. "The Forsaken Girl." sung by Eden Hash, collected by Mrs. L. L. McDowell published in 1947. From Memory Melodies- A Collection of Folk-Songs from Middle Tennessee- McDowell; 1947.
e. "Morning Fair." Sung by Frank Proffitt of Beach Mountain NC, in 1962. From the recording Frank Proffitt of Reese, NC CD-1: American Folk Music by Folk-legacy, 1962. Learned from great-Aunt Nancy Prather.

The following ballads/songs are part of the extended family and are appendices:

7A. The Sailor Boy, or, Sweet William
7B. Love Has Brought Me To Despair
7C. Sheffield Park (The Unfortunate Maid)
7D. Every Night When The Sun Goes In
7E. Will Ye Gang Love, or, Rashy Muir
7F. My Blue-Eyed Boy
7G. Early, Early by the Break of Day
7H. She's Like the Swallow
7I. I Love You, Jamie
7J. I Know My Love
7K. Love Is Teasing (Love Is Pleasing)
7Ka. Oh Johnny, Johnny
7L. Careless Love
7La. Dink's Song
7M. The Colour of Amber
7N. Through Lonesome Woods
7O. Must I Go Bound?
7P. I am a Rover (The Rover)
7Q. Deep in Love (Deep as the Love I'm In)
7R. Yon Green Valley (Green Valley)
7S. Down in a Meadow (Unfortunate Swain)
7T. Bury Me Beneath The Willow
7U. Wheel of Fortune
7Ua. Young Ladies (Little Sparrow)
7V. The Ripest Apple (Ripest of Apples)

Many of these Appendices are nearly finished and some are finished. I've been working on this since the beginning of 2017 and haven't had much time lately but I'm starting back again and hope to finish up by summer.

Please contribute whatever you can. Evey possible traditional version is included as well has some print versions. Needless to say because of the vast amount of material, most writers of song notes have been lacking and/or confused about the origin and nature of the "Died for Love songs and the extended family.

Richie


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Subject: RE: Origins: Died for Love Sources: PART IV
From: Richie
Date: 30 Apr 17 - 05:43 PM

Hi,

I'm currently working on North American version of Died for Love/Butcher Boy http://www.bluegrassmessengers.com/us--canada-versions-7-died-for-lovebutcher-boy.aspx

I've put over 150 versions on and am finishing up "Died for Love" since the UK versions are already done. You can access everything from my site from the link above.

I'll be posting some conclusion from North America:

[I'm missing the complete text to She Died in Love- Mrs. Walters (NL) c.1958 Peacock. Anyone have that text or access to the recording?]

The Butcher Boy by Region

Canada: The following versions are from Canada. Many Maritime versions were brought by early settlers and remained isolated in remote fishing villages for many years and are quite old.

Butcher Boy- Mrs. N. C. Waugh (ON) 1918 Waugh [5 1/2 stanzas: Dublin City; an inn; extra stanza (there is a bird)]
Butcher Boy- Ellen Bigney (NS) 1919 Mackenzie A [10 stanzas; London City; an inn; extra stanza (Frost and snow)]
Butcher Boy- Thompson (NS) 1928 Mackenzie B [10 stanzas; Dublin city; a house; extra stanza (rain and snow)]
Butcher Boy- Edward Hartley (NS) 1929 Creighton [7 stanzas; Jersey City; a place; no extra]
Butcher's Boy- Rosie Oikle (NS) 1931 Fauset A [7 1/2 stanzas; Jersey City; an inn; no extra]
Must I Go Bound- Peter Dyer (NS) 1931 Fauset B [3 stanzas (non-conforming); London Town; extra stanzas (Must I Go) (Deep blue sea/ orphan)
Butcher Boy- Bert Fitzgerald (NL) 1951 Leach [8 stanzas; Jersey City a place; no extra]
She Died in Love- Mrs. Walters (NL) c.1958 Peacock [1 stanza; (apron stanza) missing full text]
Butcher Boy- Amelia Kinslow (NL) 1959 Peacock [6 stanzas; Jersey city; a girl; no extra]
She Died In Love - Mrs. Ghaney (NL) 1959 Peacock [8 stanzas first missing; an ale-house extra stanzas (Apron Low) (Grows a flower) (Apron full) (Fond of me)]
Butcher Boy- LaRena Clark (ON) 1965 Fowke [11 stanzas; London City; a house; extra stanza (Frost and snow) unusual ending stanza- two new lines]

Of the 11 versions from Canada, 10 are conforming to standard Butcher Boy form and one is a variant (see Appendices), Must I Go Bond (Bound) with only one stanza in common. Of the 10 versions 4 have Jersey city; 2 have London city and 2 have Dublin City- an obvious Irish connection. In 3 versions her false lover, the Butcher Boy, goes to "an inn" to meet another girl (as in print versions) and the location is also "a house" or "a place"- in one archaic version it is "an alehouse" as in many UK versions. The most common extra stanza is "frost and snow" however, the apron itself is not mentioned:

I mind the time, not long ago,
He'd follow me through frost and snow.
But now he's changed his mind again.
He'll pass my door and he won't come in.

One version has the extra stanza "There is a bird" found rarely in North America (mostly in New England) and the UK. She Died In Love from Mrs. Ghaney in Newfoundland is closely aligned with the broadside "Constant Lady" having borrowed 3 extra stanzas from that 1686 broadside.

Richie


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Subject: RE: Origins: Died for Love Sources: PART IV
From: Richie
Date: 01 May 17 - 11:19 AM

Hi,

Here is a summary of the Butcher Boy versions from New England. Please post any missing New England versions or give info about them. TY

New England: The following Butcher Boy versions are from New England. Several of the New England versions are much older that the date they were collected. The Butcher Boy as sung by Ada F. Kelley in MA in 1939 (Linscott) goes back several generations though the family. Butcher Boy sung by Jennie Devlin of NY probably dates to the 1880s. Lena B. Fish's version may date back hundreds of years through her family (Bourne family originally from Vermont) and Jim Cleveland's version comes from his mother Sarah, and dates back many years. Several of the versions collected by Lutz in NY (see below) are fragments which are included but have little value. Unfortunately I don't have access to two New England versions (Barry/Bayard) that use stanzas from Constant Lady (see Belden's headnotes, where he gives a stanza). One version from PA has stanzas of Constant Lady. Most of the broadside print versions, dating from c.1860 onward, are from NY and PA which were derived from New England tradition and are not listed below. The broadsides, apparently all from a single arrangement, use the following identifiers: In Jersey City; my heart away; There is an inn; But her gold will melt; her Willie dear; Oh! what a silly maid.

Ballad of the Butcher Boy- B. Hartman (PA) 1899 [9 stanzas; Lancaster City; flesh house; extra stanza (Must I go Bound/orange tree]
In Jersey- Nancy Giannotti (NJ) 1926 Henry C [5 stanzas; Jersey; same city;]
Butcher's Boy- Frank Luther (NY) 1928 REC [9 stanzas; London city; Spring House; extra stanza (Must I be bound/oranges)]
Butcher's Boy- anon (PA) 1928 Harrisburg Telegraph [9 stanzas; London city; strange house; extra stanza (Must I be bound/oranges)]
In Jersey City- Thad Napiorski (NJ) 1929 Henry D [5 1/2 stanzas; Jersey City; other girls end stanza 2 unique lines]
Butcher Boy- Elizabeth Albers (NJ) 1929 Henry E [2 stanzas; Jersey City]
Butcher Boy- Mrs. Harrington (VT) 1930 Brown [8 stanzas; London city; same town;]
Butcher Boy- Paul Lorette (VT) 1931 Flanders REC [10 stanzas; Jersey Town; an inn; extra stanzas (Must I go Bound) (There is a bird)]
Butcher Boy- Mrs. Burditt (VT) 1932 Flanders REC [2 stanzas; London City; an inn]
Butcher Boy- Jennie Devlin (NY) c.1936 Lomax [2 stanzas; Jersey City; extra stanza (apron low)]
Butcher Boy- Ada F. Kelley (MA) 1939 Linscott [8 stanzas; London City; an inn]
In Jersey City- anon (NY) pre1940 Thompson A [8 stanzas; Jersey City extra stanza (I Wish I Wish/apples)]
Georgia Town- anon (NY) pre1940 Thompson B [outline with 1 stanza; Georgia Town; extra stanza (There is a bird)]
Butcher Boy- Lena B. Fish (NH) 1940 Flanders REC [7 stanzas; Jersey City; tavern]
Butcher Boy- Mrs. Russell (VT) 1942 Flanders REC [3 stanzas; Jersey City; house]
I Wish in Vain- F.P. Provance (PA) Bayard 1943 [non-conforming; tavern; extra stanzas (I wish) (babe was born) 2 stanzas of Constant Lady]
Butcher Boy - Alice Robie (NH) 1943 Flanders REC [8 stanza; Dublin Town; a house]
Butcher Boy- Paul Peterson (RI) 1945 Flanders REC [5 1/2 stanzas; Jersey City; alehouse]
Butcher Boy- Amos Eaton (VT) 1945 Flanders REC [7 1/2 stanzas; New York Jersey; same town; 1st stanza similar Brisk Young Lover; extra stanza (I Wish, I Wish/orange)
Butcher Boy- O. Jenness (ME) 1947 Flanders REC [6 stanzas; Jersey City; a house; extra stanzas (frost and snow/dresses); (babe was born)]
Butcher Boy- Maggie Gannon (NY) 1947 Lutz B [2 corrupt stanza; Jersey City]
Butcher Boy- Cal Conklin (NY) 1947 Lutz C [9 stanzas; London City; strange house; extra stanza (Must I be Bound/oranges]
Butcher Boy- Mrs. G-- (NY) 1947 Lutz D [3 stanzas; Jersey City; extra stanza (rain and snow/apron)]
Butcher Boy- Mrs. J. Bulson (NY) 1947 Lutz E [1 stanza; Jersey City]
Butcher Boy - William Webster (RI) 1952 Flanders [9 1/2 stanzas; Jersey City; a house; extras stanzas (There is a bird) (I wish I wish)]
Butcher Boy- Jim Cleveland (NY) 1966 REC Davies [7 stanzas; Dublin City; extra stanza (apron low) (Must I go bound/child without a name)]
Butcher Boy- anon (PA) 1958 Bayard [7 stanzas; Jersey City; an inn]

Since New England is the obvious source of the 1860 broadsides with the identifiers-- Jersey city; an inn-- it's no surprise that Jersey City is the most popular location. Of the 27 New England versions 15 have Jersey City-- the name Jersey also used in the state New Jersey is derived from the isle off the coast of south England and France. "London city" and "Dublin city" are the next two popular while a version from Pennsylvania has the local location of "Lancaster City."
"There is a girl" in "an inn" while one version has "flesh house" while "a house" or a "strange house" or "an alehouse" are also popular. Some locations where he meets the girl are in the "same" city or town. The extra stanzas include "frost and snow/apron low" whereas in Canada the apron was not mentioned. In one version the apron is a dress. There are several stanzas of "I wish my Babe was born" popular in the UK versions of "I Wish I Wish" Roud 495. There are 3 versions of the rare "There is a Bird" also found rarely in the UK. The "Must I Go Bound" extra stanza appears 5 times. There is one non-conforming hybrid "I Wish in Vain" (Bayard) with stanzas from "Constant lady" broadside.

Richie


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Subject: RE: Origins: Died for Love Sources: PART IV
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 01 May 17 - 01:49 PM

Hi, Richie
What makes you think the Jersey City versions derive from the Channel Island of that name? I think this is most unlikely. All versions refer specifically to the City. Jersey the island hasn't got a city or indeed a very big population. Apart from that no other British folksong as far as I know is set on any of the Channel Islands. The famous writer of a folk ballad lived on Guernsey but that song is about a sea battle and doesn't mention Guernsey.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Died for Love Sources: PART IV
From: GUEST
Date: 04 May 17 - 10:15 PM

Hi,

And the Cat is back:

But the cat came back the very next day,
The cat came back, we thought he was a goner,
The cat came back, he just wouldn't stay away.

I've already emailed Steve. The state New Jersey and Jersey city were originally named after the Isle of Jersey located between the northern coast of France and the southern coast of England; the island uses English customs and language and its recorded history extends over a thousand years.

The use of Jersey City as the location of Butcher Boy is almost exclusively American except for the 1905 "Jessie's City" which can possibly be attributed to the ballad "crossing back over" or sung in England but coming from an American source. See also Babcock's 1889 version sung by an English nurse.

Butcher Boy has also been collected in British colonies but "London Town" is the location.

Richie


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Subject: RE: Origins: Died for Love Sources: PART IV
From: Richie
Date: 04 May 17 - 10:27 PM

Hi,

Continuing on with the study of Died for Love/Butcher Boy by regions in North America-- we have:

The Southeast (including West Virginia; Virginia; Appalachia; Georgia; Florida). The following 81 versions are from the Southeast-- a number of them are not versions of Butcher Boy but are from the Died for Love family. One important point of dissemination of the ballads is the area of the Virginia Colony (James River basin) established in the early 1600s. Over 30 versions are known to have been collected in Virginia alone-- many of the versions reported by Davis in Folk Songs of Virginia have never been printed and remain in the WPA collection. The alternate occupation of "railroad boy" seems to have been popular mainly in Kentucky and is found in recordings from Buell Kazee to Morgan Sexton.
"Radoo, Radoo, Radoo" (Adieu) was printed in NY and London in the 1880s but originated in the US south among African-Americans where it was heard sung there in 1869 by Justin McCarthy on a speaking tour and was arranged with music by American Bessie O'Connor. "Radoo" or "Adieu" was used in William Hills arrangement/composition "There is a Tavern in the Town." "Adieu" was a folk chorus sung with other related floating verses and was collected in Virginia in 1916 by John Stone for Davis-- the Virginia "Adieu" was combined with other ballad/song stanzas including "Must I Go Bound," "My Blue-Eyed Boy" and the "who will shoe my pretty little feet" stanzas associated with Child 76.
Several versions of B, The Cruel Father have been collected in the South, including one excellent MS version by Sharp, who did not publish it.

