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BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat
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Subject: BS: No-go subjects on Mudat From: Jim Carroll Date: 18 Jul 17 - 04:11 AM It appears that we have reached the point on this forum that when we choose "uncomfortable" subjects to discuss they are closed and we are told to "go and play" by the moderators. I find this an extremely patonising attitude towards a group of adults by a bunch of faceless censors who have taken it upon themselves to 'Firewall' certain subjects because they cause dissension We don't always behave ourselves as we should - true - that goes for all sides of the political and musical spectrum, but unless we are allowed to slug them out in the manner we see fit, there is little point of our being here If any of us overstep the mark and indulge in bad behaviour , it is up to the moderators to warn us and, if we persist, have us removed from the thread and then the forum On several occasions now, threads have been deliberately closed by trolls simply screaming hate-filled insults, "Jew hater" being a particular favourite - it has become a sure way to curtail uncomfortable discussion. These hate-mailers are allowed to continue, thread after killed-off thread Why - are these built-in ejector seats for when them upstairs decide we've said enough? On our part, we seriously need to get a grip and moderate our own behaviour, but we need to be allowed to do so as adults. The subjects that cause the problems are usually serious ones that concern us deeply and often passionately, but if we can't express ourselves fully on them, they become anodyne and pointless There is a clause in the membership that suggests we behave politely and with respect to each other - if we all adhered to that one, I believe we can be trusted to behave responsibly without placing bounds on where we can take discussions. A first step might be to give a final warning to the hate-poster who immediately reverts to "Jew hater" when he finds himself at a loss for an articulate response. There are no "Jew haters" on this forum, or if there are, they have never made themselves known enough to have become a problem. A final warning and then expulsion would clean out this particular Augean Stable Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Senoufou Date: 18 Jul 17 - 04:33 AM Well it isn't our Forum is it? It's run by the Moderators and they have every right to sort it out as they see fit. 'Their house, their rules' etc. Also, as I see it, sometimes the nastiness on a thread gets so appalling, the only thing to do is to shut the whole thread down. One wants to encourage new members and posters, but imagine the reaction of someone new coming on here and seeing all the rude, insulting and disgraceful bickering, the political back-biting and personal insults etc. They'd probably shove off pronto and look for another site. |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Jim Carroll Date: 18 Jul 17 - 04:48 AM It is our forum Sen - if it a discussion forum we need the democracy to discuss what we like in the manner we please The moderators are there to moderate, not to dictate Our job is to abide by the conditions of membership Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Jon Freeman Date: 18 Jul 17 - 05:02 AM And from a different perspective, I've ceased to see the point in some threads. I know who the main players will be before opening them and can predict who will agree with whom. Rather than resolution, they can turn to 1000+ posts of bile with no real winners. Those with entrenched positions will remain as such and as one thread closes, another starts as a continuation with no minds changed. This has nothing to do with who I may or may not agree with on a particular issue nor is it an attempt to claim innocence in rows (I've had a few of my own…) It's just a feeling that the place would be better without a perpetual run of threads that can go nowhere nice. I'm a fine one to talk but perhaps it would be better to focus on what we have in common, for some of us, eg, gardening below the line? |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Dave the Gnome Date: 18 Jul 17 - 05:21 AM 1000+ posts of bile with no real winners Yet someone regularly claims the victory :-) Sorry, Jon, couldn't resist it. But you are right. We did once try to change some of the nastier threads into things we have in common such as gardening, food and travel but that got complained about as well. Some people just want to argue and, yes, it does take two to tango so that oft times includes me! Not sure what the solution is but I do know that any thread such as this is doomed from the outset. DtG |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Mr Red Date: 18 Jul 17 - 05:43 AM Tango? - there is a better way! Have you tried schotishe? Bouree? Maybe a touch of Zydeco? We've said it so many times, "don't feed the trolls" but what do you call a troll who stands their ground and talks directly to the person, not the issue? You close the thread. And IMNSHO the right way. When a dog has a bone - do you talk to him, or make the bone distasteful, or make it vanish? The bone is not the issue, the brain controlling the jaw is the issue. Make him bite on his lip? Nah! make the bone disappear, every time. If it winds up the dog, the moderate win. If my thread got closed, I am chastised and rightly so. I am only human. Mind you - it doesn't stop me winding up the moderators just a teensy weensy bit, until they modify the thread title! Mia culpa 😈 |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Stu Date: 18 Jul 17 - 05:56 AM "Well it isn't our Forum is it? It's run by the Moderators and they have every right to sort it out as they see fit. 'Their house, their rules' etc. Also, as I see it, sometimes the nastiness on a thread gets so appalling, the only thing to do is to shut the whole thread down." This. Go somewhere else if you don't like it. Most threads below the line have become a complete waste of time, always ends up with the same old people making discussion impossible. |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Dave the Gnome Date: 18 Jul 17 - 06:01 AM Schotishe, Bouree and Zydeco do not make fizzy orange drinks... :D tG |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Mr Red Date: 18 Jul 17 - 06:28 AM they do if you drink the liquid first! 😎 |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Richard Bridge Date: 18 Jul 17 - 06:34 AM I have not been here for a while. I think I will probably go away again. It looks as if the hate-filled right has won again. |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Jon Freeman Date: 18 Jul 17 - 06:56 AM Not sure what the solution is but I do know that any thread such as this is doomed from the outset. Correct... But am trying to think of a harder drink dance. I seem to remember "Hot Punch" in brief morris days for maybe Poulton Le Fylde? Youtube is confusing me at the moment - think this is the Oyster Girl/New Rigged Ship??? I've lost touch... |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Senoufou Date: 18 Jul 17 - 07:02 AM Please don't go away again Richard. I was glad to see you'd returned on here after what seemed like a long absence. :) It's difficult isn't it? The 'softer' threads have old biddies like me waffling on at length about cats, gardening or health. It must get boring for the more feisty ones among us. Actually I feel very grateful to Max, Joe and the other Mods. They could easily just say, "Sod this for a game of soldiers!" close down the BS section, or the entire site, and go home to play music and relax. I often smile to myself and wonder what the Keyboard Warriors are like in real life. I expect they're big softies underneath. If not, I'd be a bit scared to come across them in the pub. Chairs would soon be flying, especially as I dared recently to admit to voting Tory! |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Dave the Gnome Date: 18 Jul 17 - 07:40 AM There is a massive difference between voting Tory and doing your utmost to discredit everyone else, Eliza. While I cannot agree with your choice, it is your choice to make. As long as you don't start to believe that yours is the only valid viewpoint then we will