Folk Songs to Ditch

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: Rollo
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 06:26 PM

My favorite to ditch is not a folk song to ditch but folks ditching a song.

Everytime I try to sing "the wild rover" like I want to sing it (a little bit sad because having thrown away my life so far and now trying to make it better)the drunken crowd starts to howl and cheer and spoil it.

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 05:22 PM

Haven't heard the Four Seasons version, but Johhny Ashe has probably got it in his record collection...he's got everything. I'll see.

The Joan Baez version is on a recent CD where she does duets with a number of younger female folksingers of the present era.

The CD is called "Ring Them Bells" (after the Dylan song), and was released by EMI in 1995. It's great.

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: GUEST,Airto
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 01:27 PM

Sorry, Littlehawk

I don't know the Joan Baez version of Don't Think Twice. But the Four Seasons version is a masterpiece. It has Frankie Valli singing in his highest falsetto, the backing group echoes the line endings, and there's a doop oopy woop chorus at the end. Does anyone know what Bob Dylan ever thought of it?

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: GUEST,Airto
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 01:19 PM

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 12:03 PM

Guantanamera is a real drag to hear when done badly by North Americans who only know 3 verses of it. It's a joy to hear when done well by Cubans who know probably 50 verses of it (they're always making up new ones...).

They have even composed some humorous verses for it. You need a good translator to get the joke.

Is "Leaving On A Jet Plane" a folksong? If so, bury it in the deepest hole you can find.

"Don't Think Twice, It's All Right" is in some ways a strikingly honest song...although very politically incorrect in these times, and even in its own original time...that's one reason why I like it. Then too, it has some brilliant lyrical and musical passages in it.

The song was essentially about Suze Rotolo, Bob's very serious girlfriend in the early 60's ("the true fortune teller of my heart"). She is pictured on the cover of "The Freewheelin' Bob Dylan", walking down a New York sidewalk with Bob. People who knew them at the time remarked on how absolutely happy and close they were, but the relationship deteriorated as Bob's career escalated. That often tends to happen. It's hard to say who cared more...Bob or Suze...but it is evident that they both cared a great deal. Most of the love songs on Bob's first 4 albums are about Suze. They range from worshipful to wistful to angry to despairing. "Boots Of Spanish Leather" is one of them.

Has anyone heard Joan Baez sing "Don't Think Twice" with the Indigo Girls? What a fantastic rendition!

Baez, by the way, infuriated Suze at some big festival (Newport?) by introducing the song onstage and saying something like "This is a song about a relationship that should have ended some time ago" (I may not have the wording dead on...but that was the general gist of what she said). Suze stormed off...she suspected Bob was involved with Joan, and she was right.

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: GUEST,Ann Singleton
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 12:02 PM

As an Ilkley person, I can say that the abolition of our so-called Yorkshire anthem might at least liberate those of us who are shy about singing (especially about singing awful songs) from having to play the "token Tyke" every time a particular type of cringe-making compulsory "folk evening" starts up. It's the equivalent of being forced to do Scottish country dancing at school.

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: Midchuck
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 11:36 AM

What pastorpest said.

Peter.

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: pastorpest
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 11:18 AM

There are a lot of great songs here that people are currently weary of. Good songs with good melodies and good lyrics that stimulate heart and mind are simply going to come back and back. There can be too much of a good thing.

I know that there is an explosion of singer/songwriters around and from this explosion good songs emerge. But my beef is with all the singer/songwriter songs that have neither lyric nor melody worth a tinker's damn. There have been folk festivals spoiled for me by overdosing on such dribble. The one good thing about these songs is they are instantly forgettable and have a built in self-ditching quality.

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: GUEST, Banjo Johnny
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 04:04 AM

Golly! All my best stuff has just been 86'ed. This leaves me with: We Shall Overcome, What a Friend We Have in Jesus, Red River Valley, You Are My Sunshine, and Home On the Range. And my big finish, Aloha Oe.