Sweet William- Mary Smith (NC) c.1875 Brown M [5 stanzas; non-conforming; related to C, Rambling Boy]
Betsy, my Darling Girl- Griffin (GA) 1877 Morris [6 stanzas; non-conforming; only one stanza in common]
In Jersey Town- English nurse (VA) 1889 Babcock [8 stanzas; Jersey Town; name]
Butcher Boy- Nellie Martin (SC-MO) 1906 Belden C [7 mostly corrupt stanzas; missing opening stanzas; two extra stanzas (Apron low) (an unusual stanza-"Katie McGays," not part of Died for Love)
Brisk Young Lover- Della Moore (GA) 1909 Sharp A [8 stanzas; 1st stanza similar Brisk Young Lover; a house; ending stanza's last two line unique]
Farmer's Boy- Lura Wagoner (NC) 1913 Brown K [13 stanzas; probably compilation; London City; strange house; 4 extra stanzas (Must I be bound/orange) (evening fair) (unique "went to her grave") (unique "warning" stanza)
Black Birds- Lura Wagoner (NC) 1913 Brown L [6 stanzas; non-conforming; version of B, Cruel Father]
Forsaken Lovers- L. D. Hayman (NC) 1915 Brown N [1 stanza; last stanza]
Butcher Boy- Jane Hicks Gentry (NC) 1916 Sharp B [7 1/2 stanzas; London city; a house; extras stanza (Must I go bound/orange tree)]
Blue Eyed Boy- Hezekiah Crane (TN) 1916 Sharp MS [5 stanzas; North Carolina; farmer's house; has "blue-eyed boy" instead of "butcher boy."]
Little Sparrow- Ella Taylor (IN) 1916 Tolman [4 stanzas; non-conforming; has one stanza of Butcher Boy]
Adieu- Mrs. Nathaniel Stone (VA) 1916 Davis [4 stanzas; non-conforming; related to I, Tavern in the Town]
Butcher's Boy- Nellie Haddix (WV) 1917 Cox A [8 stanzas; Jersey City; missing other location]
Butcher Boy- Virginia Ransom (KY-WV) 1917 Cox B [6 stanzas; New York City; that town]
Cruel Father- Fanny Coffey (VA) 1918 Sharp C, Sharp MS [6 stanzas; version of B, Cruel Father; still has several stanzas in common with Butcher Boy]
Died for Love- Sina Boone (NC) 1918 Sharp D [last stanza]
In Jersey City- Vergie Charlton (WV) 1918 Sharp MS [1st stanza only; Jersey city]
I Wish, I Wish- Jacob Sowder (VA) 1918 Sharp MS [1 1/2 stanzas; missing all but 1/2 stanza and extra stanza (I wish I Wish/apple)]
In Jefferson City- (NC) 1920 Sutton, Brown A [9 stanzas; Jefferson city; same town; ending shows variation]
Butcher Boy- Amos Abrams (NC) c.1922 Abrams C [5 stanzas; Tarlborough town; same town]
Butcher's Boy- Kelly Harrell (VA) 1925 Victor REC [9 stanzas; London City; strange house; extra stanza (Must I go Bound/oranges)]
Butcher Boy- Spence Moore (VA) 1925 Davies [3 stanzas; London City; 2 lines "Must I go bound"]
Boston Town- Emeth Tuttle (NC) 1926 Brown H [only 2 lines given; Boston Town]
London City- no informant (US) 1927 Sandburg B [7 1/2 stanzas; London City; fair little town; "railroad boy"]
The Railroad Boy- Buell Kazee (KY) 1928 REC [5 1/2 stanzas; Lebanon City (London?) "railroad boy"]
Butcher Boy- Bradley Kincaid (KY) 1928 REC [7 stanzas; London city; strange girl; two extra stanzas (bring back my blue-eyed boy) (never change the old for the new).]
In Johnson City- Minnie Church (NC) 1930 Brown I [6 stanzas; Johnson City; same town; one extra stanza (The first two lines from the broadside "Nelly's Constancy," the last two found in "Rambling Boy" other broadsides)]
Butcher's Boy- Sam Harmon (TN) 1930 Henry A [7 stanzas; yonder city; a house]
Butcher's Boy- Lois Whitbee (NC) c1930 Lunsford A [9 stanzas; London City; a train; extra (Must I go bound/oranges)]
Butcher's Boy- Dora Blanton (SC) c1930 Lunsford B [8 stanzas; London City; strange house; extra (Must I go bound/oranges)]
The Butcher's Boy- anon (NC) c1930 Lunsford C [5 stanzas; London City; strange house; extra (Must I go bound/oranges)]
Jefferson City- anon (NC) c1930 Lunsford D [9 stanzas; Jefferson City; same town; extended ending with willow]
Johnson City- Gera Norris (NC) c1930 Lunsford E [7 1/2 stanzas; Johnson City; extra 2 lines Nelly's Constancy; 2 lines (I love my papa); stanza (Must I go)]
Jaunson City- Clyde West (NC) c1930 Lunsford F [5 stanzas; Jaunson City; same town; unique ending stanza]
Butcher Boy- A. Truelove (VA) 1931 Scarborough A [1 stanza; London City; claims English origin]
Butcher's Boy- O. Johnson (VA) 1931 Scarborough B [9 stanzas; London City; strange home; extra stanza -corrupt- (Must I go bound)]
Butcher Boy- Bessie Musick (VA) 1931 Scarborough C [7 stanzas; New York City; extra stanzas (young and free) (No, no, apple/lily tree)]
Jersey City- Mary Presley (VA) 1931 Scarborough D [6 stanzas; Jersey City; down the road; 3 extra stanzas last unique (apron low) (my babe was a-born) (Go on young man)- no suicide]
In Johnson City- McCurry (NC) 1931 Scarborough F [3 stanzas; Johnson City; strange town]
Butcher's Boy- L. Corbin (NC) 1931 Scarborough G [5 stanzas London City; another town; extra stanza (Must I go bound)]
Died in Love- Lovingood (NC) 1931 Scarborough H [4 stanzas; London hills; opening stanza Nelly's Constancy/I love my mother]
Oh Willie- Mary Lou Bell (VA) 1932 [4 stanzas non-conforming - version of B, Cruel Father]
London City- Dock Stinnett (TN) c.1933 Henry B [8 stanzas; London City; same town]
Rambling Rowdy Boy- Rena Hicks (NC) 1933 Henry F [6 stanzas; non-conforming; version of B, Cruel Father]
Butcher Boy- Mrs. Schell (NC) 1933 Matteson [7 stanzas; yonder city; a house]
Butcher's Boy- Molly Jackson (KY) 1935 Lomax [3 stanzas; non-conforming as sung to Careless Love; Johnson City; same town]
Butcher's Boy- Jimmy Morris (KY) 1937 Lomax [7 stanzas; London city; a place; extra (Must I go) has 2 line fence/sense ending]
Railroad Boy- Nell Hampton (KY) 1937 Lomax REC [8 1/2 stanzas; Jersey City; a place]
Butcher's Boy- Farmer Collett (KY) 1937 Lomax [incomplete transcription; old London City]
In Jersey City- Minnie Curtis (NC) 1937 Abrams A [7 stanzas; Jersey City; a house]
Butcher's Boy- Irving Caldwell (KY) 1937 Lomax [8 stanzas; London City; strange girl in this town]
Butcher's Boy- Virgie Bailey (KY) 1937 Lomax [9 stanzas; opening stanzas conform possibly to B, Cruel father or are unique]
Butcher's Boy- Liza Stewart (KY) 1937 Lomax REC [6 1/2 stanzas; London City; same town; some variation in ending; extra stanza]
London City- Edith Walker (NC) 1939 Brown 4K [6 stanzas; London City same city; ending has variation with "willow tree"]
Butcher's Boy- James York (NC) 1939 Brown B [9 stanzas; Johnson City; same town; extra stanza [Must I go bound/oranges)]
Butcher's Boy- Smith/Combs (KY) 1939 Combs [8 1/2 stanzas; London city; some old town "railroad boy"; extra stanza [apron low) and extra 1/2 stanza (fence/sense)]
Butcher's Boy- Blue Sky Boys (NC) 1940 REC [8 stanzas; London City; strange girl in this town]
Rude & Rambling Boy- Buna Hicks (NC) 1941 Warner [4 1/2 stanzas; version of B, Cruel father; 2 1/2 stanzas in common]
In London Street- anon (NC) c.1942 Abrams B [2 stanza fragment; London Street; strange house]
Boston Town- Virginia Bowers (NC) 1943 Brown D [only 2 stanzas given; Boston town]
Boston Town- Virginia Hartsell (NC) 1943 Brown C [only 1 stanza given; Boston Town; extra 1/2 stanza (Shall I Go bound)]
Butcher Boy- Bell Lambert (NC) 1943 Brown F [7 stanzas; New York City; extra 1 1/2 stanzas (young and free) (No, no, apple/lily tree) as 1/2 of stanza 2 and all of 3]
In Boston Town- Eva Furr (NC) 1943 Brown G [only ending given; Boston Town; (see Brown D) ("let me down with a golden chain")]
In Johnson City- Ella Smith (NC) 1943 Brown J [3 stanzas; Johnson City; only one line given]
As I Walked Out- Eden Hash (TN) 1947 McDowell A [7 stanzas; non-conforming has parts of 3 standard; extra stanzas (Morning fair) (he's gone) (I wish, I wish) (heart-ease); The "morning fair" and "heart-ease" stanzas are rare, while "I wish" is more common.]
Forsaken Girl- Eden Hash (TN) 1947 McDowell B [6 stanzas; hybrid with 3 standard stanzas; extra stanzas (little sparrow) (I wish, I wish) (deep blue sea/orphan). The "little sparrow" and "deep blue sea/orphan" appear in at least three other variants; usually together.]
Butcher Boy- Mrs. Gilley (TN) 1947 McDowell C [9 stanzas; London City; strange house; extra stanza (Must I Go bound/oranges)
Johnson City- Robert Wallace (AL) 1948 Arnold [7 stanzas; Johnson City; same town]
Railroad Boy- Mrs. Hornbeak (FL) 1950 Morris A [4 stanzas; Jersey City; another place
Butcher's Boy- Mrs. Brady (FL) 1950 Morris B [9 stanzas; London city; very same town; extra (Must I go bound/oranges)]
Butcher Boy- Effie Tucker (TN) 1953 Boswell [8 stanzas; London city; strange house]
Farmer's Boy- J. Ralph Vass (VA) 1959 Shellans [9 stanzas; yonder city; strange place]
Morning Fair- Frank Proffitt (NC) 1962 REC [8 stanzas- hybrid version with 3 1/2 varied stanzas standard; extra stanzas (morning fair) (she gave me cake) (father gave me land) last compares to Irish version of B]
Butcher Boy- Edwin Mays (OH-VA) 1962 Winkelman
Go Dig my Grave- Watson/Ritchie (KY-NC) 1963 REC [5 1/2 stanzas with 2 line chorus; recreation of Kazee's version with other traditional material from unknown sources]
I Wish, I Wish- Dillard Chandler (NC) 1965 REC [2 stanzas- variant of I Wish I Wish; 2nd stanza apple tree reconstructed]
Butcher Boy- Lem Griffis (GA) 1966 Burrison [6 1/2 stanzas- London City; downtown; extra stanzas (I love you Johnny) and 1/2 stanza (I Wish I Wish)]
Down in Adairsville- Hedy West (GA) 1967 REC [5 stanzas "farmer's boy"; Adairsville; another house; extra (Must I go bound/orange)
Alabama City- Mrs. Carter (AL) 1968 Dill [4 1/2 stanzas "cotton-mill boy," Alabama City; (Must I go bound/orange)]
Butcher's Boy- Buell Bush (WV) c.1971 Bush II [8 stanzas; London city; strange house; extra (Must I go bound)]
Butcher Boy- Dimple Savage Thompson (KY) 1975 [8 stanzas; London; same town]
London City- Morgan Sexton (KY) pre1976 REC [6 stanzas; London city; same town; ending 2 line (fence/sense)]
Butcher Boy- Betty Smith (NC) 1981 REC [7 stanzas; London city; two extra stanzas (I wish/cherry tree) (babe was born)]
Butcher's Boy- Arwoods (NC) 1983 Yates [7 stanzas; London city; strange house; extra (Must I go bound)]
Butcher Boy- Russell Lahew (WV) c. 1997 Davies [8 stanzas; London city; (Must I go bound/ orange)]

The versions from the South have a significant amount of variety. There are 7 hybrid versions with mostly non-conforming stanzas and 6 versions of B, Cruel Father, with several others using one stanza perhaps from B. "London City" is by far the most popular location with "Jersey City" a distant second used in 7 versions. There are 5 Johnson City version and 4 versions use Boston as the city or town; this is followed by New York City with 2 and Jefferson City, Alabama City; North Carolina and Tarlborough. He meets a girl usually in "the same town" or in a "strange house/place" that he takes upon his knee.
In Kentucky the "butcher boy" changes trades and is frequently a "railroad boy." Two versions resemble the short "I wish" versions (Roud 495) of the UK. A dozen versions have the popular "Must I Go bound/oranges" stanza some with the "foolish part" ending which is rare. Two variants of Must I go bound which use instead "young and free/ no, no, that can never be." There are several "apron low" stanzas and "I wish" which are rare in North America.

Richie


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Subject: RE: Origins: Died for Love Sources: PART IV
From: Richie
Date: 05 May 17 - 11:09 AM

Hi,

The rough draft of US/Canada headnotes is done: http://www.bluegrassmessengers.com/us--canada-versions-7-died-for-lovebutcher-boy.aspx Still have to add footnotes. Here's the next region:

The Midwest (and West) region includes Michigan; Wisconsin; Ohio; Indiana; Illinois and states west of the Mississippi River including Missouri and Iowa. The three total versions from Utah, Wyoming and California are arbitrarily included here. Michigan and Wisconsin would be influenced by New England/Canada versions while Indiana and Ohio could be influenced by either expansion from New England or from Appalachia across the Ohio River. Dividing Missouri and Arkansas (Southwest) is problematic as they are combined in various Ozark collections (Randolph/Parler etc). Here are the 48 versions from the Midwest-- a third of them are fragments:

Butcher Boy- Lorraine Purvis (IO) c.1870 Stout H [8 1/2 stanzas; Jersey City; an inn]
Died for Love- Mrs. Gray (IN) c. 1875 Henry F [Last stanza only]
Butcher Boy- Ida M. Cromwell (IO) c.1898 Rogers [7 stanzas; Jersey City; an inn]
Butcher Boy- The Stanley's (IO) c.1901 Stout A [7 stanzas; Jersey City; an inn]
Butcher Boy- Eva Packard (MO) 1903 Belden A [7 stanzas; Jersey City; same town]
Butcher Boy- Mr. Vaughan (MO) 1903 Belden B [8 stanzas; Jersey City; a house]
Butcher Boy- Nellie Martin (SC-MO) 1906 Belden C [6 stanzas of 6 lines; Jersey City; extra stanza (Apron low)]
Foolish Girl- Ada Belle Cowden (MO) 1909 Belden D [only two lines given; London city]
Adieu- Shirley Hunt (MO) 1911 Hamilton/Belden C [5 stanzas non-conforming; "Adieu" is chorus; 4 extras stanza (evening fair) (Must I go bound) (blue-eyed boy) (got a friend)]
Turtle Dove- A.F.Nelson (WI-MO) 1913 Belden F [only one stanza given; Jersey City]
Butcher's Boy- Lillian Boswell (WY) 1914 Pound A [7 1/2 stanzas Jersey City; a house]
Butcher's Boy- Jane Goon (OH) 1915 JAF Eddy A [8 1/2 stanzas; New Jersey city; same town]
Little Sparrow- Ella Taylor (IN) 1916 Tolman [4 stanzas non-conforming; 1 stanza Butcher Boy; 3 extra (Little sparrow) (dark blue sea/orphan) (I wish I wish)]
Blue Eyed Boy - Frances Ries (OH) 1927 Sandburg A [7 stanzas non-conforming uses Careless Love form last 4 stanzas; has 2 extra stanzas (blue -eyed boy) (Must I go bound); ends with (fence/ sense)]
Butcher Boy- B. Anderson (MO) 1928 Randolph A [6 1/2 stanzas; yonder city; a house]
Butcher Boy- Ruth Hains (MO) 1928 Randolph C [4 stanzas; Jersey City]
I Wish, I Wish- Violet Justis (MO) 1929 Randolph B [4 stanzas only extras stanzas given (I wish I wish) (aprons long) (old for the new) (Must I be bound).
In Jersey City- Bessie Martin (MI) 1930 Gardner A [10 stanzas; Jersey City; same town; two extra stanzas (aprons low) (I wished/orange)]
Butcher Boy- Mrs. Peter Miller (MI) 1931 Gardner B [8 stanzas; one given; Jersey City]
False Lover- Parmer/Robbins (IO) 1931 Stout B [8 stanzas; Jersey City; an inn]
Butcher Boy- Rubye Krueger (IO) 1931 Stout C [last stanza only]
Butcher Boy- Mrs. Willer (IO) c.1931 Stout D [1 1/2 stanza; first and last; Jersey City]
Butcher Boy- Bernice Voege (IO) c.1931 Stout E [first stanza only; Jersey City]
Butcher Boy- Mrs. Olson (IO) c.1931 Stout F [1/2 first stanza; New York City]
Butcher Boy- Iva Ehlers (IO) c.1931 Stout G [first stanza only; Jersey City]
Butcher's Boy- A. Lauterbach (IO) c.1931 Stout I [6 stanzas; Jersey City]
Butcher Boy- Otto Rayburn (MO) 1932 Randolph D [final stanza (fence/sense)]
Georgia City- William Rabidue (MI) 1935 Gardner C [first stanza only; Georgia City]
Butcher Boy- Mrs. Rothrock (IN) 1935 Brewster A [7 stanzas; Jersey City; an inn]
Butcher's Boy- Mrs. Vaughan (IN) 1935 Brewster B [8 stanzas; Jersey City; very same town]
Butcher's Boy- Ken Williams (IN) 1935 Brewster C [5 stanzas; London City; strange town; extra stanza (deep blue sea/orphan girl)]
Butcher's Boy- Ben Rice (MO) 1937 LOC REC [9 1/2 stanzas; no city named; a place]
Butcher Boy- Pearl Nye (OH) 1937 J. Lomax [5 stanzas; London City; strange town; extra stanza (deep blue sea/orphan girl) cf. Brewster C]
Jefferson City- Knefelkamp (IL) 1938 Neely A [about 8 stanzas (some text missing) Jefferson City]
Butcher Boy- Dave Adamson (IL) 1938 Neely B [some text missing; Jersey City]
Butcher Boy- Clara Walpert (IL) 1938 Neely C [4 1/2 stanzas Jersey City same town]
Butcher Boy- Ida Thompson (IL) 1938 Neely D [text missing; Jefferson City]
Jersey City- Melissa Moores (OH) 1939 Eddy A [9 stanzas; Jersey City; an inn (close to print)]
Butcher's Boy- Mrs. Warner (OH) 1939 Eddy B [8 1/2 stanzas; Jersey City; an inn]
Butcher's Boy- May Kennedy McCord (MO) 1939 Owens [7 stanzas; London City; a house]
Butcher's Boy- L. Short (MO) 1941 Randolph E [8 stanzas Jersey city; another house]
Butcher Boy- Salley Hubbard (UT) 1947 Hubbard [6 stanzas Dublin Town; a house; two extra stanzas (Apron low) (babe was born)]
Butcher Boy- Mrs. Robert Hill (MO) 1950 Parler E [9 stanzas; London City; a strange house; extra (Must I go bound)]
Butcher Boy- E.L. Simons (IN) 1951 Simons Family [7 stanzas; Jersey City; an inn]
Butcher Boy- Ina Harvey (MO) 1958 Hunter C [5 1/2 stanzas; first stanzas missing]
Butcher's Boy- Dorothy Ross (MO) 1959 Hunter D [9 stanzas; London City; a strange house; extra (Must I go bound)]
Butcher Boy- Bill Ping (CA) 1972 Hunter B [9 stanzas; Jersey City; tavern; extra (heart-ease)]

Richie


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Subject: RE: Origins: Died for Love Sources: PART IV
From: GUEST,Banjimer
Date: 05 May 17 - 07:22 PM

A discussion in an earlier version of this thread contained quite a bit of information about Nathan Hicks and his son-in-law, Frank Proffitt. I've done extensive genealogical research into the extended Hicks and Proffitt families. Frank was indeed Nathan's son-in-law having married Bessie Mae Hicks, Nathan's daughter, on April 20, 1932 in Johnson County, Tennessee. Frank's father was William Wiley Proffitt, the son of John Wesley Proffitt and Phoebe Pardue. The Proffitt tradition held that "Tom Dooley" was passed down from Phoebe Pardue, who had grown up in Wilkes County near the area of the Laura Foster, Ann Melton, Tom Dooley love triangle. However, Laura Foster's murder occurred after Phoebe had moved with her family to Johnson County, Tennessee where she married John Wesley Proffitt in 1867. So Phoebe was no longer living in Wilkes County, North Carolina at the time of the murder and trial. G.B. Grayson, who recorded "Tom Dooley" as a member of Grayson and Whitter, grew up in Laurel Bloomery, Johnson County, Tennessee (the same area where John Wesley Proffitt and Phoebe Pardue) were living immediately following the Civil War and the murder of Laura Foster. Frank Proffitt could have easily heard Grayson and Whitter performing the song locally. Or Frank Proffitt could have learned the song from the recording of Grayson and Whitter. Frank Proffitt's copyright claim was based upon the lyrics, some of which Proffitt claims he added to the version handed down in his family. Frank could not have learned "Tom Dooley" directly from his grandmother, Phoebe Pardue, because she had been dead for over 25 years before Frank was born. However, he could have learned the song from his father or one of his aunts or uncles. Regarding Nancy Prather, she was Frank Proffitt's paternal aunt (not great-aunt). Nancy was the sister of William Wiley Proffitt, Frank's father. Nancy and her husband, Alexander Ira Prather, moved to Watauga County, North Carolina at the same time as William Wiley Proffitt. On another interesting note, Frank Proffitt was an only child. His mother, Rebecca Creed Waters, had been married previously to Albert Waters, who died before 1910. Albert and Rebecca had three children: Henry Waters, Ida Waters, and Mae Waters. In the 1920 Watauga County, North Carolina Census, the Waters children are incorrectly listed with the surname "Proffitt". However, they were Frank's step-siblings. Frank was the only child fathered by William Wiley Proffitt. The others were fathered by Albert Waters. Although they are never mentioned, Frank Proffitt's maternal grandparents also lived in Beaverdam Township in Watauga County, North Carolina. His maternal grandfather was Sanford Jefferson Creed, and his maternal grandmother was Nancy Jane (Virginia/Jennie) Wood. His musical influences appear to be limited to the Proffitt side of his family and his in-laws, the family of Nathan Hicks.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Died for Love Sources: PART IV
From: Richie
Date: 05 May 17 - 08:20 PM

Hi,

Thanks for the info on Nancy Prather, as it relates to Frank's version Morning Fair, a hybrid of Butcher Boy, which is attributed to her. I've also heard Frank's "Tom Dooley" attributed to Nancy Prather. Do you agree, or have you heard this? Where did Nancy get her songs?

