Mudcat Life Expectancy

Subject: Mudcat Life Expectancy
From: GUEST,Granny Smith
Date: 12 Jun 17 - 07:00 AM

Since most of us folks are old as balls, I'll reckon this website has five years before its desolate and silent.

Food for thought.

Wrinkles suck

Subject: RE: Mudcat Life Expectancy
From: Brian Peters
Date: 12 Jun 17 - 07:56 AM

I still use it regularly, though don't contribute as much as I used to. Of course there are other ways of sharing information these days, but there is still research-oriented stuff here you wouldn't find anywhere else. Nonetheless I really hope the archive survives, since there are so many excellent contributions, including a lot from knowledgable people who are no longer around to consult.

Subject: RE: Mudcat Life Expectancy
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Jun 17 - 08:25 AM

I don't think it will last five years.

Subject: RE: Mudcat Life Expectancy
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Jun 17 - 09:06 AM

interesting...

Mudcat was in many ways like the folk movement - an artistic movement that was more than the sum of all its parts.

i can remember my dismay years ago reading a review of Harvey Andrews latest album. the reviewer said, this is the review i wish i would never have to write. his point was that the album didn't contain an obvious hit record or hit song. and thus in his view Harvey was probably condemned to cultural insignificance

With a traditional artist like yourself, Brian the cultural importance is taken to be the depth of vision (i hope).

up to reading that review - i'd always thought there was a sort of brotherhood of folk artists. i was dismayed to find out that poor Harvey was expected to slug it out for significance, with the Bay City Rollers.

somewhere along the line we stopped believing in ourselves, our own significance. And of the four of us - one feels that THe Bay City Rollers got the best of it. And maybe that's the new folk music.

Subject: RE: Mudcat Life Expectancy
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Jun 17 - 09:19 AM

... but don't forget the rejuvenating new wave of youth...

.. sprightly vibrant virile members like me who are only in our late 50s, and can still remember what day it is and our own names

... and acknowledge that electricity and guitar amps do exist and are nothing to be afraid of.... 🙄

Subject: RE: Mudcat Life Expectancy
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Jun 17 - 09:22 AM

blimey... i'm so young and over excited I can't control my italics...

Subject: RE: Mudcat Life Expectancy
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 12 Jun 17 - 09:23 AM

Before the Great Crash there were DoB and photo files. Someone used to do analyses of our average age and it was always high, and yes, many of us are dropping off the twig or sinking into senlity, but at least Max is still young!
RtS

Subject: RE: Mudcat Life Expectancy
From: Rapparee
Date: 12 Jun 17 - 10:08 AM

Negativity and trolls have killed more websites than aging.

Subject: RE: Mudcat Life Expectancy
From: GUEST,pauperback
Date: 12 Jun 17 - 10:28 AM

There is all ways face boot. Embrace the suck

Subject: RE: Mudcat Life Expectancy
From: DebC
Date: 12 Jun 17 - 11:48 AM

I agree with my good friend, Brian above. I am constantly finding MC links when doing research. Some of them are bittersweet because so many posts are from 'Catters who have left us.

Thanks, so much Max 'n Mods. This place may be a bit quieter but it's still valuable.

Deb Cowan

Subject: RE: Mudcat Life Expectancy
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 12 Jun 17 - 03:04 PM

What Brian and Deb said. <3

Subject: RE: Mudcat Life Expectancy
From: Helen
Date: 12 Jun 17 - 04:06 PM

Yes, well done punkfolkrocker! Even the emoji is on a lean.

I celebrated my 20th year of Mudcatterhood last month. While I am older than punkfolkrocker and many other Mudcatters, I am also younger than some others here.

I agree with Rapparee, "Negativity and trolls have killed more websites than aging" and I suspect that the green apple granny who started this thread was attempting just that. My advice to you is, when life gives you green apples, make apple pie.

A lot of people pop in here through web searches for specific information, and some of the newbies stick around so when the search engines stop being so clever, we may just possibly stop getting new people dropping in.

And then, of course, there are all the kind, helpful, clever Mudcatters who inhabit this space and who are always willing to supply the answers or build the database of information and songs. They are even kind enough to ignore the trolls or detour around their verbal detritus to stick to the topic being discussed. It takes more courage to be kind than to give in to troll-like traits. I've seen that courage here, over and over again.

Thanks to Max and the Mudelfs for keeping the 'Cat going. I'm looking forward to another wonderful 20 years here.