always get on :-) I agree about Richard too. You are right about the hate, Richard, but come back and make a stand against it. Please! DtG |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Senoufou Date: 18 Jul 17 - 07:46 AM That's it in a nutshell Dave. We can all have different viewpoints (and how boring if we all thought the same about everything. There'd be nothing to discuss!) but there's no need for folk to get nasty, call each other names and insult those who differ. My lovely, talented and clever niece is a card-carrying Communist. Her mum and I are Tories. We do have some...er...heated discussions, but we all find it interesting, not unpleasant. And the fact she's a Buddhist and a vegetarian adds spice to the chat. I wouldn't dream of insulting her, nor she me. |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Dave the Gnome Date: 18 Jul 17 - 07:50 AM Which brings us nicely back to Jim's opening post :-) No point in laying blame. No point in saying who is worse. No point in 'who started it'. It is who stops it that matters! DtG |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: bobad Date: 18 Jul 17 - 08:43 AM A final warning and then expulsion would clean out this particular Augean Stable This is the aim of this little gang of bullies who have all but destroyed this forum by having driven off most of the regulars. Get rid of all those who oppose their ideologies so that they can remain free to indulge in their circle jerk of self righteousness without having to deal with dissenting voices that challenge them. It's too bad, this used to be a fun and friendly place until they took it over. |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Greg F. Date: 18 Jul 17 - 08:48 AM Says the Troll-King. Unbelievable. |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Dave the Gnome Date: 18 Jul 17 - 08:53 AM See what I mean, Eliza? :-( |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Jim Carroll Date: 18 Jul 17 - 09:09 AM "This is the aim of this little gang of bullies " No Bobad - is part of cleaning up all our acts You have been screaming "Jew hater" for as long as I can remember If you belive that is reasonable debate, you have no place on any forum or anywhere in civilised society You have been warned consistently yet you persist That is mob-chant, not honest respectful debate We all get angry on occaion - you have developed you hate-postings as a form of suppressing debate It has destroyed threads and if you aer allowed to persist it will destroy this forum in my opinion THere are no "Jew haters" on this forum, there never have been and the common decency of most of the members ensure that there never will be Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: MikeL2 Date: 18 Jul 17 - 09:25 AM Hi It's started again !! Set my stopwatch ..........tic toc Cheers MikeL2 |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: bobad Date: 18 Jul 17 - 09:32 AM You have been screaming "Jew hater" for as long as I can remember And you have been screaming "Nazi", "storm trooper", "jack booter", "Islamophobe", "bigot", "racist", "fascist" etc. as long as I can remember. And don't forget comparing Israel and Israeli policy to that of the Nazis is anti-Semitic and anyone who does that is an anti-Semite. |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Pete from seven stars link Date: 18 Jul 17 - 09:38 AM I don't remember anyone calling Jew hater, but I do know there has been nasty talk by all sides . And to complicate things further , it don't matter how polite a poster might be , if one of an opposite view comments , they will be accused of being nasty just for having a different view. |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Jim Carroll Date: 18 Jul 17 - 09:50 AM No I have been screaming nothing I have used all thes tems very occaionally at the heigt of arguments when insults are being thrown about but I do not make it a knee-jerk response to anything, as you do You actually made it your first post in the now closed thread on Israel " a chance for the Jew haters" - that has nor become a regular technique I've already said we all need to clean upi our acts - you have described that as bullying - an indication that you have no intention of cleaning up yours. Most of those terms are perfectly valid in arguments - "Islamophobe", "racist", "fascist" "bigot" being typical of those that are both clearly definable and debatable in context I refuse to open the debate of definitions that have been made invalid by you and others by your selecting the bits that suit you and ignoring the bits that don't Associating the actions of the Israeli Government is a defined example of antisemitism - you do that every time you scream "Jew hater" whenever someone criticises Israeli policy If you attempt to pick-'n-mix your definitions they are automatically made invalid Do a deal with you Bobad, you clean up your act and I'll cleean up mine I have no problem with arguing calmly with those I disagree with as long as that argument is conducted in a civilised manner - so far, that seems to be beyond your capabilities - ask any humanitarian, liberal, reasonable member you have ever screamed "Jew hater" at Enough is enough - you have long gonr beyond the pale Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Steve Shaw Date: 18 Jul 17 - 09:50 AM Disingenuous, Pete. If your views on evolution, and on the honesty of scientific endeavour in general, were to prevail widely they would cause enormous damage to science. The cause of science in schools in many parts of the US is seriously damaged by views like yours, which I regard as ignorant and seriously misguided, achieving ascendancy. I don't mind hearing views different to mine but when those views are uninformed and expressed in a manner dismissive and critical of the other side they are simply vexatious. And I think it's perfectly fine to say so. We are all grown-ups, you know. |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Rapparee Date: 18 Jul 17 - 09:59 AM Aaand... they're off and running! |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: punkfolkrocker Date: 18 Jul 17 - 10:05 AM I don't know if bobad is for real, or a role play constructed persona with sole aim of winding up over serious lefties and liberals...??? But I do know that bobad as presented here in our debates is one of the most loathsome disruptive mudcatters I have ever encountered... |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Steve Shaw Date: 18 Jul 17 - 10:19 AM It's perfectly clear that bobad has no place on this forum. Every intervention he makes below the line creates a hostile atmosphere. I'm sick of one mod in particular blaming the "mess" on the rest of us, even suggesting that we may after all be Jew haters (!) and pretending that nothing can be done because we respond. I can't imagine any decent human being failing to respond to being called a Jew hater, Joe Offer. If that behaviour isn't sanctioned by the people who run the forum then they can scarcely criticise anyone else's behaviour, because it doesn't get as bad as that. I'm beginning to suspect that the mod in question is actually enjoying this unseemly spectacle so that he can eventually turn the thing right round, making bobad look like the injured innocent he most definitely isn't, and childishly blaming the whole sorry mess on his usual suspects, disingenuously wringing his hands as he goes. I can't think of anything more downright despicable that bobad's throwing around of the term Jew hater at the merest hint of any standpoint on the Middle East he disagrees with. He wouldn't survive ten seconds in any pub I've ever been in with talk like that, and I only ever go into nice pubs. You can't mend him. His permanent removal would sweeten the atmosphere here immeasurably. And that's a promise. Steve (lifelong campaigner against racism in all its guises and about as far removed from being a Jew hater as it's possible to be) |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Steve Shaw Date: 18 Jul 17 - 10:21 AM No conspiracy there. Pfr and I cross posted. |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 18 Jul 17 - 10:26 AM Steve, I disagree with your assessment of Bobad and Joe, and would say that your posts on political threads create a "hostile atmosphere" by your belligerence and nastiness to anyone who dares to disagree with you, and your gang of bullies who all turn on anyone who disagrees with any of you. |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: punkfolkrocker Date: 18 Jul 17 - 10:35 AM Keith... yes that standardised right wing 'party line'.. decrying "the gang of lefty bullies"...!!! That age old right wing ploy of trying to discredit and marginalise any left and progressive moderates opposition... We know what your lot are doing... it's that obvious... 