Manchester Explosion May 22, 2017

Subject: RE: Manchester Explosion May 22, 2017
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 May 17 - 04:57 AM

Dave, there had been speculation here about the background of the killer.
I caught the announcement and passed on the information given, which was carried by all the media.

That does not make me a "sick puppy" and I think it would be better not to resort to abuse and name calling on this of all threads.

Subject: RE: Manchester Explosion May 22, 2017
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 May 17 - 04:57 AM

Ignore them Jim. Don't let this hate fueled tragedy turn into another hate fueled thread.

DtG

Subject: RE: Manchester Explosion May 22, 2017
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 May 17 - 03:15 AM

An "Arab Springer"
It hasn't taken long for the extreme extremist on the forum to turn the discussion from a horrific crime into an attack on the Arab/Muslim people as a whole
Personally, I find little difference in Ake's attitude and that of the bomber - both bigoted, hate filled less-than-human beings.
Under the dictators and the archaic dynasties that Britain and the other Empires left in their wake when we pulled out, the Arab people as a whole continued to be exploited and oppressed - we assisted that oppression with our support, politically and economically, and we benefitted from it economically
We sold the despots weapons to keep the people down and we filled our shops with goods manufactured in appalling conditions for minuscule wages - we even waged war to keep our cars on the road.
The Arab Spring was a spontaneous reaction of the poor people of several nations to better their lot.
Failing to recognising or support this fact, our Governments at best, payed lip service and did nothing, at worst. rowed in on the side of the dictators, selling them weapons and describing genuine opposition as "terrorism".
Libya was typical - we described Qadaffi as a despot, yet sold him weapons and trained his son to take over - the two sides in the uprising were killing each other with weapons supplied by Britain.
The end result was ISIS, a small, unknown sect of nutters who grew into the monster it has become by feeding on the vacuum we created - ISIS is a creation of our indifference and self-interested attitude.
It is inevitable that poor people as a whole will attempt to improve their lot and better their conditions, just as it is inevitable that people like Ake will sneer at their efforts to do so.
The future of this planet hangs on our winning the hearts and minds of the poorer nations and assisting them develop, rather than continuing to profit from their poverty and backwardness.
In general, immigrants from these countries who have come to Britain to seek better lives, have become part of our society (when allowed to) and added to it.   
If we don't realise that the world is full of friends we haven't met yet, incidents like Manchester, London and 9/11 will become like buses - there'll be another one along in a minute.
Maggie T described the miners as 'The Enemy Within' - as far as I am concerned, that honour firmly lies with the home-grown venomous bigots in our midst
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Manchester Explosion May 22, 2017
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 May 17 - 02:54 AM

"Meanwhile, the Christian angle on it:

Stop pretending to be a thick twat, Jack. You know very well that he no more represents the values of Christians than the bomber represents those of Muslims.

You're using Daily Mail tactics. Have a bit of self-respect and knock it off.

Subject: RE: Manchester Explosion May 22, 2017
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 May 17 - 08:42 PM

But the wrong kind of regeneration - the kind we've seen so much of in all our cities.

Subject: RE: Manchester Explosion May 22, 2017
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 May 17 - 08:36 PM

Perhaps you misunderstand the sentiment behind Ewan's words. I think he was pleading for the regeneration of what was a complete shitheap. I was in Salford at the end of April, finding my great uncle's name on the WWI memorial in the cathedral. It was there, misspelled. Salford still isn't great, is it?

Subject: RE: Manchester Explosion May 22, 2017
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 May 17 - 08:06 PM

The "Christian" equivalent of Isis there, Jack, and about as representative.
..........
I agree with you about that verse in Dirty Old Town.

Subject: RE: Manchester Explosion May 22, 2017
From: Jack Campin
Date: 23 May 17 - 07:24 PM

And it seem the bomber came from Salford:

I'm going to take a good sharp ax
Shining steel tempered in the fire
We'll chop you down like an old dead tree
Dirty old town, dirty old town

I never much liked that. Be careful what you wish for...

