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Tune Req: Do you use D A D G A D?

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lefthanded guitar 02 Sep 17 - 12:12 PM
GUEST, DTM 02 Sep 17 - 12:55 PM
leeneia 02 Sep 17 - 03:02 PM
Stanron 02 Sep 17 - 03:34 PM
Big Al Whittle 02 Sep 17 - 04:37 PM
meself 02 Sep 17 - 06:12 PM
GUEST,DrWord 02 Sep 17 - 08:25 PM
Will Fly 03 Sep 17 - 03:55 AM
JHW 03 Sep 17 - 05:59 AM
Big Al Whittle 03 Sep 17 - 06:08 AM
gillymor 03 Sep 17 - 10:14 AM
Brian Peters 03 Sep 17 - 10:58 AM
GUEST,gilly 03 Sep 17 - 12:07 PM
JMB 03 Sep 17 - 10:26 PM
Phil Cooper 03 Sep 17 - 10:27 PM
The Sandman 04 Sep 17 - 02:18 AM
Big Al Whittle 04 Sep 17 - 06:18 AM
The Sandman 04 Sep 17 - 08:19 AM
The Sandman 04 Sep 17 - 11:17 AM
The Sandman 04 Sep 17 - 01:28 PM
GUEST,Brian Peters 04 Sep 17 - 07:53 PM
The Sandman 05 Sep 17 - 01:50 AM
The Sandman 05 Sep 17 - 02:17 AM
GUEST,Fyldeplayer 05 Sep 17 - 02:27 AM
GUEST,Mark Bluemel 05 Sep 17 - 07:38 AM
GUEST,Joseph Scott 06 Sep 17 - 01:40 PM
The Sandman 06 Sep 17 - 01:47 PM
Brian Peters 06 Sep 17 - 06:00 PM
The Sandman 07 Sep 17 - 03:10 AM
GUEST 09 Sep 17 - 08:00 PM
GUEST 09 Sep 17 - 08:01 PM
GUEST,Joseph Scott 09 Sep 17 - 08:04 PM
The Sandman 10 Sep 17 - 03:26 AM
The Sandman 10 Sep 17 - 03:30 AM
punkfolkrocker 10 Sep 17 - 05:37 AM
JHW 10 Sep 17 - 05:53 AM
GUEST,richie 10 Sep 17 - 02:50 PM
leeneia 10 Sep 17 - 07:04 PM
Brian Peters 11 Sep 17 - 05:11 AM
GUEST,Eddie1 (Cookie lost forever) 11 Sep 17 - 07:24 AM
leeneia 11 Sep 17 - 11:17 AM
The Sandman 11 Sep 17 - 12:13 PM
Brian Peters 11 Sep 17 - 12:27 PM
GUEST,Joseph Scott 11 Sep 17 - 03:57 PM
The Sandman 11 Sep 17 - 04:48 PM
GUEST,Some bloke 12 Sep 17 - 04:42 AM
Brian Peters 12 Sep 17 - 08:14 AM
Brian Peters 12 Sep 17 - 08:20 AM
GUEST,Joseph Scott 12 Sep 17 - 01:07 PM
GUEST,leeneia 14 Sep 17 - 09:25 PM
The Sandman 15 Sep 17 - 01:45 AM
Stanron 15 Sep 17 - 05:23 AM
The Sandman 15 Sep 17 - 01:40 PM
Brian Peters 16 Sep 17 - 07:36 AM
Stanron 16 Sep 17 - 08:24 AM
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JHW 18 Sep 17 - 05:47 AM
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Subject: Tune Req: Do you use D A D G A D?
From: lefthanded guitar
Date: 02 Sep 17 - 12:12 PM

I have an older guitar which doesn't t have a lot of resonance. I ve heard that playing in an open tuning will make the guitar sound a little fuller, and am thinking of putting this guitar permanently into dadgad , or some other open tuning; while keeping my main guitar as is for most of my playing( I tried doing regular tuning and open tuning on the same guitar , back and forth, years ago; but it became a bit much, especially if performing) . Have any of you found that open turnings give more dynamic sound? And what tunes do you play open? I don t know when and how open tunings became poptular, but I'll m fond of the guitar work of folks like Chtis Smither, Tom Rush, Bonnie Raitt, Danny Kalb,David Grisham and if you recall; John Fahey; and the like -not that I approach their level of playing, but they inspire me. However, all I suggestions about playing open in any type of song and/or style are welcome.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you use D A D G A D?
From: GUEST, DTM
Date: 02 Sep 17 - 12:55 PM