😣 |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Jim Carroll Date: 18 Jul 17 - 10:37 AM Keith Nobody is trying to make this an argument Bobad's behaviour has been specified and is beyond dispute - not even he has denied it; he justifies it by saying others behave the same We all need to clean up our acts - including you Please don't make this another war - lets all clean up our acts eh? Bullies come in all shapes and sizes - "some rob you with a six-gun.....!!" Jim Carrroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Steve Shaw Date: 18 Jul 17 - 10:42 AM Cleaning up our acts would mean a damn sight more than just dropping the belligerence. A number of posters here have a deeply-ingrained habit of misrepresenting what other people say and trying to pull the wool over our eyes. There's a classic case of that going on right now in the Labour Party thread. Brace yourself if you're thinking of visiting. You sometimes have to ask yourself which comes first, the deliberate and frustrating dissembling or the shouting match... |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: robomatic Date: 18 Jul 17 - 10:55 AM Jim: POT. KETTLE. To the mods: We ain't perfekt. But do the best you can and let the bleating go on. What is a bridge without a troll? |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Jim Carroll Date: 18 Jul 17 - 11:01 AM Very helpful Robo - I can see you intend to make an effort - coming from a another "Jew hater" purveyor - pretty rich Can we at least call a tuce and make an effort - if not, this forum is well and truely a dead parrot Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: punkfolkrocker Date: 18 Jul 17 - 11:02 AM I'll just add before I go out to the shops.. A healthy sense of humour is essential.. ...especially self deprecating humour... |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Donuel Date: 18 Jul 17 - 11:26 AM nag carp kvetch and retch, hard ball complainers will always complain BUT I have a solution. It will create a dilution of the insults. it will eliminate closures to avoid potential law suits. The solution will reduce to jut one tory argument thread. It will reduce the 187 Trump threads to one. It will dilute the misgivings of consumers and moderators &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&. THE SOLUTION IS THE ONE "FATHER OF ALL POLITICS" Thread. &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&& If it is political it goes here. If a separate political thread is started it will be closed! WWIII threads can be an exception to instant closure but they won't live long anyway. A mother of all BS is a kind and warm hearted to a point. The Father of all Politics is like real fathers, more hard edged , and to a degree ignored. Insults from children will be far between many more posts and subjects. If you want to call each other nmes go to private messages if you must. Be warned there are laws to protect internet users that did not exist 15 years ago. US Laws will be obeyed. Carp if you want but the solution of a Father of all polities is simplicity itself. The honor of founding the FATHER OF ALL POLITICS may go to Akenaton for all I care. You have my idea mods and founders. Please give guidance and new rules if you wish to try this experiment with a separate announcement/ Replies to this idea re indeed welcome. A one person one vote may be helpful. I am sure we cab share our toys in one sand box. |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Pete from seven stars link Date: 18 Jul 17 - 11:36 AM I did not even mention evolutionism Steve , but since YOU did , I will reply to your idea that creation detracts from science by reminding you that most of the great scientists of yesteryear were creationists , and it did not hinder them one iota |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Steve Shaw Date: 18 Jul 17 - 11:46 AM Name them. And the ones who weren't. You said most. So let's be having it. I didn't mention evolution-ism either. The unhyphenated version of that word is not in my lexicon. |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Greg F. Date: 18 Jul 17 - 11:50 AM by reminding you that most of the great scientists of yesteryear were creationists Dear God In Heaven.............so to speak. That's right pete, and before that they were shamans and witch-burners and flat-earthists and alchemists trying to change lead into gold. |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Donuel Date: 18 Jul 17 - 11:59 AM This looks like religion and not politics. They are both deadly but even a dog can tell the difference between the two. |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: robomatic Date: 18 Jul 17 - 12:06 PM Jim: I've found your posts to be informative at times. Your repetitiveness in citing the Soviet screed of the thirties through sixties has dulled your perceptions of the present day. The recent thread going back eighty years to rescue some sense of purpose from the "International Brigades" is not your cause alone, so there are plenty of others seeking some sense of purpose out of bygone eras. All I do is point it out. As to Israel, you are likewise repetitive and ALWAYS negative. You and your acolytes. You reveal yourselves by your posts, not by those who oppose you, blunt though they may be. On a different level, you don't acknowledge it, but I've worked hard in my posts to actually talk to you. Look 'em over, I've expressed myself in effin' PARAGRAPHS. And you've responded with 'blasts' Sentences that look like spaghetti. You are spouting, not listening. You lack of self-awareness gives me pause. Your little hangers-on don't have much to say, they are just remoras waiting to feed on the angry scrappers you draw. I haven't the power to do more than post into these threads. Others have obviously grown tired of the back-and-forth of blame and counter-blame. I try to shed more light than heat, but you repeat yourself ad nauseum. You also seem to believe in having the last word. You are welcome to it. Unless the last word has a shred of wisdom, it simply reveals intransigence. |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Jeri Date: 18 Jul 17 - 12:26 PM This meta thread is gonna get closed, but how to deal with pool pissers: I think a few of them should be allowed to post in music only. Otherwise, there's an old proverb that ends with "the wold who wins is the one you feed". This is why only a handful of people post in BS these days. People don't want to play with the bad kids, bullies, and obsessive fuckwits when what they want to talk about is Doctor Who or recipes for cornbread or holidays or...you-name-it. I'm out. |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Joe Offer Date: 18 Jul 17 - 12:37 PM I usually stay out of the BS threads because they really are horrible, but every once in a while I dive in and see if I can sway the thing into making sense. I tried that Saturday in the "International Brigades" thread, and I got in a whole peck of trouble. Hell, somebody even wrote a song about me. I used only logic and the truth. I didn't use my "delete" button at all, because I don't think it's fair to edit a thread if I'm participating. It appears to me that there are well-intentioned people who see the BS Forum as the site of an epic battle between Good and Evil, and they're going to make sure that Good wins every time. There is no room for questioning, or for opposing opinions. If the Bad Guys speak, whatever they say must be objectionable, and must be beaten down. It's a shame, but this necessity for Good to win over Evil, leaves no room for discussion. There's all sorts of interesting stuff that could be discussed about the International Brigades and the Spanish Civil War, but there's no room or time for that because the need for Good to win over Evil is all-important. I wanted to talk in the "Brigades" thread about Franco and his obsession with the El Cid myth, but there was no room for that in the discussion. I wanted ask about Franco's popularity and how it was that he was able to rule for so long, but there was no room for that, either. I wanted to ask about the International Brigades and what motivated those untrained soldiers to travel to Spain to fight a war they probably couldn't understand. And there's so much more we could have talked about, if only people were willing to allow discussion, and questioning, and opposing views. And I wonder if it might be possible for a poster to be mistaken about something, without being beaten to a pulp by the dominant forces. Take a look at the International Brigades thread, and take the time to analyze the dynamics of what went on there. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Joe Offer Date: 18 Jul 17 - 12:46 PM Oh, and it really makes discussion impossible when people bring their past squabbles over from previous threads. The Dominant Forces hadn't seen the "Jew Hater" debate finished to their satisfaction in previous threads, so they brought it over to the "Brigades" thread. I think that's what killed the "Brigades" thread, more than anything. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Jim Carroll Date: 18 Jul 17 - 01:02 PM "I've found your posts to be informative at times. " And I yours - they are not the problem - it's the "Jew hater" invective that degenerated into mudslinging "The Dominant Forces hadn't seen the "Jew Hater" debate finished to their satisfaction in previous threads" And it never will be Joe until it is qualified or withdrawn and apologised for - and all the holier-than thou - nuffin' to do wiv me guv, postings in the world are not going to make one iota of difference. That basic, totally unproven piece of obscenity (to those of us who care about the Jewish People rather than the regime that claims to represent them) is something that should not be allowed on these pages any more than any other slur should. When it comes from a mod it becomes more unpalatable This thread is rapidly dividing into those who want to change and those who wish to continue to extract their pound of flesh As Jeri says, it's gonna get closed - pity im Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Joe Offer Date: 18 Jul 17 - 01:15 PM I'm not moralizing here, Jim - I'm only saying what works and what doesn't. If you bring previous arguments and bad feelings into a different thread, it doesn't work. Go to the "Brigades" thread and tell me who was the first person to make mention of "Jew Hater" there. Tell me the date and time of the post, and the name of the person who poste it. The rest of us saw that "Jew Hater" reference, and it didn't make any sense to us because we hadn't seen the previous argument. And Jim, there's a longstanding principle in debate that precedes the Internet: If you have to refer to Nazi Germany to defend your point of view in a debate, you've run out of logic and lost the debate. If you refer to Nazi Germany in criticizing Jews or Israel, you've both lost the debate and said something anti-Semitic. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Steve Shaw Date: 18 Jul 17 - 01:26 PM "As to Israel, you are likewise repetitive and ALWAYS negative. You and your acolytes." "Your little hangers-on don't have much to say, they are just remoras waiting to feed on the angry scrappers you draw." "I try to shed more light than heat, but you repeat yourself ad nauseum." Well, the first two extracts show what a failure you are when it comes to the third. Your posts are both superficial in content and condescending in tone. You are absolutely part of the problem. All heat, no light. And it's ad nauseam, by the way. |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: punkfolkrocker Date: 18 Jul 17 - 01:33 PM Joe - I don't think it's as simplistic as that these days... whatever lies in the hearts of folk who choose a 'far right' path.. whatever names we give that 'dark force'.. their religion is immaterial..... As a bloke with polish jewish ancestory on my mums side, I accept that it is credible and justifiable to compare the extremes of far right Israeli politicians to 'nazi Germany'... Certain person with names beginning with bob.. might then accuse me of being a self hating jew, but not even a real jew at that.. Therefore I must be an anti semite...???? |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: akenaton Date: 18 Jul 17 - 01:36 PM The voice of reason, Joe Offer. I doubt it will make any difference here though, too many people have too much of their ideology invested here to make rational thought an option. Jim is simply a ranting dinosaur egged on by the little band of "acolytes"....I would call them something else and it rhymes. He reminds me of "Il duce".....I could just see him addressing the proletariat from the balcony.....:0) |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Steve Shaw Date: 18 Jul 17 - 01:37 PM "The rest of us saw that "Jew Hater" reference, and it didn't make any sense to us because we hadn't seen the previous argument." What utter nonsense. It has been brought to your intention repeatedly, not least by me in private messages, and we have discussed both the expression and the detestable character of the person who USES the expression. In fact, I believe I've discussed it with three moderators. It's no use trying to turn it back on those of us who protest at the use of the term. The blame for the extended spat lies squarely with the person who USES it and with those of you who are reluctant to defend us from such vile nastiness. OK, you've made it abundantly clear that you don't like us. It's beginning to be clear that that is why you won't stop him. Take a minute and have a think. Think about how hateful the expression is when levelled against people who are NO SUCH THING. |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Steve Shaw Date: 18 Jul 17 - 01:38 PM And how nice it must feel to have akenaton on your side. |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Joe Offer Date: 18 Jul 17 - 01:39 PM Israel is a complex situation, and it deserves honest and open discussion instead of a constant clash of already-determined positions. Once upon a time, when Israel had a Labor government, it was the darling of the liberals. Recently, its governments have been to the right of center, but an unrecognized problem is that the government has control because of its alliance with a tiny party that will not allow any gesture of reconciliation with the Palestinians. And it's this tiny party that is constructing the "settlements" in Palestinian territory. Most Israelis hate the expense of defending those settlements, but they feel they've been forced to accept them. And the Palestinians have had leaders who are as opposed to reconciliation, as are the extremist Israelis. And so the Palestinians fight with rockets and the Israelis with bulldozers. And an impossible situation continues. Most of the people on both sides are wonderful people, stuck between a rock and a hard place. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: akenaton Date: 18 Jul 17 - 01:43 PM Aye Steve I think we are all aware that you are an arse licker. You just couldn't help giving yourself away, and anyone who repeats or refers to personal messages on an internet forum is not worth a fart. That is a capital offence in my personal rule book. |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Steve Shaw Date: 18 Jul 17 - 01:44 PM *Sigh* |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Joe Offer Date: 18 Jul 17 - 01:52 PM Steve, I've asked Jim to do this and I ask you: take a look at the "International Battalions" thread and tell us who first brought up the "Jew-hater" issue in the thread and what date and time it was brought up. I do not deny that calling somebody a "Jew-hater" is unacceptable - but there's really not much that moderators can do about such name-calling. What I question, is who took the "Jew-hater" issue over to the "Battalions" thread, and what did it have to do with the topic of discussion? -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Joe Offer Date: 18 Jul 17 - 01:54 PM Ake, whose arse is Steve licking? Sure as hell feels like he's kicking mine.... again. |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Raggytash Date: 18 Jul 17 - 01:57 PM Joe, if you the look at the numbers killed by both sides in the Israeli/Palestine conflict I think you will find that Israel use considerably more rockets than Palestine. However they can afford to thanks to American financial backing. If you doubt that statement check the figures for American contribution to both states. Your Government over many years, not just the present one, have paid towards this conflict. |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Joe Offer Date: 18 Jul 17 - 02:09 PM Punkfolkrocker sez: I accept that it is credible and justifiable to compare the extremes of far right Israeli politicians to 'nazi Germany'... Oh, I don't doubt for a moment that there are some grounds for comparison, PFR. The trouble is, if you use a Nazi comparison as the basis for your argument, the debate teacher will give you a bing, fat "F." for your presentation. I admit that I've sometimes given in to the temptation to compare our Noble President to Hitler and his henchmen. It really does seem to me that Trump must have used Hitler's playbook to guide him to winning the U.S. Presidency. Two years ago, Trump had the support of less than 10 percent of the U.S. Republicans. He built his base to maybe 20 percent of Republicans by playing on their fears and prejudices. Then he took advantage of the wide playing field of Republican and gamed his way into winning the nomination with a 20 percent plurality. Then he gamed the U.S. election the same way, and again won with a miserable minority. But the trouble with comparing with Hitler, is that it's a cheap shortcut, and it bypasses all the actual facts and issues of the debate. Better to go through the points of the debate carefully and factually and logically, rather than to dismiss the opposition by saying "they're just like Hitler." If you do that, don't expect to win. The opposition may not be as stupid as you think. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Joe Offer Date: 18 Jul 17 - 02:16 PM I don't know the rocket count, Raggytash, but I do believe that Israel does far more damage with bulldozers, than anyone could do with rockets. They just move in with teams of bulldozers and destroy the neighborhoods where people have lived for generations. They get away with it because it sounds so much more civilized than rockets. But it's not. They use the bulldozers to clear spaces for "security," and also to clear spaces for new settlements for often-wealthy right-wingers. It is a quiet, civilized, and very insidious form of terrorism. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: punkfolkrocker Date: 18 Jul 17 - 02:20 PM Joe - even though I am not religious.. I like the word 'evil'.. That is more the 'go to' word in my vocabulary, than calling bad folks 'fascists or nazis'... |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: akenaton Date: 18 Jul 17 - 02:22 PM Joe I know you are remarkably even handed, even to those who mock your faith. We disagree about most things, but I trust you. Without you Mudcat would be shit pit, or even worse a highly moderated forum where any controversy was banned. If I very occasionally complain about something I listen to what you say because I know you have no favourites and no agenda other than to see the forum continue warts and all. I presume Steve knows better than to expect special treatment from you, but I have watched him massage the ideologies of others ....I need say no more. |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Steve Shaw Date: 18 Jul 17 - 02:23 PM Not only has the US paid towards the conflict, it indemnifies Israel against defeat and has ensured that they have never needed bargaining chips in the litany of bogus "peace negotiations" down the decades. "I do not deny that calling somebody a "Jew-hater" is unacceptable - but there's really not much that moderators can do about such name-calling." Yes there is. You can get rid of him. Nothing else is going to stop him. I'm bloody sick to the back teeth of half-expecting to be called a Jew hater every time I post my free speech as I have done in the first paragraph of this post. |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Joe Offer Date: 18 Jul 17 - 02:23 PM Yeah, PFR, but even then, you have to say why you think they're evil. The Israeli bulldozers are evil (I like the word "insidious"), but you win the debate by saying that the bulldozers do that makes them evil. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Greg F. Date: 18 Jul 17 - 02:26 PM an unrecognized problem is that the government has control because of its alliance with a tiny party that will not allow any gesture of reconciliation with the Palestinians. Unrecognized? You're kidding. Unrecognized by WHO?? (or is it Whom? I never could get that straight) Unrecognized by YOU perhaps, You perhaps. And that "tiny party" currently IS the de facto government of Israel. And when that government and its actions are criticised here, out come the "Jew-Hater and "Anti-Semite" accusations and all the rest of the abuse by the "dominant forces"or "usual suspects". Are you really unable to see that, or are you just being a pain in the ass to entertain yourself? but there's really not much that moderators can do about such name-calling. Oh please. Gee whiz, Joe - then I must have been hallucinating about my suspension a while back, eh? That never happened? And what about the others that have been suspended and/or personallty barred? C'mon Joe. You're smarter than that (I think). |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Raggytash Date: 18 Jul 17 - 02:27 PM Joe, I accept that rockets was probably not a clear word to use, but the numbers of dead accredited to both side weights down far more heavily on the numbers killed by the Israeli's. Last time I looked by a coniderable amount in their "favour" " |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 18 Jul 17 - 02:42 PM We would be allowed to discuss any subject, even Israel, if we stuck to the issues. What always happens is that people switch to attacking each other. usually trying to prove someone is a bad person by referring to old, sometimes years old, threads. It is happening to me now on the Labour thread. Stick to the issue and avoid name calling and all the problems would go away. |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Jim Carroll Date: 18 Jul 17 - 02:51 PM Go to the "Brigades" thread and tell me who was the first person to make mention of "Jew Hater" there. I know who did, what I said and why I said it – so please do me the favour of putting it in context "When the trolls and goose-steppers on this forum accuse me of being a "Jew hater" and an "Anglophobe" I remember that their England isn't mine and their Jews are not my Jews. " Whenever criticism of Israel is raised here, the knee-jerk response is "Jew hater" – every single time without fail A calm discussion of what is happening there is no longer possible, deliberately so. What do I do – ait for it to happen and allow this to continue? I used the term rhetorically, unlike you and your friends who have chosen to use it as an insult " If you have to refer to Nazi Germany to defend your point of view in a debate, you've run out of logic and lost the debate and said something anti-Semitic.." I suggest you go and count the number of Jews who are actually doing this to oppose the behaviour of the Israeli regime – including former heads of the Israeli security services, a leading general and hundred of holocaust survivors I suggest that, should you get the opportunity, you go to see the documentary film, 'The Gatekeepers' It is true that the once accepted definition makes such comparisons antsemitic, but the final clause of that definition makes it anti-Semitic to associate the Jewish people with the actions of the Isreali Government Israel and its supporters do this every time they describe criticism of their policy as "anti-Semitic" It as become a knee jerk defence of war crimes and atrocities – it is little more than crouching behind the dead of Auschwitz to protect their behaviour. Even Jews who criticise Israel have become "self hating or self loathing" The greated brain on this planet, Albert Einstein was the irst