Subject: RE: Manchester Explosion May 22, 2017
From: Jack Campin
Date: 23 May 17 - 06:55 PM

Meanwhile, the Christian angle on it:

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2017/05/23/christian-extremist-the-manchester-victims-were-sluts-whores-and-sodomy-lovers/

Subject: RE: Manchester Explosion May 22, 2017
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 23 May 17 - 06:19 PM

One piece of moderately good news it that they have now found one of the 2 missing girls from Barra: in hospital undergoing treatment for serious injuries.

Subject: RE: Manchester Explosion May 22, 2017
From: akenaton
Date: 23 May 17 - 05:33 PM

Before we helped kill Gaddafi and leave Libya in a shambles, he assured us he was fighting Jihadists not democrats.
Now the Jihadists roam free and their supporters in Britain kill our children.

Subject: RE: Manchester Explosion May 22, 2017
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 May 17 - 05:23 PM

I see significant differences, Big Al. The motives involved are not the same. But in both cases there is a readiness to kill large numbers of innocent people. That is not a trivial similarity.

Subject: RE: Manchester Explosion May 22, 2017
From: akenaton
Date: 23 May 17 - 04:59 PM

There doesn't need to be "many".
They seem to be accomplishing their vile deeds quite effectively in ones and twos.

Subject: RE: Manchester Explosion May 22, 2017
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 May 17 - 04:54 PM

"i couldn't give a shit if he was in Green Peace - he shouldn't have done that. i don't know why we seem to be producing so many anti social buggers."

Let's keep this in proportion. Opportunities to cause mayhem are abundant, yet it hardly ever happens. Any loony could stroll into the crowded bag-drop area of any airport with a couple of gallons of petrol in a rucksack, and...well I won't go on. The fact is that, despite the opportunities, it very rarely happens. It's shocking when it does but I don't think there are quite as many antisocial buggers of such extreme intent as you seem to be suggesting.

Subject: RE: Manchester Explosion May 22, 2017
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 May 17 - 04:13 PM

Misrepresentation and political rhetoric

The bomber has been named.
He was of Libyan origin.

It seems this lunatic was a supporter of one of the groups which we assisted, in deposing and murdering Colonel Gaddafi.

An "Arab Springer"

Actual fact

Born in Manchester in 1994, the second youngest of four children his parents were Libyan refugees who came to the UK to escape the Gaddafi regime.

Sick puppies trying to make political points out of the death of innocents. I suggest that we ignore them.

DtG

Subject: RE: Manchester Explosion May 22, 2017
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 23 May 17 - 04:12 PM

I'm sorry you perceive no moral difference in the people who defend our country, and the nutter who can't be arsed to get his GCSE's and do a normal sort of job - so he chooses this sort of outlaw act - cleaning the streets up, i believe the Yorkshire Ripper called it.

Perhaps you are right and there is no difference.

Come a long way haven't we?

Subject: RE: Manchester Explosion May 22, 2017
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 May 17 - 03:04 PM

And yet when Theresa May said in the House of Commons that she would be willing to launch a nuclear attack killing hundreds of thousands of innocent people she was applauded. When Jeremy Corbyn said on TV that he would not be willing it was widely said that this proved he was unfit to be Prime Minister.

We seem to have different attitudes towards some kinds of suicide bombers.

Subject: RE: Manchester Explosion May 22, 2017
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 23 May 17 - 02:55 PM

i couldn't give a shit if he was in Green Peace - he shouldn't have done that. i don't know why we seem to be producing so many anti social buggers.

in England we have so many villains - our main growth industry seems to be true crime television programmes.

theres no pattern to it. every class seems to be represented as choosing outrageous crime - rape, murder, etc. as a career choice. just watch a true crime channel, and see if i'm wrong.

you'd think with more education, more cultural events, more facilities, much more entertainment...we'd produce nice people.

Subject: RE: Manchester Explosion May 22, 2017
From: akenaton
Date: 23 May 17 - 01:38 PM

It seems this lunatic was a supporter of one of the groups which we assisted, in deposing and murdering Colonel Gaddafi.

An "Arab Springer"

Subject: RE: Manchester Explosion May 22, 2017
From: Ed.
Date: 23 May 17 - 01:30 PM

Entirely with you Big Al, but Bonzo and Jim seem to find the need to stir things up...

