cigs and e-ecigs in the folk scene

Subject: cigs and e-ecigs in the folk scene
From: Jack Campin
Date: 17 Jul 17 - 03:32 AM

Consider the picture of Martin Boland in this article:

http://www.scotsman.com/news/obituaries/obituary-martin-boland-singer-who-was-heart-and-soul-of-edinburgh-s-folk-scene-1-4503044

He died about a week ago. He was quite a bit younger than he looks in that picture. Not exactly a picture of health.

And not many people thee days would want to be photographed hanging on to cigarette like that. There is another photo on Facebook which shoes him sucking furiously on an e-cig. Except when actually singing, it would probably have been hard to find a moment when Martin didn't have one or other in his mouth.

There are a good few other folkies in the queue. I get the impression that while overall tobacco consumption has gone down since e-cigs took over, the remaining smokers, in the folk scene at least, are trying to make up for the ones who've given up. They are much less at risk for lung cancer, but if anything the risks of heart and circulatory disease are greater.

There are also less heavy drinkers in the folk scene than there used to be, and very few people whose illegal drug use is out of control. E-cigs have taken over as the main drug of abuse. And they really are killing people.

Is this a peculiarly Scottish style of self-destruction or do people elsewhere see the same?

Subject: RE: cigs and e-ecigs in the folk scene
From: Joe Offer
Date: 17 Jul 17 - 03:42 AM

I've spent a fair amount of time in close quarters with a U.S. folkie who vapes- constantly. He claims it will do me no harm, but I'm not so sure.
Mind you, I smoked for 25 years and still like a cigarette once a year or so. I do think musicians tend to smoke more than some - It's the Bohemian thing, I think.

Subject: RE: cigs and e-ecigs in the folk scene
From: Jack Campin
Date: 17 Jul 17 - 07:11 AM

For me, e-cig fumes are worse than second-hand tobacco smoke. My eyes and throat burn for a couple of days after sitting next to somebody doing it.

Subject: RE: cigs and e-ecigs in the folk scene
From: Felipa
Date: 17 Jul 17 - 07:17 AM

Yes, both types of ciggies are anathema to me.
And while I appreciate that e-cigs can help wean people off tobacco; when the co-ordinator of our single circle puffs his electronic ciggie in the pub I think it's a retrograde step. For several years, since smoking indoors in places of employment (including pubs) was banned in N Ireland he was going for much longer without a smoke. Now he can use his e-puffer indoors so he has it in his mouth much of the night.

Subject: RE: cigs and e-ecigs in the folk scene
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 17 Jul 17 - 08:29 AM

I'm a smoker (not good, I know). In terms of the players I can think of off hand in this area, I'm struggling to come up with a "vaper". Some managed to give up before the ban (reasons include heart problems and pregnancy) and there is the odd one like me who goes outside to roll, say some golden virgina.

Subject: RE: cigs and e-ecigs in the folk scene
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 17 Jul 17 - 09:18 AM

Only one of our group still smokes and he rolls his own. He slopes off to have one occasionally outdoors but this does not and should not affect the rest of us. I have not noticed anyone at our gigs indoor and outdoor causing any problem and we live in the current City of (unhealthy) Culture, the fat capital of the world.

Subject: RE: cigs and e-ecigs in the folk scene
From: Leadfingers
Date: 17 Jul 17 - 11:05 AM

Are E Cigs allowed in Pubs ?

Subject: RE: cigs and e-ecigs in the folk scene
From: Will Fly
Date: 17 Jul 17 - 11:10 AM

E-cigs are indeed allowed in pubs. My opinion is they're just as much a nuisance as cigs - just a personal view. I avoid the vapours (and vapers) as much as possible.

Of course, being a convert to non-smoking (I smoked my last cigarette in 1969), I'm a zealot!

Subject: RE: cigs and e-ecigs in the folk scene
From: Jack Campin
Date: 17 Jul 17 - 01:00 PM

In Scotland pubs can ban vaping if they want. Among the Edinburgh-area pubs I go to, it's banned in Sandy Bells, the Antiquary, the Gait and the Dean in Newtongrange; allowed in the Captains Bar; and the Goth in Prestonpans seems to allow only the less fumy ones.

Bummer because the Captains is my favourite, but I can't face an evening being teargassed.

Subject: RE: cigs and e-ecigs in the folk scene
From: GUEST,Lin
Date: 17 Jul 17 - 08:00 PM

Is smoking banned in most pubs in Ireland? Here in USA smoking laws are very strict and smoking not allowed in public places, restaurants, bars, etc. I AM GLAD OF THAT!!