DADGAD is fine with me however, whether playing or listening, I tend to tire of the drone effect after a while.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you use D A D G A D?
From: leeneia
Date: 02 Sep 17 - 03:02 PM

No.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you use D A D G A D?
From: Stanron
Date: 02 Sep 17 - 03:34 PM

With DADGAD, as with other open tunings, there are some things you can do easily that sound very good. A lot of twang for your twiddle. It takes a lot of imagination and work to get beyond this and if you don't you might get bored with it.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you use D A D G A D?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 02 Sep 17 - 04:37 PM

i always steered clear of dadgad for many years for all the reasons stated above.

THe Damascene conversion for me came for me after attending a workshop by Ken Nicol at Fylde FF.
the celtic guitar dadgad has a lot to answer for. it does that facetious strum /clang interjection at the end of every line so well.

but several artists like Ken and Paul OPenshaw, Paul Downes and the late ERic Roche have got more out of DADGAD. not really by deepening the game. more by re-thinking the instrument. each in their own way.

most of the open tunings have a lot to offer.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you use D A D G A D?
From: meself
Date: 02 Sep 17 - 06:12 PM

As a pretty lame guitarist, I find DADGAD great for the modal, Celticky stuff - but no good for the Americanish stuff. And as a performer who does both, I don't want to be re-tuning all the time, so ... I stick to the standard tuning these days. Good guitarists who have worked on it can get all the right effects for either in standard tuning; probably not in DADGAD.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you use D A D G A D?
From: GUEST,DrWord
Date: 02 Sep 17 - 08:25 PM

By all means, set up your inferior axe to open tuning (there are many). This eliminates re-tuning/de-tuning routine. Go for it! The overdrone is avoided by using the dadgad only some of the time?mix it up! Mudcat's an awesome resource?you're guaranteed an opinion [sometimes several] and, more often, good solid info from a wonderful community.
. And if you want to hear dadgad ~ that's what utoob is handy for. Good luck.
keep on pickin.   Dennis


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you use D A D G A D?
From: Will Fly
Date: 03 Sep 17 - 03:55 AM

I've used DADGAD occasionally in the past, but hardly at all these days as it doesn't suit the style I play.

Some years ago I made a video guide (basic) to DADGAD tuning, which you can see here:

A rough guide to DADGAD tuning

You might find something useful in it.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you use D A D G A D?
From: JHW
Date: 03 Sep 17 - 05:59 AM

I deliberately bought a modest guitar to leave in DADGAD and so spare the good one (and the audience) the tuning but alas it just sits there and I dust the case occasionally. Rethinking brought me to buying a (modest again) resonator as they like open tunings ie bottleneck so I use that for pretty well all the things I'd play open.
As to what tp play I'm afraid I make everything up, all the chords and everything, usually two finger chords. But then I'm not a guitarist, rather a singer with a guitar.(never tried bottleneck though)


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you use D A D G A D?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 03 Sep 17 - 06:08 AM

bottleneck is fun. theres a singer called Kevin Brown who used to do an introduction to slide one day summer school in Bath. It's well worth it. Got me sliding, There was even a guy there setting your guitar up as you walked in.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you use D A D G A D?
From: gillymor
Date: 03 Sep 17 - 10:14 AM

If you're going to dedicate one guitar to DADGAD you might want to use a slightly heavier gauge in the lowered strings to avoid flabbiness and fret rattle. D'addario makes an affordable set, EJ24, designed for DADGAD and I think some other makers do as well. Fortuately, I also like this set for Drop-D Irish/Scottish backup on the 0000-sized guitar I use them on.

I think DADGAD was a wonderful invention and I still play a bunch of fingerstyle tunes with and use it for a few songs as well. It might not be for you but it would probably be fun to find out. Plus, you can also slip into Open-D from there quite easily.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you use D A D G A D?
From: Brian Peters
Date: 03 Sep 17 - 10:58 AM

I use DADGAD a lot of the time - though like 'meself' I retune to standard for American old-time sessions. But chords in standard tuning can add too much harmonic information to modal tunes, hence DADGAD for English folk stuff.