Richie


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Subject: RE: Origins: Died for Love Sources: PART IV
From: Richie
Date: 05 May 17 - 09:30 PM

Hi Banjimer,

I've got several articles on Frank Proffitt and one by Frank on my site: http://www.bluegrassmessengers.com/nathan-hicks-frank-proffitt-hicks-family.aspx

It's a mess, but there's probably over 1,000 pages there put on mostly in a month or two a couple years ago.

My grandfather Maurice Matteson knew Nathan Hicks, visited him a couple times and bought a dulcimer from him about 1933. I've played his dulcimer and recorded a couple songs on it. Not sure if he knew Frank Proffit well. My grandfather brought my father to Beech Mountain NC when he was just six and my father met Ray Hicks, the tall one! My grandfather showed Hick's dulcimer to Frank Warner in New York about 1938 which led to the Warner's coming down to NC.

Please feel free to post. Frank mentioned his father who made banjers as well as his sister and brother. He also mentioned his grandfather on his father's side, think his name was John.

* * * *

Here are the The Southwest region songs from Arkansas; Mississippi; Louisiana; Kansas and Texas. Following are 27 versions from the Southwest.

Butcher Boy- Almeda Riddle (AR) c.1912 Wolf [7 stanzas; Jersey City; extra 1 1/2 stanza (young and free/apples)]
Rambling Boy- anon (US west) 1916 John Lomax [8 stanzas version of B, Cruel Father]
Butcher Boy- Mrs. G. V. Easley (MS) 1926 Hudson A [8 stanzas; a village; a house]
In Kosciusko- Sanford Hughston (MS) 1926 Hudson B [8 1/2 stanzas; Kosciusko; extra stanza (deep blue sea/orphan); extended ending]
Wrecked & Rambling Boy- Hellums (MS) 1926 Hudson C [6 stanzas; Version of B, Cruel Father; extra stanza (I love you Willie)]
Grieve, Oh Grieve- Sam Hinton (TX) 1927 REC [2 stanzas with "Go dig my grave" as chorus; part of "adieu" songs]
Butcher Boy- anon (AR) 1927 Farm Life [7 stanzas; New York City; (young and free/apples) cf. Riddle]
My Love Willie- Hippolyte Dupont (LA) 1934 Lomax [7 stanzas sung in French; village; house; extra (there is a bird) 2 stanzas not translated]
Through the Meadow She Ran- Dusenberry (AR) 1936 [7 stanza hybrid; a house; extra 3 stanzas from Constant Lady]
Butcher's Boy- G. McCarty (AR) 1941 Randolph F [only first stanza given; Londers City]
Butcher Boy- Mrs. Wasson (AR) 1941 Randolph G [only extra stanza given (Must I go bound/oranges)]
Butcher Boy- Arlie Freeman (AR) 1942 Randolph H [only extra stanza given (Must I go bound/oranges)]
Butcher Boy - Goldie Gardner (AR) 1953 Parler C [3 stanzas; Newport Town]
Butcher's Boy- Inez Gibson (AR) 1956 Parler G [8 stanzas; London City; strange house; 1/2 stanza (Must I go bound)]
Butcher's Boy- Vesta Belt (KS) 1957 O'Bryant [6 stanzas; Kansas city; 2 extra stanzas (land of love) (apron low)]
Butcher Boy - Lucy Quigley (AR) 1958 Hunter A [6 stanzas London City; this town]
Butcher Boy- Gladys McChristian (AR) 1958 Parler D [6 stanzas; Jersey city; a house]
Soldier Boy- Pearl Brewer (AR) 1958 Parler F [4 stanzas; beginning missing]
Butcher's Boy- Buck Buttery (AR) 1958 Parler H 7 stanzas; [New York City; extra (young and free/apples)]
Butcher Boy- Mildred Ratliff (AR) 1959 Parler A [6 stanzas; Jersey City; a house (I wish, I wish)]
Butcher Boy - Bessie Atchley (AR) 1960 Parler B [9 stanzas; London City; strange house; extra stanza (Must I go bound)]
Poor Girl- Lora Moore Jasper (AR) 1962 Parler I [3 stanzas; yonder's town]
Oh, Willie- Rod Drake (TX) 1952 Owens [5 stanzas; version of B, Cruel father]
Butcher's Boy- Sam Hinton (TX) 1966 REC [6 stanzas; Jersey city; an inn]
Butcher Boy- Ollie Gilbert (AR) 1969 Hunter E [6 stanzas; London City; same town]
Butcher Boy- Roy Wrinkle (AR) 1969 Hunter G [6 stanzas; London City]
I Died for Love- Dale Klugg (AR) 1969 Hunter F [5 stanzas, first missing; strange house; extra stanza (Must I go bound)]

The Southwest continues the tradition of the South. There are 5 London City versions and 4 Jersey city versions along with a variety of other city names. The butcher boy visits another girl at a "strange house" or "house."

Richie


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Subject: RE: Origins: Died for Love Sources: PART IV
From: Richie
Date: 07 May 17 - 01:52 PM

Hi,

Rough draft of US/Canada headnotes is done, I've added footnotes:

http://www.bluegrassmessengers.com/us--canada-versions-7-died-for-lovebutcher-boy.aspx

Comments welcome. Here's the text for A (I Wish; Alehouse) from British & Other Versions which is nearing completion:

A, represents the general theme of the Died for Love ballads and includes the "I wish, I Wish" and "Alehouse" variants. A has random core stanzas about the maid's tragic situation. Her situation in the A ballads is identified by the following life events, some of which may be missing in different versions:

1) A maid has been abandoned by a false lover, who goes to an alehouse, house or tavern and takes another girl on his knee.
2) He now loves another girl who has more means (gold) than she. This new girl will lose the gold and her beauty will fade and she will become like his former lover.
3) The maid is pregnant and there may be stanzas about "when her apron was low, he followed her through frost and snow. . ."
4) She wishes she was a maid again
    But a maid again I never shall be
    Till an apple grows on an orange tree.
5) She wishes also her child could be born
    And sitting on his daddy's/a nurse's knee.

The "maid again" stanza is an established part of A. In Popular Song at Juniper Hill by Michael Pickering [Folk Music Journal, Vol. 4, No. 5 (1984), pp. 481-503] Pickering mentions a familiar floating verse that Flora Thompson said was popular and frequently sung at Juniper Hill, North Oxfordshire in the 1880s:

I wish, I wish, 'twas all in vain,
I wish I were a maid again!
A maid again I ne'er shall be
Till oranges grow on an apple tree.

In her 1899 article in the first volume of the Journal of the Folk-Song Society, titled "Some Experiences of a Folk-Song Collector," Kate Lee recounts her first collecting experience:

However, I persisted, and sat outside, and she gave me some very bad tea, and I heard these lads wearily droning through a song which they sang together in unison, stamping their feet to the time. I afterwards recognized it at once, when I saw it in print, as being 'Sweet William,' arranged in English County Songs. The lads' version of it seemed to go on for ever and ever, and the only words of the refrain which I could catch were:-

'For a maid, a maid I shall never be,
Till apples grows on an orange tree.'

The song must have had at least a hundred verses, for they didn't sing any other all the time I was there.


The Died for Love and related song family, as well as having a number of core stanzas, has incorporated similar unrequited love stanzas from similar ballads and broadsides. Evidence of these stanzas is found in the 11 stanza "Brisk Young sailor," a broadside W. Pratt of Birmingham c.1850. The stanzas of A are missing any concrete plot and the suicide. This early broadside, Aa, copied down by Baring Gould about 1888, represents the some of the core stanzas of A:

The Effects of Love - A New Song; London, no imprint; c. 1780.

    O! Love is hot, and Love is cold,
    And love is dearer than any gold;
    And love is dearer than any thing,
    Unto my grave it will me bring.

    O when my apron it hung low,
    He followed me thro' frost and snow;
    But now I am with-child by him,
    He passes by and says nothing.

    I wish that I had ne'er been born,
    Since love has proved my downfall;
    He takes a stranger on his knee,
    And is this not a grief to me.

    I wish that my dear babe was born,
    And dandled on its daddy's knee,
    And I in the cold grave did lie,
    And the green grass grew over me.

    Ye Christmas winds when will ye blow;
    And blow the green leaves off the tree,
    O, gentle Death, when will you call,
    For of my life I am quite weary.

The first and last stanzas of Effects of Love are not core stanzas, but stanzas 2-5 represent an early version of "I Wish, I Wish" recently categorized as Roud 495. In standard versions the "I Wish" stanzas are combined with the two "Alehouse" stanzas (see core stanzas) which ties A firmly to Roud 60. Versions with the "Brisk Young Lover" opening are categorized as D and frequently share the other stanzas of A. The variants of A have two different endings. An alternative ending (see below) is found after the two "I wish" stanzas. Many versions of A borrow one or two stanzas and the ending from the broadside, The Constant Lady and False-hearted Squire dated 1686. The broadside ending sometimes is used: The maid lays down on a bed of flowers she has prepared and dies of a broken-heart.

Parts of the core stanzas found in A of "Alehouse" were derived from several older broadsides including Nelly's Constancy (c. 1686), and The Jealous Lover (c. 1686). Additional stanzas have been attached to Died for Love from other broadsides especially the previously mentioned Constant Lady and False-hearted Squire (c. 1686) broadside. Its antecedents "The Deceased Maiden Lover" and a companion ballad, "The Faithlesse Lover," were printed together on a single sheet by "the Assignes of Thomas Symcocke" about 1628. "The Deceased Maiden Lover" was fashioned from lutenist Robert Johnson's c.1611 ballad "A Forsaken Lover's Complaint."

Alehouse core stanzas:

There is an alehouse in yonder town,
Where my love goes and sits him down;
He takes a strange girl on his knee,
O don't you think that's grief to me?

O grief, O grief, I'll tell you why,
Because she's got more gold than I.
But her gold will waste, and her beauty blast;
Poor girl, she'll come like me at last[].

Alehouse has been regarded as separate from Brisk Young Lover (Sailor) by Kittredge (see his analysis in 1916 JAFL) and also by MacColl who wrote a page of notes in his Travellers book. For these reasons and others I've separated "Alehouse" from the versions with the "Brisk Young Sailor opening stanza. The two "I Wish" stanzas generally follow the two core Alehouse stanzas and the "frost and snow" stanza:

When first I wore my apron low,
He followed me through frost and snow,
But now my apron is up to my chin,
He passes by and says nothing.

A, therefore is identified by these five core stanzas:

Alehouse (I Wish) core stanzas

1. There is a house in yonder town,
Where my love goes and sits him down;
He takes a strange girl on his knee,
O don't you think that's a grief to me?

2. A grief, a grief, I'll tell you why,
Because she's got more gold than I.
But her gold will waste, and her beauty blast;
Poor girl, she'll come like me at last.

3. For when my apron-strings were low,
He followed me thro' frost and snow;
But now they are up to my chin,
He passes by and says nothing.

4 "I wish, I wish, but 'tis all in vain,
I wish I was a maid again;
A maid again I ne'er shall be,
Till an apple grows on an orange tree."

5. I wish my baby it was born,
Set smiling on its father's knee,
And I was dead and in my grave,
And green grass growing over me.

Notice that there's no resolution to the maid's dilemma, she "wishes she was dead and in her grave" and her death may be impending but there's no indication when of if she will die. Both stanzas 4 and 5 are used as ending stanzas and both provide no finality to the fate of the maid. Only when a stanza is added from "Constant Lady" is her death apparent. This was sung by Emma Overd of Langport, Somerset on August 19, 1904 (Sharp MS):

She chose the green grass for her bed
And a wreath of roses round her head;
She closed her eyes and never more spoke
Alas, poor girl, her heart was broke.

Richie


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Subject: RE: Origins: Died for Love Sources: PART IV
From: Richie
Date: 07 May 17 - 03:57 PM

Hi,

This excerpt also from "British & Other Versions" present the UK versions of Butcher Boy in a more complete way:

E, The Butcher Boy, has rarely been found in the UK and is an American variant with the "Alehouse" stanzas found in A and a unique opening stanza. The core stanzas printed in broadsides from Philadelphia (1858) and New York (c.1860s) begin: "In Jersey City." The name "Jersey" as found also in "New Jersey" is named after the Isle of Jersey off the coast of south England and France. The origin of the broadside text seems to be a single arrangement of a traditional version from New England which was reprinted. Belden says in "Songs and Ballads (1940)" that "the 'in Jessie's city' of the Essex text in JFSS II 159 looks as if this text had traveled back from America to England." Steve Gardham has also expressed similar sentiments. This is the evidence of Butcher Boy/Jersey City in the UK and British Colonies:

1) In Jessie's City- from maid (Essex) 1905 R.V. Williams
2) In Jersey City- sung by Miss F. Watts and Miss A. Teesdale 1943 [From Late Joys at the Players' theatre - page 69; Jean Anderson (acting director of the Players' theatre, London) - 1943.
3) Jersey City- sung by Mrs. Julia Barnes of Chideock, Dorset as collected by Peter Kennedy in 1952 (single stanza).
4) The Butcher Boy- sung by Sarah Makem of Keady, County Armagh, Northern Ireland. From one of Sarah Makem's two 1956 recordings made by Diane Hamilton.
5) The Butcher Boy- sung by "Queen" Caroline Hughes of Blandford, Dorset in in April 1968. Taken from Topic anthology "I'm a Romany Rai."

British Colonies:
1) The Butcher Boy- text (written down by Agnes Rogers) from Lily Green, a native of Tristan da Cunha c. 1938. The Song Tradition of Tristan da Cunha; 1970 by Peter Munch.
2) The Butcher Boy- sung by Maybelle Simmonds of Lowlands, Nevis, collected c. 1962.

Certainly the popularity of Butcher Boy in the US and the number of prints that could easily have made their way to the UK are points validating the "crossing over" theory of Belden and Gardham.

One thing is clear, the "Butcher Boy" ballad was brought to America long before 1860 when the "In Jersey City" versions associated with the US broadsides were printed. The two versions from British colonies, Tristan da Cunha and Nevis, show the possibility that the ballad at one time was current in Britain and was exported to the islands. This also validates the theory that Butcher Boy, with its unique opening stanza and form, was printed in the UK long ago. The missing broadside has not been discovered and the Butcher Boy dropped out of currency in the UK by the 1850s[] when it was replaced by current versions including Rambling Boy (early 1800s to 1850s) and Brisk Young Sailor (1850s). This explains how the ballad traveled to the British colonies and remote areas of North America while preserving the opening stanza and form. The original location was probably "London City" which after traveling to New England became localized and became "Jersey City." This missing broadside was probably printed by the last half of the 1700s since the ballad (through family lines) had, by my guestimation, arrived in North America in multiple areas by the late 1700s.

Richie


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Subject: RE: Origins: Died for Love Sources: PART IV
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 07 May 17 - 06:29 PM

Coming together nicely, Richie.

Classification is still a big problem but you have at least made a start on getting closer to where the problems lie. I wonder if at some point it might be worth considering a rough guide we use when classifying ballads. If 2 fairly full songs have more than 50% of material in common they could be classed as versions of each other. In songs with little narrative this is often much more difficult.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Died for Love Sources: PART IV
From: Richie
Date: 08 May 17 - 12:45 PM

Hi Steve,

The 50% rough guide is a good idea, especially if there's doubt. That doesn't work in instances where the whole text version isn't given but the ballad is identified by the collector (as in a dozen versions of Butcher Boy). The melody is also a consideration for identification which may override the 50% rule.

Here is the completed rough draft of the Headnotes of "Died for Love" I'm still working on footnotes and adding complete versions. Incomplete versions (fragments) are not listed:

http://www.bluegrassmessengers.com/7-died-for-love-brisk-young-sailorrambling-boy.aspx

I'll include the brief ending below:

Conclusions: The Died for Love songs form a large group of ballads that share a similar theme about a rejected maid who dies for the love of her false sweetheart. Usually the maid is pregnant or it's implied that she's pregnant. A unifying stanza is given at the end stating that the maid has "died for love." The versions in my Died for Love family A-J are diverse and could be considered separate ballads.

The Appendices 7A- 7V listed at the top of this page (after the Died for Love variants) are separate ballads and songs that use stanzas of the Died for Love songs or are related to them. A number of similar ballads with the "rejected maid" theme are not part of the group and some occasionally share the "Died for Love" ending stanza. A few of the ballads distantly related to the Died for Love family and extended family not found in the Appendices are worth mentioning:

1. "Early, Early in the Spring" (Laws M1 Roud #152) ["Died for Love" ending stanza]
2. "My Little Dear, So Fare You Well" (Brown II, No. 167) ["Died for Love" ending stanza; similar stanzas]
3. "Betsy Watson/Betsy Williams" [broadside: "Effects of Love"] (Roud 1493) [Similar theme, similar stanzas]
4. "Black is the Colour" (Roud 3103) [related to "Sailing Trade" and "The Colour of Amber."]
5. "Madam, I've Come Courting" (Roud 146) [related to "Ripest Apple"]
6. "Waly, Waly" (Roud 87) [listed as an appendix to Jamie Douglas; found in Child ballads study]
7. "I'm Always Drunk and Seldom Sober" (Roud 1049) [Related to "Love is Teasing" "Water is wide" "Peggy Gordon"]

Many of the broadside antecedents are covered here-- still others are found in the individual studies of the Appendices 7A- 7V. Some broadsides are missing or unavailable[]. In the future there's a chance the presumed missing British broadside of Butcher Boy may turn up or other broadsides which are antecedents of Died for Love or the extended family.

R. Matteson Jr.-- May, 2017
Port St. Lucie, Florida


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Subject: RE: Origins: Died for Love Sources: PART IV
From: Richie
Date: 11 May 17 - 10:53 PM

Hi,

Finally finished the rough draft of Died for Love with an estimated 500 complete individual versions and 70 footnotes: http://www.bluegrassmessengers.com/7-died-for-love-brisk-young-sailorrambling-boy.aspx Whew!!! Please feel free to read, add corrections or comments. There are still some typos and minor errors. I'll proof again soon.