Subject: RE: Manchester Explosion May 22, 2017
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 23 May 17 - 01:13 PM

well it was never going to be the Young Methodists behind it.
don't lets argue about it though.

Subject: RE: Manchester Explosion May 22, 2017
From: Ed.
Date: 23 May 17 - 12:48 PM

Yes, Bonzo3legs talks a great deal of right wing crap, however:

"I'm sure I don't need to elaborate on which fucking bastards were behind this."

You can write all the leftie shite you want, Jim Carroll, but he was right, wasn't he?

Yeah - we can bet that he was the wrong colour or from the wrong religion.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40020168

Subject: RE: Manchester Explosion May 22, 2017
From: Senoufou
Date: 23 May 17 - 12:43 PM

It's a bit difficult to 'address the problem' when the perpetrators are not easy to pin down in any one country. This bomber was (according to latest reports) a Libyan. But there have been terrorist attacks by Brits (Lee Rigby for example was hacked to pieces by black British fundamentalists) One never knows when, where or how they will strike. That's the very nature of terrorism.

I'm a bit concerned for my husband to be honest. The very word 'Muslim' dare hardly speak its name. He starts Ramadan next weekend. I so hope people won't treat him unkindly because of this event in Manchester.
The Internet is full of vituperative invective against any and all Muslims.
I have fond memories of Tripoli. The Libyans I met there were delightful. One can't tar everyone with the same brush.

Subject: RE: Manchester Explosion May 22, 2017
From: akenaton
Date: 23 May 17 - 12:16 PM

Security expert on BBVC today, "Expect chemical or biological attack" quite soon.

These people have to be dealt with, no excuses. Soon it will be them or us.
Most important thing is to get world powers talking as a unit against terrorism not using it as a tactic score points or increase personal power.....we also must start to realise that this is not going to go away, soon it will affect our lives negatively.....hand wringing wont cut it, we must start addressing problems head on.

Subject: RE: Manchester Explosion May 22, 2017
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 May 17 - 11:41 AM

The bomber has been named.
He was of Libyan origin.

Subject: RE: Manchester Explosion May 22, 2017
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 23 May 17 - 11:23 AM

I wonder if theres a condition known as arseholitis.

The symptons being the desire to be an arsehole. Like the people who hacked the NHS.

Subject: RE: Manchester Explosion May 22, 2017
From: Jack Campin
Date: 23 May 17 - 10:48 AM

It is unlikely that somebody who commits suicide while mass-murdering teenage girls has any sort of ideology as their primary motivation. We're talking raving nutters here. Psychos usually find some sort of belief system to justify their actions (as Breivik did) but the appropriate intervention isn't counter-propaganda, it's clozapine.

Subject: RE: Manchester Explosion May 22, 2017
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 23 May 17 - 10:14 AM

The bombers aim [ as well as murdering innocent people ] was to get an anti muslim backlash, in an attempt to gain support for isis, when will these morons ever learn ? we won 2 world wars for fucks sake, we will never be beaten by this rabble.

Dave H

Subject: RE: Manchester Explosion May 22, 2017
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 May 17 - 09:42 AM

I don't think the bomb was actually taken into the arena. From what they have said on the news it was detonated in the foyer as people were leaving. I suppose the checks are not as stringent at that time but guess that may now change.

DtG

Subject: RE: Manchester Explosion May 22, 2017
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 23 May 17 - 08:40 AM

apparently security wasn't too good, and emergency evacuation procedures weren't up to scratch.

Still, its a bit of a bugger such things are necessary. i don't think you can blame anyone except the perpetrator.

probably some sad git getting bomb making information off the net.

Subject: RE: Manchester Explosion May 22, 2017
From: Senoufou
Date: 23 May 17 - 08:19 AM

I can't imagine what the bomber hoped to achieve by this act.
Support for Isis? Persuade everyone that we all need Shariah Law? Perhaps not even a Muslim at all.
A personal statement of political disagreement? Was he/she just a loner with a grudge? A nerd who researched online about bomb manufacture and wanted to 'try it out'?
There isn't one single reason I can come up with why anyone sane would do this.
My husband wondered if there had been security checks on bags etc at the venue. I suppose the numbers of people at the concert were just too great to search everyone thoroughly.
I feel such sorrow for all involved. Nowhere is safe now.