The key to stop it getting boring is not to play in D all the time. It works really well in G; Em, Bm and A also work fine.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you use D A D G A D?
From: GUEST,gilly
Date: 03 Sep 17 - 12:07 PM

Yes I use DADGAD a fair bit and have done for a long while, hearing Richard Thompson use it for 'Banish Misfortune' and others was a big turning point for me. As others wiser have commented above the thing is not to overuse it and not to keep pounding at the bottom D! That can get tedious !
DADEAE is another one worth playing around with as there are some great sounding chordal voicings in there but the thing to do is experiment, it may not always sound 'right' but often you'll find a tune in there. The most important thing is to enjoy it.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you use D A D G A D?
From: JMB
Date: 03 Sep 17 - 10:26 PM

Lefthanded Guitar: You're in the same boat as me. I have often been encouraged to use DADGAD tuning and I have wanted to play it. It was encouraged by a Celtic jam session leader in which I occasionally participated in the past. It does go well with Celtic music. He said have a guitar for standard tuning and a guitar for DADGAD tuning. I wonder bout 12-string guitars, as I always wanted to own one. I've played them before in standard tuning, but DADGAD is something I'm curious about.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you use D A D G A D?
From: Phil Cooper
Date: 03 Sep 17 - 10:27 PM

I use DADGAD a lot. I rarely tune back to standard, because I'm lazy. What I like about DADGAD and other tunings is the sound. But it also gives you limitations. I like trying to work around the limitations. When I was attending my local folklore society song circle I used to accompany a lot of people during their turns (with their permission, I don't like stepping on other people's figurative toes). Quite often I would try and play subtle single note things on the middle three strings and not use a capo. Some people complain about a sameness of sound when using DADGAD a lot. That can happen, but so does playing everything in G shapes in standard tuning and just capoing up and down (which I have seen people do). I've also met some DADGAD enthusiasts who believe the tuning was handed down by the druids. I know it wasn't, using the tuning is a tool, like playing in various other tunings or chords. I would not criticize anyone else's style if what they are doing works for them.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you use D A D G A D?
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Sep 17 - 02:18 AM

I do not agree with Brian,"English Folk Stuff"is only partly modal,at lets 50 per cent is in major key, and is suited to standard tuning, much depends on the competence and skill of the guitarist[ no reflection on any contributors on this thread.
Shetland tunes seem to suit standard tuning using jazzy chords listen to peerie willie. Irish tunes are more complicated harmonically, and imo work well in open tunings AND standard or drop d [have a listen to artie mcglyn].
dadgad is not as versatile as standard tuning, but has advantages as regards really different inversions[leaving out the third note that defines major or minor] for song accompaniment i like to use standard drop d and and a partial capo[which gives a similiar sound to dadgad], the advantage of the partial capo on gigs is that the performer does not have to keep retuning, and can switch between two tunings quickly.
I also use two tunings related to 5 string banjo dgdgbd AND DGDGCD


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you use D A D G A D?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 04 Sep 17 - 06:18 AM

that sounds really really complicated.

if this was a game of pontoon - i'd stick...


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you use D A D G A D?
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Sep 17 - 08:19 AM

one of the reasons Martin Carthy does not use dadgad is because he finds his own tuning more versatile


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you use D A D G A D?
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Sep 17 - 11:17 AM

If I was accompanying the tune the pipe on the hob, i prefer standard tuning, because it is easy to emphasise clearly that the second part is in d major using d major chords, for the first part I would use long d, a d modal chord that is easy in standard and then go to c major, it encapsulates perfectly the switch between modal and major.
or alternatively do not play top e string for the first d modal chord.it is not necessary to play all six strings all the time[something basic guitar tutors rarely point out]


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you use D A D G A D?
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Sep 17 - 01:28 PM

I have given this a little further thought
here are four english songs or melodies or four that are frequently played in english folk clubs, [since no one on mudcat can satisfactorily agree on what a folk song is], that work in standard tuning and which are easy to play the melody and accompaniment, john of dreams, adieu sweet lovely nancy, peggy and the soldier, bonny lass of fyvie o,an american one john hardy.
the following english tunes are straight forward major tunes, jimmy allen, winster gallop,speed the plough,hesleyside reel, random jig, jennylind polka,girl i left behind me,galopede,waters of tyne soldiers joy, just as the tide was flowing, streams of lovely nancy,a fair maid walking in her garden,buttered peas,up and away, the girl with the blue dress on, all of these and many more work perfectly with accompaniment in standard tuning on guitar


