BS: G.B. and N.I.?

Subject: RE: BS: G.B. and N.I.?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 22 Aug 17 - 12:05 PM

we have no domination over you. the vast majority of English people just want you stop to giving yourselves excuses for acting badly. there are dozens of towns in England and Scotland where we could be rioting and bomb chucking from the way we've been treated by central government, but most people realise - the way forward is to stop examining the entrails of the past and make something of the future.

the troops weren't there until things kicked off, and no one wanted to be there.

if we did dominate you, the first thing we'd do is get you to stop insulting and provoking each other. some chance

the other blokes fault and the cops have got it in for me. yeh sure - get in the van!

Subject: RE: BS: G.B. and N.I.?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Aug 17 - 11:40 AM

"expired when the old firm went out of business."
Tell that to the Peace Marchers that were stoned with the assistance of the police
Tell the victims of Bloody Sunday
Tell that to the victims of the UVF (assisted bt the British Security Forces)
Some progress has been made since then but Brexit has put a stop to that one
You people still have to respond to the point - no country should have domain over another - certainly not since the Empire went belly-up
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: G.B. and N.I.?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 22 Aug 17 - 11:16 AM

to be honest Jim, I think it's you that hasn't realised the British Empire went out of business and went into flogging double glazing a while back.

I'm sorry but the guarantee of a sympathetic hearing on your tales of evil repression expired when the old firm went out of business.

The service depot has closed, and not before time.

There is a users website for all for people who are attached to using the old stuff.

Subject: RE: BS: G.B. and N.I.?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Aug 17 - 09:59 AM

"'little' matter out of a discussion on whether they wish to be unified?"
No more than ignoring the fact that it appears that, put to the vote, most of them now do.
That aside - a section of a country can't 'vote' to be under another nation.
Partition was never put to the vote - it was forced through at gunpoint
Where is your consensus there?
What happened after partition removes any claim to democracy
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: G.B. and N.I.?
From: Raggytash
Date: 22 Aug 17 - 09:12 AM

If in the Republic 2/3rds would want to unite and allowing that not all 6.3 million people could choose, I would take a conservative guess that roughly 65% of people could voice an option, that is over the age of 18.

65% (approximately) of 6.3 million is near enough 4.1 million.

Of that 4.1 million 65% would want a united Ireland, that is 2.6 million.

Now the population of Northern Ireland is approximately 1.8 million.

You do the maths

Subject: RE: BS: G.B. and N.I.?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Aug 17 - 09:03 AM

"Here it is again,"
he last survey on the question of a United Ireland on your list was in 2014
The latter chart shows those in favout of a border poll - to quote
Respondents were not asked how they would vote in such a poll.[52][53] yet you continue to inist there is a majority against a United Ireland - how stupidly dishonest can you get
All your link shows is how positions have changed radically in three years - just as they have been changing since the first referendum
What the **** are you7 trying to prove Keith - that Britain should still retain the right of Empire over its former colonies?
"who want the North to join them."
That phrase in itself, is dishonest politicking
"join" who?
Irealand is Ireland and the Irish are the Irish.
The people of Ireland want the six stolen counties back - they aren't looking for members, like a golf club.
Your jingoistic ignorance appears to know no bounds.
The only reason that the six counties remained part of Britain was that economically, it suited many people that it should do so
That is no longer the case
Like Scotland, the Six Counties stand to come off very badly out of Brexit, both in terms of trade and in respect to the Peace Process.
Despite yours and Terry the Tosser's promises, Ireland is quite likely to end up with a hard border and all that means for trade
"I am sure we would all vote to be rid of them."
We know well your view of foreigners Keith - I'm sure you would
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: G.B. and N.I.?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 22 Aug 17 - 08:49 AM

Jim,
From: Jim Carroll - PM
Date: 22 Aug 17 - 07:57 AM

"it doesn't clarify what this 'United Ireland' would be."
That is surely up to the Irish people to decide?

I fully agree that it is for the Irish to decide.
But isn't it a little disingenuous to leave that 'little' matter out of a discussion on whether they wish to be unified?

Subject: RE: BS: G.B. and N.I.?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Aug 17 - 08:37 AM

I am sure we would all vote to be rid of them.
I certainly would.

Subject: RE: BS: G.B. and N.I.?
From: Kampervan
Date: 22 Aug 17 - 08:34 AM

I wonder if we could have a vote on the mainland to say whether we still want NI to be part of GB or not?

