BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat

Subject: BS: No-go subjects on Mudat
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Jul 17 - 04:11 AM

It appears that we have reached the point on this forum that when we choose "uncomfortable" subjects to discuss they are closed and we are told to "go and play" by the moderators.
I find this an extremely patonising attitude towards a group of adults by a bunch of faceless censors who have taken it upon themselves to 'Firewall' certain subjects because they cause dissension
We don't always behave ourselves as we should - true - that goes for all sides of the political and musical spectrum, but unless we are allowed to slug them out in the manner we see fit, there is little point of our being here
If any of us overstep the mark and indulge in bad behaviour , it is up to the moderators to warn us and, if we persist, have us removed from the thread and then the forum
On several occasions now, threads have been deliberately closed by trolls simply screaming hate-filled insults, "Jew hater" being a particular favourite - it has become a sure way to curtail uncomfortable discussion.
These hate-mailers are allowed to continue, thread after killed-off thread
Why - are these built-in ejector seats for when them upstairs decide we've said enough?
On our part, we seriously need to get a grip and moderate our own behaviour, but we need to be allowed to do so as adults.
The subjects that cause the problems are usually serious ones that concern us deeply and often passionately, but if we can't express ourselves fully on them, they become anodyne and pointless
There is a clause in the membership that suggests we behave politely and with respect to each other - if we all adhered to that one, I believe we can be trusted to behave responsibly without placing bounds on where we can take discussions.
A first step might be to give a final warning to the hate-poster who immediately reverts to "Jew hater" when he finds himself at a loss for an articulate response.
There are no "Jew haters" on this forum, or if there are, they have never made themselves known enough to have become a problem.
A final warning and then expulsion would clean out this particular Augean Stable
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat
From: Senoufou
Date: 18 Jul 17 - 04:33 AM

Well it isn't our Forum is it? It's run by the Moderators and they have every right to sort it out as they see fit. 'Their house, their rules' etc.
Also, as I see it, sometimes the nastiness on a thread gets so appalling, the only thing to do is to shut the whole thread down.

One wants to encourage new members and posters, but imagine the reaction of someone new coming on here and seeing all the rude, insulting and disgraceful bickering, the political back-biting and personal insults etc. They'd probably shove off pronto and look for another site.

Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Jul 17 - 04:48 AM

It is our forum Sen - if it a discussion forum we need the democracy to discuss what we like in the manner we please
The moderators are there to moderate, not to dictate
Our job is to abide by the conditions of membership
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 18 Jul 17 - 05:02 AM

And from a different perspective, I've ceased to see the point in some threads.

I know who the main players will be before opening them and can predict who will agree with whom. Rather than resolution, they can turn to 1000+ posts of bile with no real winners. Those with entrenched positions will remain as such and as one thread closes, another starts as a continuation with no minds changed.

This has nothing to do with who I may or may not agree with on a particular issue nor is it an attempt to claim innocence in rows (I've had a few of my own…) It's just a feeling that the place would be better without a perpetual run of threads that can go nowhere nice.

I'm a fine one to talk but perhaps it would be better to focus on what we have in common, for some of us, eg, gardening below the line?

Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Jul 17 - 05:21 AM

1000+ posts of bile with no real winners

Yet someone regularly claims the victory :-)

Sorry, Jon, couldn't resist it. But you are right. We did once try to change some of the nastier threads into things we have in common such as gardening, food and travel but that got complained about as well. Some people just want to argue and, yes, it does take two to tango so that oft times includes me!

Not sure what the solution is but I do know that any thread such as this is doomed from the outset.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat
From: Mr Red
Date: 18 Jul 17 - 05:43 AM

Tango? - there is a better way!
Have you tried schotishe? Bouree? Maybe a touch of Zydeco?

We've said it so many times, "don't feed the trolls" but what do you call a troll who stands their ground and talks directly to the person, not the issue?

You close the thread. And IMNSHO the right way. When a dog has a bone - do you talk to him, or make the bone distasteful, or make it vanish?

