Catholic 'Folk Mass' Music

Subject: Catholic Folk Music
From: GUEST,itinerant Church musician
Date: 02 Aug 17 - 03:09 PM

I am well aware of John Michael Talbot, the world-famous Catholic musician and songwriter.

I'm looking for resources for listening to, downloading or purchasing Catholic folk-music (as opposed to choral or orchestral) recordings.

I'm primarily in search of acoustic-guitar-based singalong type music from the 60's/70's heyday of the "folk Mass" movement.

Thank you for any help you can give and/or anecdotes about your participation in the music. :)

Subject: RE: Catholic Folk Music
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 02 Aug 17 - 05:18 PM

bread and fishes that liam clancy used to sing sounds nice and catholic.

i have never heard anything catholic since 1967 or so that i would want to sing except in spanish..they never got the memo that music had to henceforth be ugly...one exception..i iwll raise himup..that is ok.

what is really bad is they sometimes take nice tunes and right dorky words to them..like kelvin grove.

but what i really hate is the rhythms have been so strange..in the same song it could be 7/13 followed by 3/5 followed by 27/28..it is close to unbearable for me.

Subject: RE: Catholic Folk Music
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 02 Aug 17 - 08:42 PM

Hello, Guest.

I read your request, and the phrase "St. Louis Jesuits" came to my mind. Check out this info:

http://www.wow.com/wiki/St._Louis_Jesuits?.s_chn=82&s_pt=source2&s_gl=US&v_t=content

Note the section called Studio Recordings.

Subject: RE: Catholic Folk Music
From: Joe Offer
Date: 03 Aug 17 - 03:22 AM

Gee, I had a long treatise typed out, and I clicked the wrong thing and lost it. I may get around to posting it again later. In short, the two big publishers of "folk mass" music were FEL Publications (Friends of the English Liturgy, in Chicago) in the 1960s, and NALR (North American Liturgy Resources of Phoenix) in the 1970s.

Napster has a "folk mass playlist:

http://us.napster.com/blog/post/60s-catholic-folk-mass

Here's one at YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLYo0NzeSeTi8bG04d-wjp277usUUGwm6U

Also try http://www.folkmass.us/

Ken Canedo, who's a pretty good composer of current Catholic church music, has a Folk Mass page on his website:

http://www.kencanedo.com/folk_mass_composers.html

Gee, I remember all the words to most of these songs! Hope that helps.


-Joe-

Subject: RE: Catholic Folk Music
From: Long Firm Freddie
Date: 03 Aug 17 - 03:27 AM

Here's a link to a site that gives details about albums of Folk Mass music and also has a couple of pages of links to YouTube videos of the music:

Folk Mass

The introduction to the site indicates that the music was somewhat controversial at the time, and still is!


"1960's and '70s Favorite Folk Mass songs.

It doesn't take a lot of research to discover the subject of "Folk Mass" is a very polarizing one. How surprised I was when searching for the songs I fondly remembered singing at church to realize they are definitely not loved by all. There are forums where, to this day, they are argued over. I am not here to take sides one way or another. I just know that for me a lot of these songs continue to inspire me in my faith. Surely after almost 50 years we should all be able to appreciate them for what they were trying to do, help young people of the 1960s and 1970s worship in a distinctive way they could relate to."

LFF

Subject: RE: Catholic Folk Music
From: Jack Campin
Date: 03 Aug 17 - 04:58 AM

Where does the Taizé stuff fit in? Was it part of the same tradition or did they see their work as completely unrelated?

Subject: RE: Catholic Folk Music
From: Joe Offer
Date: 03 Aug 17 - 05:37 AM

Hi, Jack -
Jacques Berthier wrote music for the Taizé ecumenical community in France from 1955 until his death in 1994 - most of what is known as Taizé is the work of this one composer. I first became aware of Taizé music in the mid-1980s. It is used mostly for meditative prayer services, not for Mass - although a few Berthier hymns have made their way into hymnals used at Mass. I really like Berthier's simple chants. They lend themselves to beautiful harmonies.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: Catholic Folk Music
From: banjoman
Date: 03 Aug 17 - 06:08 AM

Been playing at Mass now for over 50 years and have a huge collection of "Folk" type music which includes various Mass Settings and Glorias. The problem now is that the powers that be recently decreed that all liturgical songs must adhere strictly to the original Latin translation. . This means that lots of our music is now not accepted. This mainly is in connection with Mass Settings, the Gloria and Credo.
We have always used Guitar and Banjo despite being told some years ago by one priest that the banjo is the instrument of the devil.
My response is "Why should the Devil have a monopoly on all the good tunes"
If anyone wants to get in touch about our music resources then let me know

Subject: RE: Catholic Folk Music
From: Joe Offer
Date: 03 Aug 17 - 06:17 AM

Well, considering how long it takes to tune a banjo, it may well be the "instrument of the devil..."