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you use D A D G A D?
From: GUEST,Brian Peters
Date: 04 Sep 17 - 07:53 PM

All a matter of taste, of course. I played guitar in an English dance band for two decades and always preferred to accompany major tunes in DADGAD, both for the low D on the bottom string and the option of missing out the 3rds in the chords. But that's just the sound I like. I routinely take the 3rds out of my melodeon basses as well.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you use D A D G A D?
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Sep 17 - 01:50 AM

yes, a matter of taste,the advantage of many open tunings is more sympathetic ringing., that is a fact, not a matter of taste it is also a fact that in the key of d major, d g a modal are all available as modal chords in standard tuning if you get away from using six strings, a modal is available in a six string version d modal in a 5 string version. g modal is available on bottom 4 strings,so is c modal, standard tuning is the tuning that is the most versatile.English tunes are generally speaking harmonically simpler than irish tunes, and generally use less modes than irish tunes, that is a fact.
it is also a fact that in DADGAD there are more different inversions of modal chords that are easy to play and require less technique and which can sound interesting , the problem with some people who use DADGAD, is that they seem to think technique is not necessary, and they keep on repeating the same few tricks incessantly[ obviously i do not mean you Brian] Pierre Bensusan is a Dadgad virtuoso and has great technique and should be compulsory listening for DAdGAD wannabes


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you use D A D G A D?
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Sep 17 - 02:17 AM

to digress slightly , the best accompanying guitarist i have ever played with and that includes some well respected professional players, lives close to me in ireland, uses standard tuning, but actually listens to how i am playing and is familiar with the tunes before he accompanies,guitarists if you are accompanying learn to sing the tune first, then LISTEN to the melody player you are accompanying, it is not just about getting the chords right.
Quite frankly, I would rather not have someone strumin if they cannot get the pulse right and if they are just filling in the sound, what i want from a guitrist is someone who can lift the tune, not just fill in the tune, nor do i want some idiot who plays hornpipes without any swing but tries to play them like reels when i am trying to swing them ,it just becomes a battle.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you use D A D G A D?
From: GUEST,Fyldeplayer
Date: 05 Sep 17 - 02:27 AM

I agree with Brian Peters, if using DADGAD work in other keys without a capo. I use it a lot in G and C to accomp my wife's duet concertina and singing. I play mostly DADGBD, it's close to standard in that you can play first position chords but needs care chords like F. Fun to watch guitarists in audiences trying to figure while I play as they recognise a C or Bm but then I go unusual with the dm. Very powerful for strumming.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you use D A D G A D?
From: GUEST,Mark Bluemel
Date: 05 Sep 17 - 07:38 AM

Is my memory playing tricks on my or do I remember seeing that Roger Wilson (I think it was him) was running a workshop called something like "Hang on a minute" about using standard tuning to get the same modal effects that a lot of people use DADGAD etc for?


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you use D A D G A D?
From: GUEST,Joseph Scott
Date: 06 Sep 17 - 01:40 PM

"chords in standard tuning can add too much harmonic information to modal tunes" That may seem "logical," but if so, many real folk musicians in Europe and America thought the "illogical" sounded good. In blues, for instance, the routine (and as far back as blues can be traced) use of I, IV, and V wasn't based on avoiding "too much" harmonic information relative to close to 1 2 b3 4 5 b7 at all, and similar is true of much European folk music.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you use D A D G A D?
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Sep 17 - 01:47 PM

My opinion is this, that for some songs and tunes stressing major or minor chords is vitally important, modal dyads can be found in standrd tuning but you lack sympathetic ringing, and their are fewer options, but they ARE there.
the solution is to have two guitars, in different tunigs or use a partial capo, variety of sound is in my opinion important


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you use D A D G A D?
From: Brian Peters
Date: 06 Sep 17 - 06:00 PM

"chords in standard tuning can add too much harmonic information to modal tunes" That may seem "logical," but if so, many real folk musicians in Europe and America thought the "illogical" sounded good. In blues, for instance, the routine (and as far back as blues can be traced) use of I, IV, and V wasn't based on avoiding "too much" harmonic information relative to close to 1 2 b3 4 5 b7 at all, and similar is true of much European folk music.