Does this mean I should learn new tunes?? == Johnny

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: GUEST,Sean McR
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 01:47 AM

I'vejust come onto this thread, and have seen, and read some very coherent statements. Also some tongue-in-cheek ones. My personal opinion is that, as a professional Irish folk singer, you have to give the paying public what they are asking for. Otherwise I'm back to another form of work. The "best ditched category" will never really be fully decided, but will continue to grow, almost exponentially. And I agree that the overexposure of a good song will merit inclusion in the 'ditch' list. Whilst back home in Ireland, I played with a group that gigged 4 nights a week; and every night we'd get at least 4 requests for Willie McBride/Greenfields of France. The song itself is a good one, (Thanks, Eric), but the overexposure kills it. Two more quick points: 1-(for Alan in Australia) Edmund Fitz came along before Back Home in Derry, just see Christy Moore's "Ride On" album, he gives credit to Gordon Lightfoot on the liner notes. 2- IRA ballads, like most Irish music, relate a particular event in Irish history. If you listen, you'll understand. Thanks for listening, Slan go foill ('bye for now) Sean

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: katmuse
Date: 30 Jan 99 - 12:38 PM

Great humorous thread, but Amen, Craig!

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: Craig
Date: 30 Jan 99 - 04:40 AM

Well! I can't believe I read the whole thing. Aaack! Thud! Personally I think I would like to ditch this whole thread for about 10 years. There are a lot of good songs that have gone bad and a lot of bad songs that still hang around. They all have one thing in common. Somewhere someone still likes them. So enjoy and God Bless.

Craig

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: alison
Date: 30 Jan 99 - 02:45 AM

Hi,

It's not folk. But in my book most things by Julio Inglesias are right up (or should that be down?) there with Joe Dolce's "Shut up a your face.", and whatever that truly awful Ren and Renate thing was that got to number 1 in the UK.....??? "Save your love my darling, save your love...."

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: heidi
Date: 30 Jan 99 - 01:50 AM

I don't know if this is classified as "folk", but I HATE "To All the Girls I've Loved"!!!!!!! Who is this Julio Ugliasias anyway?

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: John In Mendocino
Date: 30 Jan 99 - 01:19 AM

Anybody ever heard of the song "Rosie's House of Sin" about a bordello near Fresno? Or how about some sort of ditty with the words "Hirsute Syndicate" ??? Thanks

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: Richk
Date: 20 Jan 99 - 04:19 PM

I gotta throw my 2 cents (anyone need change?) in and say it's the singer more than the song.

One of the great lures for me to folk music is its context and spontaneity. When I was a teenager pouring over bad rock and roll albums, the point was to attempt to recreate the song note for note on guitar and spill it back to an audience. You were proud if someone heard you playing and thought it was a Pink Floyd record.

With the folk tradition, as a performer, you go on stage and are full aware that a lot of people in the audience would've heard a certain song time and time again. As a performer, you're forced to make the song your own in some way. You think about the song and you think about where you are. Then you start to play and what happens in that time and place is you converse with the audience, musically, and, at least in the Irish pub scene, the audience usually feels pretty comfortable responding to what you're doing in a real and immediate sense.

I remember as a kid hearing my extended relations break into Danny Boy after a wedding and then again after my grandmother's funeral. In those two instances, I heard two very different songs.

At the end of a wedding, it marks a necessary and inevitable break with the past with some hope for a redemptive future. At the end of a funeral, well, it's the end of a funeral. In both moments, there were tears and toasts and some swaying around the room.

I also remember the first night I played in NYC with an Irish trio. I was nervous; it was my debut with a somewhat established outfit and I was still learning a few of the original songs they were writing.

The first two sets went ok. We were all still getting to know each other, so we were more concentrating on the music more than the crowd. I had no idea how we were being received. At the end of the night, exhausted but happy, we broke into The Wild Rover.

I will never forget the moment we hit the chorus and the whole room started clapping and then singing along. Anyone holding a beer bottle crashed it down on the table. It was a grand craic.

So there you have it. The times I've really been turned off by a song have been the times I've heard it sung without an appreciation of the context or its meaning.

Folk songs cover the full range of human experience and emotion. Some singers might not appreciate that at times. I've heard "Cerrickfergus" sung as an upbeat song (my friend first thought the line was "I wish I was in Kerry Fergus" because of the upbeat rhythm). If a singer thinks he/she absolutely HAS to sing "Charlie on the MTA" or that one about the Scotsman winning the blue ribbon just because the bar has a neon shamrock in the window, then you're probably in for a pretty dull evening.

By the way, the only version of Lakes of Pontchatrain(sic) I've ever heard that didn't make my skin crawl was by Christy Moore. Seems like the author could've shortened us the lyric a whole bunch...