Helen

Subject: RE: Mudcat Life Expectancy
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Jun 17 - 08:39 PM

I'm here less often that I used to, but I'd be lost without it. I trust and hope it'll be here to see me out, and I hope that will be a good few years yet.

When I opened this thread I thought it might be about the life expectancy of Mudcatters.

Subject: RE: Mudcat Life Expectancy
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Jun 17 - 09:49 PM

It's not trolls, etc. There was an open letter to trolls here fifteen years ago. Trolls were ever thus and they don't tend to infest this website like some I've seen, nothing like. Apart from this one I'm a member of three music-based websites. One's dead and it never had a single troll, ever. One's critically ill and is virtually troll-free by virtue of good moderating that's generated a civil ethos, but it's dying anyway. One's been wallowing in the doldrums for several years in a long, slow decline. This one has a lot more going for it. Generally, people socialise differently on the web these days. But we're still here and I'll give it at least ten more years!

Subject: RE: Mudcat Life Expectancy
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Jun 17 - 10:42 PM

Arsebook is killing off traditional well organised and easily researchable forums like this..

The same is happening with the Shergold Guitars forum... 😞

Subject: RE: Mudcat Life Expectancy
From: Joe Offer
Date: 13 Jun 17 - 01:29 AM

It's really hard to find old information on Facebook, so I hope Mudcatters don't use the Mudcat Facebook page to exchange music information that may be of value in the future.

I've heard all sorts of complaints about the way Mudcat works compared to other forums, and I agree that some aspects of Mudcat make current discussion more difficult.

But Mudcat has one thing that few other forums have - if you know how to work our various search engines, you can find any message posted here since Mudcat began in October 1996 - a lot of memorable messages from a lot of memorable people. Here at Mudcat, we've spent 20 years jointly researching some songs. Can that be done anywhere else?

We are a treasure trove of folk music information. That's why the Library of Congress is setting up an archive of what's been posted here at Mudcat.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Mudcat Life Expectancy
From: Brian Peters
Date: 13 Jun 17 - 07:20 AM

Good for the LOC, Joe!

Subject: RE: Mudcat Life Expectancy
From: Brian Peters
Date: 13 Jun 17 - 07:21 AM

"... and acknowledge that electricity and guitar amps do exist and are nothing to be afraid of...."

Happy to acknowledge that, PFR!

Subject: RE: Mudcat Life Expectancy
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Jun 17 - 07:51 AM

they scare me..

Subject: RE: Mudcat Life Expectancy
From: Brian Peters
Date: 13 Jun 17 - 09:08 AM

Even some of my old rock band mates feel the need for ear defenders these days, Al...

Subject: RE: Mudcat Life Expectancy
From: Jeri
Date: 13 Jun 17 - 09:45 AM

I went to a friend's band's metal show. The venue had a big old bowl of earplugs at the door. People generally bring their own. You can actually hear it better, but for many bands, that's probably the reason for the volume.

You remember back last century when people said Mudcat was old and didn't have all the bells and whistles of newer forums? Wait, that wasn't "people", that was Clinton Hammond. I imagine that ironically, he's still here complaining that Mudcat is doomed. I love irony, imagined or otherwise.

I imagine the BS section will fade when the obsessive old farts depart for whatever reason, and discussions are taken up by less wackadoo people. The music discussion is mostly people re-asking questions because they don't know how to search (not being snotty - they probably don't know). And every now and then, somebody will ask a question that inspires us to research and learn.

Subject: RE: Mudcat Life Expectancy
From: Joe Offer
Date: 13 Jun 17 - 11:42 AM

Well said, Jeri. Current challenge is finding the original "Stoutest Man in the Forty-Twa."

Subject: RE: Mudcat Life Expectancy
From: keberoxu
Date: 13 Jun 17 - 01:54 PM

The Mudcat Cafe is remarkably accessible to someone like me whose formal education, through to the post-graduate level, was B.C. -- Before Computers. And for this I give thanks every time I visit.

The life expectancy of Mudcat, it seems to me, is the same as the life expectancy of access to virtual information through computers. Lose the computers, lose Mudcat. Hope we never do.

Subject: RE: Mudcat Life Expectancy
From: Joe_F
Date: 13 Jun 17 - 06:12 PM

As long as it lasts as long as I do.