All the folk music house concerts I have been to do not allow any smoking at all either (of course that is up to the owner of the home.)
Some home owners do not want you smoking just outside their home either and you would have to go out to the sidewalk (away from the homeowners actual property to smoke) because if people stand just outside the front door it can still drift inside - so that is the reason they want people to walk some distance from the house itself.

Some transit hubs (where multiple bus routes) come into one area usually ban smoking too even though it is outside. You cannot smoke unless you are out of the transit hub area altogether and away from where a lot of people are standing waiting for different bus routes.

Subject: RE: cigs and e-ecigs in the folk scene
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 17 Jul 17 - 10:27 PM

E-cigarettes pose health policy conundrum as Australia faces vaping push

For years smoking has been banned in most public areas, including hotels, restaurants, clubs & community centres, the main locations of folk clubs & concerts. Smokers are also discouraged from congregating near these venues.

A couple of years ago our club had to move into the Community Centre's other hall when our hall was double booked due to the booking manager not posting the regular bookings.

We learnt a few days later that the group that took our hall lost their deposit (around $600, twice the fee for use of the hall) & were also fined $700 when one of their members lit up in the grounds underneath the smoke alarm which is linked to the local Fire Brigade. Fire brigades charge for non-emergency call outs so it was a very expensive party that would have been cheaper if they had obeyed lease conditions.

sandra

Subject: RE: cigs and e-ecigs in the folk scene
From: Joe Offer
Date: 18 Jul 17 - 12:53 AM

I have to say that this thread is giving me a craving for cigarettes, scotch, and good music....

Subject: RE: cigs and e-ecigs in the folk scene
From: Will Fly
Date: 18 Jul 17 - 05:45 AM

Joe - I've got the scotch and the good music - just can't help you with the cigarettes.

It's such a temptation on a thread like this to use the (UK) English word "fag" for cigarette. "Fag" has that raspy, chesty, smoky, rather sleazy feel to it - much more evocative than plain "cigarette".

But not in the US!

Subject: RE: cigs and e-ecigs in the folk scene
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Jul 17 - 05:58 AM

Especially if you go outside to roll a fag, Will.

:D tG

Subject: RE: cigs and e-ecigs in the folk scene
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 18 Jul 17 - 06:10 AM

Hmm, I remember years ago on an online chat commenting that I fancied a fag... As you say, my (UK) English meaning is not the same as a US understanding.

Subject: RE: cigs and e-ecigs in the folk scene
From: Johnny J
Date: 18 Jul 17 - 12:37 PM

Personally, I'd like to see "vaping" banned in all pubs too. Not least because the participants just look ridiculous.

Talking of photographs, there has been a history of air brushing cigarettes from record sleeves.

E.G.
https://www.discogs.com/release/2904428-The-Man-With-A-Rhyme/images

and


https://www.amazon.co.uk/Man-Rhyme-Archie-Fisher/dp/B000008U5S

I believe they've also removed paul McCartney's cigarette from the Abbey Road cover.

Subject: RE: cigs and e-ecigs in the folk scene
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Jul 17 - 06:07 AM

I gave up smoking years ago but if I was ever to start vaping I would try to find a device that looked like a Sherlock Holmes pipe :-) Those stainless steel modern contraptions do look strange but a good well bent briar would add a certain je ne sai qua!

DtG

Subject: RE: cigs and e-ecigs in the folk scene
From: Will Fly
Date: 19 Jul 17 - 06:19 AM

Ah, but you do realise that the bent briar/meerschaum style pipe was an invention of the actor William Gillette? The original Sidney Paget illustrations showed Holmes smoking a straight-stemmed pipe...

Subject: RE: cigs and e-ecigs in the folk scene
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Jul 17 - 06:30 AM

Just looked it up, Will. Interesting. The Gillette invention was Holmes using a Calabash pipe as a straight one obscured the actors face. In the books Conan-Doyle mentions three types. Briar, clay and cherry-wood but the shape is never mentioned! Clay would have been straight. I don't think I have ever seen a bent clay although the longer 'churchwarden' ones tend to have a curved stem. The cherry-wood pipes I have seen have generally had quite long straight stems with a curved mouthpiece. That leaves briar and there are loads of different shaped ones of those! Anyones guess as to what C-D had in mind :-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: cigs and e-ecigs in the folk scene
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 19 Jul 17 - 06:30 AM

Not sure I ever really took to a pipe but probably still have one. My memory may be wrong but I think there were 2 people demonstrating how to fill and stoke one up plus me trying to follow. Whatever, we did produce a cloud of smoke at the bar.