to warn against Israeli fascism – in 1949, four years after the Holocaust Israel's latest stunt in defending anti-Semitic propaganda has ripped the mask of completely If the state which claims to be acting on behalf of the Jewish people refuse to adhere to the definition, the only one we have to fall back on is denigrating the Jewish people I spent a large part of my youth working with Jews – mostly left wingers, many, holocaust survivors I nearly married into one of their families until I fell out with the mother obver her describing the then leadership of Israel as a bunch of fascist – I was more naïve then Tey wer all left wingers who regarded the right as their persecutors and killers – yet here we have a bunch of right wingers, feeling using the term leftie This is what it has always been about – not about the Jewish Peole bu a battle between left and right I am applaed you have chosen to join the trolls in their chorus of Jew hater I am appalled that this is the only evidence you can provide of my "Jew hating" I am allalled that you refuse to either qualify it or withdraw it – I have long abandoned the idea that you will apologise for sinking to their level I am not a Jew Hater – I have never attacked the Jews in my life, neithr ahs anyody else on this forum, yet you three continue to use the tem against fellow Mudcatters No wonder we can't get consensus on our behaviour if our oderators behave sa they do Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Greg F. Date: 18 Jul 17 - 02:56 PM It is a quiet, civilized, and very insidious form of terrorism. Your definition of "civilized" is evidently not the one in the dictionary. But have a care, Joe by your criticizing Israel the "usual suspects" should soon descend on you screaming "Jew -Hater" .... Or perhaps not, since you're carrying the can for the "usual suspects" now. |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: punkfolkrocker Date: 18 Jul 17 - 03:09 PM Joe - certain kinds of people gravitate towards seizing certain kinds of positions of power.. they are evil... Doesn't matter what their religion, culture, society may be.. or what names they choose to collectively go under - they are evil people... The source of this evil is open to debate.. I incline towards explanations of personality / mental health issues.. - sociopaths... .. or in easier terms.. extreme right wingers.. [and that includes past abominations corrupting the progressive ideals of revolutionary communism..] I've just eaten a huge bowl [and seconds] of curried spagetti bolognaise.. so that's the best anyone can get out of me for the next few hours.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Joe Offer Date: 18 Jul 17 - 03:33 PM Jim sez: This is what it has always been about – not about the Jewish Peole bu a battle between left and right Yeah, Jim. And if that's the case, I'll side with the left and we can drop all the posturing. Then we can drink beer and sit around in a circle and sing Peter, Paul and Mary songs. But that's not the deal. This world is a complex, interesting phenomenon that can't be boiled down to just a simplistic struggle between left and right. There are complex questions to explore, and the answers are not always immediately evident. Therefore, it just doesn't make sense for you to bring the same, old, bickering arguments into every thread and fight about the same things in every thread. I think I see above that you finally admitted that it was you who brought the "jew-hater" argument into the Brigades thread. Now, get this straight: I choose my words very carefully, and I mean exactly what I say. I said it before and I'll say it now, that I do not think that you are a Jew-hater. Period. Full stop. HOWEVER, I also said that the rhetoric of leftists has changed over the years, and people on the left now say things that are hurtful to Jews. It is a difficult thing to speak critically of Israel without being hurtful to Jews, but I think it's something we need to do. Rather than resorting to labels or comparisons with Hitler, we need to gather and report the facts - and name the people who are responsible. Jim, while I do not think that you are a Jew-hater, you made a broad comparison of Israel and Nazi Germany in a way that could be considered to be anti-Semitic. I think it should be a lesson to you to report information factually and choose your words carefully. I caught you making an anti-Semitic remark and I called "gotcha!" I was also careful to make it clear that I did not think you to be a Jew-hater. That's all. I called "gotcha!" Nothing more. No insult intended. Don't make it into something it isn't intended to be. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Joe Offer Date: 18 Jul 17 - 03:43 PM So, Greg_F, you need to do a little reading. Study up on the Lubavitcher Rebbe. Although he never visited Israel in his long life (1902-1994), he and his small minority Lubavitch Chabad movement have had a profound effect on the govenment of Israel. When you've learned about him, come back and pontificate. But don't start pontificating until you actually understand the complex political history of Israel. It's a fascinating story. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: keberoxu Date: 18 Jul 17 - 03:44 PM What Senoufou says! Bless her. "Keyboard Warriors." I love that. We ought to keep that one. Says one of the softies who prefer to converse on paper sacks with cats creeping into them. |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Greg F. Date: 18 Jul 17 - 04:21 PM I'm well acquainted with the various Hasidic groups, Joe. Also aware of Rabbi Schneerson' history & career. As interesting as that history may be, its not a substitute for the fact that you are unable (or unwilling?) to refute any of the points I raised in 18 Jul 17 - 02:26 PM. Would you care to do that now, or are you going to persist in trying to blow smoke up our asses? I'd be particularly interested in your elabobrating upon your claim that "there's really not much that moderators can do about such name-calling" in light of my personal experiences. |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: bobad Date: 18 Jul 17 - 04:22 PM They beat their breasts over "Jew hater" but have no problem calling others "Nazi", "storm trooper", "jack booter", "Islamophobe", "bigot", "racist", "fascist", "goose stepper" and other filthy epithets - the hypocrisy boggles the mind. |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: bobad Date: 18 Jul 17 - 04:30 PM Joe said Jim, while I do not think that you are a Jew-hater, you made a broad comparison of Israel and Nazi Germany in a way that could be considered to be anti-Semitic. If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck. |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: punkfolkrocker Date: 18 Jul 17 - 04:35 PM Bob - sticks 'n' stones... 🙄 "Nazi hater", "storm trooper hater", "jack booter hater", "Islamophobe hater", "bigot hater", "racist hater", "fascist hater", "goose stepper hater" ... even "duck hater"... i'm a big bloke.. you can call me any of them, any time you like... Except I've never really gone in much for hate.. it's too much like hard work and emotional effort.. I prefer looking for the good in even the worst people, and looking forwards to reconciliation.. You might wanna try that for a change.. it's aright.. you can.. really.