Subject: RE: BS: G.B. and N.I.?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Aug 17 - 08:33 AM

Jim,
You got that wrong Jim."No I did not - you were given a comprehensive article from 'The Journal' which said exactly what I have said

I linked you to the full results of a number of surveys.
Here it is again,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Ireland#Public_opinion

That latest survey appears to show a majority in the Republic who want the North to join them.

That still would leave a majority in the whole island against, and more to the point a large majority against in the North itself.

Should they be forced against their will?
Supposing many did decide to resist, as previous experience would strongly suggest?

Subject: RE: BS: G.B. and N.I.?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Aug 17 - 07:57 AM

"it doesn't clarify what this 'United Ireland' would be."
That is surely up to the Irish people to decide?
The problems that have arisen in the last century were caused by a foreign power imposing conditions from outside
The days when that was the practice went with the Empire.
Morally and logically, any referendum should include the entire population of the Island of Ireland - the six counties state was an artificially created one in order to suit a majority rather than the population as a whole - that's what brought about so many deaths in 'The Troubles' - caused by a deprived minority dominated by a belligerent administration
Brexit has brought the question of a United Ireland into the limelight again - probably the only positive thing to come from the increasingly shambolic decison
Not even the Republic's politicians are in the mood to compromise now
Wake up time for a dead Empire
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: G.B. and N.I.?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 22 Aug 17 - 07:08 AM

Thanks Jim, an interesting link.

As you say, it shows a 2/3 majority for a united Ireland (at present). That's clear enough.
Apart from a brief comment about the number of people in 'the North' who wish to remain in the EC, it doesn't clarify what this 'United Ireland' would be.
Would the Republic join Northern Ireland as part of the UK, or would Northern Ireland become part of the Republic and therefore part of the EC?

The closest the article comes to quoting the question doesn't seem to address this point:
Asked how they would vote if a referendum was held tomorrow, 65% of the sample electorate said they would vote in favour of a united Ireland.

Cheers
Nigel
(looking forward to Dublin 2019 The Dublin Worldcon)

Subject: RE: BS: G.B. and N.I.?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Aug 17 - 06:16 AM

22 August
Now please go away and take your 'Little England Colonialism with you
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: G.B. and N.I.?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Aug 17 - 05:19 AM

"I do not lie Jim. There have been many surveys as well as the referenda."
There have been only two referenda - TWO IS NOT "MANY"
The Only time the "people" were asked to resist was when the UNIONISTS ONLY in 1912 when half a million of them signd The Covenant
To put a clause about resistance in any survey or referendum would have been an open incitement to violence - not even the Ulster administration would dare have done that
You made it up and are continuing to defend your invention
"You got that wrong Jim."No I did not - you were given a comprehensive article from 'The Journal' which said exactly what I have said
Stop making things up to defand an archaic hangover of Empire

Subject: RE: BS: G.B. and N.I.?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Aug 17 - 04:44 AM

Jim,
The people have been asked twice - that is not "many times"
You lied

I do not lie Jim. There have been many surveys as well as the referenda.

No referendum has ever asked if they would resist a United Ireland - you made it up - you lied again

They do not want it. Of course there would be resistance. Probably an "armed struggle." It was not implemented originally because the Army refused to fight them.

Subject: RE: BS: G.B. and N.I.?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Aug 17 - 04:38 AM

Jim,
You have been given the last one that says it is

Not true. You just said, "In the South, a poll carried out over a year ago indicated that 65% of the population would vote for a United Ireland."

You got that wrong Jim.
In that 2015 survey in the Republic, which was in my link, only 35% said there should be unity "in the short to medium term."

65% said they would like to see it as "long term policy," "in their lifetime." They would not vote for it now. Only 35% would, as I said in my earlier post.

Subject: RE: BS: G.B. and N.I.?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Aug 17 - 04:25 AM

"The majority do not want to be ruled from Dublin and would resist it." "
The people have been asked twice - that is not "many times"
You lied
No referendum has ever asked if they would resist a United Ireland - you made it up - you lied again
"They were tasked with driving back a cruel invader,"
Strait out of Biggles - jingoistic jargon
What comic book did that piece of flag - wagging melodrama did that come from
You are an anachronistic joke
Rule Britannia -eh what
Where's me whiskey and soda?
Jay-sus!!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: G.B. and N.I.?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 22 Aug 17 - 04:22 AM

Yes but the aforesaid protestant mob weren't a gang of Latvian plumbers on a weekend break. They were your fellow countrymen, were they not?

that's the point. To suggest people like Carson and Paisley were anything other than Irish is disingenuous.

somewhere along the line in this equation are two lots of Irish people who have to coexist peacefully.