Rich

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: Cuilionn
Date: 18 Jan 99 - 12:40 PM

I cannae believe "Scotland th' Brave haes nae earned mair vitriol than twa oor three mentions... Th' rest o' ye hae ne'er suffered thro' an entire day on some blisterin'-hot fairgroond durin' th' Highland Games, listenin' tae twenty-hunnert blastit pipers playin' it up, doon, sideways, an' taegither in terrifyin' degrees o' unison an' lack thereof. An' th' few guid pipers whae avoid it oot o' some deep moral fortitude are bound tae hae some Braveheart-T-shirt-wearin' eejit walk up wi' liquid refreshment in hand, askin' them tae play "The Old Spice Song..."

Th' mere SICHT o' "Carrickfergus," "She Moved Thro' The Fair," oor "Athenrye" on a cd oor cassette label is eno' tae mak me drop a recording back intae th' bin an' run screamin' frae ony music shop. "Danny Boy" wis INDEED wrichten in Tin Pan Alley an' I ance tortured a piper friend in a moment o' deviltry by playin' it on th' theramin at a children's museum in front o' her. If her young son wisnae there with us, I'm sure she'd o' murdered me richt then an' there. Noo, I'm basically a gourmand an' willin' tae endure muckle tae spread th' gospel o' what music can dae for folks, but tho' I cringe tae admit ma ain snobbery, I'm layin' it doon richt here for a' tae see. An' I'm muckle obliged for th' opportunity!

This may be a wee bit obscure, but if I gae tae ane mair Gaelic-only ceilidh whaur folk are singin' "Fear a' Bhata," (The boatman) I'm gang tae find th' puir sot's wee boatie an' drill holes in it. Ane o' th' women in oor circle wrocht a parody called "Fear a' Bhainne", ("The Milkman") which wis hysterical.

Yirs amang th' guid, bad an' ugly,

--Cuilionn

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: Stubs
Date: 17 Jan 99 - 07:02 PM

Don't ditch any! If you are sick of it (usually because of overexposure)then turn it off if you are a listener , re-work it if you are a player. There is nothing better than hearing a new twist to an old standby, especially if you are hoping the standby will lay down and die!

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: bbelle
Date: 17 Jan 99 - 01:18 PM

I would have to vote for 500 Miles, Lemon Tree, and Where Have All the Flowers Gone. The Baez Ring Them Bell CD put a new slant on several old folk tunes which I found refreshing. There are a few "folk" songs which I have refused to sing and some others are definitely overdone, but I've been doing this for 30+ years and when I first heard them or sang them, it was great. So, maybe a few of us are jaded with a bit of the old stuff, but what about the "new" generation of folkies? It's new to them ... allow them the pleasure of the experience. They'll tire soon enough of singing/playing them, too. And ... every 4th of July my father's family congregates for a week in Morehead City, NC for the annual family reunion. We do all the kids' things during the day and at night we gather together at one of the cottages and sing and play music. We do a lot of the old stuff, including 'Will the Circle Be Unbroken because all the aunts and uncles are in their 70's and 80's and love to sing along, etc. Isn't that what this is all about ... sharing? Believe me when I say I'm neither a maudlin individual, nor am I steeped in nostalgis, but the cynicisn is wearing on me. jenny

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: Garry
Date: 16 Jan 99 - 09:36 PM

To Alan of Australia and Alison, I would ditch most of them particularly the Irish and English ones

Cheers

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 16 Jan 99 - 03:12 AM

OK here are my nominees 1The Unicorn. This song is true vomit fodder."Humpty-backed camels" for Christ sake. 2Where are you going my little one. They ran this behind a Kodak ad years ago on tv until I had to cover my ears and shout obscenities to drown it out.3 I'd like to teach the world to sing. Another commercial craw-sticker featuring hundreds of happy robots holding hands and singing and trading bottles of coke4Ballad of the Green Berets. This one had it all..God, Country. Death. Fearless men who jump and die. GET A PARACHUTE!!! 5 Eve of Destruction. Other side of the coin from the Berets, but just as loathsome.This guy had the nerve to rhyme "red China" with "Selma Alabama" 6 Green green grass of home. The definition of maudlin tripe. Another great rhyme- "Padre" and "daybreak" 7 Houses Made of Ticky Tacky Now here was some condescending, repetitive, lets-sit-in-the-coffeehouse-and-make-fun-of-the-straight-people garbage. Seeger (not Bob...Pete) should serve 10 to 20 in a tract home outside Cleveland for that one. 8 Sunshine on my Shoulder...or was it Annie's Song. Bet this was a contributing factor in John Denver's divorce.9 A Man needs a Maid. This was almost redeemed by the hilarity it engendered in all who heard Neil Young sing it.Was he seeking a housekeeper? 10 The wreck of the....well you know the rest. You could hear the beginning of this on the radio, get out of the car, have lunch and the damn thing was still stumbling on like the inevitable onslaught of a large wounded animal. ......of course,take all this with a grain of salt. I was nuts about MacArthur Park