Subject: RE: cigs and e-ecigs in the folk scene
From: Jack Campin
Date: 19 Jul 17 - 06:33 AM

Did Holmes also have a cool vintage cocaine syringe?

Sherlock Holmes took his bottle from the corner of the mantel-piece and his hypodermic syringe from its neat morocco case.   With his long, white, nervous fingers he adjusted the delicate needle, and rolled back his left shirt-cuff. For some little time his eyes rested thoughtfully upon the sinewy forearm and wrist all dotted and scarred with innumerable puncture-marks. Finally he thrust the sharp point home, pressed down the tiny piston, and sank back into the velvet-lined arm-chair with a long sigh of satisfaction.

- The Sign of Four

Must at least have had an ivory plunger.

Subject: RE: cigs and e-ecigs in the folk scene
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 19 Jul 17 - 10:44 AM

I was shocked to see how young the late Mr Boland was (as in, younger than me, and he didn't look it). The article didn't seem to give a cause of death, but it certainly wasn't old age.

I've never smelt anything when somebody vaping was nearby - which I couldn't say of smokers! - and I was under the impression the 'smoke' consisted mainly of water. But I admit I've never been around vapers for extended periods of time - the habit hasn't caught on among folkies in my area.

Subject: RE: cigs and e-ecigs in the folk scene
From: GUEST,Morris-ey
Date: 19 Jul 17 - 11:41 AM

I saw a programme on the BBC which established that a tobacco cigarette contained about 2000 toxins and an e-cig about 70. What kills smokers is tar and the other noxious products that burning tobacco generates. e-cigs have almost no such chemicals and the "smoke" is water vapour and aromats. Personally, I would not have them in pubs or clubs because of the smell.

Subject: RE: cigs and e-ecigs in the folk scene
From: Jack Campin
Date: 19 Jul 17 - 12:34 PM

The article didn't seem to give a cause of death, but it certainly wasn't old age.

Heart attack. (That is, chronic nicotine poisoning).

Subject: RE: cigs and e-ecigs in the folk scene
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Jul 17 - 01:06 PM

For someone like me with over sensitive sinuses and nasal passages...
Cigarettes weren't the only hazardous discomfort in pubs and clubs.

One problem still lingers..

Women and men reeking of strong perfumes.

It makes me itchy and nauseous.. and agitates my stress levels to the verge of aggression...

Fragranced vapes now add to this invisible cloud of toxic chemical warfare agents.... 😣

Subject: RE: cigs and e-ecigs in the folk scene
From: Rusty Dobro
Date: 19 Jul 17 - 01:13 PM

As a life-long non-smoker (the second thing I did on my honeymoon was to ask my wife to give up smoking), I still felt disappointed when I went to my first music session in Ireland to find that the traditional smoke-filled bar was a thing of the past.

Subject: RE: cigs and e-ecigs in the folk scene
From: Will Fly
Date: 19 Jul 17 - 01:29 PM

For many years I played a white Fender Strat in a soul band in Brighton pubs and other venues. I didn't smoke but the pub punters generally did.

When I used to open up my guitar case the morning after a gig, I was hit with the smell of smoke. My pillow stunk of cigarette smoke, as did my hair. (I parked trousers over the stair banisters overnight).

The white Strat gradually turned a golden mellow yellow - probably the same colour as the inside of my lungs at that period.

I cheered when the smoking ban came in...

Subject: RE: cigs and e-ecigs in the folk scene
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 19 Jul 17 - 02:34 PM

Is your 'golden mellow yellow' Strat for sale, Will?

Sounds interesting.

Subject: RE: cigs and e-ecigs in the folk scene
From: Jack Campin
Date: 19 Jul 17 - 02:43 PM

"Tobacco sunburst" on guitars has to be one of the weirdest colour schemes ever applied to any product. About as appealing as "gonorrhoeal pus" underwear.

Subject: RE: cigs and e-ecigs in the folk scene
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jul 17 - 02:48 PM

And you know this, how?Jack?:-)

Subject: RE: cigs and e-ecigs in the folk scene
From: JMB
Date: 19 Jul 17 - 08:37 PM

We have several towns where there are by-laws that ban smoking in the downtown core. Smoking in pubs has been banned for almost ten years now. I remember the last night that you could smoke in a pub here.

