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BS: Male fertility down 50% and falling

Donuel 26 Jul 17 - 09:00 PM
ChanteyLass 26 Jul 17 - 09:34 PM
JHW 27 Jul 17 - 04:00 AM
Senoufou 27 Jul 17 - 04:23 AM
Iains 27 Jul 17 - 04:26 AM
Senoufou 27 Jul 17 - 04:26 AM
Jos 27 Jul 17 - 04:43 AM
Stu 27 Jul 17 - 05:11 AM
Iains 27 Jul 17 - 06:18 AM
Senoufou 27 Jul 17 - 06:25 AM
Donuel 27 Jul 17 - 06:32 AM
Will Fly 27 Jul 17 - 08:04 AM
Donuel 27 Jul 17 - 08:46 AM
Shakey 27 Jul 17 - 08:59 AM
bobad 27 Jul 17 - 09:24 AM
saulgoldie 27 Jul 17 - 09:40 AM
frogprince 27 Jul 17 - 10:36 AM
Donuel 27 Jul 17 - 11:04 AM
punkfolkrocker 27 Jul 17 - 11:30 AM
JennyO 27 Jul 17 - 04:21 PM
olddude 27 Jul 17 - 10:20 PM
Thompson 28 Jul 17 - 02:59 AM
Senoufou 28 Jul 17 - 05:58 AM
akenaton 28 Jul 17 - 09:38 AM
Vashta Nerada 28 Jul 17 - 09:52 AM
Donuel 28 Jul 17 - 10:18 AM
akenaton 28 Jul 17 - 10:40 AM
Donuel 28 Jul 17 - 08:02 PM
Donuel 28 Jul 17 - 08:15 PM
Helen 28 Jul 17 - 08:33 PM
Stilly River Sage 28 Jul 17 - 08:46 PM
Donuel 28 Jul 17 - 09:36 PM

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Subject: BS: Male fertility down 50% and falling
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Jul 17 - 09:00 PM

I can think of literally 100 reasons for this but one word suffices.
Environment

link   http://time.com/4871540/infertility-men-sperm-count/


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Subject: RE: BS: Male fertility down 50% and falling
From: ChanteyLass
Date: 26 Jul 17 - 09:34 PM

Ah, but then there is this. http://nypost.com/2017/07/25/widow-of-slain-nypd-cop-gives-birth-to-baby-girl/


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Subject: RE: BS: Male fertility down 50% and falling
From: JHW
Date: 27 Jul 17 - 04:00 AM

A man took his sperm count sample jar back to the doctors. "Sorry doctor but its no good, I tried with my right hand and my left; my wife tried even with her teeth in, next door tried with both hands"
'Next Door!'
"Thats right doctor, we all tried our best but no-one could get the lid off"


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Subject: RE: BS: Male fertility down 50% and falling
From: Senoufou
Date: 27 Jul 17 - 04:23 AM

The article I read yesterday (Guardian) stated that fertility levels in African men (in Africa of course) didn't show a fall.

The proposed causes in the Western world include obesity, alcohol consumption, sedentary lifestyle, exposure to chemicals in plastics, endocrine disturbance due to traces of female hormones in drinking water (from women's use of the Pill), none of which pertain particularly in Africa, where men remain as fertile as ever.

The societies I've seen in Senegal, Gambia, Ivory Coast and Ghana had very few obese men. Most were underweight if anything. They were very active, walking everywhere through necessity, carrying heavy things on their heads, performing hard physical labour, not sitting about much and so on. They had little spare cash for drink (I did see one or two very bad alcoholics, but this was rare) Very few of the women took the Pill. Water was usually drawn from wells, and not 'recycled' through purification plants as it is here. There was no pre-packed food covered in plastic. Their environment was filthy and germ-ridden with open latrines and so on, but actual chemical pollution was negligible I should say.
Women giving birth to ten or more babies in their lifetime was quite common. For example, my husband's late father sired sixteen children in total.

