ORIGINS : Not For Joe

Subject: Lyr Req: Not For Joe
From: alanww
Date: 29 Dec 03 - 10:44 AM

My dear friend Snuffy has previously posted the words we know for Not for Joe as part of the thread om si the gom , started by pavane.
[This song is quite different from the song referred to by Joe Offer in the thread Not For Joseph.]
Clearly the first verse of Not for Joe is at best non-PC and many would say that the use of the word "nigger" is offensive. However, it is a song which was tradionally sung in the second half of the 19th century in Warwickshire and Worcestershire in England at the end of mummers performances (and indeed there is documentary evidence that a dance was performed to that tune).
Question: does anyone know of any further traditional verses, which we could use instead of the offending one? (Obviously, we could make some up ourselves but it would be nice to have use of any traditional ones.)
Thanks.
" ... and he showed it to the girl next door!"
Alan

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Not For Joe
From: Hillheader
Date: 29 Dec 03 - 12:58 PM

Is this the one

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Not For Joe
From: Jacob B
Date: 29 Dec 03 - 05:33 PM

I understand that Not For Joe was an extremely popular tune for Border Morris dances, to the extent that doing those dances was often called "Not For Joeing".

For more information, check out this link: http://notforjoes.org/

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Not For Joe
From: alanww
Date: 05 Jan 04 - 05:41 AM

Any more thoughts?
"... she thought it was a snake ...!"
Alan

Subject: ORIGINS : Not For Joe
From: GeoffLawes
Date: 17 May 17 - 09:31 AM

"Not for Joseph" was a music hall song written by Scottish music hall performer Arthur Lloyd . It was very popular in the second half of the 19th century and had the phrase "Not for Joe" as part of its chorus.
"Not for Joe" is now a well known border morris tune,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwH2w3w-c2s, and I wonder if it is derived from Arthur Lloyd's song ? There is a lot of information about Lloyd's song here ,
"http://www.arthurlloyd.co.uk/NotForJoe.htm">http://www.arthurlloyd.co.uk/NotForJoe.htm ,
and if you scroll towards the bottom of the page it prints Lloyd's musical score. Is this music related to the morris tune? ( I don't read music and cannot tell )

Subject: RE: ORIGINS : Not For Joe
From: GeoffLawes
Date: 17 May 17 - 09:39 AM

Blue click links that work? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwH2w3w-c2s

http://www.arthurlloyd.co.uk/NotForJoe.htm

Subject: RE: ORIGINS : Not For Joe
From: Snuffy
Date: 17 May 17 - 11:14 AM

Neither the words nor the tune of Lloyd's song correspond to the Border Morris version. A common version of the morris words is:

1. We had a little n****r, and he grew no bigger
So we put him in the Wild West Show.
He fell though the window, and he broke his little finger
And he couldn't play his old banjo

Chorus:
Toora-loora-lye-doh
Toora-loora-lye-eye-doh
Toora-loora- lye-doh
Playing on the old banjo
Om si the gomsi, toora-lye-doh
Om si the gomsi, toora-lay
Om si the gomsi, toora-lye-doh
Playing on the old banjo

2. My uncle Billy had a ten foot willy
And he showed it to the girl next door.
She thought it was a snake, so she hit it with a rake
And now it's only five-foot-four.

Subject: RE: ORIGINS : Not For Joe
From: Jack Campin
Date: 17 May 17 - 11:38 AM

That second verse is the only bit I've ever heard in the wild, as a kid in New Zealand.

Subject: RE: ORIGINS : Not For Joe
From: Mr Red
Date: 18 May 17 - 02:45 AM

Dave Jones (Bromyard FF founder) found old Morris men and reported that some said they weren't Morris dancers they wus "Na' fer Joes". He wrote a book on what he found about Morris in the Herefordshire Worcestershire area.

Book still available the Roots of Welsh Border Morris.

Subject: RE: ORIGINS : Not For Joe
From: GUEST,Sintika4eva
Date: 30 Jun 22 - 05:49 PM

My great grandfather sang the song to me every night at bedtime..he died on 2006 at age of 94 Iowa USA..i distinctly remember the verse once was a little nigger who wouldnt grow no bigger