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Lyr Req: Up the long ladder and down the short....

Bryan WarErpoit@aol.com 16 Dec 99 - 06:11 PM
fulurum 16 Dec 99 - 07:05 PM
Mbo 16 Dec 99 - 08:10 PM
McGrath of Harlow 16 Dec 99 - 09:44 PM
Clinton Hammond2 17 Dec 99 - 01:10 PM
lohouse8 17 Dec 99 - 09:55 PM
Dani 17 Dec 99 - 10:23 PM
McGrath of Harlow 22 Dec 99 - 03:24 PM
SeanM 24 Dec 99 - 03:47 PM
GUEST,mjs 03 Mar 17 - 07:44 PM
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Subject: Up the long ladder.....
From: Bryan WarErpoit@aol.com
Date: 16 Dec 99 - 06:11 PM

Hi im new to this so be gentle... I love the Clancy brothers and Tommy Makem and on one of their live CD's Tommy says something like "Up the long ladder, down yhe Short rope; To hell with king Billy and God bless the Pope......" But I can't make out the rest any help with that and/or history of it would be most appreciated thanks!!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Up the long ladder.....
From: fulurum
Date: 16 Dec 99 - 07:05 PM

up the long ladder down the short rope
the hell with king billy and god bless the pope
if that doesn't do
we will tear him in two
and send him to hell with his red white and blue


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Up the long ladder.....
From: Mbo
Date: 16 Dec 99 - 08:10 PM

What a great song! I'd sure like to hear all the lyrics!

--Mbo


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Up the long ladder.....
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Dec 99 - 09:44 PM

Well it depends which side of the street the kids are playing on.

So the Protestant version I gather goes like this:

"Up the long ladder and down the short rope,
God Save King Billy and to Hell with the Pope
King Billy's in Heaven; The Pope is in Hell
Helping the Devil to ring the bell.
If that doesn't do
We'll cut him in two
And send him to hell with the Red White and Blue"

And the Catholic version is the other way round. I wonder which came first? It's a remarkable example of collaborative bigotry.

I've only heard it as a chant rather than a song. I suppose it'd fit to Liliburlero, sometimes known as "The Protestant Boys". That makes me think that the Catholic version is probably the earlier of the two, as a response to "The Protestant Boys."

There'll be a day when the bigotry has gone, and this kind of thing will be jolly folklore. Orange parades will be like Morris dancing.

that's not all that fanciful either - down in Lewes in Sussex on 5th November they still burn an effigy of the Pope, but from what I've heard it's now seen as a joke and not a threat by Catholics down there. And most bonfire's these days are seen as a celebration of Guy Fawkes "the only man to enter Parliament with honest intentions."


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Up the long ladder.....
From: Clinton Hammond2
Date: 17 Dec 99 - 01:10 PM

It's also quoted in a Frank Herbert book called "The White Plague"... A damn good read for you speculative fictions buffs out here...


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Up the long ladder.....
From: lohouse8
Date: 17 Dec 99 - 09:55 PM

The rest of it goes ..

"If that doesn't do, we'll tear 'im in two, And send 'im to hell with his red, white and blue."

Unless, I am badly mistaken. Cheers!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Up the long ladder.....
From: Dani
Date: 17 Dec 99 - 10:23 PM

"Collaborative bigotry"!? I love that. Did you make it up? I'll be using it this week (provided it is not copyrighted, or trademarked, or you'll come over and beat me up if I do...)

I well remember learning to sing this as a kid. Irish mother/grandfather probably thought it was darn patriotic and cute. Won't tell you which was which, darlin'... but we did wear black ribbons on our shamrock pins on St. Patrick's Day.

Dani


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Up the long ladder.....
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Dec 99 - 03:24 PM

I mentioned the Lewes 5th November bonfire, where they still burn the pope, but it seems to have lost it's sectarian edge (though I might like confirmation of that before I risk going down there on 5th November)

I came across this in Bob Copper's book Song for all Seasons , about the celebrations in Lewes:

A long procession, consisting mostly of the younger element, would march all round the village carrying aloft flaring naphthalene torches. Singing, shouting, banging on doors and ringing bells, the merry gang would make their way, tearing the soft black velvet of the night into shreds with brilliant flashes and violent explosions from squibs, Chinese crackers, and especially "Lewes Rousers" which were renowned locally for the violence of their detonations. As they proceeded they would from time to time chant out in unison:

Remember, remember the Fifth of November
The Gunpowder Treason and Plot,
I see no reason why Gunpowder Treason
Should ever be forgot.
Guy Fawkes it was his intent
To blow up the King and his Parliament,
With four score barrels of powder below
To blow old England overthrow.

But by God's Providence he was catched
With a dark lantern and burning match.
Holler boys, holler, boys, make the bell ring
Holler, boys, holler, boys, God Save the King.

A tuppenny loaf to feed old Pope
and a penn'orth of cheese to choke him,
A pint of bee to rinse it down,
And a faggot of bush to burn him.

Burn his body right off his head
And then we'll say old Bogey's dead.

The point about this is that English people often look scornfully at Ireland, and imagine that the bigotry and the sectarian is something peculiarly Irish. If anything it's an import from England, that has lingered on after it's largely (not completely) died away over here.

Roll on the day when the Orange Parades and all that will just be folklore and a general occasion for celebration.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Up the long ladder.....
From: SeanM
Date: 24 Dec 99 - 03:47 PM

To be fair, Guy Fawkes day isn't specifically related to Ireland, more than the fact that the "Irish Problem" would have been one of many reasons that motivated a plot of regicide...

As far as becoming folklore, Mr Fawkes and his ill-fated plans have already become that. I am in California, and have a few English ex-pat friends who still throw a Guy Fawkes day gathering... they really had no idea of the entire history behind the event until I referred them to a bit of research...

Such, as with all holidays, the original meaning becomes obscured behind the urge to celebrate.

M


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Up the long ladder and down the short....
From: GUEST,mjs
Date: 03 Mar 17 - 07:44 PM

The "short rope" reference. See the Wikipedia article on Execution Dock in London, the execution place for persons convicted in the Admiralty courts of capital offenses. "With a particular cruelty reserved for those convicted of acts of piracy, hanging was done with a shortened rope. This meant a slow death from strangulation on the scaffold as the drop was insufficient to break the prisoner's neck. It was called the Marshal's dance because their limbs would often be seen to 'dance' from slow asphyxiation."


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