I relate all this because I think it's an interesting control population and may point us to the reasons behind Western men's growing infertility.


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Subject: RE: BS: Male fertility down 50% and falling
From: Iains
Date: 27 Jul 17 - 04:26 AM

From the daily wail so it is obviously false news, despite the origin of the studies being given.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-158463/Why-male-fertility-decline.html


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Subject: RE: BS: Male fertility down 50% and falling
From: Senoufou
Date: 27 Jul 17 - 04:26 AM

As a thought, wouldn't it be rather interesting to test African men who have lived in the West for several years, and their male relatives who still live in Africa?


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Subject: RE: BS: Male fertility down 50% and falling
From: Jos
Date: 27 Jul 17 - 04:43 AM

I saw this news flagged with the conclusion that the human race could become extinct, even though when reading or listening further it became clear that the drop in fertility only affected Europe, the US, Australia and New Zealand.

Interesting.


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Subject: RE: BS: Male fertility down 50% and falling
From: Stu
Date: 27 Jul 17 - 05:11 AM

Good. Too many people on this overcrowded planet. Population growth is unsustainable and as we're obviously incapable of regulating our numbers as a species, let nature do it for us.


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Subject: RE: BS: Male fertility down 50% and falling
From: Iains
Date: 27 Jul 17 - 06:18 AM

Stu. You   may be right but it is a rather provocative statement. However population growth coupled with climate change and resource wars will probably lead to a great culling-either by accident or design.


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Subject: RE: BS: Male fertility down 50% and falling
From: Senoufou
Date: 27 Jul 17 - 06:25 AM

It must be very sad for couples who ardently wish for a baby and cannot conceive. Must cause a lot of strain in relationships.

I personally think that the viruses will 'do away' with many of us one day. It only needs one to which we have no resistance at all, for which there is no treatment and which is always fatal...


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Subject: RE: BS: Male fertility down 50% and falling
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jul 17 - 06:32 AM

The change is over the last 40 years only.

It is not genetic. Senofou listed a few reasons.

I have a possible 90 more.


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Subject: RE: BS: Male fertility down 50% and falling
From: Will Fly
Date: 27 Jul 17 - 08:04 AM

I became infertile 30 years ago - when I decided to be snipped. It was an interesting experience...

There were two middle-aged ladies on the reception desk when I walked in to the clinic for the op. One said, "Take a seat, and the doctor will be along with two bricks in a minute."

When I was lying on the op table, a medical orderly painted my lower area yellow. When I asked what it was for, he said, "So nobody parks on you."

The doctor who performed the operation said to me, "I've just had a knock in my car - I think my hands have stopped shaking..."

all true. Comedians as well as clinicians.


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Subject: RE: BS: Male fertility down 50% and falling
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jul 17 - 08:46 AM

Comedy gold Will. I was told the doctor is taking his Claritan so he won't sneeze and chop off everything.


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Subject: RE: BS: Male fertility down 50% and falling
From: Shakey
Date: 27 Jul 17 - 08:59 AM

Population disaster / resource wars

Look up Hans Rosling, it'll cheer you up


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Subject: RE: BS: Male fertility down 50% and falling
From: bobad
Date: 27 Jul 17 - 09:24 AM

Signs point to an environmental factor...exposure to some hormone disrupting chemicals? Nobody really knows. We are exposed to thousands of chemicals every day, both natural and synthetic and it is impossible to unravel their effects.


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Subject: RE: BS: Male fertility down 50% and falling
From: saulgoldie
Date: 27 Jul 17 - 09:40 AM

In the title: "falling." What a curious choice of words. Or maybe I'm just stating the obvious?

Yeah, of course--lifestyle. Everything fits together. Balance between physical activity, healthy diet, social interaction (that does not involve fists, yelling, or ad hominems).

But even with the lower fertility more among Europeans and their relatives, the Earth can really not continue to support the growing population with all the resources, air, and water it needs to sustain itself. Most of the readers here will not live long enough to see "the game" in full swing.

