BS: The Essence of England

Subject: BS: The Essence of England
From: Senoufou
Date: 31 May 17 - 03:49 PM

I watched a programme yesterday about Grayson Perry, a potter and artist. He was creating two huge pots and painting them with small scenes which epitomise England. He's a fascinating man and cross-dresses, calling himself Claire when in character.
He asked folk all over England to submit photos of things they felt evoked England, and the results were interesting.

As I was cooking dinner this evening, our nearby village church started their bell-ringing practice, so lovely to hear.

If you had to choose just three things which, to you, epitomise your country (not just England) what would they be?
Hard to stick to only three, but mine would be:-

Church bells
Morris dancing
bluebells in a beech wood

Subject: RE: BS: The Essence of England
From: Mr Red
Date: 31 May 17 - 04:26 PM

can't improve on them

Subject: RE: BS: The Essence of England
From: Iains
Date: 31 May 17 - 04:56 PM

Sadly:
Eton
The houses of Parliament
The bullington club

Subject: RE: BS: The Essence of England
From: Will Fly
Date: 31 May 17 - 05:14 PM

I think you mean "Bullingdon"...

Mine would be:

The Royal Oak pub in Wineham, West Sussex
The Striding Edge path on Helvellyn
The iron bridge at Ironbridge

There are many others, but those will do for the present.

Subject: RE: BS: The Essence of England
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 May 17 - 06:56 PM

Pendle. Penyghent. The Rumps. Trough of Bowland. Craven.

Good bitter. Early purple orchids. Brimstones and orange-tips. The bluebells in Brownsham Wood in early May (haven't missed for over 25 years). Gorse in March and April. The Halle Orchestra. Vaughan Williams. Henry Purcell. The Beatles. The warmth of people in the north-west. Settle to Carlisle railway. The A66. High Cup Nick. The Maize Beck. The Kinks singing Waterloo Sunset. Anfield. Sunday roast (chicken or shoulder of lamb). A pasty from Chough bakery in Padstow. My mum's chippy in the fifties. Garfield Sobers, Frank Worrell and Sonny Ramadhin playing for Radcliffe Cricket Club. The Strolling Bones. Richmond Green. Barnes Common. Hereford Cathedral. Tintern Abbey. Richard Hickox, much-lamented. Scilly. Trebah garden. Pentargon waterfall. Spring gentians in upper Teesdale. Wild daffodils in Tidna wood at Morwenstow. A fish finger butty. Morris Minors. The ice cream at Troytown Farm on St Agnes. Langdale Pikes. The old pierhead in Liverpool. My great uncle Jimmy's name on the WWI memorial in Salford Cathedral.

Subject: RE: BS: The Essence of England
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 May 17 - 07:07 PM

Blimey, I forgot I was supposed to stick to three!

Subject: RE: BS: The Essence of England
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 01 Jun 17 - 02:22 AM

England's Glory

Subject: RE: BS: The Essence of England
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 01 Jun 17 - 02:47 AM

love that Rob.

Subject: RE: BS: The Essence of England
From: Senoufou
Date: 01 Jun 17 - 03:59 AM

Since Steve has been Very Disobedient, (and will have to sit on the Naughty Step) I'll add some more to my statutory three examples:-

asparagus, Cromer crabs, kippers, fish-and-chips, rhubarb, bread-and-butter pudding, custard, rice pudding, toad-in-the-hole, summer pudding, Bramley apple pie, pork pie, Old Speckled Hen and Adnam's ales, Aberdeen Angus beef, every cheese made in UK, (all cheeses, but I'm restricted to England) Cornish ice-cream, Cornish cream, Cornish/Devon cream teas, scones, drop scones, steak-and-kidney pie, 'proper' gravy, Yorkshire puddings, Cumberland sausages, stone-ground flour. (That's some food dealt with)

agricultural shows with Shire horses pulling brewers' drays, ploughing competitions with horse-drawn ploughs, riding schools going past, herb gardens, NT stately homes, Hampton Court maze, deck chairs, village bingo, thatched houses, well-dressing, gardening, foxgloves, wild roses in the hedgerows, lawns, herbaceous borders, greenhouses.

(One of the reasons I started this thread is that I've been considering ending my days in my beloved W Africa, near to my bereaved mum-in-law and all my husband's family. It could be done, but I would miss England terribly and don't reckon I could bear it.)