The bone is not the issue, the brain controlling the jaw is the issue. Make him bite on his lip? Nah! make the bone disappear, every time. If it winds up the dog, the moderate win. If my thread got closed, I am chastised and rightly so. I am only human.

Mind you - it doesn't stop me winding up the moderators just a teensy weensy bit, until they modify the thread title! Mia culpa 😈

Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat
From: Stu
Date: 18 Jul 17 - 05:56 AM

"Well it isn't our Forum is it? It's run by the Moderators and they have every right to sort it out as they see fit. 'Their house, their rules' etc.
Also, as I see it, sometimes the nastiness on a thread gets so appalling, the only thing to do is to shut the whole thread down."

This. Go somewhere else if you don't like it.

Most threads below the line have become a complete waste of time, always ends up with the same old people making discussion impossible.

Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Jul 17 - 06:01 AM

Schotishe, Bouree and Zydeco do not make fizzy orange drinks...

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat
From: Mr Red
Date: 18 Jul 17 - 06:28 AM

they do if you drink the liquid first! 😎

Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 18 Jul 17 - 06:34 AM

I have not been here for a while. I think I will probably go away again. It looks as if the hate-filled right has won again.

Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 18 Jul 17 - 06:56 AM

Not sure what the solution is but I do know that any thread such as this is doomed from the outset.

Correct...

But am trying to think of a harder drink dance. I seem to remember "Hot Punch" in brief morris days for maybe Poulton Le Fylde? Youtube is confusing me at the moment - think this is the Oyster Girl/New Rigged Ship??? I've lost touch...

Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat
From: Senoufou
Date: 18 Jul 17 - 07:02 AM

Please don't go away again Richard. I was glad to see you'd returned on here after what seemed like a long absence. :)

It's difficult isn't it? The 'softer' threads have old biddies like me waffling on at length about cats, gardening or health. It must get boring for the more feisty ones among us.

Actually I feel very grateful to Max, Joe and the other Mods. They could easily just say, "Sod this for a game of soldiers!" close down the BS section, or the entire site, and go home to play music and relax.

I often smile to myself and wonder what the Keyboard Warriors are like in real life. I expect they're big softies underneath. If not, I'd be a bit scared to come across them in the pub. Chairs would soon be flying, especially as I dared recently to admit to voting Tory!

Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Jul 17 - 07:40 AM

There is a massive difference between voting Tory and doing your utmost to discredit everyone else, Eliza. While I cannot agree with your choice, it is your choice to make. As long as you don't start to believe that yours is the only valid viewpoint then we will always get on :-)

I agree about Richard too. You are right about the hate, Richard, but come back and make a stand against it. Please!

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat
From: Senoufou
Date: 18 Jul 17 - 07:46 AM

That's it in a nutshell Dave. We can all have different viewpoints (and how boring if we all thought the same about everything. There'd be nothing to discuss!) but there's no need for folk to get nasty, call each other names and insult those who differ.

My lovely, talented and clever niece is a card-carrying Communist. Her mum and I are Tories. We do have some...er...heated discussions, but we all find it interesting, not unpleasant. And the fact she's a Buddhist and a vegetarian adds spice to the chat. I wouldn't dream of insulting her, nor she me.

Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Jul 17 - 07:50 AM

Which brings us nicely back to Jim's opening post :-) No point in laying blame. No point in saying who is worse. No point in 'who started it'. It is who stops it that matters!

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat
From: bobad
Date: 18 Jul 17 - 08:43 AM

A final warning and then expulsion would clean out this particular Augean Stable

This is the aim of this little gang of bullies who have all but destroyed this forum by having driven off most of the regulars. Get rid of all those who oppose their ideologies so that they can remain free to indulge in their circle jerk of self righteousness without having to deal with dissenting voices that challenge them. It's too bad, this used to be a fun and friendly place until they took it over.

Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat
From: Greg F.
Date: 18 Jul 17 - 08:48 AM

Says the Troll-King. Unbelievable.

Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Jul 17 - 08:53 AM

See what I mean, Eliza?