The devil made me say it. [grin]

-Joe-

P.S. I was upset about the effort to "Latinize" the Mass. They came up with some really convoluted language, and abandoned language that Catholics developed in common with the Lutherans and Anglicans and others. Rumor has it that Pope Francis may request a more literate translation. I hope he goes back to language that is common to many denominations.

Subject: RE: Catholic Folk Music
From: Rapparee
Date: 03 Aug 17 - 09:03 PM

Yes, Joe. I use "consubstantial" in conversation every day, as I'm certain everyone else does. If the Paul VI Mass was approved by a Saint, who are those in the Vatican who disapprove?

When I was in Kent, OH the Newman Center at Kent State University used songs from PP&M, the Billy Jack movies, and even "Jeremiah Was A Bullfrog." The music director was a grad student who was writing his own Mass. There was even ecclesiastical dance on occasion.

The current book we use ("Breaking Bread") has some "folk" songs in it as well as some that fall into the folk tradition. "Lord of the Dance" more to mind.

Subject: RE: Catholic Folk Music
From: Joe Offer
Date: 03 Aug 17 - 09:32 PM

I was in a number of "Folk Mass" groups through the 1960s and 1970s. Then id didn't do choir for a while because I was too busy holding kids during Mass.
But then I joined a choir in 1986 and have been in choirs continuously ever since. I joined the 1986 choir after it had somewhat settled down into conventionality. I understand that the choir was once named "Morning Train." I also heard that they used to regularly perform Hoyt Axton's Joy to the World. Not the bullfrog version, though. It's my understanding that Axton wrote these alternate lyrics:

Jeremiah was a prophet
Moses was a prophet too
Jesus was the Son of God & man
His love shines down on you....

Joy to the world
All the boys & girls now
Joy to the children of Galilee
Joy to you & me

Now, this is not something I have been able to verify....


They also sang a version of "All Through the Night" that had the line:

Christmastime is so appealing...

There's no accountin' fer taste sometimes, ya know.

Oh, yeah, and I did hear attempts to Jesusify "I Will Follow Him" that Little Peggy March recorded.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Catholic Folk Music
From: Phil Cooper
Date: 03 Aug 17 - 11:52 PM

I played guitar for the Lutheran folk services in high school, we borrowed a lot of songs from the Catholic Folk Mass. I recall playing a lot of suspended chords. The other guitarists didn't like me finger picking. I liked singing Sam Stone and Your Flag Decal Won't Get you In to Heaven Anymore more than I liked the songs used for the services, and would sing those at gatherings informally. Some of that may be why I'm more Unitarian/Universalist in my approach to life these days.

Subject: RE: Catholic Folk Music
From: Long Firm Freddie
Date: 04 Aug 17 - 03:29 AM

"Oh, yeah, and I did hear attempts to Jesusify "I Will Follow Him" that Little Peggy March recorded.

-Joe-"

Not necessarily a bad thing: Sister Act

LFF

Subject: RE: Catholic Folk Music
From: Joe Offer
Date: 04 Aug 17 - 03:47 AM

[Sigh] Yeah, LFF. I DID like Sister Act and I'm disappointed that I had to miss our community production of the show this year. The sisters from the motherhouse loved it.

But no, not for performance at Mass. I had too much liturgy training to let one like that go through.

You should hear the song requests we get at funerals.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Catholic Folk Music
From: CupOfTea
Date: 04 Aug 17 - 09:33 AM

In my Midwestern Catholic 50s-60s youth, the one nearly universal album at camps, grade school, high school was the Medical Mission Sisters' "Joy is like the Rain" I still sing songs from that, 50 years later (love the title song, "Spirit of God" inspired a piece of artwork, and I worked up "Zaccheus" for VBS)

Though many of the religion-flavored folk songs sung in years of Catholic overnight camp were shared by the non denominational day camp repertoire (You can't get to heaven, Joshua Fit the Battle of Jerico, all the songs about Noah & the ark, wade in the water & lots of spirituals, Michael row the boat, Kumbaya, etc) there was a Catholic version of those slim World Around Music songbooks that we used at CYO camp. Hymns in the common Christian cannon had the Catholic set of lyrics (though I was an adult before I realized the "same" hymn had denominational variants) I still can call up the memory of a couple hundred girls singing "Salve Regina" -in Latin, of course- in the evening by the light of a campfire. There was a whole section of "Seasonal Hymns to Our Lady" as well in the beat up, coverless one I still have. I also remember learning the "Jamaican Lord's Prayer" there, even though it contained the Protesrant ending.
There was lots of Ray Repp' s "Allelu" "They'll know we are Christians" - can't think of the Jesuit who wrote a batch of songs popular then - and of course, "Dominique" which I couldn't sing now, because I know how badly I'd be mangling the French.