Subject: RE: BS: The Essence of England
From: theleveller
Date: 01 Jun 17 - 04:30 AM

An interesting but almost impossible task, but here goes:
The poetry of Edward Thomas
Eccentrics
Country lanes with unmown verges

Subject: RE: BS: The Essence of England
From: Will Fly
Date: 01 Jun 17 - 04:40 AM

Churchyards with uncut grass.

Subject: RE: BS: The Essence of England
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Jun 17 - 04:47 AM

I'll go along with all that except for the Devon cream teas. Grrr! And I'd specify Wookey Hole cave-aged Cheddar.

I think the weather has a lot to do with it. In spite of the moans it's very benign. You can just throw on your mac and get on with it. If the cloud's down and you'd wanted to climb Penyghent, well there's always tomorrow. We were strolling ground Córdoba last summer with the temperature at 10.30 in the evening still 37 degrees. That's was quite a novelty for us but life simply has to be governed by that (not much goes on for hours in the afternoon!). We've had a few friends who've done stints at the military base in Cyprus who tell us that you can't do anything in the heat and humidity in July and August except stay indoors. My aunt-in-law in Western Australia often hide indoors all day with the blinds down and aircon on to escape the searing heat (and the flies...) it's going to be part-cloud and part-sun today and about 22. Perfect!

Subject: RE: BS: The Essence of England
From: Senoufou
Date: 01 Jun 17 - 05:46 AM

You're right Steve about our weather, and you can come off the Naughty Step now :). My husband says the same thing, that it's benign here. Africa is (of course) fiercely hot and humid. But I like that. I do 'hot' very well indeed. But I just know me, I'd get there and a few months down the line I'd be thinking about all the things listed here and feel terribly homesick.

Additions:-
village fetes, medieval churches (and yes, Will, old churchyards) Maypole dancing, folk-singing and playing, January sales, carol singing, fields of sheep, horses, dairy cows, pigs etc. free-range eggs, hedgerows, Harrods, the Tower of London, cardigans, re-runs of 'The Two Ronnies', regional accents, village pubs, cathedrals and castles, hedge sparrows, barn owls, primroses, jumble sales and car boots, raffles, Helston Furry Dance, Padstow Obby Oss, people smiling at one in the supermarket just being friendly.

If I were fabulously rich, I'd be like Persephone and spend six months each year in Africa and six in Norfolk. ('Cake-and-Eat-it Syndrome')

Subject: RE: BS: The Essence of England
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Jun 17 - 06:06 AM

I can do heat too but not humidity with heat. Apart from anything else it brings out the mozzies. The only slight moan I'd have about the weather is that it doesn't stay warm for long enough in the evenings in summer. There's nothing like la passeggiata in Italy or el paseo in Spain when everyone turns out for an evening stroll through the old towns, dressed in their finery to socialise or just be seen. I love that and we always join in. I've been known to sit outside a bar for hours and watch those lovely young ladies passing by... The hot pants and strappy-tops brigade in Bude on a Friday night, determined to get hammered, doesn't have quite the same cachet.

Ho hum. Back to the naughty step...

Subject: RE: BS: The Essence of England
From: Will Fly
Date: 01 Jun 17 - 07:12 AM

I've spent the last few days popping here and there through my part of West Sussex the countryside, in the car, with the camera, to photograph Public Access Defbrillators (PADs) in various rural locations. We have a local village Response Team - people from the community who have basic training and can act as First Responders on the spot in case of emergencies.

So there are about twenty PADs scattered here and there - in rural church porches, on the outside of cricket pavilions, etc. - and I'm photographing these locations as part of a website location map, so that people can see where they are.

All of which is a long winded way of saying that one of the delights of doing this - particularly at this time of the year - is rolling and strolling through winding, leafy country lanes, dappled with the sun shining through the trees and hedgerows - hazel, oak, beech, hornbeam, chestnut everywhere. It's glorious. One of the PAD locations is on the external side wall of the Royal Oak pub in the hamlet of Wineham. A pub with no music, no modernisation, original wooden floors, beams, no pumps on the bar as the beer is in stollage out at the back.

So I chatted with the landlord after taking a pic of the PAD, and we agreed it would be churlish of me not to have a pint of Harveys after my gruelling experience. So I sat under an umbrella at a table in the garden, admiring the ancient beams and tiled roof of the pub, pint in front of me, with all the world at peace.

Now THAT, for me, is England.

Subject: RE: BS: The Essence of England
From: Stu
Date: 01 Jun 17 - 07:52 AM

The land.