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: Susan A-R
Date: 16 Jan 99 - 01:38 AM

This is quite a thread. It's interesting to me that when Joan Baez and the Indigo Girls sing "Don't Think Twice" I don't mind it so much. I haven't heard or sung "jMichael" in years, so I don't greet it with the same level of horror. My current work schedule (11 hour days in the kitchen) does make it difficult for me to sing with other folks, so I guess I'm not so picky about repeats. I'd sing almost anything with almost anyone in order to be able to harmonize (I sing a Lot in the Kitchen but it isn't the same without harmony.) I'm also really curious about finding ways to work up old familliar tunes. For example, some of us have found that "Swing Low" and "Ezekiel" fit together nicely, as do "I saw Three Ships" and "Bring a Torch"

There is a lot of material I'd hate to throw out with the RUS (was that Rats of Unusual Size??) I'm particularly fond of "Oh Had I a Golden Thread" "Sally Gardens" "Willie O Winesbury" "Chat With Your Mother" "Lads O' The Fair" and "In Your Daughters and Your Sons."

I DO have a hard time with singer/songwriters hitting me over the head with their oh-so-clever images, in=depth navel examination (I didn't know navels were that LARGE) and/or ultra political correctness without humor, poetry, or intelligence. It's always made me very nervous about singing anything I've written.

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: Roger in Baltimore
Date: 16 Jan 99 - 12:20 AM

Of overexposed songs, I'd have to vote for "City of New Orleans." A ten year rest might be appropriate. I think I might vote for most of John Denver's and Gordon Lightfoot's repertoire most of it to saccharine for me.

Roger in Baltimore

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From:
Date: 14 Jan 99 - 06:22 PM

Susan of Calif.

STAR SPANGLED BANNER.... (is it a Folk song?)

It's 'Over exposed CRAP.

Alan of Aussie. Silly Song. Want to see something silly?

LOOK IN THE MIRROR.

Bill, Welcome to Mudcat. It's nice to see such obviously young people join in the discussions.

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: Lesley N.
Date: 14 Jan 99 - 05:18 PM

OK - I've waited for someone to to mention "My Bonnie Lies Over the Ocean" and "Clementine" - but no one has. Are they covered in the 'Rise Up Singing' group? (I too have never seen the book).

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: McMusicMcMusic
Date: 14 Jan 99 - 02:11 AM

Would LOVE to add: When Irish Eyes Are Smiling Mother Macree McNamara's Band

Not Irish folk songs you say? Exactly my point, yet some people insist on identifying them as such!! Drives me crazy! That and Too-ra-loo-raloo-ra!!! And God bless those who voted for Michael Row The Boat Ashore. Sometimes I think I'll open up an artery if I hear that song again!

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: Dawncampfire
Date: 14 Jan 99 - 12:52 AM

And we are glad that you don't, Dick. I wouldn't even want "Angel" ditched completely. I just would like to NOT hear it quite so often. Maybe if everyone in my open mike group would be courteous enough to come for the whole evening instead of just long enough to get on stage for their 15 minutes of "fame".....Again, it's more a problem of people than the songs.

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 13 Jan 99 - 07:06 PM

Sorry, The DT doesn't ditch anything. Though at times, I've considered the idea...

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: phinquephinque
Date: 13 Jan 99 - 06:55 PM

If the songs don't get sung, they don't get passed along. That's how some of these songs got to us prior to RUS.

I have trouble with listening to a singer song writer (some exceptions Paxton, Lavin) who does a program of only his(or her) songs of which many..or all are not very good.