Since this quotes me, I'll respond. I never used the word 'logical', and stressed that this was simply my own taste. I find the rest of the comment difficult to understand. I'm not sure which 'real folk musicians in Europe' you're referring to, but my area is English folk song in which the tradition is unaccompanied vocal - so to accompany it requires that questions of appropriateness and taste are addressed. Different musicians have different solutions.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you use D A D G A D?
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Sep 17 - 03:10 AM

Different musicians have different solutions" good point,and that is what makes music interesting, if we all had the same approach it would be boring.
folk musicians in europe could include peerie willie[who was influenced by american jazz guitrist]could include artie mcglyn, questions of taste and appropriateness apply to all musics not just english trad.
however european folk music includes many different tradtions, and many different approaches all of which are questions of taste. however i do not know what a real folk musicians is and how they differ from folk musicians


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you use D A D G A D?
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Sep 17 - 08:00 PM

"I'm not sure which 'real folk musicians in Europe' you're referring to" Actual folk musicians of the old-time era, on both sides of the ocean, used scales that didn't supposedly fit "well" with the chords they used; that wasn't seen as an issue. When Dave Van Ronk sang a flatted third over I (which "clashes") because John Hurt or whoever had done it, that sort of thing, he was making folk music by emulating real folk music, not just doing whatever he felt like and calling it "folk" music.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you use D A D G A D?
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Sep 17 - 08:01 PM

GUEST there is Joseph Scott.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you use D A D G A D?
From: GUEST,Joseph Scott
Date: 09 Sep 17 - 08:04 PM

"i do not know what a real folk musicians is and how they differ from folk musicians" What folk music used to mean and how the likes of Joan Baez muscled their way into that has been discussed here many times


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you use D A D G A D?
From: The Sandman
Date: 10 Sep 17 - 03:26 AM

joseph scott, what a misguided diatribe, you have contradicted yourself. the introduction of dadgad is based on real folk music, it was intoroduced by davy graham, based on tradtional folk music that he heard in morrocco and the sound of the ud.
van ronk was not a copoyist he was in his own way his own man look at his wonderful innovative harmonic version of cocaine, he did it because he liked the sound, not because john hurtor anyone else did it.
please do not insult joan baez she is a performer of folk songs with a beautiful voice and a very good performer.
your post is of the calibre of a player of the pink oboe, graham was an innovator but his intriduction of dagad was based on tradtional folk music


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you use D A D G A D?
From: The Sandman
Date: 10 Sep 17 - 03:30 AM

the only person who went about faithfully copying other musicians was stefan grossman with his feckin tab guitar system, but he did explain that it was only meant to be a stepping stone stylistically


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you use D A D G A D?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Sep 17 - 05:37 AM

In my experience much regarded as 'folk' music is overly precious, trite, and emotionally unengaging.

I find more connection with Eastern European folk, klezma, middle eastern, and early music inspired 'folk'...

DADGAD and other open tunings work really well for me...

Drone is stylistically all important in my music world...


.. and imho I get really turned off by jazz chords and hip jazzy syncopated rhythms imposed on 'folk' music.

For example my mrs is a big Kate Rusby fan, I like her voice, but her band used to spoil live gigs for my ears.
All that show off clever dick guitar strumming.
She'd sound much better with sympathetic minimalist harmonium, pipes, and open tuned strings drones...


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you use D A D G A D?
From: JHW
Date: 10 Sep 17 - 05:53 AM

Partial capo was mentioned a bit back. Not dadgad but I use often a sort of Dropped D by leaving out the bottom E string (easy with standard Schubb capo) and moving the other 5 strings up a note ie two frets.
You've not altered the E tension so any chords including it haven't changed but you've got that extra bass when it suits.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you use D A D G A D?
From: GUEST,richie
Date: 10 Sep 17 - 02:50 PM

Whats a pink oboe dick


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you use D A D G A D?
From: leeneia
Date: 10 Sep 17 - 07:04 PM

In the past the only DADGAD playing I was aware of was a relentless blang-blang-blang. Then I listened to the video that Will Fly linked above. He plays two ballads using the tuning, and they are beautiful.

Now i see the true point of DADGAD.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you use D A D G A D?
From: Brian Peters
Date: 11 Sep 17 - 05:11 AM

Actual folk musicians of the old-time era, on both sides of the ocean, used scales that didn't supposedly fit "well" with the chords they used; that wasn't seen as an issue. When Dave Van Ronk sang a flatted third over I (which "clashes") because John Hurt or whoever had done it, that sort of thing, he was making folk music by emulating real folk music, not just doing whatever he felt like and calling it "folk" music.