Will finish headnotes for British & Other versions soon. Then there are the 25 appendices several of which are long and unfinished. So the posts will continue for the appendices.

Richie


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Subject: RE: Origins: Died for Love Sources: PART IV
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 12 May 17 - 01:09 PM

Have you made any plans for recuperation yet? Will have a look soon.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Died for Love Sources: PART IV
From: Richie
Date: 12 May 17 - 08:37 PM

Hi Steve,

With your help we'll try and get the appendices done. Many of them are already done- several are difficult and time-consuming.

Here are the headnotes and individual versions from the UK: http://www.bluegrassmessengers.com/british--other-versions-7-died-for-love.aspx

I'll review and edit the three Died for Love headnotes and versions at the end.

I'm working on Sailor Boy/Sweet William soon- have already started.

TY

Richie


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Subject: RE: Origins: Died for Love Sources: PART IV
From: Richie
Date: 15 May 17 - 09:01 PM

Hi,

I've started Sailor Boy, Roud 273 Laws 12, (my 7A) and have these early versions:

A. "Sailor Boy." ("It was early in Spring"). Printed by William Goggin of Mary Street, Limerick; c. 1780.
B. "Sailing Trade." ("The sailing trade is a weary trade,") chapbook, "Four Excellent New Songs," Edinburgh. Printed by J. Morren, c. 1800.
C. "Sailor Boy," ("Down by a crystal river side" ) Pitts printer, Wholesale Toy and marble war[e]house. 6 Great st Andrew street 7 dils [sic] London, 1819 and 1844.
D. "Sailor Boy and his Faithful Mary" ("A sailor's life is a merry life") Pitts printer, Wholesale Toy and marble war[e]house. 6 Great st Andrew street 7 dils [sic] London, 1819 and 1844.
E. "A Sailor's Trade Is A Roving Life (A sailor's trade is a roving life) From the log aboard the whaling ship, Elizabeth, port was New Bedford, Massachusetts 1847, Kendall repository. This is a traditional version of "Sailing Trade" in Songs the Whalemen Sang by Gale Huntington dated 1847.
F. "Sailor Boy" sung by Edward Hovington, aged 90, who learned it in Quebec about 1847 from old-country Irishman named Patrick McGouch. From: Folk Songs by C.M. Barbeau; JAFL Volume 30, 1917.
G. "The Sailor Boy" sung by Tom Sweetman, a farm worker (Ireland) from The Dublin University Magazine, August, 1862. Reprinted in The Universal Irish Song Book: A Complete Collection of the Songs and edited by Patrick John Kennedy, NYC, 1898.
H. "The Sailler Boy" written down by William Larken from Mrs. C. Froyaughehand of Cincinnati, Ohio; 1863. Ruth Ann Musick-The Old Album of William A. Larkin; JAFL Vol. 60, 1947.
I. "Sweet William (The Sailor Boy)" from Mr. C. A. Rogers of Mississippi during the Civil War (c.1864). JAF Kittredge 1917.
J. "Heart-Rending Boat Ballad" from an MS (diary) of William H. Landreth, soldier, recovered in Missouri, c. 1964.
K. "A New Song call'd the Young Lady's Lamentation for the Loss of her True Love," ("Tis early, early all in the spring) printed by P. Brereton, 1, Lower Exchange St., Dublin. c.1867.
L. "The Pinery Boy" learned in 1867 by Mrs. M.A. Olin of Eau Claire, Wisconsin from Thomas Ward as collected by Franz Rickaby.
M. "Early, Early All in the Spring" Sung by Mrs Hollings originally from Lincolnshire (c.1870?); collected by Frank Kidson; published in JFSS, 2 (1906), 293?4.
N. "The Sailing Trade" from Traditional Ballad Airs: Volume 1 edited by William Christie, 1876
O. "Sailor Boy," sung by Eileen Bleakney, of Ottawa, Canada, learned from her aunts in Belfast, Ireland c1878. From "Folk-Lore from Ottawa and Vicinity" is The Journal of American Folklore, Volume 31, published April 1, 1918.
P. "The Sailor Boy" from Ashton's "Real Sailor Songs" of 1891. Cf. B, The Sailing Trade
Q. "Sweet William" collected by Lucy Broadwood, English Country Songs, Leadenhall Press, London, 1893.
R. "Sweet William," from J. Woodrich, of Lew Trenchard Devon, c. 1894; Collected Baring Gould, MS version A. (also attributed to Sam Fone c. 1895 and may be a compilation of sorts)
S. "A Sailor's Life" sung by Henry Hills of Lodsworth from W. P. Merrick in November 1899. From Vol. 1, No. 3, Songs from the Collection of W. P. Merrick (1901), pp. 66-138. Published by: English Folk Dance + Song Society.

If anyone has any other old versions before 1900 please add them or let me know. The two early North American versions are E and F. Here's F:

"Sailor Boy" from Folk Songs by C.M. Barbeau. It dates to c. 1847 and to the early 1800s in Ireland. It's similar to the Pitts broadside with a sailor boy named "Jemmy" and the "French Ships." Here are Barbeau's notes:

Recorded in September, 1917, at Tadousac, Quebec, from Edward Hovington, aged 90, formerly a lumber-jack and canoeman in the employ of the Hudson Bay Company. While Hovington's father was a Scotch-Canadian, his mother?named Auclair?was a French-Canadian from Beauce County, P.Q. Among his large repertory of French ballads and songs, Hovington happened to remember a few English or American ones, which we are presenting here. Hovington learned "The Sailor Boy" over seventy years ago, while spending the winter at Sept-Iles, Quebec, from an old-country Irishman named Patrick McGouch, a laborer, who knew a large number of songs. (Phonograph record No. 447, Victoria Museum, Ottawa.) (Compare p. 162.)

It was early, early in the spring,
Me love and I went to serve the King.
The night [had] been stormy, and the wind blew high,
Which parted me and my sailor boy.

O father, father! get me a boat;
For it's on the ocean I will float,
And watch the French fleet [while it sails by];
[There I must] inquire for my sailor boy."

I had not sailed far on to the deep
Till a French frigate I chanced to meet.
"Come, tell me, tell me, my jovial crew!
Is my love Jummy on board with you?" ?

"Oh, no, dear lady! he is not here;
For he was drownded not far from here.
'Twas [near] that green island, as we pass by.
'Tis there we lost your fine sailor boy."

She wrung her hands and [tore] her hair
Like a virgin that falls into despair.
Her little boat began to rake around.
"What shall I do when my Jimmy is gone?

"Come, all [the] young ladies dressed in black,
And all the young sailors dressed in blue!
And the sail tip toppers all dressed in blue!
For 'tis now w' will mourn for my sailor boy!"

Richie


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Subject: RE: Origins: Died for Love Sources: PART IV
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 16 May 17 - 04:18 PM

Richie,
I have also versions by Robertson, Glasgow, 1801, 9sts
Johnston, Falkirk, 9sts, and Hutchinson, Glasgow, 1817, 8sts
Evans, London , in The Merry Songster (no copy)
And Goggin printed an Answer, 'One morning early I did rove, 13 sts.

Let me know if you want copies of any of these I have. There is an obvious interaction with oral tradition from about 1800 onwards. I have no evidence the ballad is any earlier than about 1780.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Died for Love Sources: PART IV
From: Richie
Date: 16 May 17 - 07:45 PM

Hi Steve,

I'd like a copy of

Johnston, Falkirk, 9sts, and Hutchinson, Glasgow, 1817, 8sts

When was Evans, "The Merry Songster" printed? You don't have a copy?

Richie


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Subject: RE: Origins: Died for Love Sources: PART IV
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 17 May 17 - 05:42 PM

Evans could be anything c1780 to c1820. Will email the other 2.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Died for Love Sources: PART IV
From: Richie
Date: 23 May 17 - 09:52 AM

TY Steve,

This is the second extant printed version from my North American collection. It is the first with the suicide and curiously, it is from an African-American source in North Carolina.

From: The Young Woman's Journal, Volume 11, dated 1900 by Mrs. Henry Purmort Eames. It was collected by Henry Purmort Eames probably before 1898. It is a North Carolina song written in dialect:

"MY SWEET WILLIAM."

Oh! captain, captain, tell me true,
Does my sweet Willyum sail with you?
Oh! captain, captain, tell me true,
Is my sweet Willyum with the gallant crew?

Oh no! fair maid, he is not heah,
He's drownded in some deep, I feah,
The night was dark, and the winds blewed high,
And I lost the sight of my sailor-boy.

She wrung'd her hands, she tored her ha'ah,
Jest like-a-fair maid, all in despa-ah!
She wrung'd her hands, she tored her ha-ah,
Crying, Oh! my haht is in despa'ah.

She went home to write a song:
She wrote it true, she wrote it long;
On every word she dropped a teah.
On every line cried. "Oh, my deah."

Eight lawyers they came a-riding by,
And saw her a-hangin' on a limb so high,
They took a axe and cut her down.
An' on her bress' these words was foun':

Go dig my grave both wide and deep;
Place a marble toom at my head an' feet:
An' on my breash a turtle duv,
To inform this worl' I died fur lov.

Richie


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Subject: RE: Origins: Died for Love Sources: PART IV
From: Richie
Date: 23 May 17 - 01:28 PM

Hi,

The first published text in North America was "Heart-Rending Boat Ballad," written down by William. H. Landbeth in his diary dated about 1864. It was published with its original spelling and text in 1867 by Frank Moore. Translated, it reads:

1. Father, father build me a boat
And put it on the ocean that I may float
Her father was wealthy he built her a boat
And put it on the ocean that she might float
She stopped on the boat she rode out [in] joy
Now I'll find my sweet sailor boy.

2. She hadn't been sailing far on the main,
She spied three ships come in from Spain;
She hailed each captain as he drew nigh,
And of him she did inquire of her sweet sailor boy.

3. "Captain, Captain, tell me true,
If my sweet William is in your crew?"
"I'll tell you fair lady, I'll tell you my dear
Your Sweet William is not here."

4. At the head of Rocky Island as we past by,
Will was taken sick and there did die;
She stove her boat against a rock,
I thought in my soul her heart was breaking
She wrung her hands, she tore her hair
Just like a lady in despair.

5. Go bring me a chair for to sit on,
A pen and ink for to set it down
At the end or every line she dropped a tear
At the end of every verse it was, "Oh my dear."

6. Go dig my grave both wide an deep
Put a marble stone at my head an feet
And on my breast you may carve a dove
To let the world know that I died for love.

Richie


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Subject: RE: Origins: Died for Love Sources: PART IV
From: Richie
Date: 25 May 17 - 12:12 PM

Hi,

It seems that a song adapted by John Gay (1685- 1732) and published as a poem in 1720 is a possible antecedent to Sweet William, the Sailor Boy. Among the opening lines are the obvious antecedent lines 4-6. Richard Leveridge, a London bass singer, is credited with setting the poem to music. From: John Gay, "Poems on Several Occasions" (London: Jacob Tonson and Bernard Lintot, 1720).

Sweet William's Farewell to Black-ey'd Susan: A Ballad

1 All in the Downs the fleet was moor'd,
2    The streamers waving in the wind,
3 When black-ey'd Susan came aboard.
4    Oh! where shall I my true love find!
5 Tell me, ye jovial sailors, tell me true,
6    If my sweet William sails among the crew?

The rest of the poetry by Gay is not related but still tells the same story-- the parting of the sailor, Sweet William and his love.

Richie


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Subject: RE: Origins: Died for Love Sources: PART IV
From: Richie
Date: 27 May 17 - 02:39 PM

The ballad is rare in New England. A composite version was given by Barry and a version was printed in Heart songs, 1909.

Christine Chaplin (1842-1892) was born in Maine and was active in Boston from 1878. The ballad is presented in her second book, Inside Our Gate. The author used her married name, Christine Chaplin Brush. It was published by Roberts Brothers, Boston, and written about 1884.
Here's an excerpt:

The ballad of "The Sailor Boy" made a deep impression on Douglas. He suggested learning it to repeat in Sunday-school, the only appropriateness consisting evidently in its "telling about a dead sailor." Here it is just as Mary used to sing it: ?

THE SAILOR BOY.

"Early, early in the Spring,
My love Willy went to serve the king;
The raging seas and the wind blew high,
Which parted me and my sailor b'y.

"Father, father, make me a boat,
That on the ocean I may float I
And every ship that will pass by,
I will inquire for my sailor b'y."

This lady had not gone far,
Until she met with a man-of-war,
Saying, "Captain, captain, tell me true,
If my love Willy 's on board of you."

"What color of clothes does your Willy wear?
And what's the color of your sailor's hair?"
"His hair was light and his jacket blue;
It's easily known that his heart was true."

"I fear, great lady, your Willy is gone;
I fear, great lady, your sailor is drowned.
From yon green island as we passed by
We lost nine more and your sailor b'y."

She wrung her hands and tore her hair,
Like one distracted in despair,
Saying, "How can I live when my Willy's gone?
How can I live with my sailor drowned?"

She threw her boat against the rocks,
Saying, "Captain, captain, dress in black,
And, all you sailors, come do the same,
From the cabin back to the mainmast high.
Come mourn with me for my sailor b'y;
Come mourn with me for my sailor b'y;
Come mourn with me for my sailor b'y."

The ballad is similar to the Irish broadsides and versions (see Goggins c.1770). It suggests a funeral as an ending.

Richie


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Subject: RE: Origins: Died for Love Sources: PART IV
From: Richie
Date: 28 May 17 - 08:16 PM

Hi,

Here's a great archaic version recorded in Kentucky in 1937: https://archive.org/details/afc1937001_1559B1

Black Is the Color of My True Love's Hair- sung by Uncle Rube Cassity of West Liberty, Morgan, KY on October 23, 1937. Recorded by Alan Lomax.

Black is the color of my true love's hair,
His face is like a lily fair.
Oh, if ever he returns it'll give me great joy,
For none will I have but my sweet soldier boy.

Oh captain, oh captain tell me true,
Does my sweetheart live with you?
Oh tell me quick it 'll give me great joy,
For none will I have but my sweet soldier boy.

Oh no, my little miss, oh he's not hyere,
For he was killed in battle my dear,
At the end of the junction that we passed by,
Twas where I left your true love lie.

She called fer a chair to sit upon,
A pen and ink to write it down,
A the end of every line she dropped and tear,
At the end of every verse says, "Oh my dear."

Go dig my grave both wide and deep,
Place a marble stone at my head and feet
And on my breast a turtle dove,
To show to the world that I died for love,
And on my breast a turtle dove,
To show to the world that I died for love.

Richie


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Subject: RE: Origins: Died for Love Sources: PART IV
From: GeoffLawes
Date: 29 May 17 - 09:53 AM

One version of "Died for Love" which I think has not yet been mentioned is " The Young British Waterman" as sung by Kitty Harvey of Thaxted , Essex and recorded by Peter Kennedy in 1958 . This can be heard about half way through a recording in The British Sound Archive using this link

http://sounds.bl.uk/World-and-traditional-music/Peter-Kennedy-Collection/025M-C0604X0091XX-0001V0


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Subject: RE: Origins: Died for Love Sources: PART IV
From: Richie
Date: 29 May 17 - 02:24 PM

Hi,

TY for posting that!!! You're right, I don't have it and the reason is: my computer browser won't play it. Not sure why. Is there any way you or someone can transcribe and post?

I'm nearly done with US/Canada versions of Sailor Boy they are here: http://www.bluegrassmessengers.com/us--canada-versions-7a-the-sailor-boy-.aspx

The popular "Captain Captain" stanza from Sailor Boy first appears in print in the Irish broadside "A New Song call'd the Young Lady's Lamentation for the Loss of her True Love" which was printed by P. Brereton, 1, Lower Exchange St., Dublin. c. 1867. It begins "Tis early, early all in the spring." The same stanza was already found in the US by 1863 (see for example "The Sailler Boy" taken from The Old Album of William A. Larkin by Ruth Ann Musick in The Journal of American Folklore, Vol. 60, No. 237 (Jul. - Sep., 1947), pp. 201-251). The "Captain Captain" stanza appears to have been a modification of the older "jovial crew" stanza found in first in John Gay (Black Eyed Susan- 1720) and the 1813 Catnach broadside (see my Sailor Boy, C). The "jovial crew" stanza was sung in Canada around 1847 by Edward Hovington who got it from an Irishman in Quebec.

This shows the evolution of this stanza and offers further evidence that John Gay's poem was based on an unknown version of Sailor Boy before 1720.

Tell me, ye jovial sailors, tell me true,
If my sweet William sails among the crew? [Gay- 1720]

Come tell me ye jovial ship's crew,
If my true love sails along with you.
O no fair lady he is not here,
For he is drown'd I greatly fear. [Catnach broadside 1813]

"Come, tell me, tell me, my jovial crew!
Is my love Jummy on board with you?" ?
"Oh, no, dear lady! he is not here;
For he was drownded not far from here. [Hovington, Quebec 1847]

to:

"Oh, captain, captain, tell me true,
Does my sweet Willie sail with you?"
"Oh no, he does not sail with me,
For he is drowned in the deep blue sea."

Richie


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Subject: RE: Origins: Died for Love Sources: PART IV
From: Richie
Date: 29 May 17 - 05:37 PM

Hi,

I've created four main ballad types for Sailor Boy from the broadsides with identifiers and at Steve Gardham's earlier suggestion have labeled them Oikotypes A-D. Here's what I have so far. Suggestions or comments welcome:

The extant broadsides are dated from the 1770s (see my A, titled "Sailor Boy," from Limerick) and do not have stanzas of Died for Love stanzas in them with the possible exception of the letter writing stanza-- which in Died for Love is the writing of her suicide note. The broadsides represent four different oikotypes of Sailor Boy/Sweet William which correspond to my A to D print and label versions.

Oikotype A: Irish. Begins with "Early, early in the spring" and is represented by the Irish broadsides "Sailor Boy" by Goggins c.1770 and "A New Song call'd the Young Lady's Lamentation for the Loss of her True Love," printed by P. Brereton in Dublin. c.1867. The opening two lines (and sometimes the first stanza) are also found in Early, Early in the Spring (Laws M1 Roud #152) whose antecedent is the late 17th century Seaman's Complaint for his Unkind Mistress, of Wapping. See also Croppy Boy.