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Dave the Gnome Date: 18 Jul 17 - 04:37 PM But you are just goading people, Bobad. It is no wonder that you get the reaction you provoke and hope for. Your 2 last posts had nothing to do with the thread but were just having a gratuitous dig at others. How does that help? DtG |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Greg F. Date: 18 Jul 17 - 04:46 PM Err... its not SUPPOSED to help, he's a jerk. |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: robomatic Date: 18 Jul 17 - 04:57 PM Steve Shaw: Thank you for the spelling correction. As for your comment, all I can say is that it is accurate to my single post above, (and you correctly inferred that I was implying you as an acolyte). But I have spent a lot of time on longer posts and been treated with condescension and worse, and you are certainly one of those culprits, most recently in the "International Brigades" thread, though several of our posts were redacted, including the one where I asked if anyone had bothered to look up "Mary McGregor!" and you responded quite deliberately with nothing but a put-down (which I say again, coming from you I took as a compliment). So you're a heater, not a lighter (except for the spelling correction, which is useful)! |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Dave the Gnome Date: 18 Jul 17 - 04:58 PM Sorry Greg, as much as many would agree, that post is just the same :-( We can all be better than this. I may seem a fine one to talk but I like to believe that when I get involved it is usually because someone has told a lie or misinterpreted something. It would be easier just to let it go but when that lie is about me or something I hold dear I cannot help but be defensive. I accept that there are some people you just cannot reason with but everyone is aware of that and anyone with an ounce of sense can see who is right and wrong without the need for further abuse. I think! :-) DtG |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: robomatic Date: 18 Jul 17 - 04:59 PM Raggytash: When someone complains not about the issues, but about the lack of enough Israeli dead, guess what I'm tempted to think about them? |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: bobad Date: 18 Jul 17 - 05:02 PM Your 2 last posts had nothing to do with the thread but were just having a gratuitous dig at others. I was inspired by your pal Carroll referring to posters as "goose steppers" in his last post. I guess you have no problem with that but then why would you? |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Greg F. Date: 18 Jul 17 - 05:03 PM anyone with an ounce of sense can see who is right and wrong without the need for further abuse. Aye, Dave, Point taken. I'd like to believe that was so, but there's times I'm not so sure. For example, most recently there's a gent whose name begins with J who's having difficulty making that distinction. |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Jim Carroll Date: 18 Jul 17 - 05:04 PM " I'll side with the left and we can drop all the posturing" Doublealk Joew Youu accused me of hating Jews Prove it or apologise - simple as that Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Steve Shaw Date: 18 Jul 17 - 06:02 PM "When someone complains not about the issues, but about the lack of enough Israeli dead, guess what I'm tempted to think about them?" And guess what we think of you for making such a vacuous and stupid remark. As for your repeated moaning and groaning about lost posts in another thread, well personally I don't give a flying fart about lost posts, still less can I remember what they were about. At my age my cranial hard drive is already too stuffed with things to do with real life. It's all part of our jolly old internet life. I suppose there are dedicated people who archive all their posts. Well I ain't one of 'em and my advice on lost posts would be (a) forget it, and (b) get a life. Like Clementine, they are lost and gone forever. |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Greg F. Date: 18 Jul 17 - 06:06 PM The Lost Post ..... lemmie see..... wasn't that written by Sir Arthur Sullivan, Steve? Or am I confusing it with a bugle call? |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Joe Offer Date: 18 Jul 17 - 06:16 PM Jim, you're repeating yourself. I stated what I had to say quite clearly the first time, and I restated it in this thread. Not wanting to be accused of being a dottering old fool repeating the same thing over again, I will refrain. Greg_F, I am truly confused about what question I'm supposed to answer. I think it was something about my statement about moderators not being able to control what Mudcatters say. Considering what you've been able to get away with saying despite your recent month-long suspension, I'd say you're living proof. As for the political structure of Israel, it gets interestinger and interestinger as I read more. This BBC article says there were 34 political parties running for 120 seats in the Knesset in 2013. The ultra-Orthodos Shas Party is the minority party that seems to have far more sway than its 7-member Knesset membership should allow it. It has a U.S. office in Brooklyn. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Steve Shaw Date: 18 Jul 17 - 06:18 PM It was The Lost Chord, Greg. Never better sung than by the great Peter Dawson. Seated one day at the organ, I was weary and ill at ease, And my fingers wander'd idly over the noisy keys; I knew not what I was playing, or what I was dreaming then, But I struck one chord of music like the sound of a great Amen. Peter Dawson's "Lost Chord": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGS7Jk03fgg [does it work in UK? -Joe Offer-] |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Joe Offer Date: 18 Jul 17 - 06:22 PM My experience is that most Lost Posts, are lost for technological reasons, and not because of censorship. I lose lots of posts. I try to remember to highlight [CTRL-A] and copy [CTRL-C] things before posting. But sometimes when I'm deeply involved in posting something particularly profound, I plumb forget to copy my text. I hit "submit," and it's gone. Dang. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Senoufou Date: 18 Jul 17 - 06:24 PM Haha Steve. As long as it wasn't played by Les Dawson! (Most of his chords were lost.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Greg F. Date: 18 Jul 17 - 06:36 PM I am truly confused about what question I'm supposed to answer. Oh please, Joe, I can't make it any plainer. But I'll try again - maybe you're having a bad day. You claim: ""there's really not much that moderators can do about such name-calling" And yet, you refer to my "recent month-long suspension" which was imposed, as you told me repeatedly in PMs, was for "calling people names". I'll gladly post those PMs here, if your mermory needs jogging. When was the last time Bobad and/or his "cohorts" were suspended, pray? And for how long? Use that logic you frequently enjoin others to employ; you can't have it both ways. |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Steve Shaw Date: 18 Jul 17 - 06:52 PM I don't speak American but "dang" sounds like the only appropriate response to a vanished post. I've lost a good few because they haven't taken for some reason. Select all-copy is the iPad way. Complaining about deletions is a fool's game. The complaints rarely work, and never if you moan in public. The YouTube doesn't work. I'm sure I can find it this end but you know about me and links, don't you. |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: bobad Date: 18 Jul 17 - 06:52 PM When was the last time Bobad and/or his "cohorts" were suspended, pray? The difference may lie in the fact that I can back up my accusations with proof. See: Definition of Anti-Semitism |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Joe Offer Date: 18 Jul 17 - 06:53 PM Oh, good, I answered the right question. Now, look at how many times bobad posts (10,774). Then look at how many times Greg_F posts (12,622). -Joe "I calls 'em as I sees 'em" Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Steve Shaw Date: 18 Jul 17 - 06:59 PM Got it here just by googling Peter Dawson Lost Chord. What a man he was. |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Steve Shaw Date: 18 Jul 17 - 07:05 PM But you are not treating them equally. For a start, you called only Greg a name. Which, I believe, is one of the reasons you banned him. Ironic, I'd say. OK. I'm being flippant, but whatever else Greg is he's not a fraud. Mind you, there are several of them about. Now who was it who was deliberately posting under two identities... |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Joe Offer Date: 18 Jul 17 - 07:07 PM Steve, the YouTube link comes from Topic, so I assumed that was from Topic in the UK - but I've had experience with many other Topic YouTube videos not playing in the UK. I wonder what the story is behind the Topic YouTube videos, and why they don't play in the UK. I was thinking that the Topic videos came from the publishers and would be more reliable than videos put up by Joe Public. That seems to be true, but apparently they don't play in multiple countries. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Steve Shaw Date: 18 Jul 17 - 07:14 PM Such complexities elude me, Joe. I carry out certain of life's tasks with reasonable elegance, but tussling with things like links and stuff isn't one of them. |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Greg F. Date: 18 Jul 17 - 07:50 PM Now, look at how many times bobad posts (10,774). Then look at how many times Greg_F posts (12,622). Gee whiz, Joe. Bobad "ONLY" posted 11,000 times. Lets apply your famous logic, shall we? 1- Does that number include all of his posts that have been deleted? Must be several thousand of them at least. 2-Earliest post I can find for Bobad is 2005. I've been posting here since 1998 if not earlier. Care to try again? Or are you reprising "Lying With Statistics"? Nor does any of that begin to explain why Bobas hasn't been sanctioned. If you calls 'em as you sees 'em, consider a trip to an optometrist. |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Jeri Date: 18 Jul 17 - 07:58 PM "Greg the Fraud"??!! What do you mean by that, Joe the Paternalistic Ass-Butt? |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Stilly River Sage Date: 18 Jul 17 - 08:15 PM Oops. I didn't read far enough back up and gave Reinhard his own thread on YouTube topics. He seemed to have walked into a gunfight with a knife so I moved him. It sounded like a reasonable topic on it's own. Apologies. Back to the squabble. |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Steve Shaw Date: 18 Jul 17 - 08:22 PM Lest we forget during this stats-fest, before last year's rule-change bobad used to post both as bobad and as an anonymous guest, the latter generally in the hope that we wouldn't spot that it was him hurling his insults from below the parapet. He claimed that it was so that we would debate the point, not attack the man. That's a bit ironic when one considers that almost all his posts below the line are man-attacks... anyway, due to that the comparative posting figures, a red herring in any case, may be a bit closer than stated. |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: michaelr Date: 18 Jul 17 - 08:22 PM What I don't get is why all of you that get into the same old shit-slinging contests over and over again on multiple threads would WANT to keep doing that. It's abundantly clear that you're never going to convince the other side to your point(s) of view. I've thought for a long time that the BS section should be closed down, or at least restricted to disallow political and religious discussion. The forum would be better for it. I first came here for information on folk songs, which has been plentiful, and have found occasion to contribute, which pleases me. The BS section has mostly interested me for the recipes shared (I remember with particular fondness the effort to recreate a certain BBQ sauce). All the shouting about politics seems to me to be a huge waste of time and energy. I live in a country that has chosen Donald Trump as its leader, but I know better than to argue with those who support him. I don't know about you all, but I would think you could find better things to do. |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: keberoxu Date: 18 Jul 17 - 08:28 PM Michaelr, I bow to you. You said what I am too chicken to say. |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Steve Shaw Date: 18 Jul 17 - 08:30 PM I'll talk about BBQ sauces any time. Or wild flowers. Or my hols in Spain and Italy. Or how tight-fisted Yorkshiremen are. You start, I'll follow. I'm a joiner-in far more than I'm an instigator. As for troublesome threads, just ignore. |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Jim Carroll Date: 18 Jul 17 - 08:47 PM "Definition of Anti-Semitism" "Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the state of Israel. " How does this square with describing all criticism of Israel "Jew hating or "Antisemitic" ? By doing so, you automatically "hold Jews collectively responsible for actions of The State of Israel" Would appreciate an answer that doesn't include the usual "Jew hater" response Every time you do so you become an antisemite by your own quoted definition Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Steve Shaw Date: 18 Jul 17 - 09:04 PM That probably isn't going anywhere in this thread, Jim. Leave him to it. Looking at his contributions to this thread so far he looks like a miserable and obsessive misfit who doesn't know how to join in. May he stand alone. |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Jeri Date: 18 Jul 17 - 09:09 PM Personally, I think some of the thread-pissers ought to be relegated to music threads only for a while. That might cut down on the repetitive garbage. Wondering how much trouble I'll get in... |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Greg F. Date: 18 Jul 17 - 09:17 PM That's OK, Jeri- The All-Powerful Wizard Joe The Hypocrite gets his kicks throwing his weight around, taunting lesser mortals and getting away with bullshit that would get others - well, others who aren't the chosen few he adopts and protects- suspended or banned. As I know from sad experience. I know it, you know it. I suspect even Max knows it. Just let Ol' Joe get on playing his games. |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: olddude Date: 18 Jul 17 - 09:29 PM The only thing I know is too many really good people that I enjoyed talking with have left mudcat.. It is very sad that in a pond so small as this forum we always have tobeat each oother over political stuff.. And all of the political guys could care less about any of us. Pretty silly don't you think. What political officials have helped any one of us... Exactly none.. Couldn't care less if we support them or hate them yet we will lose friends over them.. Really silly I think but what do I know |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Joe Offer Date: 18 Jul 17 - 10:27 PM The fraud thing? It has to do with his strange presence in the "Brigades" thread. I was duly puzzled about how he could have so much to say in that thread, without ever saying anything about Spain or Franco or the Brigades or the Spanish Civil War. I had seen him do that in a few other threads, goading on the battle without ever actually saying anything at all about the topic of discussion. A fraud, indeed. Cleverly evasive, perhaps; but a genuine fraud. Seems to me there was another fraud years ago. Remember him, Jeri? The guy was convinced that there were Nazis posting at Mudcat. Trouble was, they didn't post enough. So, he logged out and posted Nazi stuff anonymously. Then he logged in again and got on his white horse and did battle against his own anonymous posts. But I don't want to get into that stuff. I don't see any way to settle all the conflicts here, and that's not my job. I'd just like to see actual, interesting discussion. I find all the petty squabbling to be downright boring. But hey, I'm done with Greg the Fraud. He likes to manipulate people, but doesn't really have much of substance to say. I called his bluff, and I see he's actually talking about issues in this thread. I'm through with Jew-hating, too. It got really boring. Jim, maybe you could take the hint before everybody falls asleep on you. I can't do anything about it. You can't do anything about it. Most likely, it will go away if you stop paying so much attention to it. Take two aspirin and call me in the morning. As for Jeri, I don't know what to do about her. Obviously, she's having a bad day. She'll get over it. No, come to think of it, maybe it's a bad week. She's been grouchy for a long, long time. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: punkfolkrocker Date: 18 Jul 17 - 10:38 PM If mudcat is any indication of what daily existence might be like... I really don't want to end up in an old folks care home... 😜 |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Joe Offer Date: 19 Jul 17 - 12:03 AM Dani has plans to build an Old Mudcatters Home next to her house in North Carolina. With her great cooking, we'd all be happy as clams. No need for endless battles. |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Stilly River Sage Date: 19 Jul 17 - 12:41 AM The Winner by Michael Cooney. Dedicated to each and every one of you. ♫ Good night, good night, good night ♫ (from a different Cooney song). |