You won't do anything about the English tories being a pile of shits who occasionally rely on the unionist mp's. we can't do anything so you can't.

but you could do something about this endless fantasy that its all a problem created by England.

Since Victorian times there have been large numbers of English politicians (occasionally in power) who would have been only too willing to rid themselves of involvement in Irish affairs.

If in the interim, you had sorted yourselves out and found some mutually agreeable solution, THEN when there is a sympathetic administration would be the the time to sort this out for all time

Subject: RE: BS: G.B. and N.I.?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Aug 17 - 04:19 AM

"You have been given the fact that numerous surveys show that not to be true."
You have been given the last one that says it is and you haev been given an up-to-date assesment which shows that that majority is likely to increase thanks to a corrupt Govenment, an incometent Westminster administration and a Brexit that is likely to bring a hard border and an unstable economy for at least a decade (based on Bank of England assesments0
The day of the billy boy is over Keith
You don't respond to my description of the history of partition - it is based on documented fact which you have been provided with ad nauseum
No administration which behaves like that is fir to rule - it is a Banana Republic type of administration that allows those things
Empire is now an outlawed sytem of government throughout the world - Northern Ireland is the last remnants of that oppressive system - time it was put to bed along with racist morons who describe the children of a nation as "brainwashed to hate"
Way past your bedtime Keith
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: G.B. and N.I.?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Aug 17 - 04:12 AM

Al,
First world war generals whose men were massacred were competent

That suggest that there was something else they could have done.
A hundred years of research has not come up with anything.

They were tasked with driving back a cruel invader, but defensive military technology had become so advanced that it could not be done without incurring those appalling casualties.

British generals did better than any of the others. They were the most competent.

Subject: RE: BS: G.B. and N.I.?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Aug 17 - 03:31 AM

Jim,
You have just been given the fact that over 60% of the republic;w population would vote for a United Ireland

You have been given the fact that numerous surveys show that not to be true.

Steve and Rag, in recent months the Unionist parties have finally lost their majority vote. I have referred to the fact that it has been dwindling for years.
There is still a majority in the North who want to stay in the Union, and a majority in the South who do not want the North in the Republic.

My statement, "The people have spoken enough times on this. The majority do not want to be ruled from Dublin and would resist it." was entirely accurate and you were wrong to challenge it.

Subject: RE: BS: G.B. and N.I.?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Aug 17 - 03:12 AM

"There has been a hell of a lot of collusion from the people native to the island of Ireland perpetuating partition."
Go read your history books Al
Partition was forced on Ireland at gunpoint - "sign in three days or go to war" - the result was a brutal year-long civil war - not a lot of "collusion" there.
The country was divided by gerrymandering - first it was to be the whole of the nine counties, then Britain did the math and realised that that would give the Catholics a majority, so they lopped three counties off to give the Unionists power - that's how "democrat" a Unionist Ulster was reached (sort of like deciding the nature of Britain's Govenment by only including the wealthy South East soft underbelly.
From the word "go", the division was unequal - voting rights were based on property ownership - the property owners were predominantly Protestant.
Regular Anti-Catholic riots, employment boycotts, inability to purchase land..... and a whole mass of laws and practices, became permanent features of life for a third of the population
Members of my family were forced to flee Derry - including two young cousins and a babe in arms - when their house was burned down by a protestant mob.
When the Catholics protested in the late sixties, their peaceful marches were navigated though screaming mobs o stone- throwing Loyalists, despite this, the first sectarian murders of 'The Troubles' were carried out by Protestant terrorists led by Gusty Spence - a pub bombing.
As I said - go read a history book
I'm putting this up for you - it's been dealt with ad-nauseum on other threads and justified (or ignored) by out two resident anti- Irish racists
I have no intention of covering it again with two people who have made clear trheir hatred for the Irih - one who thinks all Irish children were brainwashed to hate Britain, the other who claims the Irish were stupid enough to not want independence for themselves but were "conned into it by foreigners" and both who claim that last years dignified and critical commemoration of the Easter Uprising was "celebrating mass murder" - which makes every other nation who has taken up arms to obtain independence from Britain - The United States, Israel, India, Kenya, Cyprus..... "mass murderers"
It is a grotesque hangover of Empire that Britain should still dominate the life and politics of Six Counties in Northern Ireland - the shadow of a system that brought misery, slavery and death to generations throughout the world for many centuries in order that Britain should grow and remain rich and powerful (while, of course, the ordinary British people remained as poor and oppressed as their colonial counterparts)
Ireland is now, hopefully, closing the book on eight centuries of outside interference - not before time.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: G.B. and N.I.?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 22 Aug 17 - 01:49 AM

'grotesque British solution to the problems of Imperialism'

come on Jim. That's less than honest. There has been a hell of a lot of collusion from the people native to the island of Ireland perpetuating partition.