Subject: RE: BS: The Essence of England
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 01 Jun 17 - 08:38 AM

Morris dancing
The Shadows
The Conservative Party

Subject: RE: BS: The Essence of England
From: Senoufou
Date: 01 Jun 17 - 09:42 AM

I think Mr & Mrs Smack may have to pay a visit to Bottyland Steve.

We've just got home from a lovely little outing to Sheringham. I think I'll have to add 'old-fashioned English seaside towns' to my list. And lifeboats.
Not to mention nice cups of tea with a slice of Victoria sponge cake...

Will, our village is starting a procedure to have a PAD outside the pub. (No connection I hope - their beer isn't that bad!) Leafy country lanes are definitely going on the list.

I only have to hear a few notes of Ralph Vaughan Williams 'Fantasia On Greensleeves' and I'm blubbing like a fool. And that's when I'm still here in England!

Hares, cockchafers, ladybirds, dragonflies, goldfinches....

Subject: RE: BS: The Essence of England
From: DMcG
Date: 01 Jun 17 - 01:07 PM

I will go to the other extreme and select just one: the view from the top of Whitby steps.

You have the history of the history of the Abbey, from its foundation, its Synod, destruction and a kind of rebirth under tjw various heritage groups, the links to whaling, world exploration with Captain Cook, views over the harbour and its fishing indistries. Then the literary links with Bram Stoker and it is easy to see how he imagined the doomed ship arriving ... To that I have childhood memories of glass blown ducks and joke shops. And counting those never-ending steps... And, while it might be happening when you are standing there, the memories of the festivals are there.

Yes, a lot of the essence of England at that spot.

Subject: RE: BS: The Essence of England
From: Mr Red
Date: 02 Jun 17 - 04:20 AM

Well call me a party pooper but quite a lot of the "essences" above can be found elswhere. And maybe done better like Football/Soccer.

But change ringing is not, by and large, AFAIK
Morris is done elsewhere but recognised as quintessentially English.
Bluebells ? Spanish invaders abound sadly. Also found in other parts of the UK.

When I lived in NZ and did a Folk programme on Radio Access, church bells featured regularly. They were one of the things drawing me back to the UK.

Subject: RE: BS: The Essence of England
From: Senoufou
Date: 02 Jun 17 - 06:19 AM

I expect some of them can also be found elsewhere Mr Red. I'm not saying we have the monopoly on Good Things. But I don't believe one can find all of them together in any one place.

We have a milkman here in our village who delivers daily. And a fish man on Thursdays. And a mobile library that arrives every other Wednesday. And the village magazine comes through the door on the first of the month. And a village shop. I like all that too.

I like those little old red post boxes set into a wall, with VR on them.
There are lots and lots of wonderful things to be found in Ivory Coast, and I love it there. But I think I'd be pining...

Subject: RE: BS: The Essence of England
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Jun 17 - 08:15 AM

"I think Mr & Mrs Smack may have to pay a visit to Bottyland Steve."

Hmmm. Must be naughty more often then! 😈

Subject: RE: BS: The Essence of England
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 02 Jun 17 - 09:44 AM

kangaroos lolloping across the outback, herds of wildebeets being stalked by David Attenborough at a watering hole, the thrill of an opening night on Broadway....that heartening round of applause from the crowd when they lethally inject some poor sod in Huntsville Jail....all overshadowed by the day Thatcher left Downing Street!

Subject: RE: BS: The Essence of England
From: Will Fly
Date: 02 Jun 17 - 01:31 PM

Were the wildebeets born and bred in Lincolnshire? I had some in a salad the other evening and they were delicious.

Subject: RE: BS: The Essence of England
From: Senoufou
Date: 02 Jun 17 - 02:45 PM

A child in my class years ago thought the word was pronounced 'wildie-beestie'. I can never see it written without thinking of her. (She must be in her forties by now)

Subject: RE: BS: The Essence of England
From: keberoxu
Date: 02 Jun 17 - 03:09 PM

Beets?

BEETS?

Subject: RE: BS: The Essence of England
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 02 Jun 17 - 03:19 PM

A stiff upper lip! The Union Jack. Government chaos!.

Subject: RE: BS: The Essence of England
From: Senoufou
Date: 02 Jun 17 - 03:57 PM

Beetroot, keberoxu. I'm not sure if they're eaten in other countries.
It's a root, boiled then sliced, used in salads. Bright purple in colour.

Just to confuse things, here in Norfolk a lot of sugar beet is grown. It's hauled off by the ton to the sugar beet factories, boiled and crushed then crystallised to produce much of our sugar.