We seem to be at cross purposes here. People in North America have been using guitars to accompany folk songs for over 100 years, and that sound has been popularized in commercial recordings since the 1920s. There is no such tradition in England, where 'actual folk musicians' didn't play guitars at all. I'm not sure what you mean by 'the old-time era', but in the 1910s attempts at harmonizing English folk songs consisted of Cecil Sharp-style piano arrangements, while vernacular singers went on singing unaccompanied like they'd always done.

Most of the leading guitarists trying to devise suitable accompaniments for English folk songs in the 1960s onwards eventually moved away from standard towards a variety of open tunings, which seemed to them more sympathetic to the old melodies. There was no authentically traditional model for them to imitate.

DADGAD would sound quite odd if used for blues or Carter Family songs, because the guitar style used to accompany that kind of music was established long ago. Old Appalachian ballads from unaccompanied singers, however, can be accompanied very effectively with an alternatively-tuned guitar, though many singers would probably head for a modal-tuned banjo first.

Agree with a lot of what PFR said, too.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you use D A D G A D?
From: GUEST,Eddie1 (Cookie lost forever)
Date: 11 Sep 17 - 07:24 AM

Sarah McQuaid has written an excellent DADGAD tutor - here


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you use D A D G A D?
From: leeneia
Date: 11 Sep 17 - 11:17 AM

I just reread the OP, and it starts like this:

"I have an older guitar which doesn't t have a lot of resonance..."

I can tell you a simpler way to get resonance. Fingerpick the guitar (rather than strum it) and use a thumbpick. That thumbpick makes the bass strings thrum like anything.

I got the idea when I saw Martin Wyndham Read (sp) in concert.
============
Recently I went to hear a singer-songwriter, and he used so many alternate tunings that 50% of the time was spent tuning. Fortunately we could banter as he tuned. but still...

One item we discussed was our hatred of squirrels. We decided they should be canned and advertised as "Raised on home-grown tomatoes."


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you use D A D G A D?
From: The Sandman
Date: 11 Sep 17 - 12:13 PM

"Old Appalachian ballads from unaccompanied singers, however, can be accompanied very effectively with an alternatively-tuned guitar, though many singers would probably head for a modal-tuned banjo first."
however, the idea of using dgdgcd on guitar based on sawmill banjo tuning does work well, and uses the same idea as dadgad, eg one string tuned apart, it is just g modal based, rather than d modal based.
nic jones on occasions used a guitar tuning based on double c banjo tuning,cgcgcd, this is c modal based.
the beauty of dgdgcd is that you only have to retune one semitone to be in straight g major tuning, it generally requires light strings or medium light., and does depend on whether you like to sing in g a or posibly b, capoing up


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you use D A D G A D?
From: Brian Peters
Date: 11 Sep 17 - 12:27 PM

You're right, Dick, I think some of those guitar tunings did evolve out of banjo.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you use D A D G A D?
From: GUEST,Joseph Scott
Date: 11 Sep 17 - 03:57 PM

Brian, when do you think folk musicians in England started using harmony?


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you use D A D G A D?
From: The Sandman
Date: 11 Sep 17 - 04:48 PM

what i have noticed about dgdgcd is that if you use thumb melody banjo style using d string as drone, that this is transferable to the guitar, so the player uses strings 2345 for melody and use 1 string as drone.
is that sort of thing used in dadgad, using 2345 [4] strings for melody?


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you use D A D G A D?
From: GUEST,Some bloke
Date: 12 Sep 17 - 04:42 AM

Yes, I use it. Both accompanying certain songs I sing and especially accompanying someone playing tunes as the drone effect at the bass end is similar to that used by pipes players. Hence the "Celtic" comments.

I also play baritone guitar. I'm having an eight string fan fret built as I type but presently use a wonderful inexpensive Alvarez guitar. As this is a large jumbo body, strumming and fast chording get muddled and lost, making it far nicer for slower picking, an excellent arena for modal tuning. In baritone B to B, detuning as per DADGAD gives you a modal A tuning that if played slowly works for English trad ballads like nothing else can. I love it.