Subject: RE: Manchester Explosion May 22, 2017
From: Stu
Date: 23 May 17 - 06:03 AM

Just saw a post from a mate who was there with his daughter and saw the blast. They're OK apart from ringing in the ears.

Manchester comes together at times like this, is a strong and independent city that thrives on it's diversity that has music, culture and northern spirit at it's heart. It's a fantastic place, a great city to live so close to and I love the place.

The city has been bombed before and came back stronger than ever, so get to fuck the person/people who did this.

Subject: RE: Manchester Explosion May 22, 2017
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 May 17 - 05:39 AM

In the last few days I've had occasion to seek help from the Greater Manchester Police (the thing is resolved so I won't go into it). We've been dealt with with the utmost speed and sensitivity and the community officers who helped us had all the time and patience in the world for us. I can't speak highly enough of them.

Subject: RE: Manchester Explosion May 22, 2017
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 23 May 17 - 04:50 AM

Thoughts and prayers are with the families, and all those involved in the trauma of the event.

Good news came out as well, on Radio 4 this morning.
Cabbies giving free transport
Local hotel taking in children & giving them help phoning parents.
Local families taking in strangers as guests overnight.

Well done Manchester!

Subject: RE: Manchester Explosion May 22, 2017
From: Senoufou
Date: 23 May 17 - 04:21 AM

It's come to the point where any mass gathering could be viewed as highly dangerous.
I feel very sorry too for the Emergency Service personnel, dealing with the horrific aftermath.
22 now dead apparently.

Subject: RE: Manchester Explosion May 22, 2017
From: theleveller
Date: 23 May 17 - 04:01 AM

I've just heard that the daughter of a friend was at the concert but, thankfully, she's unharmed.

Subject: RE: Manchester Explosion May 22, 2017
From: Senoufou
Date: 23 May 17 - 03:58 AM

I've just learned about this. 19 dead so far and 59 injured.
I'm so sorry for the families of those killed, my heart goes out to them.
Appalling.

Subject: RE: Manchester Explosion May 22, 2017
From: theleveller
Date: 23 May 17 - 03:24 AM

This is a terrible tragedy that feels especially close to home as my own kids often go to concerts there. It's not helpful at this stage to speculate on who carried out this attack but at this stage police are saying it was a single individual with a makeshift bomb. If this is the case, it's incredibly difficult to guard against: a lone actor who may have got details of bomb-making from the internet. Please let's not have an anti-Islamic backlash - I have Muslim friends who also often go to the Arena and I know they will condemn this insane act as wholeheartedly as the rest of us.

Subject: RE: Manchester Explosion May 22, 2017
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 May 17 - 03:08 AM

A friend was working there as a lighting rigger. He is fine but my heart goes out to those affected. Remember this is not the first time Manchester has suffered a terror attack and the earlier ones had nothing to do with this current spate of terrorists. They are all just criminals. No more no less.

DtG

Subject: RE: Manchester Explosion May 22, 2017
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 23 May 17 - 03:02 AM

Please do Bonzo, because I don't think anyone else knows at present.

Subject: RE: Manchester Explosion May 22, 2017
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 May 17 - 02:55 AM

"I'm sure I don't need to elaborate on which fucking bastards were behind this."
Yeah - we can bet that he was the wrong colour or from the wrong religion.
Why bother to wait for the facts before we throw the rope over the branch
Personally, I have a problem in distinguishing between raving bigots Bozo - they all look the same to me.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Manchester Explosion May 22, 2017
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 23 May 17 - 02:46 AM

Terrible, I'm sure I don't need to elaborate on which fucking bastards were behind this.

Subject: RE: Manchester Explosion May 22, 2017
From: Mrrzy
Date: 22 May 17 - 11:05 PM

Manchester, England, England, so sorry.

Subject: Manchester Explosion May 22, 2017
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 May 17 - 08:51 PM

A family-friendly concert at Manchester Arena in the UK was apparently targeted by a bomb. They're now beginning to say "suicide bomber."

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-security-manchester-idUSKBN18I2OP

http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/22/europe/manchester-arena-incident/

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-manchester-40007886.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/manchester-arena-explosions-live-updates-10478943