I've thought of some more:-

Dunkirk spirit, British sense of humour, Pantomimes, Punch and Judy, growing leeks and other giant vegetables for gardening competitions, garden sheds, allotments, Book of Common Prayer, windbreaks on beaches, sand castles, country dancing, 'In The Night Garden' (children's TV programme).

Subject: RE: BS: The Essence of England
From: Jack Campin
Date: 02 Jun 17 - 04:56 PM

I was in England as a child, 0-5 in south-east London (which I hardly remember) and 5-8 between Oxford and Abingdon, which I remembered reasonably well after we went to New Zealand. My stereotypes were similar to some of those expressed here: countryside, the Thames, traction engines etc.

Then I came back to it in 1976, realized after about 3 months that anywhere I could afford to get to had to be a saner option, and have not been for a moment tempted to move back.

Revised "essence of England" after having to live in it at the bottom of the heap: smug selfishness, toadying pig-ignorant servility, public filth, brutal arrogance of power from anyone with any uniform or even the most trivial official status, working class turkeys clamouring for an early Christmas and reading the Express to find the ideal recipe for the stuffing to be shoved up their bums.

Subject: RE: BS: The Essence of England
From: Senoufou
Date: 02 Jun 17 - 05:07 PM

So, not too keen on England then Jack?

Subject: RE: BS: The Essence of England
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 02 Jun 17 - 05:55 PM

We're all C of E and victory V !!

Subject: RE: BS: The Essence of England
From: Mr Red
Date: 03 Jun 17 - 04:44 AM

Troach

not the same since the EC banned paregoric.

Subject: RE: BS: The Essence of England
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 03 Jun 17 - 05:12 AM

The "Flying Scotsman" still steaming - first steam loco to officially do 100mph - going to see it early this afternoon near East Croydon!!

Subject: RE: BS: The Essence of England
From: Senoufou
Date: 03 Jun 17 - 10:10 AM

Will, I've just been looking at some photos of the inside of the Royal Oak at Wineham. It's gorgeous isn't it? It reminds me very much of the Earle Arms at Heydon (village quite near us) Sadly, they've started to get a bit 'foodie', and have put more and more dining tables around the place. It's more like a restaurant now than a pub. Years ago, it was frequented by 'men of the land', and the beer was out of barrels on a trestle with a spigot (no pump) The huge log fire was lit, and the decor was unchanged from over a hundred years ago. Old 'kitchen chairs' painted Georgian green. Broad Norfolk accents and singing the old songs. Wonderful.

Same thing has happened to the 'Ratcatchers' and the 'Saracen's Head'. I suppose it's the only way they can make a profit nowadays. I used to follow Kemp's Men (Norwich Morris side) around during the summer and got to know many olde worlde pubs.

Doing that, one got the countryside, Morris dancing, folk singing, lovely old pub and Adnam's ale. I used to think 'heaven must be like this!'

Subject: RE: BS: The Essence of England
From: Mr Red
Date: 03 Jun 17 - 11:05 AM

Ah - the power of publicity. the power of the myth, the power of a name.
The fastest steam loco will remain AFAIK the Mallard 120 since you ask.
And the first train to reach 102.3 mph (in 1904!) acknowledged but not authenticated was the City of Truro. the timing was not authenticated by a second person, but the timer was a journalist so it must be true!

Subject: RE: BS: The Essence of England
From: Raggytash
Date: 03 Jun 17 - 11:11 AM

DmcG, any view from any of the roads approaching Whitby afford exactly what you describe. I love every one of them, at all times of year. It is a truly magically place .................

except for the obnoxious drunken tourists who crowd the pubs with foul language and abusive behaviour.

Going back to the list has anyone mentioned Roses ......... especially Red Roses.

Quintessentially English.

Subject: RE: BS: The Essence of England
From: Will Fly
Date: 03 Jun 17 - 11:24 AM

The Royal Oak's a good old pub, Eliza. I have to say that, in the great fox-hunting debate some years ago, it was the local HQ of the hunt supporters. But that's what you get in rural areas, so you either put up with it or don't go there! It was also the location of a folk club until quite recently, when the organiser got tired of organising it.

I like it mid-week for a nice, quiet pint.

Subject: RE: BS: The Essence of England
From: Senoufou
Date: 03 Jun 17 - 01:35 PM

One of the (many) benefits of being retired is the freedom to go to places midweek when it's quieter.