Oikotype B: Scottish. Begins with "The sailing trade is a weary trade," and is represented by "Sailing Trade" printed by J. Morren, c.1800 in an Edinburgh chapbook. The opening also appears with changes such as, "A sailor's life is a weary life" which has similarities with Oikotype D. Oikotype B introduces the "color of amber" stanza which is common in many versions from North America and is similar in text to the opening of the Appalachian folksong "Black is the Colour."

Oikotype C: English also Irish. Begins "Down by a crystal river side" and is represented by Ca, "The Maid's Lament for her Sailor Boy," a London broadside by J. Catnatch printer dated between 1813 and 1838 and Cb, "Sailor Boy" by London printer Pitts dated between 1819 and 1844. The opening stanza is reminiscent of the 2nd stanza of the 1686 broadside, "Constant Lady and the False-Hearted Squire." This English oikotype also has the older text used by John Gay in 1720 (Black Eyed Susan) and can therefore be considered older than A or B. This oiktype has the French ships found in the Irish A which A may have borrowed from it.

Oikotype D: English. It begins similarly to B, "A sailor's life is a merry life" and is represented by the later broadside, "Sailor Boy and his Faithful Mary." Has the new stanza beginning, "Four-and-twenty sailors, in a row." The ships are the "Queen's ship(s)," the sailor is "sweet William" and he was last seen and presumed dead on the "green island."

All four types can be compared for details, type of ship, jacket blue etc. An ur-ballad can be constructed for each oikotype. Although some traditional versions are mixed (more than one oiktype), most conform closely to the four basic broadside oikotypes.

* * * *

A. "Sailor Boy." ("It was early in Spring"). Printed by William Goggin of Mary Street, Limerick; c. 1770.
Ba. "Sailing Trade." ("The sailing trade is a weary trade,") chapbook, "Four Excellent New Songs," Edinburgh. Printed by J. Morren, c. 1800; 10 stanzas.
- b. "Sailing Trade." ("The sailing trade is a weary trade,") chapbook by R. Hutchinson & Co. Saltmarket Glasgow, 1817. 8 stanzas.
Ca. "The Maid's Lament for her Sailor Boy," ("Down by a crystal river side"), broadside by J. Ctanatch[sic] printer, 2 Monmouth Court, London, 1813-1838.
- b. "Sailor Boy," ("Down by a crystal river side" ) Pitts printer, Wholesale Toy and marble war[e]house. 6 Great st Andrew street 7 dils [sic] London, 1819 and 1844.
D. "Sailor Boy and his Faithful Mary" ("A sailor's life is a merry life") Pitts printer, Wholesale Toy and marble war[e]house. 6 Great st Andrew street 7 dils [sic] London, 1819 and 1844.

Richie


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Subject: RE: Origins: Died for Love Sources: PART IV
From: GeoffLawes
Date: 30 May 17 - 05:23 AM

Hello Ritchie, I have typed out the words to the recording of The Young British Waterman for you. I am not a good typist but I think I have got it down correctly.

The Young British Waterman

A young British waterman courted me,
He stole away my liberty,
My liberty is of a thing most rare,
Yet for all his faults , I love him still.

There is an old alehouse in the town,
Where my love goes and sits himself down,
He takes another young girl on his knee,
He laughs at her but frowns at me.

I wish that now my babe had been born,
And sat smiling on its father's knee,
And me poor girl were in a grave,
And the green grass growing over me.

There is a flower I've oft times been told,
A cure for love for both young and old,
And if I could but that flower find,
It would ease my heart and cheer my mind.

Then down to the meadow that fair damsel ran,
Plucking the flowers as they sprang,
To every flower she gave a pull,
Until she gained her apron full,

She gathered the green grass to make her a bed,
And a flowering pillow for her head,
Then she lay down and no more she spoke,
For at last, at last, her heart was broke.

Go dig her a grave both wide ,long and deep,
With a marble stone at her head and feet,
And in the middle a turtle dove,
To tell the world she died of love.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Died for Love Sources: PART IV
From: GeoffLawes
Date: 30 May 17 - 08:24 AM

Another interesting version of Died for Love is called Silver Dagger, Turtle Dove. It begins.

In Liverpool town where I did dwell,
There lived a maid that I loved right well,
I loved a lot of others too,
And to this maid I proved untrue".

She went into the kitchen to bake some bread,
And into the oven she stuck her head,
But before this girl was dead, alas,
The money ran out on the bloody gas.

It has been recorded by Peta Webb and Ken Hall.
http://www.fellside.com/shop/fe-cd/peta-webb-ken-hall-as-close-as-can-be/

If anyone knows the origins of Silver Dagger, Turtle Dove, which I think is modern, then I would like to know.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Died for Love Sources: PART IV
From: Richie
Date: 30 May 17 - 04:43 PM

Hi,

TY for posting the texts. My typing is the worst :) Stanzas 4-6 of The Young British Waterman are from Constant Lady, a c. 1686 broadside. Great version!

I know Peta Webb, at least I've corresponded with her when she was at the Cecil Sharp House. Hilarious stanza, not sure of its pedigree.

I'll be sure to add The Young British Waterman to my collection tonight.

TY

Richie


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Subject: RE: Origins: Died for Love Sources: PART IV
From: Richie
Date: 30 May 17 - 05:38 PM

Here's my new Ca, "The Sailor Boy," from "Merry Songs," No. 15, printed by J. Evans, London, c1810.

15. The Sailor Boy

1. Down by a christal river side,
Where silver streams did sweetly glide,
I heard a fair maiden making her moan,
How can I live now my Jemmy's gone.

2. Go fetch me some little boat
That on the ocean I may float,
Thro' the French ships as they pass by
Enquiring for my sailor boy.

3. She had not sailed long on the deep
Before five sail of the French ships she did meet,
Come tell me ye jovial ship's crew,
If my true love sails along with you.

4. O no fair lady he is not here,
For he is drown'd I greatly fear,
For on yonder green island as I past by
There we did lose your poor sailor boy.

5. She wrung her hands and tore her hair
Just like a woman in despair,
Her boat against the rocks she run,
O I ne'er can live now my Jemmy's gone.

6. So come ye maids who dress in black,
That for a sailor boy you do lack,
With a black topmast and sails so wide,
Which parted me and my sailor boy.

7. Down by the silent shady grove,
There will I mourn for my true love,
And tell the small birds all my grief,
For they alone afford some relief.

This text is almost the same as the Catnatch (1813) and Pitts (1819) but it is slightly older. This oikotype seems to be the oldest and it corresponds to a few lines of text from John Gay's 1720 "Black Eyed Susan." Steve Gardham already mentioned the version-- I just came across it yesterday.

Richie


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Subject: RE: Origins: Died for Love Sources: PART IV
From: Richie
Date: 30 May 17 - 10:03 PM

Hi,

I have wondered about the word "Moment's" in Cox A which is a US version of Oikotype C. Here's the first stanza of Evans broadside (see also above):

1. Down by a christal river side,
Where silver streams did sweetly glide,
I heard a fair maiden making her moan,
How can I live now my Jemmy's gone.

Compare to Cox A, "Moment's River Side," a West Virginia version which has a similar opening:

1 Way down on Moment's river side
The wind blew fair with gentle guide;
A pretty maid that sat and mourned:
"What shall I do? My true love's gone.

A similar text is found in the opening stanzas of "A Dream" from The Nightingale; or Rural songster of Dedham [Mass.], printed by H. Mann., 1800.

SONG XLII. A DREAM.?

ONE night I dreampt I lay most easy
Down by a murmuring river's side,
Where lovely banks were spreak with daisy,
And pleasant streams did gently glide.

Whether Cox's ballad with "moment's river side" may have originally been "murm'ring river's side" is conjecture but it may explain the odd word, "moment's." The "side" and "glide" rhyme are similarly found in Oikotype C. A version of "Sailor Boy" collected by Ralph Vaughan Williams in 1907 from Mr. Flint of Sussex begins: "Down by some murmuring river side."

I suspect there may be other, older broadsides with "murmuring river's side."

Details!!!

Richie


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Subject: RE: Origins: Died for Love Sources: PART IV
From: Richie
Date: 02 Jun 17 - 05:38 PM

Hi,

TY Steve for sending this text today of a old version from Stuart M. Frank's "Jolly Sailors Bold" (2010) pp.153-155. Ironically, the title refers to my last post.

The Alexander was a Whaling ship out of Nantucket, Massachusetts owned by Christopher Mitchell & Co. The Captain was Samuel Bunker and the first mate was John P. Morris. Text from the Log dated July 17, 1824 to May 8, 1825. This Log of the Alexander is written in fairly legible long hand and is 188 pages long. The Alexander arrived back in port in 1827 with 2844 barrels sperm whale oil. One report states: "Captain Samuel Bunker, in the Alexander, in 1824, took fourteen whales from a school of sperm in one day, and saved them all."

A. "MURMERING SIDE." As written by Samuel Bunker, Captain, ship Alexander of Nantucket, 1824-27. [Original spelling kept, must be read phonetically.]

1. Down by one mumering river side
Where purling streams do gently glide
I herd a fair maid making her moarn
How can I live and my true love gone.

2. It was erley erley all in the spring
He went on board for to serve his king
The rageing seas and the winds blue high
Which parted me and my sailor boy

3. If there be thurtey all in a roe
My love he bairs the gre[a]test show
The greatest show amongst them all
I'l have my sailor or none at all

4. She built herself a little boat
That on the ocean she might float
To view all ships as they pass by
Till I find out my young sailor boy

5. She had not sailed long on the deep
Five sail of frenchman she cha[n]ced to meat
Come tell to me all ye jovi[a]l crew
Whether my love william is on board of you

6. No no fair maiden he is not here
For he is drownded poor soul I fear
We pas[s]ed yon green Islands as we passed by
lltwas there we lost our young sailor boy

7. She wrung her hands and she tore her hair
Just like some woman in great dispair
Her boat against the rocks she run
How can I live and my sailor gone

8. O this fair maid in fashon run
With pen and paper she wrote a song
At every letter she dropped atear
At every line she cried O my dear

9. O this fair maid on a sick bed fell
And for a doctor loudly did call
My pain is great and I cannot live
And she descended unto her grave.

Finis.

This traditional version written by Captain Bunker in his ship's Log between 1824-1825 has a variation of the first stanza of C, the old English broadside Sailor Boy, then uses stanza 1 of A (Goggins 1770), the Irish version which seems to have been formed from an older unknown variant of C. The "murmuring side" corresponds to the older versions found in the US of Oikotype C. This is the oldest US extant version and the second oldest extant version to Patrick Kennedy's Wexford version dated c. 1817. Kennedy's version however probably was reworked in 1856.

Richie


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Subject: RE: Origins: Died for Love Sources: PART IV
From: Richie
Date: 03 Jun 17 - 09:10 AM

Hi,

I'm giving my notes to Sailor on the Deep Blue Sea here. They are also found as my 7Aa, an appendix to Sailor Boy. They are long but not too long:

[The "Sailor on the Deep Blue Sea" also known as "Deep Blue Sea" is a short song with text from 7A. Sailor Boy as found in the US South and Southwest in the early 1900s. One stanza, the "Captain Captain" stanza has clearly been borrowed from Sailor Boy and the overall theme is similar to Sailor Boy and Died for Love songs: a maid is left or abandoned by her sailor boy, who is missing-- after learning he has drowned she vows to drown herself. The standard text is five stanzas-- the "Captain, captain" stanza from Sailor Boy and new text similar to Sailor Boy and the Died for Love theme comprise the other four stanzas. Because of its association with Sailor Boy and its general Died for Love theme (a maid abandoned who dies for love), the Sailor on Deep Blue Sea (hereafter shortened to "Deep Blue Sea") is listed as an appendix to 7A.

The Carter Family's seminal version titled, "I Have No One To Love Me (But the Sailor on the Deep Blue Sea)," was first recorded (BVE 45030-2) on May 10, 1928. It was released on Victor (V40036) in March, 1929 and Bluebird (B5356) in February, 1934. This influential recording by The Carter Family is the probable source for other recordings by Asa Martin (with Doc Roberts) and Luke Howard before 1940. The Carter Family's version entered tradition and subsequent recordings and traditional versions use their core stanzas. Recordings include Bascom Lamar Lunsford, his protege Obray Ramsey, New Lost City Ramblers, and the bluegrass favorites Flatt and Scruggs.

The Carter Family, for the most part, did not write their own songs which means their text was collected by A.P. Carter, probably in Virginia, to be used for the Carter's upcoming Victor recordings which started in August 1927 at the Bristol Sessions. Since the Carter's text should be considered traditional (the melody was usually created by the Carters from the text), the song was already in circulation in Appalachia at that time. Evidence of this earlier tradition is rare and no earlier documented versions have been found. Compare, however, to the later Alabama version collected by Ray Browne (see below).

The Sailor Boy text used in Deep Blue Sea is found in other traditional versions and composites. The 1925 Vernon Dalhardt recording "Oh Captain, Captain, Tell me True" includes the popular stanza borrowed from Sailor Boy:

1 "Oh, captain, captain, tell me true,
Does my sweet Willie sail with you?"
"Oh no, he does not sail with me,
For he is on the deep blue sea."

This same stanza, in more corrupt form, is the Carter Family's 4th stanza:

4. "Oh, captain, can you tell me,
Can you tell me where he may be?"
"Oh yes, my little maiden,
He's drownded in the deep blue sea."

The same stanza is found in some composites in the region[1] from recordings and in tradition. Since many of the subsequent recordings use the Carter's same 5 stanzas, the Carter Family's version may be the source. The song should be considered a traditional reworking of Sailor Boy from an unknown source. It's impossible, in most cases, to tell if subsequent versions are from the same traditional source as Carter's but it's more likely subsequent versions came from the Carter's seminal recording.

The antecedent stanza (Captain, Captain) from Sailor Boy first appears in print in the Irish broadside "A New Song call'd the Young Lady's Lamentation for the Loss of her True Love" which was printed by P. Brereton, 1, Lower Exchange St., Dublin. c. 1867. It begins "Tis early, early all in the spring." The same stanza was already found in the US by 1863 (see for example "The Sailler Boy" taken from The Old Album of William A. Larkin by Ruth Ann Musick in The Journal of American Folklore, Vol. 60). The "Captain Captain" stanza appears to have been a modification of the older "jovial crew" stanza found first in John Gay's 1720 "Black Eyed Susan" and printed in full by Evans[2] in 1810 (see my Sailor Boy, C).

"Sailor on the Deep Blue Sea" has been a popular song among folk and bluegrass musicians for many years. A slightly different, bluesy variant of Deep Blue Sea goes: Deep blue sea, Willie deep blue sea (3X), with a final line in each stanza: "It was Willie who got drowned in the deep blue sea." Several versions of this variant, Deep Blue Sea II, will be included here. One stanza from Sailor Boy is sometimes used in a different song, "What Does the Deep Blue Sea Say?," which will not be included in this study (see, for example, Woody Guthrie's version).

The Carters' seminal version of "Deep Blue Sea" is now given. The title, "I have No One to Love Me (But the Sailor in the Deep Blue Sea)," is unusually long and taken from the last two lines of the Carter Family's third verse:

I Have No One To Love Me (But the Sailor in the Deep Blue Sea)

1. It was on last Sunday evening
Just about the hour of three,
When my darling started to leave me,
To sail on the deep blue sea.

2. He promised to write a letter,
he promised to write to me,
and I haven't heard from my darling,
who sails on the deep blue sea.

3. My mother is dead and buried,
My papa's forsaken me,
And I have no one to love me,
but the sailor on the deep blue sea.

4. "Oh, captain, can you tell me,
Can you tell me where he may be?"
"Oh yes, my little maiden,
He's drownded in the deep blue sea."

5. Farewell to friends and relations,
This is the last you'll see of me,
I'm going to end my troubles
By drowning in the deep blue sea.

Only stanza 4 can be considered to be directly from the "Sailor Boy" tradition. Other stanzas, like the 1st and 5th, are rewritten from the Sailor Boy story. In the Sailor Boy ballad when the maid finds out from the Captain that Willie is dead she crashes her boat into the rocks or jumps into the sea and drowns[3]. In Deep Blue Sea the maid is "planning to do the same but hasn't done it yet.

The Carter's version was taken from a folk song similar to the one given in "The Alabama Folk Lyric: A Study in Origins and Media of Dissemination" by Ray Broadus Browne in 1979. This fragment was sung by Mrs R. A. Dunham, Fairhope, Baldwin County, Alabama in 1953:

"Go Bring Me Back the One I Love"

Oh Captain, Captain tell me true,
Does my true lover sail with you?"
"No, he does not sail with me,
He's with the mermaids in the sea."

Bring back the one I love,
Oh, bring, oh bring him back to me.
They say he loves another now,
Oh, he's not keeping his vows.

The similarities are obvious yet this version is clearly not copied from the Carters and is also a loose variant of Sailor Boy. At some point, the Carter Family version entered tradition. The "deep blue sea" stanzas from Carters became the core stanzas for later versions which formed a new group of "deep blue sea" variants recorded by Lunsford, Ramsey, Seeger, Lester Flatt and others. Since the "new" variants are almost identical to the Carters, evidence that the "new" versions are from an earlier tradition is lacking. Here's one version by the Minstrel of the Appalachians, Bascom Lamar Lunsford[4]:

Sailor on the Deep Blue Sea

1. It was on one Sunday evening
Just about the hour of three,
My darling went and left me,
To sail on the deep blue sea.

2. He promised to write me a letter,
He promised to write to me,
But I haven't heard from my darling,
Since he sailed on the deep blue sea.

3. "Oh, captain, can you tell me,
Can you tell me where he may be?"
"Oh yes, my little maiden,
He's drownded in the deep blue sea."

4. My mother is dead and buried,
My papa has forsaken me,
And I have no one to love me,
but the sailor on the deep blue sea.

5. Then go tell all my friends and loved ones,
Where ever they may be,
I'm going to end my troubles
By drowning in the deep blue sea.

Lunsford probably learned his version at the Mountain Dance and Folk Festival in Asheville, or another folk festival. When the Carter Family version is compared, the differences are minor and it would suggest that this and subsequent similar versions are derived from the Carters' version. Traditional collected versions may also come from the Carters. This version from Ozark Folksongs, was collected by Vance Randolph from Grace Hahn in Arkansas dated 1941:

SAILOR ON THE DEEP BLUE SEA.

He promised to write me a letter,
He promised to write to me;
But I haven't heard from my darling,
Who is sailing on the deep blue sea.