Subject: RE: Mudcat Life Expectancy
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Jun 17 - 10:50 AM

"I imagine the BS section will fade when the obsessive old farts depart for whatever reason, and discussions are taken up by less wackadoo people."
Well said indeed Jeri - just the ageist abuse we need from an adjudicator!!
I thoroughly enjoy Mudcat - top and bottom because I enjoy traditional music and am interested i life in general, including politics and history.
The fact that I become over-passionate about both aspects of these discussions is a measure of the depth om my interest.
I'm happy to deal with other people's passions as long as they are happy to deal with mine, so I can put up with Jeri's insultingly dismissive behavior and her fanzine approach to Bob Dylan, I'm sure she might excuse me when I go over the top on things I care about.
Give and take makes the world go around
Shame on you Joe
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Mudcat Life Expectancy
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Jun 17 - 01:54 PM

Sometimes young people don't realize they are just old farts in waiting.

I gather that Facebook is seen as old fart territory by many younger people.

I hope that the assumption that the Mudcat and any similar sites (if there are any - I've visited numerous discussion forums, and I've never come across any that work as well as the Cat) will turn out to be as accurate as all that stuff a few years ago about how ebooks would mean the marginalisation and even the death of real books.

Subject: RE: Mudcat Life Expectancy
From: Jeri
Date: 14 Jun 17 - 05:32 PM

"Old fart" is about attitude, not about age. I probably qualify. The really telling things is THAT is what you focused on, and not the "obsessive" label. That one's pretty obviously spot on.

"I'm sure she might excuse me when I go over the top on things I care about."
Nope.
That's all you do, all the time, with no regard to how it affects the forum as a whole. In my opinion, you don't care about "the greater good" and just want to fight.

I've seen at least three times where you called Mudcat "a debate forum". It's not, but it's what you WANT it to be. It's impossible to discuss anything in BS and not have people choose sides and go after each other.

Like I've said before, when enough people piss in the pool, the only people in the pool will eventually be those who enjoy swimming in piss.

Since I do NOT enjoy fighting with people, I'm out of this thread.

Subject: RE: Mudcat Life Expectancy
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Jun 17 - 05:46 PM

You are too negative all the time, Jeri. There is no fight in you. You seem to have a death wish for this volatile, lively and animated board. You simply can't see any of its good points. Why don't you just jack it all in, bugger off and enjoy a quiet life?

Subject: RE: Mudcat Life Expectancy
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Jun 17 - 05:51 PM

Trump is an old fart, is he a member?

Subject: RE: Mudcat Life Expectancy
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Jun 17 - 05:51 PM

or perhaps hejhas been dismembered

Subject: RE: Mudcat Life Expectancy
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Jun 17 - 06:01 PM

I've been away for quite a while (mostly) but about a bit for the last couple of weeks. I plan on surviving and being grumpy (and left wing) for maybe another 20 years or more and I might be around here.

Subject: RE: Mudcat Life Expectancy
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Jun 17 - 07:16 PM

Nice balanced posting showing a willingess to debate and compromise from one of our forum fairies
Doesn't auger well for the subject of this thread - the future of this forum
Maybe if I'd agreed to like Bob Dylan......!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Mudcat Life Expectancy
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Jun 17 - 08:45 PM

Clueless as ever.

Subject: RE: Mudcat Life Expectancy
From: gnu
Date: 14 Jun 17 - 09:31 PM

Acme... "Clueless as ever." Yes, and the clueless posters don't even seem to... have a clue about it.

Best line so far? Jeri... "Like I've said before, when enough people piss in the pool, the only people in the pool will eventually be those who enjoy swimming in piss."

Subject: RE: Mudcat Life Expectancy
From: akenaton
Date: 15 Jun 17 - 02:43 AM

If you don't want to swim in piss, don't visit any of the threads designed to abuse your democratically elected President.
I notice many weel kent faces in these urinals.

Subject: RE: Mudcat Life Expectancy
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Jun 17 - 03:39 AM

" don't visit any of the threads designed to abuse your democratically elected President."
One of the joys of posting to Mudcat has been the lack of censorship, you can express your views freely
The idea that it should be santitised to protect the worst world leader the world has ever seen is beyond belief and it is beyond comprehension that anybody should suggest it.
The poster must have been tweeted from someone or other
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Mudcat Life Expectancy
From: Mr Red
Date: 15 Jun 17 - 04:29 AM

Well I intend to be here for a long time and according to Farcebook "Mist Er-Red" is only 37.


I notice many weel kent faces in these urinals. -
those damn mirrors!