This was a fun trip down memory lane to dig out those memories!
Joanne in Cleveland, still culturally Catholic after all these years

Subject: RE: Catholic Folk Music
From: Rapparee
Date: 04 Aug 17 - 10:12 PM

Then there was the "Amen" from "Lillies of the Field."

Subject: RE: Catholic Folk Music
From: Joe Offer
Date: 04 Aug 17 - 11:24 PM

Miriam Therese Winter ("Joy Is Like the Rain") of the Medical Mission Sisters is still going strong. She still composes, and she's a theology professor at the interdenominational Hartford Seminary, a school with Congregationalist roots. I heard her speak at the California convention of Call to Action (a bunch of us Catholic renegades), and she was really something. We have at least a couple threads on her music. I used a lot of her songs for teaching kids - they loved the songs.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: Catholic Folk Music
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 05 Aug 17 - 02:03 AM

What is the difference between catholic folk music and protestant folk music or any other music ? I do not understand why there should be any differences unless there are specific songs about catholic subjects.

I'm an atheist, I play folk music from anywhere, particularly England, Ireland, Scotland and the USA, none of which seems to me to have any religious significance, is this ' atheist ' music ?

baffled, Dave H

Subject: RE: Catholic Folk Music
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 Aug 17 - 03:40 AM

Well, Dave, the thread title is a bit awkward and would have been better titled "Folk Mass Music," but we generally leave threads with the title they were started with unless the title is totally unclear. They're talking about folk-style songs written or used for liturgy. Very little of it was what most of us would call "folk," but most of the songs had three chords or fewer. Some of it was corny, but it made Mass fun for a change. It was mostly written for Catholics (Sydney Carter fans might disagree), but many denominations used it.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: Catholic Folk Music
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Aug 17 - 06:00 AM

The Monks of the Weston Priory have been writing and recording their own music for decades.
http://westonpriory.org/

Subject: RE: Catholic Folk Music
From: DMcG
Date: 05 Aug 17 - 06:14 AM

An anecdote, as requested. I got married in 1978, and it was the first wedding in that church (and for any of the guests) where the music was all "folk mass', played by with guitars and flute (and a bodhran!)
It was also the first wedding anyone had been to where my wife and I stood on opposite sides of the priest during the consecration, rather like a concelebrated mass (which it wasn't, of course)

Most people liked it. Most thought we were a bit odd. Nothing changed there, then.

Subject: RE: Catholic Folk Music
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 05 Aug 17 - 07:26 AM

Thanks Joe, all is clear.

Dave H

Subject: RE: Catholic Folk Music
From: GUEST,Desi C
Date: 11 Aug 17 - 02:26 PM

Catholic Folk Music, as a term it rates right alongside Muslim Stand Up Comedy!

Subject: RE: Catholic Folk Music
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 11 Aug 17 - 03:33 PM

Nice one Desi.

Dave H

Subject: RE: Catholic Folk Music
From: GUEST,Paul Burke
Date: 11 Aug 17 - 06:04 PM

I see that shite Hanson hasn't changed his spot. Muslim stand up comedy?

Back in the 60s, our local Catholic church (Salford, UK) had a talented young composer who wrote a folky Christmas carol called Star O Star, a nice floaty thing if a bit cliche'd - well he was young- and it was recorded, sold as a 45, and played every Christmas till the PP moved on. Despite emailing the church I haven't been able to find a copy of it.

Subject: RE: Catholic 'Folk Mass' Music
From: Joe Offer
Date: 11 Aug 17 - 06:29 PM

The thread title has always bothered me. Since our thread originator hasn't come back, I'm going to take the liberty of changing the thread title to Catholic 'Folk Mass' Music, which is somewhat less misleading.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: Catholic 'Folk Mass' Music
From: GUEST,John in Hamilton
Date: 11 Aug 17 - 07:31 PM

We're those hymns "All That I Am", and "Make me a Channel of your Peace", of the folk-mass era? I remember these from childhood. I remember the name Sebastian Tenple having some authorship and I also remember something of a legal squabble within the church in recent decades about the use and reprinting of the works?