Meanwhile, over here we have...a glass either half full, or twice the size it needs to be.

Saul


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Subject: RE: BS: Male fertility down 50% and falling
From: frogprince
Date: 27 Jul 17 - 10:36 AM

I was assured, "pre-snip", that the necessary shaving would be done by a male. The obvious implication was that that would make me feel more comfortable about it. Can't say that I really gave a rip either way, but I found that interesting.


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Subject: RE: BS: Male fertility down 50% and falling
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jul 17 - 11:04 AM

Some reasons listed so far even seem to include Gaia.
Although anything is possible some other reasons may be;

tighty whities
birth control pill hormones down the sewer can not be removed in water treatment
Atmospheric tests
high sugar intake
EMW,Micro wave,etc
Lead (from pipe or gasoline)
plastic (some resembles hormones chemically)
Hamburger
Milk
Vaseline?


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Subject: RE: BS: Male fertility down 50% and falling
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Jul 17 - 11:30 AM

In my 20s my count was acceptable enough for donating [7 quid per 'donation']

In my mid 30s when I was short of cash, it wasn't...

I haven't a clue how low it is now I'm nearing 60..

But I wear baggy cotton shorts and trousers and wash my tackle in cold water once every day..

Not that I've ever wanted my own kids, still don't..

It's just male pride that I'd like to keep the equipment working ok for as long as possible...

[despite all the prescription blood pressure tablets and other old bloke's meds]


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Subject: RE: BS: Male fertility down 50% and falling
From: JennyO
Date: 27 Jul 17 - 04:21 PM

I heard it might be mobile phones - or the tighty whities.

Meanwhile, here's a little ditty:

"Cuddle a Scotsman, he's Clydeside built,
Ask him what's worn beneath the kilt.
There's nothing worn south of the border,
My dear, it's all in working order!"


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Subject: RE: BS: Male fertility down 50% and falling
From: olddude
Date: 27 Jul 17 - 10:20 PM

All I can say is good, my Mrs and I don't need any more :)


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Subject: RE: BS: Male fertility down 50% and falling
From: Thompson
Date: 28 Jul 17 - 02:59 AM

Insecticides would be the main thing I'd blame. If they're killing off the bees, it wouldn't be surprising that they're killing off the sperm.

You'd have to work out what Europe, the Antipodes and North America have at higher levels that China, Africa, India and South America don't have; this cuts out GM and automobile pollution, for instance.

JHW, the version of your joke I heard included "…and the granny took out her false teeth to have a try with her gums" - for future reference!


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Subject: RE: BS: Male fertility down 50% and falling
From: Senoufou
Date: 28 Jul 17 - 05:58 AM

With regard to 'tighty-whities' I've just asked my husband this morning about this. (Since I haven't actually gone around Africa examining men's underpants) He tells me that most men there nowadays wear budgie-smuggler type underpants under their African clothes. So it would seem that's not a factor.

If I were a gambling lady, which I'm not, I'd put my money on alcohol consumption and obesity, plus sedentary lifestyle.


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Subject: RE: BS: Male fertility down 50% and falling
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Jul 17 - 09:38 AM

More to do with lifestyle I think, men are changing roles and that must have an effect on fertility......use it or lose it.

The media/celebrity world seems to be full of emasculated men and young folks seem to follow celebrity.

The whole "gender war" is a farce and a danger to the future of humanity.

Maybe that's why it's only happening in "liberal" countries.


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Subject: RE: BS: Male fertility down 50% and falling
From: Vashta Nerada
Date: 28 Jul 17 - 09:52 AM

Pure, unadulterated bullshit there, Akenaton. But I wouldn't expect any less.


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Subject: RE: BS: Male fertility down 50% and falling
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Jul 17 - 10:18 AM

Actually Ake is right for the wrong reason.
Studies verify that men who take on the task of child care have less testesterone.

SYSTEMIC PESTICIDES as Thomson mentions is the elephant in the womb.