As for cigs and e-cigs in the folk scene, I smoked off and on over time. I used to have a ritual of having a smoke before and after going on stage. It would help me relax and focus on the music before the show I guess, and afterwards I'm not sure why I would have one.

The physical withdrawal was tough. That's why nicotine replacement therapeutics (or NRT's) help me a lot. I wouldn't be in a physical state of ugh, when quitting smoking. Psychological withdrawal wasn't as bad as it is something that I really wanted to do.

Subject: RE: cigs and e-ecigs in the folk scene
From: Will Fly
Date: 20 Jul 17 - 02:54 AM

Is your 'golden mellow yellow' Strat for sale, Will?

Alas, no - sold it quite a few years ago.

Subject: RE: cigs and e-ecigs in the folk scene
From: GUEST,Eddie (Cookie lost forever)
Date: 20 Jul 17 - 05:28 AM

Roy Bookbinder would seem to have a very definite opinion on e-cigs:- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NM2hi7G1xRo

I have been vaping for seven years, to the total exclusion of cigarettes, with a great improvement in my health. Only downer is that my voice has lost a lot of its timbre.
Eddie

Subject: RE: cigs and e-ecigs in the folk scene
From: JHW
Date: 20 Jul 17 - 05:38 AM

We tolerate most things in folk clubs but surely the absence of stale smoke has been a massive benefit.
Some pubs do ban e-cigs; some ban music. Many e-cigs are barely more than a real cig in size but now you might see almost a saxaphone fag. I'd tend to accept them; I've been surprised by some very unlikely converts and would encourage them not to go back.

Subject: RE: cigs and e-ecigs in the folk scene
From: MikeL2
Date: 20 Jul 17 - 06:13 AM

Hi

The clubs and their customers are better off without any form of smoking.

I played for years in smoky bars clubs etc.

Although I never ever smoked - not even one cigarette - I was struck with throat cancer. All the medical people I saw blamed passive smoking.

Thankfully I am now clear. So I obviously agree with control over smoking in all establishments.

Cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: cigs and e-ecigs in the folk scene
From: David C. Carter
Date: 20 Jul 17 - 09:48 AM

Never smoked an oily rag in me life.

Subject: RE: cigs and e-ecigs in the folk scene
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Jul 17 - 10:02 AM

2 weeks ago we walked past one of the last remaining half decent pubs in town.
the doors and windows were shut, but there was an obvious stench of skunk smoke emanating fro inside the front bar...

Last week we walked past, and a sign on the door said "Closed, opening under new management"..

Subject: RE: cigs and e-ecigs in the folk scene
From: GUEST,Desi C
Date: 20 Jul 17 - 12:26 PM

As an ex smoker and a somewhat ex heavy drinker I hate to see E-cigs, they just remind me of how much I miss the atmosphere of real smokey old clubs and lots of good ale, PC took it all away nothing E helps in any way to compensate us for the loss

Subject: RE: cigs and e-ecigs in the folk scene
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Jul 17 - 12:40 PM

"PC took it all away nothing E helps in any way to compensate us for the loss"

..perhaps and injection of heroin before popping out for an evening... 😜

Me.. I just for the most part packed in going out, and now only binge drink cider, wine, & spirits at home on bank holidays...

Subject: RE: cigs and e-ecigs in the folk scene
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 20 Jul 17 - 03:57 PM

PC?!! It wasn't PC to stop people suffering from the effects of second hand smoke, having to wash clothes after wearing them once, stopping asthmatics and people with other chest problems like me from going into pubs except for those with really good air conditioning or which made the sensible decision to go smoke free before the ban

Subject: RE: cigs and e-ecigs in the folk scene
From: JMB
Date: 20 Jul 17 - 11:23 PM

Mike, That's a terrible thing. throat cancer, but it's good your'e cleared up. Really good to hear. That's like a friend of mine, he used to allow smoking in his home. He wasn't a smoker himself. He had trouble with his tongue and throat for quite some time. He went to a specialist and they said that 95% of her cancer patients were smokers. He may have exaggerated a bit if you knew this friend of mine, as that's a high number and he does embellish the truth with many, many things. Now he doesn't allow smoking in his home whatsoever. He's clear, but it was a scare for sure.