And throughout history there have been a lot of supporters of home rule for Ireland this side of the Irish sea.

If you never face up to your own share of the responsibility for this situation, which has been unacceptable to so many for so long, when can it ever get solved?

Its so easy to just point the finger at the other guy.

The thing Keith is guilty of is not distortion of the facts. Facts are like wriggly eels - you can come up a kaleidoscope of interpretations. (First world war generals whose men were massacred were competent - being a good case for example). Its the suggestion that that partition is somehow justifiable or possibly desirable - even with all its history of bloodshed and rabble rousing that is so utterly wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: G.B. and N.I.?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Aug 17 - 07:32 PM

"There is a majority against a United Ireland in both the North and the South."
You have just been given the fact that over 60% of the republic;w population would vote for a United Ireland
The DUP no longer had a majority and circumstances have wrought about changes that would probably vote the same
Only an agenda-driven moron would choose to ignore those facts
Business as usual with Keith then - he "wins" again (in his head)
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: G.B. and N.I.?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Aug 17 - 07:01 PM

The people have spoken.

The Unionists are the majority.

The Unionists have spoken.

The Unionists are the people.

Have I missed something...?

Subject: RE: BS: G.B. and N.I.?
From: Raggytash
Date: 21 Aug 17 - 02:01 PM

Professor you posted "The Unionists are the majority in NI."

Simple

My post was in a response to that SIMPLE statement. Once again you were incorrect.

Subject: RE: BS: G.B. and N.I.?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Aug 17 - 09:46 AM

Rag, I have read and re-read your linked article.
There is nothing there to contradict anything I have said.
The fault is yours.

Subject: RE: BS: G.B. and N.I.?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Aug 17 - 08:34 AM

There is a majority against a United Ireland in both the North and the South.

Would you still force it on them against their will Jim?

Subject: RE: BS: G.B. and N.I.?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Aug 17 - 07:45 AM

FOR REUNIFICATION
WHAT THE POLITICIANS SAID
STALEMATE
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: G.B. and N.I.?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Aug 17 - 07:32 AM

"There is still no majority for a United Ireland in either the North or the South."
So what Keith?
Apart from the two referenda, all votes in Northern Ireland have been economic ones - The Northern Counties were wealthier and employment was not a major problem - until now
In the South, a poll carried out over a year ago indicated that 65% of the population would vote for a United Ireland
Given the changing circumstances since then, the effects that Brexit is already having on the Republic, the detrimental effects that it has brought to Irish people living in Britain, and the likelihood of a hard border, there is little doubt that there would be a landslide victory for a United Ireland
Add to this, the pride shown by the Irish people in the 1916 commemorations and the forthcoming anniversaries of the War of Independence, the fight against the Tans and the treaty, it will be surprising if a United Ireland does not become a major issue in its own right, economics aside.
Partition has always been a grotesque British solution to the problems of Imperialism - in Ireland, it has filled body bags since it was introduced
It really is time it was ended before we end up with a hard border, a maimed economy like Britain's and yet more bloodshed
Ireland is Ireland and the Irish people have always recognised that fact
It is only the self-interested religious nutters who have ever claimed otherwise
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: G.B. and N.I.?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Aug 17 - 06:55 AM

Jim, I said the majority was dwindling and in recent months may have gone.
There is still no majority for a United Ireland in either the North or the South.

Wiki,
"In demographic terms, the six counties of Northern Ireland taken as a whole contain a majority of Ulster Protestants[5] who almost all favour continued union with Great Britain."
"Surveys identify a significant number of Catholics who favour the continuation of the union without identifying themselves as Unionists or British.[8]"

"Opinion polls of the Northern Ireland population have consistently shown majorities opposed to a United Ireland and in support of Northern Ireland remaining part of the United Kingdom. For example, in a November 2015 survey RTÉ and the BBC, 30% of the population expressed support for a United Ireland in their lifetime"
"The 2013 annual Northern Ireland Life and Times survey conducted by the Queen's University Belfast and Ulster University found that a united Ireland was the favoured long term option of 15% of the population while remaining part of the United Kingdom was the favoured long term option of 66% of the population.[38] When the same survey was carried out in 2015, support was 22%"

"A 2011 survey by Northern Ireland Life and Times found that 52% of Northern Irish Catholic respondents favoured union with Great Britain over a united Ireland."