:-(

Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Jul 17 - 09:09 AM

"This is the aim of this little gang of bullies "
No Bobad - is part of cleaning up all our acts
You have been screaming "Jew hater" for as long as I can remember
If you belive that is reasonable debate, you have no place on any forum or anywhere in civilised society
You have been warned consistently yet you persist
That is mob-chant, not honest respectful debate
We all get angry on occaion - you have developed you hate-postings as a form of suppressing debate
It has destroyed threads and if you aer allowed to persist it will destroy this forum in my opinion
THere are no "Jew haters" on this forum, there never have been and the common decency of most of the members ensure that there never will be
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat
From: MikeL2
Date: 18 Jul 17 - 09:25 AM

Hi

It's started again !!

Set my stopwatch ..........tic toc

Cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat
From: bobad
Date: 18 Jul 17 - 09:32 AM

You have been screaming "Jew hater" for as long as I can remember

And you have been screaming "Nazi", "storm trooper", "jack booter", "Islamophobe", "bigot", "racist", "fascist" etc. as long as I can remember.

And don't forget comparing Israel and Israeli policy to that of the Nazis is anti-Semitic and anyone who does that is an anti-Semite.

Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat
From: Pete from seven stars link
Date: 18 Jul 17 - 09:38 AM

I don't remember anyone calling Jew hater, but I do know there has been nasty talk by all sides . And to complicate things further , it don't matter how polite a poster might be , if one of an opposite view comments , they will be accused of being nasty just for having a different view.

Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Jul 17 - 09:50 AM

No I have been screaming nothing
I have used all thes tems very occaionally at the heigt of arguments when insults are being thrown about but I do not make it a knee-jerk response to anything, as you do
You actually made it your first post in the now closed thread on Israel " a chance for the Jew haters" - that has nor become a regular technique
I've already said we all need to clean upi our acts - you have described that as bullying - an indication that you have no intention of cleaning up yours.
Most of those terms are perfectly valid in arguments - "Islamophobe", "racist", "fascist" "bigot" being typical of those that are both clearly definable and debatable in context
I refuse to open the debate of definitions that have been made invalid by you and others by your selecting the bits that suit you and ignoring the bits that don't
Associating the actions of the Israeli Government is a defined example of antisemitism - you do that every time you scream "Jew hater" whenever someone criticises Israeli policy
If you attempt to pick-'n-mix your definitions they are automatically made invalid
Do a deal with you Bobad, you clean up your act and I'll cleean up mine
I have no problem with arguing calmly with those I disagree with as long as that argument is conducted in a civilised manner - so far, that seems to be beyond your capabilities - ask any humanitarian, liberal, reasonable member you have ever screamed "Jew hater" at
Enough is enough - you have long gonr beyond the pale
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Jul 17 - 09:50 AM

Disingenuous, Pete. If your views on evolution, and on the honesty of scientific endeavour in general, were to prevail widely they would cause enormous damage to science. The cause of science in schools in many parts of the US is seriously damaged by views like yours, which I regard as ignorant and seriously misguided, achieving ascendancy. I don't mind hearing views different to mine but when those views are uninformed and expressed in a manner dismissive and critical of the other side they are simply vexatious. And I think it's perfectly fine to say so. We are all grown-ups, you know.

Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat
From: Rapparee
Date: 18 Jul 17 - 09:59 AM

Aaand... they're off and running!

Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Jul 17 - 10:05 AM

I don't know if bobad is for real, or a role play constructed persona with sole aim of winding up over serious lefties and liberals...???

But I do know that bobad as presented here in our debates
is one of the most loathsome disruptive mudcatters I have ever encountered...

Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Jul 17 - 10:19 AM

It's perfectly clear that bobad has no place on this forum. Every intervention he makes below the line creates a hostile atmosphere. I'm sick of one mod in particular blaming the "mess" on the rest of us, even suggesting that we may after all be Jew haters (!) and pretending that nothing can be done because we respond. I can't imagine any decent human being failing to respond to being called a Jew hater, Joe Offer. If that behaviour isn't sanctioned by the people who run the forum then they can scarcely criticise anyone else's behaviour, because it doesn't get as bad as that. I'm beginning to suspect that the mod in question is actually enjoying this unseemly spectacle so that he can eventually turn the thing right round, making bobad look like the injured innocent he most definitely isn't, and childishly blaming the whole sorry mess on his usual suspects, disingenuously wringing his hands as he goes. I can't think of anything more downright despicable that bobad's throwing around of the term Jew hater at the merest hint of any standpoint on the Middle East he disagrees with. He wouldn't survive ten seconds in any pub I've ever been in with talk like that, and I only ever go into nice pubs. You can't mend him. His permanent removal would sweeten the atmosphere here immeasurably. And that's a promise.