I'm a grumpy old biddy, and get all white and spiteful when a pub has those ghastly slot machines and one-armed bandits that make silly tinkly-tonk noises. I hate loud taped music and poncy food menus ('lightly-seasoned home-cured tortoise on a bed of tossed Japanese knotweed, with a side accompaniment of turds-in-brandy')

I well remember in the early fifties going up to Kings Cross to get the steam train to Durham (LNER?) Every platform had massive hissing engines and they seemed enormous to me. The noise when they started off was tremendous, and smuts came flying in the windows in a tunnel. Would it have been the Flying Scotsman, (or something equally famous) or just an ordinary workhorse engine?

Subject: RE: BS: The Essence of England
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Jun 17 - 01:42 PM

Having an Italian coffee with my English bacon butty
Washing a lamb biryani down with a couple of pints of Black Sheep
Listening to ska in the local park while watching bowls

Is there anywhere more cosmopolitan?

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: The Essence of England
From: Senoufou
Date: 03 Jun 17 - 02:08 PM

I also like the inherent kindness and politeness here. My husband gets smiled at wherever he goes. Just today in Tesco an old geezer grabbed his hand and shook it for no reason! (Well, he was wearing a Norwich City football top, but still...) I find complete strangers smile at me all the time, it's lovely.

I'm afraid in Africa, folk are much more self-contained and wouldn't smile at a person they didn't know. They give you one of those looks if you smile, as if you're completely bonkers. I've even had ladies suck their teeth at me.

You're right Dave, we are cosmopolitan. We have Chinese, Indian and Thai takeaways within 15 minutes drive from our village. And my husband can obtain all the weird and wonderful spices he needs for his cooking in Norwich.

Subject: RE: BS: The Essence of England
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 03 Jun 17 - 03:55 PM

English Flying Scotsman!

Subject: RE: BS: The Essence of England
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 03 Jun 17 - 03:57 PM

Ah yes - Carry on Films!

Subject: RE: BS: The Essence of England
From: Senoufou
Date: 03 Jun 17 - 05:28 PM

And Monty Python, 'Life Of Brian' (especially that song, 'Always Look On The Bright Side Of Life')
The Two Ronnies, Some Mothers Do 'Ave 'Em, Gardeners' World, Royal weddings, the shipping forecast, the Archers.

Subject: RE: BS: The Essence of England
From: Stu
Date: 04 Jun 17 - 06:38 AM

Hylaeosaurus armatus

The Battersea Shield. Sutton Hoo. The Lindisfarne Gospels.

Wat Tyler, The Diggers, Turing, The Chartists, The Tolpuddle Martyrs, Emmeline Pankhurst and the Suffragets, The Luddites and the Swing Rioters, William Wilberforce, Freeborn John, The Putney Debates, Darwin and Wallace, Caxton etc etc

Subject: RE: BS: The Essence of England
From: robomatic
Date: 04 Jun 17 - 07:29 PM

Three items are not enough to give a sense of Engand: But trying to mention things that inspire a multi-contextual parade of images:



The Canterbury Tales, Illustrated
The Tower of London
A Man-o-War

Subject: RE: BS: The Essence of England
From: Mr Red
Date: 05 Jun 17 - 08:50 AM

The Westminster Clock aka Big Ben
the Elizabeth Tower aka Big Ben aka Clock Tower (pre 2012)
Big Ben (complete with crack)

Subject: RE: BS: The Essence of England
From: Stu
Date: 05 Jun 17 - 09:09 AM

I see Westminster, the Queen, beefeaters and all that sort of thing as British, not English.

Subject: RE: BS: The Essence of England
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Jun 17 - 09:44 AM

its a pity MacDonalds don't do a MacEnglish burger...

Subject: RE: BS: The Essence of England
From: Stu
Date: 05 Jun 17 - 09:55 AM

Don't need them Al. Our farm shop does triffic burgers.

Subject: RE: BS: The Essence of England
From: Senoufou
Date: 05 Jun 17 - 11:33 AM

Well Stu, Alfred Russel Wallace was born in Llanbadoc, which really makes him Welsh.

And Westminster, the Queen and the Beefeaters were situated/based in England the last time I looked.

However, since we're adding people to the list, I nominate Florence Nightingale, Charles Dickens and William Shakespeare.

And Lancashire hotpot, home-made jam & chutney (my old auntie was a cracker at making those) knitting, cricket matches on the village green, Guy Fawkes Night, The Sheringham Shantymen.

It's not that I'm joining the BNP or waving me flag of St George particularly, just trying to think of all the things I'd miss dreadfully if I decamped to Ivory Coast for the remainder of my days.