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British Library Sound Archive going on line

Tradsinger 30 Aug 17 - 06:06 AM
Joe Offer 30 Aug 17 - 06:27 AM
nickp 30 Aug 17 - 06:55 AM
Janie 30 Aug 17 - 12:05 PM
Richard Bridge 30 Aug 17 - 06:10 PM
Steve Gardham 30 Aug 17 - 06:15 PM
Lighter 30 Aug 17 - 06:31 PM
Deckman 30 Aug 17 - 07:56 PM
Brian Peters 01 Sep 17 - 04:40 PM
ChanteyLass 02 Sep 17 - 08:24 PM
GUEST,Dave Hunt 03 Sep 17 - 10:38 AM
Tradsinger 05 Nov 17 - 02:30 PM
Snuffy 05 Nov 17 - 04:29 PM
GUEST 06 Nov 17 - 11:11 AM
GUEST,CJB 08 Nov 17 - 05:29 PM
GUEST,Hootenanny 09 Nov 17 - 02:01 PM
GUEST,Malcolm Storey 09 Nov 17 - 07:37 PM
Anglo 09 Nov 17 - 09:06 PM
GUEST,Hootennanny 10 Nov 17 - 05:16 AM
GUEST,Malcolm Storey 10 Nov 17 - 03:28 PM
FreddyHeadey 10 Nov 17 - 08:42 PM
Greenie 11 Nov 17 - 03:59 AM
Jim Carroll 11 Nov 17 - 05:07 AM
GUEST,Hootenanny 11 Nov 17 - 06:06 AM
Jim Carroll 11 Nov 17 - 07:03 AM
GUEST,CJB 12 Nov 17 - 09:50 AM
Jim Carroll 12 Nov 17 - 11:06 AM
GUEST,pauperback 14 Nov 17 - 10:45 PM
Jim Carroll 15 Nov 17 - 03:10 AM
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Subject: Folk archive going on line
From: Tradsinger
Date: 30 Aug 17 - 06:06 AM

Plans for the British Library Sound Archive to put my field recordings on line are going ahead and will probably happen some time next year. This will include recordings of singers and musicians mainly from Hampshire, Devon and Gloucestershire as well as recordings made in the USA in Virginia, West Virginia and New York State. It will be a large and eclectic collection of source material, from Child ballads to scraps of music hall, but I hope it will be of use to anyone out there with an interest in such music. I'll keep you all posted.

Tradsinger
Alias Gwilym Davies
Winchcombe, Gloucestershire


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Subject: RE: Archive going on line
From: Joe Offer
Date: 30 Aug 17 - 06:27 AM

That's great news. I'll be looking forward to it.
Congratulations!
-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Archive going on line
From: nickp
Date: 30 Aug 17 - 06:55 AM

Excellent, thanks
Nick


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Subject: RE: Archive going on line
From: Janie
Date: 30 Aug 17 - 12:05 PM

That's great!


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Subject: RE: Archive going on line
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Aug 17 - 06:10 PM

Liking that.


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Subject: RE: Archive going on line
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 30 Aug 17 - 06:15 PM

Nice one, Gwilym!


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Subject: RE: Archive going on line
From: Lighter
Date: 30 Aug 17 - 06:31 PM

Gwilym, I can't wait.


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Subject: RE: Archive going on line
From: Deckman
Date: 30 Aug 17 - 07:56 PM

I'll bet you've got thousands of hours of work in it! bob(deckman)nelson


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Subject: RE: Archive going on line
From: Brian Peters
Date: 01 Sep 17 - 04:40 PM

That is great news, Gwilym.


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Subject: RE: Archive going on line
From: ChanteyLass
Date: 02 Sep 17 - 08:24 PM

Oooo!


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Subject: RE: Archive going on line
From: GUEST,Dave Hunt
Date: 03 Sep 17 - 10:38 AM

Excellent...looking forward to it Gwilym.


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Subject: RE: Archive going on line
From: Tradsinger
Date: 05 Nov 17 - 02:30 PM

Update - the date for my collection going on line at the British Library has moved to 2019. I'll keep you all posted. In the meantime, you can access the collection by visiting the British Library (or by visiting or contacting me).

Tradsinger


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Subject: RE: Archive going on line
From: Snuffy
Date: 05 Nov 17 - 04:29 PM

Great news. Congratulations
Vaughan


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Subject: RE: British Library Sound Archive going on line
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Nov 17 - 11:11 AM

Good news, but there is much traditional' material online already at the BL website- well worth a listen!