Subject: RE: cigs and e-ecigs in the folk scene
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Jul 17 - 12:12 AM

While we are on this subject, 20 years ago, a friend of mine in his early 30s...
A very popular pin-up handsome guitarist in an East London rock covers band.
He was a non smoker.
Just about every one else in the band, pubs, & parties were heavy smokers... [me included to a lesser extent - if you can't beat 'em, join 'em]

He was suddenly diagnosed with throat cancer, and dead within a few weeks.

His funeral was the last time I ever smoked anything.

At the pub wake, a bunch of us sat round a table smoking and looked at each other and spontaneously agreed...

"This is the last cigarette"

Don't know about the others, I lost touch with them 15 years ago.

But I stuck permanently to that vow.

Subject: RE: cigs and e-ecigs in the folk scene
From: Senoufou
Date: 21 Jul 17 - 03:12 AM

In my view, any kind of smoking (cigarette or vaping) should be banned everywhere except in the addicts' houses. Not in any public building, pub, outside the main door of Tesco, nor outside shops. Not at bus stops, in the street or in buses or taxis.
I don't see why I should be forced to inhale toxic chemicals (and there are these even in vapour, though in smaller amounts than cigarette smoke) as I walk about. Nor do I wish to smell strong odours of various vaping flavours. I want my air clean and unpolluted thank you.

Vaping uses nicotine, which hardens blood vessels, causes 'stiff arteries' and thus strokes/heart attacks. Another reason why I don't want it in my lungs.

Regarding strong perfume, I strongly agree. Very inconsiderate to make everyone smell overpowering scent. It affects asthmatics, and makes some people nauseous.

Subject: RE: cigs and e-ecigs in the folk scene
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Jul 17 - 08:26 AM

I think it's 30 years since I smoked. Never really missed it.

I'm with Dave though in quite liking the idea of a vape pipe. Cigarette's always look seedy, a pipe has a reliability about it, however spurious.   

If you're going to be puffing something, vaping is clearer safer than smoking. Put preferably nothing with nicotine in it.

Subject: RE: cigs and e-ecigs in the folk scene
From: Jack Campin
Date: 21 Jul 17 - 08:58 AM

As a bystander, I'd rather be sitting next to a cigarette smoker than a vaper any day. Vape fumes make my eyes and lungs burn for days. Second-hand cigarette smoke stinks my clothes up but the effect on my body isn't as long-lasting.

If I see even one person in a pub with an e-cig I have to walk out.

Subject: RE: cigs and e-ecigs in the folk scene
From: Senoufou
Date: 21 Jul 17 - 09:20 AM

We sometimes go to a huge branch of Asda in a rather poorer district of Norwich. We only go there to get very reasonably-priced turkey legs to freeze.
Outside the door stand at least about fifteen people, (customers and workers) puffing away on either e cigs or real ones. The air is like a pea-souper fog and the stench unbearable, but one has to pass through it to get inside. I take a huge breath like someone diving under the sea, and whizz past. My husband pulls his Muslim hat over his nose and mouth as if there's been a chemical leak at a biological warfare factory. We must look daft, but we just can't bear it. Neither of us has ever smoked in our entire lives.

Subject: RE: cigs and e-ecigs in the folk scene
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Jul 17 - 09:50 AM

If folks are still desperately craving for nicotine in public places & spaces,
what is wrong with supping nicotine enhanced drinks..
do they exist, if not why not...???

They had their chewing gums and patches, before this fad for defiant cigarette ban busting vaping...

and all the dodgy looking vape shops occupying previously empty shops in depressed high streets..

I guess it's a profitable option for owners of now outlawed legal high businesses...????

Subject: RE: cigs and e-ecigs in the folk scene
From: MikeL2
Date: 21 Jul 17 - 02:59 PM

Hi JMB

Thanks for the kind comments.

Passive smoking a danger that many people are not aware of....and many are but underestimate the problems.

A more famous example is the one of British musician and entertainer Roy Castle who contacted cancer and fought it bravely and publicly to try to warn people of the problems. His wife and family set up a fund to try to prevent passive smoking.

I am one of the lucky ones....I survived but only after much worry and concern for me and my family.

Regards

MikeL2

Subject: RE: cigs and e-ecigs in the folk scene
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Jul 17 - 03:10 PM

Nicotie containing drinks do exist.
See here.
I can see serious risks - I would rather expect they'll get banned in the UK.

Subject: RE: cigs and e-ecigs in the folk scene
From: Jack Campin
Date: 21 Jul 17 - 04:56 PM

My mum used to soak a few cigarette ends in a glass of water to make a spray to kill blackfly. So I guess you could drink it.