"Oh, captain, can you tell me,
Can you tell me where he may be?"
"Oh yes, my pretty maiden,
He is drownded in the deep blue sea."

Farewell to friends and relations .
This is the last you'll see of me,
For I'm going to end my troubles
By drownding in the deep blue sea.

The few traditional versions (Randolph; Parler) collected in the Ozarks still have only the Carters' core stanzas. Perhaps the only composite version (with additional stanzas) of Deep Blue Sea was collected from Ollie Gilbert[5] by Max Hunter in 1970:

Deep Blue Sea- As sung by Ollie Gilbert, Mountain View, Arkansas on March 11, 1970

VERSE 1
I once had a sweetheart
Sweetheart brave an' true
His hair was dark an' curly
His lovin' eyes was blue.

VERSE 2
They took him away
To the awful German war
An' when he came to say, goodbye
My heart did overflow

VERSE 3
He took a golden finger ring
Placed it on my hand
Said, remember me little darlin'
When I'm in no-mans-land

VERSE 4
It was on a Sunday evenin'
About the hour of three
When my darlin', start to leave me
Sail on the deep blue sea

VERSE 5
He promised to write me a letter
Promised to be true
When I read his letters
I pray the war is through.

VERSE 6
My Mother's dead, in Heaven
My Father's forsaken me
I have no one to love me
But the sailor on the deep blue sea

VERSE 7
The second letter I got from him
The war was just ahead
The next letter I got from him
My darlin' Bill, was dead

VERSE 8
I'll keep all of his letters
I'll keep his gold ring too
An' always live a single life
For the boy who was so true

VERSE 9
So, fare you well, dear friends
That's the last you'll see of me
For I'm going to end my troubles
By drownin' in the deep blue sea.

This strange composite has text from Victor's two leading recording artists of the late 1920s and early 1930s: Jimmie Rodgers and The Carter Family. Stanzas 1-3 and 7-8 are taken from The Soldier's Sweetheart recorded by Jimmie Rodgers in 1927 at the Bristol Sessions. The other stanzas are from the Carter Family.

The Deep Blue Sea is a folk song adapted from "Sailor Boy" which was recorded by the Carter Family in 1928. The Carters popular recording is the likely antecedent for subsequent recordings although it's possible some versions may be from an earlier traditional source.

R. Matteson Jr. 2017
Port St. Lucie Florida]

_______________________

Footnotes:

1. At least two composites of Careless Love/Sailor Boy have a similar stanza. See Ernest Stoneman's "Careless Love" and also a traditional version collected in 1933 by my grandfather and Mellinger Henry (Beech Mountain Folk Songs and Ballads, 1936).
2. "The Sailor Boy." ('Down by a christal river side") from Merry Songs No. 15, printed by J. Evans, London, c1810. The text is found at the end of stanza 3 and the beginning of 4:
      Come tell me ye jovial ship's crew,
      If my true love sails along with you.
      O no fair lady he is not here,
      For he is drown'd I greatly fear.
3. In one British broadside, Sailor Boy and his Faithful Mary, a broadside writer has this miracle ending stanza:
      She wrung her hands and tore her hair,
      Just like a woman in great despair,
      She flung her body into the deep
      In her William's arms to lay fast asleep.
4. The recording is Minstrel of the Appalachians, an album by Bascom Lamar Lunsford released in 1956 (catalog no. RLP 12-645; Vinyl LP).
5. Gilbert also recorded the Carter Family version for Max Hunter.

Richie


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Subject: RE: Origins: Died for Love Sources: PART IV
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 03 Jun 17 - 10:21 AM

It would be interesting to see the 4 ur oikotypes side by side for comparison.

You've stressed the Carters as the main source 3 times. Is this necessary?


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Subject: RE: Origins: Died for Love Sources: PART IV
From: Richie
Date: 03 Jun 17 - 04:03 PM

Yes Steve, I need to do the ur-ballad comparisons after the UK versions which I've started. As far as the Carters, no need to stress- sometimes you have to hit the nail on the head a few times before it goes in.

Re
dun
    dant

TY for the feedback, I'll be rewriting in the near future and will consider the "stress" next round.

Richie


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Subject: RE: Origins: Died for Love Sources: PART IV
From: Reinhard
Date: 04 Jun 17 - 12:33 PM

Geoff Lawes asked a week ago: "If anyone knows the origins of Silver Dagger, Turtle Dove, which I think is modern, then I would like to know."

Silver Dagger, Turtle Dove was written by Freddy McKay. Ken Hall sang it on his and Peta Webb's album "As Close As Can Be". He wrote in the album notes:

I first met Belfast's Freddy McKay at the Islington Folk Club in the late 1970s where he was one of a whole bunch of marvellous performers. Freddy was a great raconteur with a natural comic talent and love of the ridiculous. The affection that he attracted from all who met him was testimony to a 'great fellah". Freddy encouraged me to learn some of his songs and I was greatly attracted to his comic parody Silver Dagger, Turtle Dove.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Died for Love Sources: PART IV
From: GeoffLawes
Date: 05 Jun 17 - 05:51 AM

Thank you Reinhard, here is a link to an article that I found about Freddy McKay written for Musical Traditions by Keith Summers and Peta Webb back in 1997. I presume that it is the same man.

http://www.mustrad.org.uk/articles/mckay.htm


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Subject: RE: Origins: Died for Love Sources: PART IV
From: Richie
Date: 05 Jun 17 - 11:50 PM

TY Reinhard, by the way Geoff there's a version of Sailor Boy on Kennedy's site- can't listen with my browser.

* * * *

This is one of the rare archaic UK versions of the Oikotype C. It's my transcription of Ralph Vaughan Williams Manuscript Collection (at British Library) (RVW2/1/71).

It's only the second version with "murmuring side" (the first being the 1824 Samuel Bunker from a whaling ship log):

Down By Some River- sung by Mr. Flint of Lyne, Surrey in 1907; taken down by R.V. Williams.

Down by some river's murmurin' side,
Where silver streams do gently glide
I heard a fair maid making her moan
"How can I live now my Jimmy's gone?"

O father fetch me a little boat,
That on the ocean I might float
And every ship I do see
I will enquire for my sailor boy.

She had not sailed long in the deep
Before some queen's ship she chanced to meet
"Come jovial sailors, come tell me true
If my young Jimmy sails along with you?"

"Oh no, young lady he is not here
For he is drownded I greatly fear,
For yonders island that we have sailed by
It was there we lost your Jimmy boy."

She wrung her hands she tore her hair
Much like some woman in despair,
Her boat up against some rock did run,
"How can I live now Jimmy's gone."

"I will go down to some shady grove,
There I'll go and make my woe,
Telling the small birds, telling them of my grief,
That they might afford me some such relief."

* * * *

It's scary that I can now read R.V. Williams MS scratches. The opening line is sketchy and Palmer wrote it out too: Folk Songs Collected by Ralph Vaughan Williams by ‎Roy Palmer- 1983 so if anyone has Palmer's transcript they can post changes.

Richie


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Subject: RE: Origins: Died for Love Sources: PART IV
From: Reinhard
Date: 06 Jun 17 - 12:20 AM

Roy Palmer has two lines that differ from your transcription. His first line is

Down by some murmuring riverside

and the last but one line

Telling the small birds, telling my grief

But looking at the manuscript he seemed to be wrong and you transcribed it correctly.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Died for Love Sources: PART IV
From: Richie
Date: 06 Jun 17 - 09:46 AM

TY Reinhard,

The info on Kennedy version online is : Peter Kennedy Collection
Sheila Gallagher, Middle Dere, Donegal 1953. Tape 1
http://sounds.bl.uk/World-and-traditional-music/Peter-Kennedy-Collection/025M-C0604X0523XX-0001V0#_
8. The Sailor Boy (further talk, build me a boat) English [2'26"].- 20142: F. 1.

* * * *

This is Greig A, from Bob Chree (b. 1852) dated c. 1860s since in the obit it says he learned his "sangs" as a child. To see the obit and bio info: http://www.bluegrassmessengers.com/sailing-trade--robert-chree-aber-1907-greig-a.aspx

A. THE SAILING TRADE- sung by "Bob" Chree of Milltown, Glenbuchat, learned in the 1860s.

The sailing trade is a weary life,
It's bereavit me o' my heart's delight.
It's left me here in tears to mourn,
Just waiting for my Willie's return.

It's where he's gone I cannot tell,
Nor in whose arms my love doth dwell,
But who enjoys him at this same time
Enjoys the fairest of all mankind.

The grass grows green where my love's been,
The little birds sing in ilka tree,
The nightingale in her cage doth sing
To welcome Willie in the spring.

She's caus-ed them to make a boat
That on the ocean she might float,
And view the French ships as they passed by.
And still enquire for her sailor boy.

She had not sail-ed long on the deep,
When a French ship she chanced to meet,
"Oh captain, captain, pray tell me true,
Is my true love on board with you?

"Amber is the colour of his hair,
His cheeks like roses, his skin so fair.
His lips like lilies all steeped in wine,
Ten thousand times they been joined to mine.

"It's your true love an' he is na here,
He is drownid in the depths. I fear,
It was just last night, a$ the wind blew high,
It was then we lost a fine sailor boy."

The sailors they were all dressed in black,
The sailors they were right mournfully,
With their silken screen on their topmast high,
The wind did blow with a pleasant gale.

This fair maid she went to her home,
She has called for paper, and she has penned this song,
At ilka word she did shed a tear,
And at ilka line cried, "Willie dear!"

As she was walking on the quay,
A row of sailors she chanced to see,
With their jackets blue and their troosers white,
Just mind her on her heart's delight.

She wrang her hands, she tore her hair,
Just like a lover in despair,
Oot owre a rock herself she's thrown,
"How could I live, and my darling gone?"

Thanks to Steve Gardham for providing a copy of Greig/Duncan. This is a traditional version of Oikotype B, Sailing Trade printed in Edinburgh around 1800.

Richie


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Subject: RE: Origins: Died for Love Sources: PART IV
From: Richie
Date: 07 Jun 17 - 05:34 PM

Hi,

I've started on UK and am up to about 1916:

    Sailor Boy- (Limerick) c.1770 Goggin broadside
    Sailing Trade (Edinburgh) 1800 J. Morren, chapbook
    The Sailor Boy- (London) 1810 Merry Songs, J Evans
    Sailor Boy- Tom Sweetman (Wex) c.1817 Kennedy
    Sailor Boy & his Faithful Mary- (Lon) c.1820 Pitts
    Sailor Boy- K. L. (London) 1862 Monthly Packet
    Young Lady's Lamentation- (Dub) 1867 P. Brereton
    Early, Early All in the Spring- Hollings(Lin) 1870
    My Love William- Sam Noble (Dundee) c.1875
    Sailing Trade- Mary Guthrie (Aber) 1876 Christie
    Sailor Boy- (Lon) 1891 Ashton; Real Sailor Songs
    Sweet William- Mrs. Harley (Worc) 1893 Broadwood
    Sailor's Life- Willie Mathieson (Aber) 1894 REC
    Sweet William- J. Woodrich (Dev) 1894 B. Gould
    A Sailor's Life- Henry Hills (Sus) 1899 Merrick
    Sweet William- T. Sprachlan (Som) 1903 Sharp MS
    A Sailor's Life- Jake Toms (Dorset) 1905 Hammond
    A Sailor's Life - R. Barratt (Dorset) 1905 Hammond
    A Sailor's Life- Mrs. Small (Sus) 1905 Broadwood
    Sailor Boy- Ann Hiles (Linc) 1905 Grainger
    Sweet William- Robert Slade (Dors) 1906 Hammond
    Fetch Me My Boat- Mrs. King (Hamp) 1906 Gardiner
    Sweet William- Job Read (Hamp) 1906 Gardiner
    Sailor Boy- Mr. Gordge (Som) 1906 Sharp MS
    Sailor Boy- J. W. Spence (Fyvie) c.1906 Greig D
    Sailin's a weary life- Mrs Greig(Aber)1906 Greig E
    Sweet William- William Bone (Hamp) 1907 Gardiner
    Sweet William- G. Baldwin (Hamp) 1907 Gardiner
    Sweet William- Mrs. Mundy (Hamp) 1907 Gardiner
    Down By Some River- Mr. Flint (Surrey) 1907 RVW
    As I Walked Forth- M. Mills (Hamp) 1907 Gardiner
    I'll Sit Me Down- P. Malone (Hamp) 1907 Gardiner
    Father Made Me a Boat- Jones (Hamp) 1907 Gardiner
    Sailing Trade- Robert Chree (Aber) 1907 Greig A
    Sailor Boy- Arthur Barron (Aber) c.1907 Greig F
    A Sailor's Life- J. Alexander (Aber) c.1907 Greig
    Early All in the Spring- Lane (Glou) 1908 Grainger
    Write a Little Song- George Say (Som) 1908 Sharp
    A Sailor's Life- James Lovell (Som) 1908 Sharp MS
    Sailor Boy- Annie Ritchie (Aber) 1908 Greig C
    Sailing Trade- Annie Shirer (Aber) 1908 Greig I
    Sailing Trade- Anon (Aber) c.1908 Greig J
    BrokenHearted Lover- Anderson (Ab) 1908 Greig K
    Young Sailor Boy- Mrs. Duncan (Aber) 1908 Greig L
    Jacket Blue- (Antrim) pre1909 Patrick Joyce
    Father, Build me a Boat- Mrs. Collinson (Wes) 1909
    Sailing Trade- Kate Mitchel (Aber) c.1909 Grieg B
    Young Lady's Lamentation- (Dub) 1909 broadside
    Early All in the Spring- Yeldman(Essex) 1911 Carey
    A Sea Song- Andrew Dobson (Surrey) 1912 Carey
    Sailor Boy- John Puffet (Glou) 1916 A. Williams
    My Boy Willie- Anon (Dublin) 1939 O Lochlainn

Not sure of many UK versions from 1916 to 1950, I assume Sharp's Sweet William (100 English Folk Songs) is a compilation. Any suggests of versions and/or texts would be helpful,

Richie


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Subject: RE: Origins: Died for Love Sources: PART IV
From: Richie
Date: 09 Jun 17 - 02:47 PM

Hi,

This is an excellent version of A, Irish from Australia:

It's The Lost Sailor by Simon McDonald from Norm O'Connor folklore collection online. McDonald lived almost all his life in Creswick Victoria, a small town close to Ballarat, and worked as a woodcutter and farm labourer. Many, such as 'The Lost Sailor,' were about the sea. This is an archaic version of A. He's an excellent singer. Listen: http://nla.gov.au/nla.obj-216799528/listen

I'm not sure if the other Aussie versions stem from this. Does anyone know of other independent versions?

The Lost Sailor - collected from Simon McDonald, Creswick, Victoria in 1959.

[fiddle]

It was early, early all in the spring,
When my lad Jemmy went to serve the King,
With the main mast full and the topmast high,
That parted me and my sailor boy.

Oh get for me that little boat,
Over these wide oceans I may just float
To watch the French fleet as they sailed by,
While I inquire of my sailor boy.

Oh she was not far sailing on the deep
When a lofty French fleet she chanced to meet,
She did tell to me, "Oh you jovial crew
Does my love Jemmy sail on board with you?"

Indeed fair maiden he is not here,
For he is drowned, I likely fear,
It was on yonder island as we passed by,
It was there we lost of your sailor boy.

Oh she wrung her hands and she tore her hair,
Like a maid distracted all in deep despair,
Her little boat o'er the rocks she run
How can I live now my Jemmy's gone.

And all ye sailors come dress in black
Come all ye fair maids come dress in white
With the main mast full and the topmast high,
While I shall mourn for my sailor boy.

Richie


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Subject: RE: Origins: Died for Love Sources: PART IV
From: Richie
Date: 12 Jun 17 - 10:01 PM

Hi,

Here are my headnotes now for Sailor Boy: http://www.bluegrassmessengers.com/7a-the-sailor-boy-or-sweet-william.aspx I've put over 100 UK versions and over 120 versions from North America on my site so I'll be wrapping up this study soon. Since the main headnotes are long, I'd like to share two excerpts:

The broadsides represent four different oikotypes of Sailor Boy/Sweet William which correspond to my A to D print versions.

Oikotype A: Irish. Begins with "Early, early in the spring" and is represented by the Irish broadsides "Sailor Boy" by Goggins c.1770, also "A New Song call'd the Young Lady's Lamentation for the Loss of her True Love," printed by P. Brereton in Dublin. c.1867 and "The constant lover and her sailor boy" from Ballad Sheet Scrapbook I: part IV, from the Collection of Patrick Weston Joyce (1827- 1914) an Irish music collector; dated c. 1880 by chronology presented.. The opening two lines (and sometimes the first stanza) are also found in Early, Early in the Spring (Laws M1 Roud #152) whose antecedent is the late 17th century Seaman's Complaint for his Unkind Mistress, of Wapping. See those opening lines also in Croppy Boy, which is an adaptation. What need to be made clear is: The Seaman's Complaint is not part of Sailor Boy and only has the opening lines in common-- they are different ballads. Some recent song notes date The Sailor Boy back to "the bombardment of Cartagena, Colombia, during Admiral Vernon's 1740 expedition." This apparently is a reference to a text from Logan's Pedlar's Pack of 1869, The Disappointed Sailor, in which the ship's destination is Cartagena (1741)-- this text is related to Seaman's Complaint, a different ballad. The Sailor boy dates back to the early 1700s through John Gay's recreation. The "Early, Early" title, although an identifier of Irish versions, appears to have been originally English from an earlier unknown missing broadside.

Oikotype B: Scottish. Begins with "The sailing trade is a weary trade," and is represented by "Sailing Trade" printed by J. Morren, c.1800 in an Edinburgh chapbook. The opening also appears with changes such as, "A sailor's life is a weary life" which is similar to the opening of Oikotype D. Oikotype B has 10 stanzas and introduces the "color of amber" stanza which is common in many Sailor Boy versions from North America and is similar in text to the opening of the Appalachian folksong "Black is the Colour."

Oikotype C: English also Irish. Begins "Down by a crystal river side" and is represented by Ca, "The Maid's Lament for her Sailor Boy," a London broadside by J. Catnatch printer dated between 1813 and 1838 and Cb, "Sailor Boy" by London printer Pitts dated between 1819 and 1844. The opening stanza is reminiscent of the 2nd stanza of the 1686 broadside, "Constant Lady and the False-Hearted Squire." This English oikotype also has the older text used by John Gay in 1720 (Black Eyed Susan) and can therefore be considered older than A or B. This oikotype has the French ships found in the Irish A which A may have borrowed from C. It must be presumed that an early broadside of C is missing (c.1680s- 1720s) and text either from the broadside or its tradition was used by Gay for his "Black Eyed Susan." The fact that versions of C are found in America and that the versions were brought probably during the Colonial Period is further evidence of the antiquity of C which had been replaced by D in England by 1900.