Steve (lifelong campaigner against racism in all its guises and about as far removed from being a Jew hater as it's possible to be)

Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Jul 17 - 10:21 AM

No conspiracy there. Pfr and I cross posted.

Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Jul 17 - 10:26 AM

Steve, I disagree with your assessment of Bobad and Joe, and would say that your posts on political threads create a "hostile atmosphere" by your belligerence and nastiness to anyone who dares to disagree with you, and your gang of bullies who all turn on anyone who disagrees with any of you.

Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Jul 17 - 10:35 AM

Keith... yes that standardised right wing 'party line'.. decrying "the gang of lefty bullies"...!!!

That age old right wing ploy of trying to discredit and marginalise any left and progressive moderates opposition...


We know what your lot are doing... it's that obvious... 😣

Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Jul 17 - 10:37 AM

Keith
Nobody is trying to make this an argument
Bobad's behaviour has been specified and is beyond dispute - not even he has denied it; he justifies it by saying others behave the same
We all need to clean up our acts - including you
Please don't make this another war - lets all clean up our acts eh?
Bullies come in all shapes and sizes - "some rob you with a six-gun.....!!"
Jim Carrroll

Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Jul 17 - 10:42 AM

Cleaning up our acts would mean a damn sight more than just dropping the belligerence. A number of posters here have a deeply-ingrained habit of misrepresenting what other people say and trying to pull the wool over our eyes. There's a classic case of that going on right now in the Labour Party thread. Brace yourself if you're thinking of visiting. You sometimes have to ask yourself which comes first, the deliberate and frustrating dissembling or the shouting match...

Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat
From: robomatic
Date: 18 Jul 17 - 10:55 AM

Jim:


POT. KETTLE.

To the mods:

We ain't perfekt. But do the best you can and let the bleating go on. What is a bridge without a troll?

Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Jul 17 - 11:01 AM

Very helpful Robo - I can see you intend to make an effort - coming from a another "Jew hater" purveyor - pretty rich
Can we at least call a tuce and make an effort - if not, this forum is well and truely a dead parrot
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Jul 17 - 11:02 AM

I'll just add before I go out to the shops..

A healthy sense of humour is essential..

...especially self deprecating humour...

Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Jul 17 - 11:26 AM

nag carp kvetch and retch, hard ball complainers will always complain

BUT

I have a solution. It will create a dilution of the insults.

it will eliminate closures to avoid potential law suits.

The solution will reduce to jut one tory argument thread.

It will reduce the 187 Trump threads to one.

It will dilute the misgivings of consumers and moderators


&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&.

THE SOLUTION IS THE ONE "FATHER OF ALL POLITICS" Thread.

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&


If it is political it goes here.

If a separate political thread is started it will be closed!

WWIII threads can be an exception to instant closure but they won't live long anyway.

A mother of all BS is a kind and warm hearted to a point.
The Father of all Politics is like real fathers, more hard edged ,
and to a degree ignored. Insults from children will be far between many more posts and subjects. If you want to call each other nmes go to private messages if you must. Be warned there are laws to protect internet users that did not exist 15 years ago. US Laws will be obeyed.

Carp if you want but the solution of a Father of all polities is simplicity itself. The honor of founding the FATHER OF ALL POLITICS may go to Akenaton for all I care.

You have my idea mods and founders. Please give guidance and new rules if you wish to try this experiment with a separate announcement/

Replies to this idea re indeed welcome. A one person one vote may be helpful.
I am sure we cab share our toys in one sand box.

Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat
From: Pete from seven stars link
Date: 18 Jul 17 - 11:36 AM

I did not even mention evolutionism Steve , but since YOU did , I will reply to your idea that creation detracts from science by reminding you that most of the great scientists of yesteryear were creationists , and it did not hinder them one iota

Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Jul 17 - 11:46 AM

Name them. And the ones who weren't. You said most. So let's be having it.

I didn't mention evolution-ism either. The unhyphenated version of that word is not in my lexicon.

Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat
From: Greg F.
Date: 18 Jul 17 - 11:50 AM

by reminding you that most of the great scientists of yesteryear were creationists

Dear God In Heaven.............so to speak.

That's right pete, and before that they were shamans and witch-burners and flat-earthists and alchemists trying to change lead into gold.

Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Jul 17 - 11:59 AM

This looks like religion and not politics. They are both deadly but even a dog can tell the difference between the two.

Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat
From: robomatic
Date: 18 Jul 17 - 12:06 PM

Jim:

I've found your posts to be informative at times. Your repetitiveness in citing the Soviet screed of the thirties through sixties has dulled your perceptions of the present day. The recent thread going back eighty years to rescue some sense of purpose from the "International Brigades" is not your cause alone, so there are plenty of others seeking some sense of purpose out of bygone eras. All I do is point it out.

As to Israel, you are likewise repetitive and ALWAYS negative. You and your acolytes. You reveal yourselves by your posts, not by those who oppose you, blunt though they may be.

On a different level, you don't acknowledge it, but I've worked hard in my posts to actually talk to you. Look 'em over, I've expressed myself in effin' PARAGRAPHS. And you've responded with 'blasts' Sentences that look like spaghetti. You are spouting, not listening. You lack of self-awareness gives me pause. Your little hangers-on don't have much to say, they are just remoras waiting to feed on the angry scrappers you draw.

I haven't the power to do more than post into these threads. Others have obviously grown tired of the back-and-forth of blame and counter-blame. I try to shed more light than heat, but you repeat yourself ad nauseum.

You also seem to believe in having the last word. You are welcome to it. Unless the last word has a shred of wisdom, it simply reveals intransigence.

Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat
From: Jeri
Date: 18 Jul 17 - 12:26 PM

This meta thread is gonna get closed, but how to deal with pool pissers: I think a few of them should be allowed to post in music only.

Otherwise, there's an old proverb that ends with "the wold who wins is the one you feed". This is why only a handful of people post in BS these days. People don't want to play with the bad kids, bullies, and obsessive fuckwits when what they want to talk about is Doctor Who or recipes for cornbread or holidays or...you-name-it.

I'm out.

Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat
From: Joe Offer
Date: 18 Jul 17 - 12:37 PM

I usually stay out of the BS threads because they really are horrible, but every once in a while I dive in and see if I can sway the thing into making sense.

I tried that Saturday in the "International Brigades" thread, and I got in a whole peck of trouble. Hell, somebody even wrote a song about me. I used only logic and the truth. I didn't use my "delete" button at all, because I don't think it's fair to edit a thread if I'm participating.

It appears to me that there are well-intentioned people who see the BS Forum as the site of an epic battle between Good and Evil, and they're going to make sure that Good wins every time. There is no room for questioning, or for opposing opinions. If the Bad Guys speak, whatever they say must be objectionable, and must be beaten down.

It's a shame, but this necessity for Good to win over Evil, leaves no room for discussion. There's all sorts of interesting stuff that could be discussed about the International Brigades and the Spanish Civil War, but there's no room or time for that because the need for Good to win over Evil is all-important.

I wanted to talk in the "Brigades" thread about Franco and his obsession with the El Cid myth, but there was no room for that in the discussion. I wanted ask about Franco's popularity and how it was that he was able to rule for so long, but there was no room for that, either. I wanted to ask about the International Brigades and what motivated those untrained soldiers to travel to Spain to fight a war they probably couldn't understand. And there's so much more we could have talked about, if only people were willing to allow discussion, and questioning, and opposing views. And I wonder if it might be possible for a poster to be mistaken about something, without being beaten to a pulp by the dominant forces.