Monsanto is half the problem

Trump has deregulated child brain cancer producing Pesticides , so they are coming back

France has eliminated the bee killing pesticide but the USA will only slow its use come 2021.


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Subject: RE: BS: Male fertility down 50% and falling
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Jul 17 - 10:40 AM

Thank you for your civility Don....but what did you mean by "for the wrong reason"?


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Subject: RE: BS: Male fertility down 50% and falling
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Jul 17 - 08:02 PM

I do not think liberalism is the reason or chief cause of male lowered fertility measured by sperm count and motility.

Rhetorically we all can try to take 'a bridge too far'. (movie reference)


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Subject: RE: BS: Male fertility down 50% and falling
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Jul 17 - 08:15 PM

In Scotland I bet droogs are a cause.
I hope pot is not a cause http://herb.co/2016/04/13/myth-about-marijuana-lowering-sperm-count-busted/


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Subject: RE: BS: Male fertility down 50% and falling
From: Helen
Date: 28 Jul 17 - 08:33 PM

If you haven't watched the futuristic speculative fiction (Social Sci-Fi) TV series of The Handmaid's Tale, then you need to know that one of the key premises of the story is that fertility levels are at a critical low so a dark social situation is dreamed up by people who have no empathy for individuals and their ability to choose their own lives.

Could The Handmaid's Tale happen today? For some women, it's already reality

Section of article referring to fertility:

"As for fertility, there could be a change in humanity's reproductive abilities on the horizon. Just today, for example, major findings from a scientific study Western men's sperm count in 'significant decline', 38-year study discovers showed a concerning trend for male fertility: sperm concentrations in Western men have declined by more than 50 per cent over the past 40 years.

"But as for women's fertility declining from the effects of industrial pollution - like it does in The Handmaid's Tale - Dr Luke Kemp isn't really convinced.

"Fertility potentially could be affected by industrial pollution, but to the degree that is predicted in The Handmaids Tale - probably not. There are some weak linkages shown between industrial pollution and things like genetic defects as well as infertility.

"We also have anecdotal evidence where communities situated close to an industrial pollution source have had increased genetic mutation and defects which have impacted fertility.

"But to be honest the idea that we're going to go from these kind of weak linkages to all of a sudden 50 % of the population becoming infertile seems highly unlikely. If you're looking at the most likely or problematic things in the future when it comes to ecological pressures, it's not infertility, it's food.

"I'd be much more worried about the collapse of fishing stocks than infertility."


And ake, I would expect nothing less and nothing more from you. How you pack so much illogical and irrational narrow-mindedness into so few words is astounding. (That's not a compliment, BTW.)

Helen


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Subject: RE: BS: Male fertility down 50% and falling
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Jul 17 - 08:46 PM

I didn't see the series, but I did read the book. Damned persuasive.

And if there was EVER a time for the faux-Latin phrase she discovers "Illegitimi non carborundum," this is that time.


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Subject: RE: BS: Male fertility down 50% and falling
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Jul 17 - 09:36 PM

Thank you Helen, I have read the reviews and now I am compelled to view the superior treatment of the combined issues in The Handmaids Tale.

I wrote a sci fi treatment of an infertility crises but it was fairly cavalier and similar to the later film Mimzy. Other comedic films on the subject have come from independent studios in France and America where the crises led to reduced populations of men as well as fertility. It is about time a serious treatment of the issue was made.

I have toured hot spots of cancer cluster regions going back as far as Love Canal. Zoar Valley is one of those hot spots in NY I have posted about. The political destruction of the EPA could not have come at a worst time.

Starting from 40 years ago the average reduction of fertility in all western men is 50%, not half of the men. The cause sounds like death from a thousand cuts but some reasons may be monstrous and ubiquitous.

The collapse of fishing stocks were known 30 years ago. Factory ships still trawl everything to death and only keep a few commercial stock.
Cod is tying to make a comeback.
I have heard the depletion is so bad around Japan that jelly fish have choked the ecological void.

I don't mean to carp for the halibut but our fate seems to be seal and we are diving into a shark decline.


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