Oikotype D: English. It begins similarly to B, "A sailor's life is a merry life" and is represented by the later broadside, "Sailor Boy and his Faithful Mary." Has the new stanza beginning, "Four-and-twenty sailors, in a row." The ships are the "Queen's ship(s)," the sailor is "sweet William" and he was last seen and presumed dead on the "green island." This represents a more recent (late 1800s- early 1900s) English tradition and is easily identified by its first line.

All four types can be compared for details, type of ship, jacket blue etc. An ur-ballad can be constructed for each oikotype. Although some traditional versions are mixed (more than one oikotype) most conform closely to the four basic broadside oikotypes. One other rare oikotype, found in tradition in North America, uses the "amber is the colour" stanza as an opening and is Oikotype E, which begins "Dark/Black is the Color." These oikotypes will be covered in more detail later.

* * * *

The Relationship with Died for Love
The text of G, "A Sailor's Trade is a Roving Life," succinctly shows the main relationship with Died for Love. The letter writing stanza, which is sometimes song writing stanza in Sailor Boy, is followed by the Died for Love ending stanza. After studying the broadside texts and comparing them to the traditional texts, one fact becomes clear: except for this single stanza about writing a song or letter (a ballad commonplace-- in this case it acts as a trigger stanza) the print versions have no stanzas in common with Died for Love and their extended family. Since many traditional versions of Sailor Boy share one or more stanzas with Died for Love, how can this be?

There are two theories-- the first (Theory A) requires a giant leap of faith while the second (Theory B) is simple. Perhaps both are contributors to the inclusion of the Died for Love stanzas in traditional versions of Sailor Boy.

Theory A suggests that both Died for Love, B (The Cruel Father), a ballad about an apprentice who is pressed into service the King and becomes a sailor boy, and Sailor Boy have a common broadside ancestry. Sailor Boy would be an "answer to" type of broadside that would be parallel or a variation of the same story. In The Cruel Father, his daughter's lover is pressed to sea aboard a man-of-war where he is killed by a cannonball. In the Sailor Boy her sailor boy is either pressed to sea or it's his trade-- she has her father build a boat and she searches for him hailing down (in some versions) a man-of-war vessel. It would be natural for the Sailor Boy as a companion ballad to appropriate the suicide and ending Died for Love stanzas.

Theory B is a simple logical explanation: the Died for Love ballads are similar in style, melody and theme to Sailor Boy. The basic theme is almost the same in both--a maid falls in love, her love leaves her. She searches for him, finds he's dead and kills herself. Traditional singers that knew the two ballads would blend them because of the common letter/song writing stanza. Notice in G (text above) "A Sailor's Trade is a Roving Life" the Died for Love ending follows the letter writing stanza held in common. This combination is most consistent in Butcher Boy (Died for Love, E). Printers kept printing the same stock broadsides-- not taking tradition into account. Although it seems odd that a version with the added Died for Love stanzas was never printed-- why change the old for the new (Maiden's Prayer).

The association of the two ballads by traditional singers from the common stanza became apparent when random Died for Love stanzas where added to Sailor Boy. One good example is one of the first published traditional versions, my W, which was sent by Margaret Harley to Lucy Broadwood. It was later published in Broadwood's 1893 English Country Songs:

W. "Sweet William." Words and tune, with notes from Margaret Harley, Bewdley.

1. O father, father, come build me a boat,
That on this wild ocean I may float,
And every ship that I chance to meet
I will enquire for my William sweet.

2 I had not sailed more than half an hour
Before I met with a man on board (man of war?)
"Kind captain, captain, come tell me true,
Is my sweet William on board with you?"

3 "Oh no, fine lady, he is not here,
That he is drowned most breaks my fear,
For the other night when the wind blew high
That's when you lost your sweet sailor boy."

4 I'll set me down, and I'll write a song,
I'll write it neat, and I'll write it long,
And at every word I will drop a tear,
And in every line I'll set my Willie dear.

5 I wish, I wish, but it's all in vain,
I wish I was a sweet maid again,
But a maid, a maid I never shall be
Till apples grow on an orange-tree.
For a maid, a maid I shall never be,
Till apples grow on an orange-tree.

In the next year Baring-Gould collected a version and sent it to Broadwood in a letter which pointed out that Broadwood's last stanza was from a different song!

* * * *

Richie


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Subject: RE: Origins: Died for Love Sources: PART IV
From: Richie
Date: 13 Jun 17 - 12:04 PM

Hi,

Here are the two ur-ballads (composites) of Sailor Boy for the Irish Oikotype A. One is print and one is tradition. This is a reduced excerpt from my site:

Oikotype A: Irish. Begins with "Early, early in the spring" or "Early, Early All in the Spring," and is represented by the following Irish broadsides:
1)"Sailor Boy" by Goggins c.1770,
2) "A New Song call'd the Young Lady's Lamentation for the Loss of her True Love," printed by P. Brereton in Dublin. c.1867
3) "The Constant lover and her sailor boy" from Ballad Sheet Scrapbook I: part IV, from the Collection of Patrick Weston Joyce (1827- 1914) an Irish music collector; dated c. 1880 by chronology presented.
4) "The Young Lady's Lamentation for the Loss of her True Love" ("The night is long and I can find no rest") broadside by E.C. Yeats Cuala Press County Dublin, 1909.

The opening two lines (and sometimes the first stanza) are also found in the different ballad, "Early, Early in the Spring" (Laws M1 Roud #152) whose antecedent is the late 17th century Seaman's Complaint for his Unkind Mistress, of Wapping. See those opening lines also in Croppy Boy, which is an adaptation. What need to be made clear is: The Seaman's Complaint is not part of Sailor Boy and only has the opening lines in common-- they are different ballads.

The Seaman's Complaint for his Unkind Mistress, of Wapping.
To The Tune Of I love you dearly, I love you well, etc.   
Licens'd and Enter'd according to Order, etc.

When I went early in the Spring
on board a Ship to serve the King,
I left my dearest Love behind,
who said her heart for e're was mine.

Most versions use the first lines but several use the complete measure and shift to Sailor Boy text in stanza 2. Here's a composite of the four broadsides:

1. It was early, early all in the spring,
   When my love William went to serve the King (Queen),
   The raging seas and wind blew nigh (high),
   Which parted me and my sailor boy.

   [All that grieved him and troubled his mind,
    Was the leaving of his dear girl behind.]

2. The night is long and I can find no rest,
    The thoughts of my Willie runs in my breast,
    I'll search those green wood and valleys wide,
    Still hoping my true love to find.

3. Come make then for me a little boat
    For its on the ocean I mean to float,
    To view the French fleet as they pass by,
    And I'll still inquire for my sailor boy.

4. She had not sailed more then a day or too,
    When a French vessel came in my view.
    Oh Captain Captain tell me true
    Does my true love William sail on board with you?

5. "What sort of clothes did your Willie wear,
    Or what colour was your true lover's hair?"
    "A short blue jacket all bound with green,
    And the colour of amber was my true love's hair."

6. Indeed fair lady, he is not here,
    But he is drowned I gently fear,
    On yon green Island as we passed by,
    We lost five more and your sailor boy.

7. She wrong her hands tore her hair,
    Just like a lady in deep despair,
    Oh happy, happy is the girl she cried,
    That has her true love drowned by her side.

    [Her boat she flung against the rocks
    Crying, "What shall I do since my true love's lost?"]

    [Her little boat against a rock did run,
    Saying, "What shall I do when my Willie's gone?"]

8. I'll tell my dream to the hills high;
    And all the small birds as they fly,
    "Oh, happy, happy is the girl," she cried,
    "That has her true-love by her side."

9. She called for a pen and ink and paper too,
    That she might write her last adieu,
    At every letter she shed a tear,
    At every line she cried Willy dear.

10. Come all you seamen that sails along
    And all you boatmen that follow on.
    From the cabin boy to the main mast high,
    You must mourn in black for my sailor boy.

Stanza 2 is not standard but it corroborated in some traditional versions.

* * * *

The "early early" opening is identified with the fundamental Irish version. Two versions from America dated before 1850 have the "Early, Early" stanza. Both the Aussie version and the Tristan de Cuhna version found in the 1900s have the "Early, early" opening. The Sailor is usually "Willie" except for two exported versions which have "Jimmy" as found in Oikotype C. The letter writing stanza found in the "Early, Early" broadsides is rare in early Irish tradition. The suicide found in the Hollings Lincolnshire version is the same found in Butcher Boy and seems to be unique (or borrowed from Butcher Boy) so it will not be part of an ur-ballad representing that Oikotype A. In Kennedy's Wexford version there's also the rare "because she couldn't be a sailor's wife" suicide and a stanza found in Sharp's 100 English Folk Songs: "The grass it groweth on ev'ry lea/ The leaf it falleth from ev'ry tree/How happy that small bird doth cry/That hath her true love close to her side." This mirrors stanza 8 of the broadsides and both are ornamental additions from other sources although they will be included here. The "Sailors all in row" stanza found in only two exported versions and also found in Scottish print/tradition is not included. There's more variation among the "What kind of clothes" stanza(s) than the other standard stanzas. The common addition from Died for Love is the ending stanza, "Go dig my grave."

Some Identifiers:

1) Early Early (all) in the Spring
2) Night was long and I can find no rest
3) Willie (also William)
4) French fleet
5) yon green island

Early, Early All in the Spring (Ur-Ballad)

1. It was early, early all in the spring,
   When my love Willie went to serve the King,
   The raging seas and wind blew high,
   Which parted me and my sailor boy.

2. The night is long and I can find no rest,
    The thoughts of my Willie runs in my breast,
    I'll search those green wood and valleys wide,
    Still hoping my true love to find.

3. Come make then for me a little boat
    For its on the ocean I mean to float,
    To view the French fleet as they pass by,
    And I will inquire for my sailor boy.

4. She had not sailed more then a day or too,
    When a French vessel came into view.
    "Oh Captain Captain tell me true
    Does my true love Willie sail on board with you?"

5. "What sort of clothes did your Willie wear,
    Or what colour was your true lover's hair?"
    "A short blue jacket all bound with green,
    And the colour of amber was my true love's hair."

6. Indeed, fair lady, he is not here,
    But he is drowned I greatly fear,
    On yon green Island as we passed by,
    We lost five more and your sailor boy.

7. She wrung her hands tore her hair,
    Just like a lady in deep despair,
    Her little boat against a rock did run,
    Saying, "What shall I do when my Willie's gone?"

8. I'll tell my dream to the hills high;
    And all the small birds as they fly,
    "Oh, happy, happy is the girl," she cried,
    "That has her true-love by her side."

9. She called for a pen and paper to write a song,
    She wrote it wide and she wrote it long,
    And at every letter she shed a tear,
    At every line she cried, "Willie dear."

10. Come all you seamen that sails along
    And all you boatmen that follow on.
    From the cabin boy to the main mast high,
    You must mourn in black for my sailor boy.

11. Oh drape my coffin with the deepest black,
    And the headstone right above my head and neck
    And on my breast place a turtle dove
    To tell the world that I died for love.

Stanza 3 also begins with the standard "Oh father, father, come build me a boat" not found in older Irish versions. It should be noted that all Irish versions do not begin with "Early, Early" (see: Colm O Lochlainn's 1939 version) but "Early, Early" is the main identifier for Oikotype A and the Irish versions.

* * * *

Richie


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Subject: RE: Origins: Died for Love Sources: PART IV
From: Richie
Date: 13 Jun 17 - 05:34 PM

Hi,

Here's the excerpt with Oikotype B, Scottish:

By adding traditional versions to the 10 stanza print version obviously it will add to out ur-ballad since "Sailing Trade" by Robert Chree of Aberdeenshire is a 11 full stanza. Two changes from print are obvious: 1) The traditional "What king of clothes does you Billie wear?" stanza replaces the "colour of amber" stanza and 2) the "Sailors mourn in black" stanza is missing and needs to be added. Christie's 1876 version has at least one stanza from his mother was probably supplemented by print stanzas. A traditional record is wanting of the two "on the lea" stanzas found in Christie's text. The traditional version by Maggie Stewart uses the "What a name" stanza (Two Hearts) and those 6 lines can't be included in the ur-ballad. The Died for love ending is rare in Scottish versions. Usually she throws herself on a rock and is presumed to drown. In Lucy Stewart's version she uses a rope:

She thrust her head up into a rope,
"Oh but where can I live since my Billie's gone?"

The main versions used in the UR ballad were the print version and Robert Chree's version.

Some Identifiers:

1) Sailing Trade is a weary trade (A sailor's life is a weary life)
2) Billie (sometimes Willie or William)
3) The grass does grow on every lea
4) The colour of amber
5) Father, Father build me a boat
6) man-of-war (tradition) also French ships
7) Thousands, thousands in a room (print)

The Sailing Trade (Ur-ballad Oikotype B)

1. The sailing trade is a weary life;
It's bereaved me of my heart's delight,
And left me here in tears to mourn,
Still waiting for my Billie's return.

2. It's where he's gone I cannot tell,
Nor in whose arms my love doth dwell,
But who enjoys him at this same time
Enjoys the fairest of all mankind.

3. The grass grows green where my love's been,
The little birds sing in ilka tree,
The nightingale in her cage doth sing
To welcome Willie in the spring.

4. Thousands, thousands all in a room,
My love he carries the brightest bloom;
He surely is some chosen one,
I will have him, or I'll have none.

5. The grass does grow on every lea,
The leaf doth fall from every tree;
How happy that small bird doth cry,
That has her true love by her lie.

6. Father, father, build me a boat,
That on the ocean I may float;
And at every ship that doth pass by,
I may enquire for my sailor boy.

7. She had not sail-ed long on the deep,
Till a man-of-war ship she chanced to meet,
"Oh captain, captain, pray tell me true,
Is my love Billie on board with you?

8. The colour of amber is my true love's hair
His red rosy cheeks doth my heart ensnare
His ruby lips are soft, and with charms,
I've lain many a night in his lovely arms.

9. I doubt, I doubt, and I rather fear,
That your dear Billie he's not here,
It was just last night, as the wind blew high,
It was then we lost a fine sailor boy."

10. The sailors they were all dressed in black,
The sailors they were right mournfully,
With their silken screen on their topmast high,
The wind did blow with a pleasant gale.

11. This fair maid she went to her home,
She has called for paper, and she has penned this song,
At ilka word she did shed a tear,
And at ilka line cried, "Billie dear!"

12. As she was walking on the quay,
A row of sailors she chanced to see,
With their jackets blue and their troosers white,
Just mind her on her heart's delight.

13. She wrang her hands, she tore her hair,
Just like a lover in despair,
Oot owre a rock herself she's thrown,
"How could I live, and my Billie gone?"

14. "Go dig me a grave so wide and so deep,
And cover me over with lilies so sweet
And in the middle a turtle dove
To let the world know I died for love.

The "Colour of Amber stanza" has been supplanted in tradition by the dialogue between the maid and the captain resulting in a number of variants which appear similarly:

What kind of clothes does your Billie wear?
What is the colour of your Billie's hair?
His jacket's blue and his troosers white,
And the colour o' his hair is my heart's delight.

* * * *

Richie


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Subject: RE: Origins: Died for Love Sources: PART IV
From: Richie
Date: 14 Jun 17 - 11:19 AM

Hi,

This is Sailor Boy, Oikotype C, which is the oldest text. The original broadside, as reflected in two archaic US versions and the lines from John Gay in 1720, is missing. The English broadsides on c.1810 represent a secondary reduction and Oikotype C is based largely on this reduction. There are 10 extant versions, one from England and the rest from North America. Here are two short excerpts from my website which gives all the texts in full:

* * * *

Oikotype C: Originally English then English and Irish. The earliest known print begins "Down by a crystal river side" and is represented by Ca, "The Sailor Boy." ("Down by a christal river side") from Merry Songs No. 15, printed by J. Evans, London, c1810, Cb, "The Maid's Lament for her Sailor Boy," a London broadside by J. Catnatch printer dated between 1813 and 1838 and Cc, "Sailor Boy" by London printer Pitts dated between 1819 and 1844. There is no significant difference in text between the three extant print versions. These prints are regarded as a secondary reduction of an earlier, largely unknown[], archaic English print.

The opening stanza with its pastoral setting is reminiscent of the 2nd stanza of the 1686 broadside, "Constant Lady and the False-Hearted Squire"-- widely borrowed by singers of the Died for Love songs. The older English print is only known by three lines of text from a missing broadside that was used by John Gay in 1720 for his recomposed ballad on the Sailor Boy theme, "Black Eyed Susan." The archaic identifiers "Sweet William" and "jovial sailors, tell me true" of "archaic" Oikotype C can therefore be considered older than A or B and the unknown print is dated c.1680-c.1718. The C Oikotype has the French ships identifier found in the Irish A which is presumed to have been borrowed from "archaic" C. The fact that versions of C were collected in America and that only one extant version was collected in the UK means that while Oikotype C virtually disappeared in the UK, it has already been brought to America probably during the Colonial Period. This is further evidence of the antiquity of C which had been replaced by D in England by the mid-to-late 1800s.

As far as the known print versions, there are the three lines from John Gay and three nearly identical broadsides (Ca will suffice):

Black-Eyed Susan: A Ballad (John Gay, 1720- print)

4    Oh! where shall I my true love find!
5 Tell me, ye jovial sailors, tell me true,
6    If my sweet William sails among the crew?

Here's Ca, "The Sailor Boy," from the collection, "Merry Songs," No. 15, printed by J. Evans, London, dated c.1810. This represents a secondary reduction of C, with "crystal" replacing "murmuring" and Jemmy" replacing "William":

15. The Sailor Boy (print)

1. Down by a christal river side,
Where silver streams did sweetly glide,
I heard a fair maiden making her moan,
How can I live now my Jemmy's gone.

2. Go fetch me some little boat
That on the ocean I may float,
Thro' the French ships as they pass by
Enquiring for my sailor boy.

3. She had not sailed long on the deep
Before five sail of the French ships she did meet,
Come tell me ye jovial ship's crew,
If my true love sails along with you.