Take a look at the International Brigades thread, and take the time to analyze the dynamics of what went on there.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat
From: Joe Offer
Date: 18 Jul 17 - 12:46 PM

Oh, and it really makes discussion impossible when people bring their past squabbles over from previous threads. The Dominant Forces hadn't seen the "Jew Hater" debate finished to their satisfaction in previous threads, so they brought it over to the "Brigades" thread. I think that's what killed the "Brigades" thread, more than anything.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Jul 17 - 01:02 PM

"I've found your posts to be informative at times. "
And I yours - they are not the problem - it's the "Jew hater" invective that degenerated into mudslinging
"The Dominant Forces hadn't seen the "Jew Hater" debate finished to their satisfaction in previous threads"
And it never will be Joe until it is qualified or withdrawn and apologised for - and all the holier-than thou - nuffin' to do wiv me guv, postings in the world are not going to make one iota of difference.
That basic, totally unproven piece of obscenity (to those of us who care about the Jewish People rather than the regime that claims to represent them) is something that should not be allowed on these pages any more than any other slur should.
When it comes from a mod it becomes more unpalatable
This thread is rapidly dividing into those who want to change and those who wish to continue to extract their pound of flesh
As Jeri says, it's gonna get closed - pity
im Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat
From: Joe Offer
Date: 18 Jul 17 - 01:15 PM

I'm not moralizing here, Jim - I'm only saying what works and what doesn't. If you bring previous arguments and bad feelings into a different thread, it doesn't work.

Go to the "Brigades" thread and tell me who was the first person to make mention of "Jew Hater" there. Tell me the date and time of the post, and the name of the person who poste it. The rest of us saw that "Jew Hater" reference, and it didn't make any sense to us because we hadn't seen the previous argument.

And Jim, there's a longstanding principle in debate that precedes the Internet: If you have to refer to Nazi Germany to defend your point of view in a debate, you've run out of logic and lost the debate. If you refer to Nazi Germany in criticizing Jews or Israel, you've both lost the debate and said something anti-Semitic.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Jul 17 - 01:26 PM

"As to Israel, you are likewise repetitive and ALWAYS negative. You and your acolytes."

"Your little hangers-on don't have much to say, they are just remoras waiting to feed on the angry scrappers you draw."

"I try to shed more light than heat, but you repeat yourself ad nauseum."

Well, the first two extracts show what a failure you are when it comes to the third. Your posts are both superficial in content and condescending in tone. You are absolutely part of the problem. All heat, no light.

And it's ad nauseam, by the way.

Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Jul 17 - 01:33 PM

Joe - I don't think it's as simplistic as that these days...

whatever lies in the hearts of folk who choose a 'far right' path..
whatever names we give that 'dark force'..
their religion is immaterial.....

As a bloke with polish jewish ancestory on my mums side,
I accept that it is credible and justifiable to compare the extremes of far right Israeli politicians to 'nazi Germany'...

Certain person with names beginning with bob..

might then accuse me of being a self hating jew, but not even a real jew at that..
Therefore I must be an anti semite...????

Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat
From: akenaton
Date: 18 Jul 17 - 01:36 PM

The voice of reason, Joe Offer.

I doubt it will make any difference here though, too many people have too much of their ideology invested here to make rational thought an option.

Jim is simply a ranting dinosaur egged on by the little band of "acolytes"....I would call them something else and it rhymes.
He reminds me of "Il duce".....I could just see him addressing the proletariat from the balcony.....:0)

Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Jul 17 - 01:37 PM

"The rest of us saw that "Jew Hater" reference, and it didn't make any sense to us because we hadn't seen the previous argument."

What utter nonsense. It has been brought to your intention repeatedly, not least by me in private messages, and we have discussed both the expression and the detestable character of the person who USES the expression. In fact, I believe I've discussed it with three moderators. It's no use trying to turn it back on those of us who protest at the use of the term. The blame for the extended spat lies squarely with the person who USES it and with those of you who are reluctant to defend us from such vile nastiness. OK, you've made it abundantly clear that you don't like us. It's beginning to be clear that that is why you won't stop him. Take a minute and have a think. Think about how hateful the expression is when levelled against people who are NO SUCH THING.