Subject: RE: Mudcat Life Expectancy
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jun 17 - 06:21 AM

Stayed in an hotel in Italy recently in which our bathroom had a virtually full-length mirror extending behind the toilet. I'm not out of love with myself but I have no desire to see one of my bodily functions in full flow thank you very much!

Subject: RE: Mudcat Life Expectancy
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Jun 17 - 09:04 AM

'water sports' are quite popular on the continent...
It seems many Europeans, particularly Germans, do indeed enjoy swimming in piss....

Back in the 1980s one of my shared house mates used to show us the videos [ he bought off a dodgy contact on London building sites]
whether or not any of us wanted to watch them...

He was a very good singer - sounded a bit like Rod Stewart - dunno what he gargled for his voice, it was something mixed with honey....???

Lost touch with him when I moved back home to the west country,
so wouldn't know how that fetish interest might have influenced his brexit vote.....??? 🙄

Subject: RE: Mudcat Life Expectancy
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Jun 17 - 09:23 AM

All fetish interests come down to one thing, PP
Paranoid Politics.

It has lurked for millennia. It returned powerfully in 1935.
In America the 104th Congress under Newt Gingrich began a new hate divide. He is still doing it.

Like a horror movie there is an element of excitement and suspense.
The monster is partly us and we hate that. Caution: Swimming in hate may cause incurable infection.

Folk music is a vaccine and medicine against social and political infection. The disease we fight is not going away soon. That is why BS will live on in some form.

Subject: RE: Mudcat Life Expectancy
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Jun 17 - 11:49 AM

is Donald Trump the worst world leader the world has ever seen?
that would be something for him to aspire to.

Subject: RE: Mudcat Life Expectancy
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Jun 17 - 12:03 PM

"is Donald Trump the worst world leader the world has ever seen?"
He's the only out-and-out nutter I can recall with a finger on the nuclear button
That puts him in line for some prize or another
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Mudcat Life Expectancy
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Jun 17 - 12:15 PM

If Trump actually declared "I wanna press the button, and I'm gonna do it right now !!!"
is there actually no one in the entire USA who can say "Oh no you're not.. don't be so stupid, behave yourself..." ...???

Subject: RE: Mudcat Life Expectancy
From: Ebbie
Date: 15 Jun 17 - 12:51 PM

"I wanna press the button..." That image has a number of us alarmed, pfR. Given the yaysayers around him, there appears good reason for alarm. In fact, the last few days when I imagine the president feeling the noose inexorably tighten around his throat, the thought occurs to many of us that he might find the 'need' to distract us.

As for our "democratically elected president, ake, we "democratically" elected Hillary Clinton with just about three million more votes than Trump could boast.

Subject: RE: Mudcat Life Expectancy
From: akenaton
Date: 15 Jun 17 - 03:10 PM

Well you are extremely lucky that the political system did not recognise your carefully manicured point Ebbie.

The Electoral College is regarded in most countries as an aid to democracy. Most political Parties operate an Electoral College system.

Subject: RE: Mudcat Life Expectancy
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Jun 17 - 03:13 PM

"Well you are extremely lucky that the political system did not recognise your carefully manicured point Ebbie."
Then how can his election be Democratic if teh majority didn't vote for him
So much for your attempts to censor criticism of him
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Mudcat Life Expectancy
From: Pete from seven stars link
Date: 15 Jun 17 - 03:36 PM

It's how the system works isn't it . Even if she did genuinely get more votes which I've no reason to doubt , trump won according to the way it's done . I am quite sure that if the situation were reversed you would not be complaining

Subject: RE: Mudcat Life Expectancy
From: Mr Red
Date: 15 Jun 17 - 04:24 PM

Folk music is a vaccine and medicine against social and political infection.

Hmmmm. Not been to a Billy Bragg concert recently then!

Subject: RE: Mudcat Life Expectancy
From: akenaton
Date: 15 Jun 17 - 04:31 PM

Exactly Pete, before the election the Electoral College was supposed to be Clinton's "Trump Card"

Subject: RE: Mudcat Life Expectancy
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jun 17 - 05:01 PM

Yes, well, Pete, "the way it is done" isn't exactly fair, is it. Take Florida. Twenty-nine electoral college votes. The Trump side won the state by the merest whisker.

Fair outcome, wot didn't happen:

Trump side fifteen, Clinton side fourteen.

Actual outcome, outrageously unfair:

Trump side twenty-nine, Clinton side nil.

There are times when it is blatantly obvious that "the way it is done" is simply not the right way.