I second Kris' comment about courteous listening at song circles. Groups at informal "campfire" sings somehow seem to like the overdone songs. Maybe because we all know all the words and it's too dark to read the song

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: Jo Taylor
Date: 12 Jan 99 - 08:34 PM

Just taken about half an hour to read this thread - no-one's yet mentioned 'Four Strong Winds'.
When at its height of 'oh no not again-ness' it was heard - see Dawn's experience above - no less than three times in the same evening, it must be really baffling for the poor performers when the entire audience cracks up!
It was the first song I ever learnt to sing & play and I loved it - well, I was only 12 years old. Not sure if it falls into the category of 'overexposed' or 'not terribly good in the first place'. Please excuse me if some odd letters appear in this message - trying some HTML
line
breaks
Jo

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: Dan Keding
Date: 12 Jan 99 - 08:32 PM

While there are several songs out there that I could live forever happily without hearing again I have to agree with Kris. I'm sure when many of us started we sang songs that others wanted dead and buried. For the most part those folks suffered through our folkie beginnings and I guess we should return the favor. The good songs will last, cream always rises to the top. The good singers will always be appreciated. I also sometimes shudder when I see that Blue Book come out but it sure started a lot of people singing and I'd rather they were singing, even songs I hate, then staying home and watchinh t.v. and ignoring the music altogether. Dan

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Jan 99 - 12:19 PM

for those who sometimes 'sing' limericks..(various tunes are used..)

I DID once sing at our local song circle this little ditty..click if you would be amused by the ultimate 'well farted'

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: Kris
Date: 12 Jan 99 - 07:18 AM

Well, I think that if I like a song I shall damn well sing it. And so do a lot of other people. At the singing circle I have recently joined I am quite happy to listen to ANYONE sing ANYTHING and I don't care whether they are off key, squeeky, or singing something I don't like. That is because they extend the same courtesy to me. And to anyone that sneers at someone else's choice of songs and execution - well who made you the god of music then? That's not to say you can't BE fed up of something & discuss said fed-up-ness, but not to the extent of making amateur performers afraid of being ridiculed. The nice thing about the circle I have joined is that, as my husband remarked (tho he ma have been exaggerating just a little), you could fart in a glass and they would all say 'well farted'. And I think that's a good thing. The attitude not the farting.

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: Dawn
Date: 12 Jan 99 - 01:23 AM

I was recently at an open mike night where - because some people come later, hopefully for a better reason than because then they don't have to listen to the earlier performers - those of us who stayed for the entire evening sat through THREE renditions of "Angel from Montgomery". In one night. By the time the third performer started in on it, half the pub was almost rolling on the floor.

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From:
Date: 11 Jan 99 - 10:24 PM

"Where Have All The Flowers Gone?"

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: jeffs
Date: 11 Jan 99 - 10:17 PM

ANY song that gets done time after time can make the list. I dreaded the City of New Orleans for a while. I still have an urge to take a black marker to the Rose.

I'll nominate American Pie for the WISH list. But it's soo much fun to try.

Since RUS is taking some more abuse I should point out that there're 1200 songs in there. You really should be able to go a few months without repeating ;^)

jeff "moving from a town with 3 circles to one with 8 helps too"

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: Ralph Butts
Date: 11 Jan 99 - 04:53 PM

Re: Paul's Item 2, above, I would add "Loch Lomond", always done way, way out of context......Tiger

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: Allan. S
Date: 11 Jan 99 - 02:37 PM

Wow what a thread more fun What I can't stand are the PC songs that start with the following statement "And then I wrote this song because people are dying in -------" fill in the blank any country will do. If we all sing it we can save the world.

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: Paul Stamler
Date: 11 Jan 99 - 01:59 PM

A few miscellaneous thoughts: 1) Danny Boy -- can we separate the superb tune, collected from a tinker in Co. Derry in the mid 19th century, from the sodden lyrics, written (I believe) by some tin pan alley hack? 2) Would someone please put a large billboard in every city with folksingers, telling them that "Goodnight Irene" isn't a jolly, roaring farewell song, but a trip into the depths from a man who has lost his wife and his lover and is seriously contemplating suicide? 3) I quite like Louis Killen's version of "Waltzing Matilda", which keeps its eye on the class relationships. 4) "Wedding Song" is the best reason I know to live in sin. 5) The problem with "Amazing Grace" is that performers (pro and amateur) use it as a tool to induce a particular mood, and it's always manipulative. "OK, folks, you're gonna feel holy now!" Feh. Try the shape-note version, which is harder to abuse. Others I'd love to see disappear: that damned song about the Irish immigrant cowboy who killed lots of people, stole, cheated, but was basically a good sort because he liked slip jigs and reels. "Kilkelly", another sentimentalized bosh. "Whishkey in the Jar". "Thanksgiving Eve". I'll grant "The Sick Note" clemency, but it sure has been overdone. Outside the folk realm, *any* "gonzo" Christmas song should be deep-sixed forever, unless it was written by Tom Lehrer. Okay, I'll stop now.