"In October 2015 an opinion poll commissioned by RTÉ and the BBC and carried out by Behaviour & Attitudes asked those in the Republic of Ireland" 36% wanted United Ireland.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Ireland#Public_opinion

Subject: RE: BS: G.B. and N.I.?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Aug 17 - 06:31 AM

"would give a majority to leave."
Should read -"unite" of course
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: G.B. and N.I.?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Aug 17 - 06:30 AM

"The Unionists are the majority in NI. "
No longer Keith - the Unionist POLITICIANS have he an overall majority since independence - that is no longer the case
The actual Unionists - who actively subscribe to Unionist Parties are, and have always been a small minority of the people as a whole
" The majority do not want to be ruled from Dublin and would resist it."
There has never been a referendum as to whether people would "resist" unification if it ever came about
Do you have any proof of this statement?
The necessity of a change by referendum was only introduced in the late 1980s, in fact there have only been 2 referendums on Unity - in 1973 and 1998, the first gave a 98% majority, the second, nearly 20 yeas ago reduced that majority to 71%
Given the shift in population proportions, Brexit and political corruption by the DUP, it is possible that any present referendum would give a majority to leave.   
Some actual Unionists may resist, but nobody else would
And - as I said - the DUP is now a minority party and could be voted out of office by the three combined parties tht oppose leaving Europe - perhaps it should bung the UK £billion for its support !!
Now - where did this "resistance" come from, or is it yet another of your makkie-ups?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: G.B. and N.I.?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 Aug 17 - 06:18 AM

true enough Jim. But you can always try to do something about your own faults. Its more problematic getting the other bloke to see he's got faults and he needs to do something about it.

Subject: RE: BS: G.B. and N.I.?
From: Raggytash
Date: 21 Aug 17 - 06:17 AM

Read it yourself, that's what I posted it for.

Subject: RE: BS: G.B. and N.I.?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Aug 17 - 06:16 AM

Rag, please quote anything in your link that says I am wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: G.B. and N.I.?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Aug 17 - 06:14 AM

Jim, here is a BBC report on the 2014 Orangefest.
No problems then or since.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-28266902

"Tens of thousands of Orangemen and women have taken part in 12 July celebrations across Northern Ireland."

"Thousands of people have also attended flagship parades in Markethill, Larne and Limavady.

Chief Constable George Hamilton said: "I am pleased that today's Twelfth parades have passed off largely successfully and that those taking part were able to enjoy their day."

2016 BBC
"'Celebration'
First Minister Arlene Foster attended the demonstration in Maguiresbridge and watched her children parade.
"This really is about celebration, it's about doing things in a way that we've done so for generations," she said.
"I always think of the Twelfth when I used to get two sandwiches in a plastic bag and a bun and that is still going on today but it is good fun and we really enjoy ourselves every year." "

Wiki,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parades_in_Northern_Ireland

Subject: RE: BS: G.B. and N.I.?
From: Raggytash
Date: 21 Aug 17 - 06:12 AM

Wrong again professor.




Demographics of Northern Ireland

Subject: RE: BS: G.B. and N.I.?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Aug 17 - 06:03 AM

Steve, I do not lie.
The people, Keith, is what you said. Not a dickie bird about "unionists

The Unionists are the majority in NI.
They are called that because they overwhelmingly demand to remain part of the Union.

So my statement, " The people have spoken enough times on this. The majority do not want to be ruled from Dublin and would resist it." was totally accurate.

Jim has argued that they be forced to join the Republic by armed force.