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Subject: RE: British Library Sound Archive going on line
From: GUEST,CJB
Date: 08 Nov 17 - 05:29 PM

BUT still there are recordings at the B.L. of traditional singers and musicians that have restricted access to academic researchers only. I HATE that kind of attitude - that we enthusiastic amateurs are not good enough to access material because academia wishes to claim such for itself. And the culprits I'm thinking of are well known collectors and researchers.

I contrast that arrogant attitude with such as Jim Carroll and Pat McKenzie who have uploaded their entire collection of recordings to the web for ALL to enjoy. Thanks Jim & Pat; and everyone else who has done likewise.


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Subject: RE: British Library Sound Archive going on line
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 09 Nov 17 - 02:01 PM

Guest CJB,

"Entire Collection" Are you sure about that? The impression I get from Jim Carroll's bellyaching in many postings is that nobody is interested in taking up his offers of his recordings.

Having said that his postings are sometimes a little confusing so I could be mistaken.


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Subject: RE: British Library Sound Archive going on line
From: GUEST,Malcolm Storey
Date: 09 Nov 17 - 07:37 PM

Will people for goodness sake stop knocking Jim (and by inference Pat).

They have gathered together a huge catalogue of traditional material from diverse sources and wish only to "get it out there".

Stop the bitching and help or leave it alone.


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Subject: RE: British Library Sound Archive going on line
From: Anglo
Date: 09 Nov 17 - 09:06 PM

Amen, Malcolm Storey.


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Subject: RE: British Library Sound Archive going on line
From: GUEST,Hootennanny
Date: 10 Nov 17 - 05:16 AM

Maolcolm Storey / Anglo

Guest CJB made a statement re Jim's "entire collection".

I was just asking him if he was sure about that as it is not the impression I get from Jim's postings.

You Malcolm imply that they (Jim and Pat)still wish to get it "out there".

Is their entire collection available "out there" or isn't it?

Asking for clarification is not "knocking".


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Subject: RE: British Library Sound Archive going on line
From: GUEST,Malcolm Storey
Date: 10 Nov 17 - 03:28 PM

Well if your posting that I responded to was not knocking, I would hate to be on the end of one that you would consider so to be.


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Subject: RE: British Library Sound Archive going on line
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 10 Nov 17 - 08:42 PM

Hootenanny, if you're wanting a question to come over as a simple question then I think you'll need to keep it as a simple question.
maybe something like " ...I didn't realise the "Entire Collection" was available. Are you sure about that?
Cold hyou help me with some links please? "