Subject: RE: Catholic 'Folk Mass' Music
From: Joe Offer
Date: 11 Aug 17 - 08:20 PM

Hi, John -
F.E.L. Publications (Friends of the English Liturgy) in Chicago was the first publisher in the U.S. to come out with a lot of music for "folk masses." Their Hymnal for Young Christians (1966) was very successful. But lots of new music kept coming out, and parishes published their own mimeographed hymnals with music from FEL and other publishers. FEL sued many Catholic dioceses, and won. Trouble is, many parishes didn't want to do business with FEL anymore, and the company went out of business. I've given information above about OCP and GIA and WLP, the next generation of music publishers - they're still in business.

South African Sebastian Temple (1928-1997) carried into the second generation of "folk mass" composers. I think that his two best-known songs were "Prayer of St. Francis" (Make Me a Channel...) and All That I Am.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Catholic 'Folk Mass' Music
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Aug 17 - 08:36 PM

Thanks for the info Joe!

Subject: RE: Catholic 'Folk Mass' Music
From: GUEST,the op
Date: 11 Aug 17 - 10:32 PM

I've been back to read, just not to comment. Thanks for clarifying a pre-morning-coffee attempt at a thread title, Joe. :)

Great suggestions!

Subject: RE: Catholic 'Folk Mass' Music
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Nov 18 - 04:04 PM

Does anyone remember a folk song at mass with the words 'come follow in the refrain?

Subject: RE: Catholic 'Folk Mass' Music
From: keberoxu
Date: 23 Nov 18 - 07:24 PM

I particularly like the mariachi mass musical settings.
The Spanish-speaking choirs at the churches have a great time with the liturgy in this form, fitting in Spanish-language songs which,
as with the English-language music Joe Offer describes,
were often composed/arranged/altered
to fit into the liturgy
(as in a lovely waltzing song while the Eucharist is distributed,
'Altísimo Señor').

The choirs need not have brass accompanying them, although it happens;
one of my favorite Spanish-service church choirs
relies on an accordion with multiple guitars and
either a mariachi bass or a conventional double-bass viol.
And they make a joyful noise indeed.

Subject: RE: Catholic 'Folk Mass' Music
From: Joe Offer
Date: 24 Nov 18 - 01:05 AM

Hi, Guest at 4:04 PM: I don't recall the song myself. I looked through a pile of folk Mass hymnals, and didn't find it. Recall anything else from the song?
-Joe-

Subject: RE: Catholic 'Folk Mass' Music
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Nov 18 - 05:44 AM

Would the O'Riada masses fit in here?

Subject: RE: Catholic 'Folk Mass' Music
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Nov 18 - 08:15 PM

Generally speaking "folk" in this context tends to mean a couple of guitars. With us, the hymns we use might be whatever comes up. Actually the only one's I'd count as part of a folk tradition tend to be the old ones mostly from the 19th century, where you see people put down the hymn books and sing the words they already know.
Gradually more of the newer ones get accepted and become part of the tradition.

I wish we were up to doing O'Riada.

Subject: RE: Catholic 'Folk Mass' Music
From: Joe Offer
Date: 26 Nov 18 - 08:48 PM

Here's a beautiful instrumental recording of Mise Eire by Sean O'Riada:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGPe9qeN_VY

Guess I wouldn't call it "folk Mass," but it sure is beautiful - and I loved the photographs.

Here's a recording of a different Mise Eire Composed by Patrick Cassidy with vocals that I suppose are in Irish:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LqWeydplUo

Subject: RE: Catholic 'Folk Mass' Music
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 27 Nov 18 - 03:19 AM

That was me above, by the way.

'Mise Eire by Sean O'Riada': Mise Eire means 'I am Ireland' it is music he composed for the movie of the same name. It has nothing whatsoever to do with his masses.

Try Sean O Riada - Ceol An Aifrinn / Aifreann a CD set with his music for the Mass.


Some here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPE7rKaNYHs

---

Ooops! Thanks for setting me straight, Peter. -Joe-

Subject: RE: Catholic 'Folk Mass' Music
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 27 Nov 18 - 03:53 AM

I'll add this :

The Masses of Seán and Peadar O'Riada (book)

Subject: RE: Catholic 'Folk Mass' Music
From: vectis
Date: 27 Nov 18 - 04:47 PM

Misa Criolla and Missa Luba were going the rounds in the early 1970s. I think David Fanshaw had a hand in one of them.

Subject: RE: Catholic 'Folk Mass' Music
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Nov 18 - 09:51 PM

The best folk masses I've ever heard are the ones in Zimbabwe and Botswana and other African countries. Check them out on YouTube.