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From:
Date: 26 Jun 97 - 12:05 PM

even worse than hearing 99 bottles of beer sung all the way through, though.. is hearing it sung in hexadecimal... a friend of mine did that to her family on a trip once.. started at FF bottles and got through all 256 refrains, down to 00 bottles.

And there's the ever popular "infinity bottles of beer on the wall" which we managed to sing for an entire half hour with nobody killing us while waiting in line for a ride at Disney.. :)

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From:
Date: 25 Jun 97 - 06:48 PM

Much as the vast, hovering body of folk music may, like grandmaternal embraces or avuncular dutch-rubs, seem oppressive at times, one could not decently think of hacking off a bit of it any more than one would consider removing a large swath of Granny's mid-section with a samurai sword or flattening Uncle Bill's knuckles with a meat mallet.

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From:
Date: 25 Jun 97 - 03:33 PM

I second the motion to ditch 99 Bottles of Beer. I personally had to ditch the song at age 15. It was on a train (tells you how old I am) to camp (Royal Canadian Air Cadets - tells you again.) Someone started singing and his seat mates joined in. They did the whole works down to no bottles of beer. Just as we were breathing a sigh of relief the instigator sang the following.

No bottles of beer on the wall
No bottles of beer
Take one down, pass it around
Minus one bottles of beer on the wall.

He stopped at this point. Someone's hands were around his neck. I've never sung it since and I'll bet he hasn't either.

Frank Phillips

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: Bill D
Date: 25 Jun 97 - 03:14 PM

I heard "Amazing Grace" played on the Alpenhorn a few years ago...it was VERY nice!! (*grin*...maybe a bagpipe & Alpenhorn duet)

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From:
Date: 25 Jun 97 - 02:40 PM

I agree that a lot of the problem with many of the songs is that they're overplayed or done badly. Unfortunately, that tends to ruin the sweetness of getting the occasional taste of a song done well. I was at the Winterguard championships in Wildwood, NJ this past spring and saw a guard perform to a beautiful version of "Danny Boy".. since it WAS well done and I hadn't heard it recently, it DID bring tears to my eyes.

My submissions:

The Ball of Ballynore (a.k.a. The Gathering of the Clans): Most people probably don't hear this often, but at a Renaissance Festival it's likely to get you set upon by every kilt-boy, actor, and volunteer in sight because we've heard it so damned much! However, a new verse can still occasionally be welcomed with a laugh.

Come Forth: I don't know how widely known this one is, but it's a "Here Comes the Bride" type of thing. "Come forth, come forth from Lebanon, my bride; Come forth, come forth from Lebanon, my spouse; Come draw near, come draw near, my fair one." etc.. I made my mother promise that if/when I get married, she'll make the choir NOT sing it for me, otherwise I'm going to refuse to walk down the aisle. :)

99 Bottles of Beer on the Wall

Amazing Grace on the bagpipes: I never heard this until maybe last year, and suddenly it's all that the pipers know how to play! Now, since I hate hearing a good song mangled, this was occasion for fist-clenching, frantic whimpering, and serious thoughts of setting my clan-cousins on the pipers. However, has anybody heard Ani DiFranco's version of AG? It's beautiful because it's done in a different style.

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: Peter Timmerman
Date: 23 Jun 97 - 05:12 PM

Dear Bob, I am sort of maintaining a watch on this -- I also have a stack of e-mails -- and at some point I intend to post the (interim?) results. Your categories are pretty good. I have been fiddlng away with overdone and half-baked (for the PC songs). A real problem is drawing a line so that bad pop songs are excluded. They crop up a lot on lists. We have been this way before....Also, given the nature of the contributors, there is a North American folkie/Celtic pub divide (If I can simplify drastically) that needs to be reflected in the final listings. Fun, though. Yours, Peter

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: Bob Clayton
Date: 23 Jun 97 - 02:12 PM

Let's see -- one part "done badly" and two parts "done to death," mixed with "poorly (or worse) conceived" makes for an interesting list. This thread, which I just read in toto, having just decided to look over the discussion forum that Bill D keeps mentioning, keeps wobbling back and forth about the songs. We orta organize 'em:

Songs that are Okay, but Overdone (SOO Songs):

Michael's Boat (so overdone in its day that it's not done much at all, but still gets "those looks" when started); the Wedding Song (I, too, don't actually recognize this one, as in "hear it in my head when the title is mentioned"); Walting with Fauna ('nuff said); Waltzing Matilda (does the purported "charm" of this song derive from those Australian terms that the singer can claim to know when the audiene supposedly doesn't -- or actually didn't when the song was first commited?) (For the English majors out there -- you know who you are -- I bet you can't parse THAT sentence!) and probably most of the others already mentioned.