But I certainly thought the added
"The impression I get from Jim Carroll's bellyaching in many postings..." came over as knocking.

~~~~~~~~~~~
I tend to prefer threads which provide information relating to the title of the thread rather than the way this thread has been developing.
We could have a separate discussion of the ethics of who is allowed to see collections.

~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm going to bookmark this thread to take another look mid 2018 to see if Gwilym has added any updates.


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Subject: RE: British Library Sound Archive going on line
From: Greenie
Date: 11 Nov 17 - 03:59 AM

Hootennanny,

Jim Carroll is one of the most helpful and generous people I've ever encountered.

Thread drift? Perhaps; but the good guys need our support when they're insulted.

Greenie


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Subject: RE: British Library Sound Archive going on line
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Nov 17 - 05:07 AM

I have not been involved in this thread and it is typical of some of the backbiting that goes on on this forum that someone should use it to carry on a far-too-log vendetta
We dontaed our collection to the (then) British Institute of Recorded Sound later to become National Sound Archive
The music director then, Lucy Duran, welcomed our donation with open arms and, thanks to her efforts, the then mainly musicological holdings expanded to include British traditional music
Pat and I, along wit others, put in some effort to turn that collection into a national Folk Archive, without too much success.
While we were delighted with the Bright Golden Store project, we are still somewhat peeved that our own collection lies largely locked away and, as far as I can mke out inaccessible to the public
I believe this is not the fault of the NSA but on lack of funds stemming from the fact that Folk Song and Music is not as valued in Britain as it is elsewhere
We now live in Clare on the West Coast of Ireland
When we approached our County Library five years ago and asked them did they have any use for our Clare recordings, they immediately appointed two librarians to work on the collection and, after two years, put them on line HERE and HERE
We have just had confirmed that Limerick University has agreed to take the rest of our collection and open a website dedicated to making out Traveller and (hopefully) English and Scots material accessible
While its a shame that we have to tale our English recordings out of the contry to make them accessible, it's a bit of a relief to learn that, at long last, the twenty-years worth of out Walter Pardon recordings might, at long last see the light of day
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: British Library Sound Archive going on line
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 11 Nov 17 - 06:06 AM

Thanks for clarifying the situation Jim and congratulations on getting acceptance at Limerick.

It would appear that my use of the term "Bellyaching" upset someone above. Perhaps I should have used "complaining". Which I think you have done in several other postings regarding the lack of interest in your work by some organisations.


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Subject: RE: British Library Sound Archive going on line
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Nov 17 - 07:03 AM

"regarding the lack of interest in your work by some organisations."
Not really "organisations" Hoot - usualy they have been fine
The high point of the Clare Library website was when it went up the Clare Council appointed two singers in residence to take the songs around the scools to get kids interested in their local songs
We've yet to hear how well that went overall, but we've had good response from teachers locally
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: British Library Sound Archive going on line
From: GUEST,CJB
Date: 12 Nov 17 - 09:50 AM

Back to the British Library ...

Why have certain collectors (well known on the Brit. trad. folk scene) decided to restrict access to their recordings to academics only? That is academics as per registered on approved courses or doing academic research?

My point above was that I HATE that kind of arrogance. Incidentally access to articles in academic Journals is just the same - restricted access for academcs only FGS.

Whereas Jim and Pat have freely shared and made available as much and as many of their recordings as they could afford to do. As Jim said sadly they had to take out of the UK their recordings of English (etc.) performers due to the lack of interest here.

Personally I am extremelly grateful to Jim and Pat for sharing their huge collection of lost, forgotten and likely wiped recordings of folk music and song from various media sources; sources that didn't even have the arrogant attitude of restricted access, but the complete and utter disinterest such that they wiped the originals.


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Subject: RE: British Library Sound Archive going on line
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Nov 17 - 11:06 AM

Aw shucks!!!
Can I just make our position clear
It really does not have anything to do with 'generosity'
We made the same deal (I assume) that every other collector did when we approached singers - "if these songs are not recorded, they'll die when you do" (not necessarily worded like that, mind you)
It was a pact we made with them all to pass on what they gave us.
Walter Pardon told us of when he was approached by a local man who claimed to have songs but who criticised him for giving his songs to whoever asked for them; he was told, "Once you give them away, they're not yours any more".
Walter replied, "They're not my songs, they're everybody's"
These old singers knew the importance of their songs - one old Irish singer told us that he was so worried that his songs would die out that "I tried to teach the dog to sing"
We gained a huge amount of pleasure and knowledge from those we befriended and recorded - we learned quite a few songs too.
One of the worst examples of greed I ever heard about (by a collector being discussed on the other thread), involved John Reilly, the Traveller, who was discovered in a derelict house in Boyle, totally impoverished and quite ill
John gave Tom a stack of rare songs, including 'The Maid and the Palmer' which had been missing for centuries.
As an act of politeness, Tom sent the recordings to the above collector in return for a bit of advice he had received, stressing that they belonged to Tom's employers, who were quite strict on their distribution.
A month or so later, he was horrified to learn that they were advertised for sale on the collector's label
John Reilly had in the meantime died of malnutrition, so Tom asked that the proceeds of the sales be donated to a scheme to educate Traveller children
No response - ever.
The cassette remained for sale for years later and may still be available.
Not the way to repay the generosity of our traditional singers
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: British Library Sound Archive going on line
From: GUEST,pauperback
Date: 14 Nov 17 - 10:45 PM

Interesting story as always Jim Carroll.

Intellectual property rights, I guess, only apply to the intellectual.


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Subject: RE: British Library Sound Archive going on line
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Nov 17 - 03:10 AM

I should have said that the collector whose recordings were ripped off was our late friend, Tom Munnelly, who was one of the most knowledgeable and generous person working in the field of folk song I have ever met
We were once at a conference with Tom in Sheffield where the villain of the piece, Peter Kennedy was a speaker
Tom mentioned the issuing of the material at dinner, and was ignored - the cassette remained for sale until Kennedy's death
I have just checked and am somewhat disturbed to discover that the recordings are now the property of TOPIC RECORDS
Talk about 'The evil that men do lives after them'
Thanks to John Reilly's repertoire, he was one of the most important source singers of the twentieth century
Bronson wrote to Tom Munnelly that the discovery of 'The Maid and the Palmer' guaranteed him immortality in the field of folk song
Pat and I have dedicated a great deal of time to making as much of our own collection as available as possible - but this isn not the way to do it
Jim Carroll


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