4. O no fair lady he is not here,
For he is drown'd I greatly fear,
For on yonder green island as I past by
There we did lose your poor sailor boy.

5. She wrung her hands and tore her hair
Just like a woman in despair,
Her boat against the rocks she run,
O I ne'er can live now my Jemmy's gone.

6. So come ye maids who dress in black,
That for a sailor boy you do lack,
With a black topmast and sails so wide,
Which parted me and my sailor boy.

7. Down by the silent shady grove,
There will I mourn for my true love,
And tell the small birds all my grief,
For they alone afford some relief.

Gay's text corresponds to the last two lines of Stanza 3 of the "Sailor Boy" broadside by Evans. The traditional record of Oikotype C is small and includes one excellent version from England collected by R.V. Williams in 1907.

* * * *

Nine versions represent the traditional record of the opening stanza ("murmuring river side") of Oikotype C. Many of the later US versions have only the 1st stanza and no other archaic identifiers. Other identifiers are "jovial crew," "jovial ship's crew" or "jovial sailors" and the name, "Jimmy" which are found rarely found together. One such archaic version is "Sailor Boy" as sung by Edward Hovington of Quebec who learned it from an Irishman in Canada in 1847. Even though Hovington's version is missing the main stanza ("Down by the murmuring river side") it still qualifies as a version of Oikotype C. The rational is this: "Archaic" Oikotype C, the oldest version originally had two opening stanzas (murmuring river side/Early early) and was later rewritten. One rewrite was Oikotype A printed in Ireland in the 1770s (see Goggin) which removed the "murmuring river side" stanza and "Early early" became the new opening stanza. Evidence of this apparent in two versions from the Untied States, the oldest being the 1824 "Mermuring[sic] Side" which begins:

1. Down by one murmuring river side
Where purling streams do gently glide
I herd a fair maid making her moan
How can I live and my true love gone?

2. It was early, early all in the spring
He went on board for to serve his king
The raging seas and the winds blew high,
Which parted me and my sailor boy.

and also Cox B from West Virginia:

1 Way down on Moment's river side,
The wind blew fair a gentle glide;
A very pretty maid sat there a-moan,
"O what shall I do? My true love's gone.

2 "If ten thousand were enrolled,
My love would make the brightest show,
The brightest show of every one;
I'll have my true love or else have none.

3 "It was early in the spring,
He went on sea to serve his king;
The day was clear, the wind blew fair,
Which parted me and my dearest dear.

The Goggin Irish print of c.1770 removed "murmuring river side" and "Early early" became the opening. This change was kept in subsequent Irish prints and it also became part of Irish tradition. The English print versions published in 1810 (see Ca above) also reflected a change: "murmuring" was changed to "crystal" and the 'Early, early" opening, now printed in Ireland, was removed. "Sweet William," as reflected in John Gay's adaptation, was changed in this secondary reduction to "Jemmy" (Jimmy). Assuming this change occurred in the late 1700s and early 1800s as the two archaic US versions predict, this would mean that the original unknown Oikotype C was printed in the late 1600s to early 1700s with "murmuring river side" and "early early" as the second or third stanza. John Gay's recreation, which represents the unknown print version, used the common ballad name, "Sweet William," as well as "jovial sailors," another commonplace in sailor songs. Since the original print of the C Oikotype is unknown, reproducing it here would be more speculation. It is best represented by the 1824 traditional version Murmuring Side. The ur-ballad that follows will represent the second reduction found in the London broadsides of c.1810 with the "early, early" stanza removed. Some elements of "archaic" C will appear in the identifiers and ur-ballad.

Some Identifiers of Oikotype C
1) "murmuring river side," "moment's river side" then "crystal river side"
2) Originally "William" (as John Gay's "Sweet William") then "Jemmy" or "Jimmy"
3) "greatest show"
4) "jovial ship's crew" "jovial sailors" "jovial crew"
5) "fetch me some boat"
6) Down to some/a silent "shady grove"

Murmuring River Side-- Oikiotype C (secondary reduction)

1. Down by yon murmurin' river side
Where silver streams do gently glide
I heard a fair maid making her moan
"How can I live now my Jimmy's gone?"

2. "His rosy cheeks, his coal-black hair,
Has drawn my heart all in a snare;
His ruby lips so soft and fine,
Ten thousand times I've thrust in mine."

3. "And if ten thousand were in a row,
My love would make the brightest show,
The brightest show of every one;
I'll have my love or I'll have none."

4. Go fetch me some little boat
That on the ocean I may float,
Thro' the French ships as they pass by
Inquiring for my sailor boy.

5. She had not sailed long in the deep
Before some French ship she chanced to meet
Come jovial sailors come tell me true
If my young Jimmy sails along with you?

6. "No, no, fair maiden, he is not here,
For he is drownded poor soul I fear,
On yon green islands as we passed by
It was there we lost our young sailor boy."

7. She wrung her hands, she tore her hair
Much like some woman in despair,
Her boat up against some rock did run,
"How can I live now Jimmy's gone?"

8. The wind did blow and the waves did roll,
Which washed his body to the shore;
She viewed him well in every part,
With melting tears and bleeding heart.

9. With pen and ink she wrote a song,
She wrote it large, she wrote it long;
On every line she dropped a tear,
And every verse cried, "O my dear!"

10. So come ye maids who dress in black,
That for a sailor boy you do lack,
With a black topmast and sails so wide,
Which parted me and my sailor boy.

11. Down by the silent shady grove,
There will I mourn for my true love,
And tell the small birds all my grief,
For they alone afford some relief.

12. Six weeks from then this maid was dead,
And on her breast this letter laid:
"Go dig my grave both wide and deep,
And strew it well with roses sweet.

13 "Plant by my side a willow tree,
To many years wave over me,
And on my breast a turtle dove,
To tell the world I died for love."

The broadsides and Flint's version end with stanza 11. The 1824 tradition version from the ship's log has:

O this fair maid on a sick bed fell
And for a doctor loudly did call,
My pain is great and I cannot live
And she descended unto her grave.

Most of the US versions have the "Died for Love" stanza added on as in 12 and 13. Stanza 8 (viewing his dead body) is rare and found only in one other version. Stanza 10 is from the broadsides and is a poorly constructed "sailor's mourning" stanza. Jemmy (Jimmy) is retained throughout as in the broadsides and the RV Williams English version. There are two archaic US versions with both opening stanzas which reflect "archaic" C, the missing broadside.
* * * *

Richie


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Subject: RE: Origins: Died for Love Sources: PART IV
From: Richie
Date: 15 Jun 17 - 01:35 PM

Hi,

This completes the study of fundamental oikotypes of Sailor Boy. Oikotype E is found in the US south and Mid-West and is not derived from any known printed versions. Here are D and E:

Oikotype D: English. It begins similarly to B, with the variation on the first line, "A sailor's life is a merry life," and is represented by the later broadside, "Sailor Boy and his Faithful Mary." D also has the stanza beginning, "Four-and-twenty sailors, in a row" which is found in English tradition. The ships that Mary hails are the "Queen's ship(s)," the sailor is "sweet William" and he was last seen and presumed dead on the "green island." The easiest identifier is found in the last lines where Mary flings her body into the deep-- "in her Williams arms to lay fast asleep." This represents a more recent (mid1800s- early 1900s) English tradition and is easily identified by its first and last lines.

The print text of D dates back to as early as 1819 to 1844 when the broadside "Sailor Boy and his Faithful Mary" was issued by Pitts, a printer at Wholesale Toy and marble war[e]house. 6 Great st Andrew street 7 dils [sic] London. Additional broadsides were printed included one by J. Harkness of Preston between 1840-1860. The first known extant traditional version was published by F.L. in 1862 under the title, "Sailor Boy," see the article in The Monthly Packet of evening readings for younger members of the English Church, January--June 1862, London, by John and Charles Mozley.

Sailor Boy and his Faithful Mary- Oikotype D (print)

A sailor's life is a merry life:
They rob young women of their heart's delight,
Leaving them behind to sigh and mourn:
And never know when they will return.

Four-and-twenty sailors, in a row;
And my sweet William cuts the brightest show.
He is proper, tall, genteel with all,
If I don't have him I'll have none at all.

Father, bring me a little boat
That I may on the ocean float,
And every Queen's ship that I pass by
I may enquire for my sailor boy."

She had not sailed on the deep
When a queen's ship she chanc'd to meet.
You sailors all, pray tell me true,
Does my sweet William sail among your crew?

O no, fair lady, he is not here,
For he is drowned, I greatly fear.
On yon green island as we pass by
There we lost sight of our sailor boy.

Then she sat down for to write a song,
She wrote it freely and she wrote it long
At every verse she dropt a tear
Saying at the bottom, I have lost my dear.

She wrung her hands and tore her hair,
Jut like a woman in great despair,
Her little boat against a rock did run:
Saying, how can I live now my William's gone.

She wrung her hands and tore her hair,
Jut like a woman in great despair,
She flung her body into the deep
In her William's arms to lay fast asleep.

The last two stanzas have the same first line while Mary, identified by the title, is not not named in the body of the text. As pointed out by F.L. who published a traditional version in 1862, the last stanza offers a miracle reunion of the lovers: "Surely the last verse but one in the history of this nautical Evangeline, while the most absurd from its utter impossibility, is almost pathetic in its conceit." Here's the text in full, which is missing the opening stanza:

There's five-and-twenty all in a row,
And William he is the fairest show;
He is both handsome, genteel, and tall:
I'll have my William, else none at all.

"O Father! Father! build me a boat,
That on the ocean I may float;
And every king-ship that I pass by,
I will inquire for my sailor-boy."

I had not sailed far upon the deep,
Before a king-ship I chanced to meet:
"O jolly sailor, come tell me true,
If my sweet William's along with you?"

"Oh no, fair lady, he is not here,
For he is drowned, I greatly fear.
The other night, when the wind blew high,
It was then you lost your young sailor-boy."

She sat her down, and she wrote a song;
She wrote it wide, and she wrote it long;
At every line she shed a tear,
And at every verse she cried, "William dear!''

She wrung her hands, and she tore her hair,
Just like some lady in deep despair;
She plunged her body into the deep?
In the sailor's arms she lies fast asleep.

One of the most famous versions of D was collected by W. Percy Merrick from Henry Hills of Lodsworth, Sussex, in 1899, and was first published in the Folk Song Journal, vol.I, [issue 3], p. 266. It begins with the standard opening:

A sailor's life is a merry life.
They rob young girls of their heart's delight,
Leaving them behind to sigh and mourn.
They never know when they will return.

Cecil Sharp collected a full version titled, "Sweet William," which was sung by Tom Sprachlan at Hambridge, Somerset in September of 1903. [Cecil Sharp Manuscript Collection (at Clare College, Cambridge) (CJS2/10/28)] It's clear that D was very popular around the turn of the century in England and that it replaced C which was exported years earlier and had virtually disappeared in England. D, however was not popular in Scotland, or Ireland, and never had an effect on the versions already established in North America (see only a single stanza from Creighton). Traditional versions stay close to the broadside text except for the added Died for Love ending stanza.

Some Identifiers of Oikotype D
1) "A sailor's life is a merry life"
2) has stanza, "Four-and-twenty sailors, in a row"
3) sweet William
4) "Queen's ship" but varies
5) Has same first two lines beginning "She wrung her hands" in two different stanzas
6) ends, "in her William's arms to lay fast asleep."

Sailor Boy and his Faithful Mary- Oikotype D

1. A sailor's life is a merry life:
They rob young women of their heart's delight,
Leaving them behind to sigh and mourn:
And never know when they will return.

2. Four-and-twenty sailors, in a row;
And my sweet William cuts the brightest show.
He is proper, tall, genteel with all,
If I don't have him I'll have none at all.

3. Father, bring me a little boat
That I may on the ocean float,
And every Queen's ship that I pass by
I may inquire for my sailor boy."

4. She had not sailed on the deep
When a queen's ship she chanced to meet.
You sailors all, pray tell me true,
Does my sweet William sail among your crew?

5. O no, fair lady, he is not here,
For he is drowned, I greatly fear.
On yon green island as we pass by
There we lost sight of our sailor boy.

6. Then she sat down for to write a song,
She wrote it freely and she wrote it long
At every verse she dropped a tear
Saying at the bottom, "I have lost my dear."

7. She wrung her hands and tore her hair,
Jut like a woman in great despair,
Her little boat against a rock did run:
Saying, how can I live now my William's gone.

8. O father, father, come dig my grave
Dig it wide both long and deep
And on my tombstone put two turtle doves
So the world might see that I died for love.

9. She wrung her hands and tore her hair
Just like a lady in deep despair
She flung her body down in the deep
In her true love's arms she fell fast asleep.

* * * *

Oikotype E: US Mid-West and South. This oikotype is not based on any print version but has evolved from a stanza found in Sailing Trade c.1800:

5. The colour of amber is my true love's hair
His red rosy cheeks doth my heart ensnare
His ruby lips are soft, and with charms.
I've lain many a night in his lovely arms.

This stanza is a description by the maid of her Sailor Boy to the Captain so that he may determine if he's seen the Sailor Boy or knows his whereabouts. The order of the text in the first line was changed and has become "Dark/Black is the color of my true love's hair." By placing the stanza first, the variant becomes a version of Oikotype E and several versions are titled "Black is the color." The earliest extant version with "Dark/Black is the color" stanza first was written down by William Larken from Mrs. C. Froyaughehand of Cincinnati, Ohio in 1863 [from Ruth Ann Musick-The Old Album of William A. Larkin; JAFL Vol. 60, 1947]. It is titled, "Sailler[sic] Boy" but the placement of the stanza is first:

Dark was the coler of my true loves hair
His eyes resembled a lady fair
For no one else can give me joy
None will I have but a sweet sailler boy.

Here are two other early examples collected in the US in the early 1900s.

Brown was the color of my true love's hair,
His cheeks resembled a lily's fair.
If ever he returns it will give me joy,
For none can I wed but my sweet sailor boy.
   [2nd stanza, Belden A, 1909 from Mary Van Wormser of the West Plains High School, MO]

Black is the color of my true love's hair,
His cheeks are as red as the roses fair.
If he would return it would give me joy,
For none will I have but my sweet sailor boy.
   [1st stanza, Sailor's Sweetheart- Missouri, collected in 1928 by Randolph]

Compare to the standard 1st stanza of the different folk song "Black is the Color" sung and popularized by Niles:

Dark is the color of my sweetheart's hair;
His cheeks are like some roses fair;
The prettiest face and neatest hands,
I love the ground whereon he stands.
[August 1929, collected by Mellinger Henry from Mary E. King, in Gatlinburg Tennessee.]

The first two lines are essentially the same. In the earlier examples of Oikotype E, the last two lines are virtually the same:

If he would return it would give me joy,
For none will I have but my sweet sailor boy.

Oikotype E, popular in the mid-west US, has the "Dark/Black is the color" first stanza and uses that as its opening replacing the openings stanza of Oikotypes A-D. The remaining stanzas are standard with the "Died fof Love" ending stanza. Another unique stanza associated with Oikotype E follows:

She hadn't been sailing far on the main,
She spied three ships come in from Spain;
She hailed each captain as he drew nigh,
And of him she did inquire of her sweet sailor boy.
    [William H. Landreth's Civil War diary, 1865]

Some Identifiers of Oikotype E
1) Black/Dark is the color
2) bring me joy/sweet sailor boy
3) sailing on the main/ three ships from Spain
4) rocky isle (island)
5) drowned in the gulf
6) She called for a chair
7) sweet William (sweet Willie)

Black is the Color- Oikotype E

1. Black is the color of my true love's hair
His cheeks are like some roses fair
For no one else can give me joy,
None will I have but my sweet sailor boy.

2. Oh father oh father build me a boat
That on the ocean I may float
And every ship that I pass by
I will inquire for my sweet sailor boy

3. Just as she was crossing the main
She spied three ships all out of Spain
And as the captain he drew nigh
She inquired for her sweet sailor boy.

4. "Oh captain, captain tell me true
Does my Sweet William stay with you
Oh tell me quick and give me joy
For none will I have but my sweet sailor boy.

5. "Oh no dear lady, he is not here
He is drowned in the gulf I fear.
Near yon rocky isle as we passed by
There is where we lost your sweet sailor boy."

6. She run her boat against a rock
I thought the lady's heart was broke
She wrung her hands and tore her hair
Like a lady all in despair.

7. She called for a chair to sit upon
A pen and ink to write it down
And at the end of every line she shed a tear
And at the end of every verse cried, "Oh my dear."

8. It's dig my grave both wide and deep
Place a marble tombstone at my head and feet.
And on my breast a turtle dove
To testify that I died for love.

The foundation of Oikotype E is William Larkin's 1863 version. Randolph A is another full version. Some versions, with the identifiers of Oikotype E that have "Black is the color" as a secondary stanza (not the first stanza) also have other opening stanzas from A-D. In the US there's a blending of versions with the "drowned in the gulf," "main/Spain" and "joy/sailor boy" identifiers. The primary opening of versions with "Black is the color" as a secondary stanza is "dreary life" ("cruel life") associated with Scottish B. Following are some versions of Oikotype E, most have "Black is the Color" as the first stanza:

Sailler Boy- Mrs. Froyaughehand (OH) 1863 Larkin
Sailor Boy- Ada Belle Cowden (MO) 1909 Belden B
Sailor's Trade- Mary Van Wormser (MO) 1909 Belden C
Sailor Boy- A. K. Moore (NC) c.1915 Greer LV4
Sailor Boy- Mrs. Thomas (MO) 1928 Randolph A
Soldier Lover- Mary King (TN) 1929 Henry A
Black Is the Color- Cassity (KY) 1937 Lomax
Black is the Color- woman (MO) c.1956 Godsey
Sailor Boy- May Kennedy McCord (MO) c.1958 Beers/Max Hunter D
Black is the Color- Mrs. Bobbie Barnes (MO) 1958 Hunter B
Sweet Soldier Boy- Lee Monroe Presnell (NC) c.1961 Paton
My True Sailor Boy- Susie Daley (OK) pre1962 Moores
Soldier Boy- Buna Hicks (NC) 1966 Burton/Manning
Boatman, Boatman- O.B. Campbell (OK) 1971 Hunter F

It's apparent that Oikotype E is fairly old (guestimated as late 1700s early 1800s) and that some of the identifiers ("main/Spain" and "joy/sailor boy") originated in the US shortly after the ballad was brought over since they are not found in the UK.
* * * *

Richie


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