I fully agree with the Carthys of this world though that standard tuning gives you the ability to conduct an orchestra. Modal and open tunings give you a string quartet. Martin of course conducts a string quartet like few others can.

(We had him and Martin Simpson play together at our local club last year and shock horror, he played in standard tuning! Might be a first....,)


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you use D A D G A D?
From: Brian Peters
Date: 12 Sep 17 - 08:14 AM

Brian, when do you think folk musicians in England started using harmony?

Well, Joseph, that depends on how you define 'folk' and 'musician'. Some village band musicians (fiddles, woodwinds etc) around 1800 were able to play in parts. There's some evidence for part singing of folk songs in the 19th century, possibly deriving from church or glee club singing. The singing tradition in England - which is what I'm talking abut here - was very largely performed solo and unaccompanied right up to the second half of the 20th century. Guitars came in with the second folk revival, when skiffle musicians started turning their attention from American to English songs from the late 1950s - 1960s.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you use D A D G A D?
From: Brian Peters
Date: 12 Sep 17 - 08:20 AM

the drone effect at the bass end is similar to that used by pipes players

True, but you can also use the higher-pitched strings as drones. For instance, if accompanying a modal tune in A with DADGAD, there's a nice combination of shapes on the middle strings around frets 9-7-5 that leaves the 2nd string open and droning on A throughout.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you use D A D G A D?
From: GUEST,Joseph Scott
Date: 12 Sep 17 - 01:07 PM

Brian and I are agreed that there was harmony in some 19th century English folk music, which leaves us nothing that we're disagreed about here I think.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you use D A D G A D?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 14 Sep 17 - 09:25 PM

The earliest harmony I can think of in an English folk song is in 'Sumer is a-cumin in'. Mid-thirteenth century. After that, the cat was out of the bag.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you use D A D G A D?
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Sep 17 - 01:45 AM

'2Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you use D A D G A D?
From: Brian Peters - PM
Date: 12 Sep 17 - 08:20 AM

the drone effect at the bass end is similar to that used by pipes players

True, but you can also use the higher-pitched strings as drones. For instance, if accompanying a modal tune in A with DADGAD, there's a nice combination of shapes on the middle strings around frets 9-7-5 that leaves the 2nd string open and droning on A throughout.''
A useful post.This idea has similiarities to sawmill tuning on 5 string banjo dgcd or maybe even two c cgcd, using top g string as high drone


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you use D A D G A D?
From: Stanron
Date: 15 Sep 17 - 05:23 AM

What about rounds? What about harmony in church and what about unaccompanied folk song collections reflecting the preconceptions of the collectors not what was there to be collected?


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you use D A D G A D?
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Sep 17 - 01:40 PM

Brian,i have sent you a message


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you use D A D G A D?
From: Brian Peters
Date: 16 Sep 17 - 07:36 AM

What about rounds? What about harmony in church and what about unaccompanied folk song collections reflecting the preconceptions of the collectors not what was there to be collected?

As I said, it depends on what you call 'folk song'. Most people would not consider church music in that bracket. I don't know about the incidence of rounds in traditional singing - not great I suspect.

Collectors like Sharp tended to ignore parlour and music hall songs, but I know of no evidence that there was any widespread use of instrumental accompaniments, that they chose not to record. Steve Roud's recent and very well-researched 'Folksong in England' is quite specific about the collectors' selectivity, and also notes the occasional incidence of part-singing, but concludes - along with everyone else who's studied the subject - that traditional singing was overwhelmingly solo and unaccompanied.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you use D A D G A D?
From: Stanron
Date: 16 Sep 17 - 08:24 AM

It does seem curious to me that the middle classes and the aspirant middle classes who sat in their withdrawing rooms playing music from scores are not considered to be 'folk'. It's a kind of reverse snobbery that says that only the music of the illiterate lower classes was worth collecting. No doubt the collectors assumed that they were already familiar with the material that they did not collect, but are we?


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you use D A D G A D?
From: Brian Peters
Date: 17 Sep 17 - 06:35 PM

Not so much a matter of social class or inverted snobbery, I think, as the way in which the songs were transmitted and assimilated.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Do you use D A D G A D?
From: JHW
Date: 18 Sep 17 - 05:47 AM

Forgot about this. Example of my resonator guitar in open tuning as accompaniment. Click 'Remember Dear' track on the grey player thingy Here. Homemade two finger chords.


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