Poorly Done Ditties (Yes!) (PIDDY Songs):

MacArthur Park, and much of Paul Simon's later (post-1970) work (the charm of "Graceland" is NOT in the lyrical qualities of the pieces, and I say this despite very much liking to hear the CD); "Mao Tse Tung" by Ewan MacColl (if it's not his worst, I don't wanna hear what is!) A sh*tload of other topical and PC songs (Hugh Manatee is right up there, fer shur!) Most of those songer-singwriter songs that are so personal that ONLY the writer would sing 'em. I write songs, too, but at least try to come up with something someone else might LIKE to sing. (If anyone asks, I'll post "I Feel, I Feel" -- a collaboration with some friends -- but ONLY if someone asks.) (I can hear it now -- Don't Ask, Don't Tell!)

Well, It Sings Hard (WISH Songs) -- songs that are hard to do properly, but are done anyway, usually by people who shouldn't have attempted them: Star Spangled Banner ANY Leonard Cohen song and most old ballads with Phrygian, Lochrian or other "odd" modes in the tune. They get discovered and perpetrated on recording, then the vox populi attempt them, with disastrous results.

This has gotten longer than I intended, but my song-circle friends expect it of me, so I had to comply. Sort of the prose equivalent of "I keep getting asked for this song." If we look hard, we can find terrible songs, good songs done to death, and professional-driver-on-closed-course, don't-try-this-at-home songs. Our resulting list should probably be annotated to reflect the categories.

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: Jack
Date: 10 Jun 97 - 04:44 PM

Annie, I agree with you about Rise Up Singing. As I indicated in a recent thread in this forum (see IN DEFENSE OF RUS), it is mainly critized not on its own merits, but on the way some use it, (or overuse it as the case may be).

In fact, a lot of complaints in the current thread are less about songs than about the taste or behavior of other singers. The complaints are in the general format of

I HATE SONG X BECAUSE....

A) Everyone wants to sing it all the time B) Nobody wants to sing my songs because they always sing SONG X. C) Too many people sing SONG X really badly.

None of which have much to do with the song itself.

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: Joe Offer
Date: 10 Jun 97 - 02:35 PM

I'll second the motion on ditching "It's only a Wee-Wee" in the 'Rise Up Singing' songbook. We have a 6-yr-old in one song circle who requests that song every darn month. We sing it, because that's better than making an issue of it. Songs like that, the ones that push political agendas or try too hard to be politically correct, those must be the most obnoxious songs ever written. Give me a plate of greasy grimy gopher guts any time, rather than that garbage.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From: Annie Talley
Date: 10 Jun 97 - 01:27 PM

I've been reading this since no one answered my thread on the words to "I'm a truthful fellow".It is very funny. I got to thinking though it's not really the song that needs ditching it's more the people who do them and the WAY they are done.My son was in his room yesterday and was playing an "alternative" version of "Boil Them Cabbage Down" on his electric guitar and it was quite awesome. Two scenes come to mind and one is where John Belushi (in animal house) smashes a guitar over some one's head who is singing "I gave my love a cherry" and the other one where that guy on beevis and butthead that wears the shirt with the peace sign on it is sitting around a campfire singing "men have feelings too". I was at Mt. Airy last weekend for the fiddler's convention and I was singing "Will the Circle be Unbroken" and some hairy pitted hippie chick started singing "will the fetus be aborted" and I was like geeeeeeeeeehhhhh. As far as "Rise up singing" there's too much good stuff in there to trash it. I could sing Lakes of the Ponchartrain a gazillion times.But there are plenty in there that do SUCK - like isn't there one about a penis and it goes something like "it's only a pee-pee"- this one should be first on the list for sure. Oh well, that's my 2 cents.

Subject: RE: FOLK SONGS TO DITCH
From:
Date: 10 Jun 97 - 12:45 PM

About the waltzingmatilda site above. Maybe it had the original words there but I gave up before I found them.