Subject: RE: BS: G.B. and N.I.?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Aug 17 - 02:52 PM

"I never have. You should not equate the parades with bigotry."
What!!!!!!!
"When they are an excuse for it I join you in condemnation, "
On the contrary - you excused them as I just described
You have never at any toime condemned them - and now you are excusing them further saying thay are not about bigotry
I grew up with the sound of "fuck the Pope" and "Eee ay - Paddy is a bastard" ringing in my ears from those bigots - and dodging the bottles
"Unrealistic, but permissible"
Insane gibberish - there wouldn't be a definable country on the planet if it was possible to vote bits of it away
Maybe on the Planet Zog, where you apparently reside
"N.I., Scotland, Wales and Cornwall are such places, and a majority of 1% is all that is needed.
"
You have argued this before and have nevet made this stapulation
The last time, it was in response to my putting up the Southern Counties - now of which, with the possible exception of Carnwall
You described the Southern States as heroes fighting for freedom and you defend the statutes commemorating a war to maintain slavery - 'nuff for me
Mad as a bag of rats
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: G.B. and N.I.?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Aug 17 - 01:41 PM

You can't lie to me, Keith. When will you ever learn. You said:

"Not true. The people have spoken enough times on this. The majority do not want to be ruled from Dublin and would resist it.
You would force them at gun point if you could."

The people, Keith, is what you said. Not a dickie bird about "unionists." When the people of Northern Ireland "speak," they don't need to have qualified as unionists first. You speak carelessly then you deny it. Very Wheatcroftesque of you. I find your approach to be vulgar (it was a silly thing to say anyway) and fraudulent (because you lied).

Subject: RE: BS: G.B. and N.I.?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Aug 17 - 01:24 PM

Steve,
Ah, but your point wasn't about "the unionists," was it?

Ah, but it was.

Jim,
You have always supported Orange bigotry

I never have. You should not equate the parades with bigotry. When they are an excuse for it I join you in condemnation, but overwhelmingly they are not.

now you are equating the Amertican Civil war with heroic struggle

There was much heroism by the soldiers of both sides Jim.

suggesting that English counties leaving the UK would be permissable

Unrealistic, but permissible. It only arises where there is a distinct and different culture.
N.I., Scotland, Wales and Cornwall are such places, and a majority of 1% is all that is needed.

Your support for Unionist bigotry is no less disgusting than is your support for the Slave States

Blatant lies. I never have and never would support either.

Subject: RE: BS: G.B. and N.I.?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Aug 17 - 01:09 PM

"Denying them basic human rights like birth control and divorce, putting education into the the hands of a paedophile sect."
Peadophils operate throughout the Church - north and south Al - and both sides of the border
It now transpires that it is not just a "Catholic" problem but one common to all denominations - only the North has not got around to looking into theirs yet.
As for family matters, the North refuses to recognise pregnancy termination or same sex marriage
Not an excuse, but plebe don't confuse church matters with the politics that has created an unequal society for Catholics - voting, property ownership, work boycotts - for nigh on a century, which is what I was referring to.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: G.B. and N.I.?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Aug 17 - 12:43 PM

'In a few years there will be a Catholic majority in the North East - we can only hope they don't treat the population in the same way your lot did.'

And let's hope Dublin treats its new citizens better than it treated their own citizens. Denying them basic human rights like birth control and divorce, putting education into the the hands of a paedophile sect.

Subject: RE: BS: G.B. and N.I.?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Aug 17 - 09:32 AM

You have always supported Orange bigotry (sectarian marches="pleasant days out) - now you are equating the Amertican Civil war with heroic struggle and suggesting that English counties leaving the UK would be permissable
No lies there Keith
You are lying when you say I have not replied to you - you choose to ignore what has been said, that doesn't mean it hasn't been said
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: G.B. and N.I.?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Aug 17 - 09:22 AM

Ah, but your point wasn't about "the unionists," was it?

Subject: RE: BS: G.B. and N.I.?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Aug 17 - 09:17 AM

Steve,
"You would force them at gun point if you could."
Brainless.

Not brainless, but the actual truth.
Jim has argued more than once that the British Army should have taken on the Unionists instead of partitioning Ireland.
(The Army refused to do it.)

Subject: RE: BS: G.B. and N.I.?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Aug 17 - 09:14 AM

It is not childish to object to lies being told against you.

I do think it wrong to mock someone's faith instead of discussing the actual issues.

Your behaviour drives decent folk away from this forum, but it is completely wasted on me.

Subject: RE: BS: G.B. and N.I.?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Aug 17 - 09:10 AM

Childish in the extreme, Keith.

Subject: RE: BS: G.B. and N.I.?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Aug 17 - 09:07 AM

You resort to lying about me again Jim.
Your support for Unionist bigotry is no less disgusting than is your support for the Slave States

I never have and never would support either, liar.
Why don't you quote me, liar?
Because it is just more of the lies you resort to telling when you have no reply to what I actually say, liar.