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poem about a monk reading music

GUEST,leeneia 17 Sep 17 - 05:10 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 17 Sep 17 - 09:41 PM
Rain Dog 18 Sep 17 - 09:28 AM
GUEST 18 Sep 17 - 05:28 PM
Mo the caller 19 Sep 17 - 04:43 AM
leeneia 19 Sep 17 - 06:04 PM
Mo the caller 20 Sep 17 - 08:13 AM
leeneia 20 Sep 17 - 08:57 AM
GUEST,Grishka 20 Sep 17 - 10:57 AM
leeneia 20 Sep 17 - 08:28 PM
Mo the caller 21 Sep 17 - 04:41 AM
GUEST,Grishka 22 Sep 17 - 02:00 PM
Mo the caller 23 Sep 17 - 05:25 AM
GUEST,Grishka 23 Sep 17 - 06:50 AM
Dave the Gnome 23 Sep 17 - 10:31 AM
Mo the caller 23 Sep 17 - 11:47 AM
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Subject: poem about a monk reading music
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 17 Sep 17 - 05:10 PM

Years ago I borrowed a library book of medieval poetry in modern language. One comic poem dealt with a monk named Water (Walter) who is having an awful time learning to read music.

I would like to share the poem with my musical friends. Anybody here know it?


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Subject: RE: poem about a monk reading music
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 17 Sep 17 - 09:41 PM

Leeneia,

To help in your search, could you supply:

The name of the library that you borrowed the book from? An approximate date (broad years)that you checked out the book?

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

It appears to be a fun piece...




,


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Subject: RE: poem about a monk reading music
From: Rain Dog
Date: 18 Sep 17 - 09:28 AM

Would it be the "The Chorister's Lament"

This link has info and further links

The Chorister's Lament


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Subject: RE: poem about a monk reading music
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Sep 17 - 05:28 PM

Thank you very much, Rain Dog. I've typed out the modern version and will share it with my friends.


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Subject: RE: poem about a monk reading music
From: Mo the caller
Date: 19 Sep 17 - 04:43 AM

Hmm, never thought of that.
At least when I joined a choir I did it because I wanted to sing, so my struggles at sight reading are to some purpose. But monks joined up for other reasons.


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Subject: RE: poem about a monk reading music
From: leeneia
Date: 19 Sep 17 - 06:04 PM

I don't have much confidence in the general idea of singers reading music. Most people can develop a good sense of what the music sounds like, but to get it absolutely right, you need to hear it. The best way to do this, apart from music school, is to become a Lutheran.

If you play an instrument, sheet music is good at telling you where to put your fingers, but the skill doesn't transfer 100% to the voice. For one thing, two songs can look identical, but if they are in different keys, the intervals are different.

I have sung with music majors, and most of them wobble on first sight, too. When I sang in a large choir that did concerts, the leaders made recordings of the parts, and we learned off of them.

(Ah, Christmas and Eastertime, when you pull up at a stoplight and see fellow drivers singing their parts on the way to work.)

So the monk Walter has my sympathy. His teacher is demanding the impossible. Walter won't get better at reading by studying alone in his cell. He needs to follow the notes while hearing others sing.


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Subject: RE: poem about a monk reading music
From: Mo the caller
Date: 20 Sep 17 - 08:13 AM

Yes, I came to playing by learning to read the dots, then had to struggle to play by ear. Everyone sings 'by ear' first.

I think some of the tips to playing by ear ~(identify the key note) also help with sight singing. But mostly I'm hammering the notes in one by one on the keyboard, then trying to join in Youtube.
But our Mozart is in 8 parts which seem to get divided between lines randomly so the 'alto2' is useless, and the full recording far too fast.


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Subject: RE: poem about a monk reading music
From: leeneia
Date: 20 Sep 17 - 08:57 AM

Are you familiar with cyberbass.com? It plays all the parts from famous pieces, and you follow along, score in hand. It has 16 works by Mozart.

On the home page, find Mozart, then click on the name of work, then select the part you want. The list of parts is below the player an inch or two.


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Subject: RE: poem about a monk reading music
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 20 Sep 17 - 10:57 AM

Very nice poem! Music appreciation was a religious duty in those days, and that's where Luther took it from. Reading sheet music involves some work that takes mathematical skills rather than musical ones, and although the notation system has become slightly easier nowadays, there are still excellent musicians who have problems with it. (Every now and then, teachers come up with new methods of notation claiming to be much easier. With computer printers available, reprinting the whole music legacy would be perfectly feasible ... if only the advantage were substantial enough.)

Being able to read sheet music, in the sense of "playing" it in your mind by yourself, is a very valuable skill. Not only does it help you greatly when preparing a performance - vocal or instrumental -, but it allows you to enjoy music even with no sound at all.

Moreover, listening to music and reading the score simultaneously is among the most satisfying music experiences. On YouTube there are countless pieces thus prepared, showing the score and even turning over for you.

Still, most choral singers can profit from computerized learning aids such as the ones Leeneia mentions. Even if you do not really need them, they may save you time. I just saw that CyberBass system for the first time, it looks commercial. What I recommend is ordinary MIDI files such as the ones available from the site LearnChoralMusic - where you also find links to free software that does all you may reasonably want.


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Subject: RE: poem about a monk reading music
From: leeneia
Date: 20 Sep 17 - 08:28 PM

Thanks, Grishka. I'll check that site out.


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Subject: RE: poem about a monk reading music
From: Mo the caller
Date: 21 Sep 17 - 04:41 AM

I often use Choirparts. Works for most things but the C minor Mass has parts for double choir and all the notes seem to be there, but not shared between the parts the same way.


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Subject: RE: poem about a monk reading music
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 22 Sep 17 - 02:00 PM

Mo, you seem to be using a file that has not been prepared adequately for the purpose. I just checked the file from LearnChoralMusic, and found that it has all the 8 choral parts in separate "tracks", as it should. I prefer the files from the column titled "UNemphasized" and use a player software that allows you to choose the degree of "emphasis" freely. What is "Choirparts"?

This side discussion should not distract us from the actual topic - a really charming poem, all the more so for those who (like Yours Truly) have tried to learn those old notation systems themselves. Yes, there has been some progress since, and some helpful standardization.


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Subject: RE: poem about a monk reading music
From: Mo the caller
Date: 23 Sep 17 - 05:25 AM

The nearest I've got to old notation systems are the tunes reproduced in the Dover edition (1967) of a translation (1948) of Arbeau's Orchesography (1589). That took some sorting out (especially since it is published sideways -one note for each dance step description.

Choirparts are free Youtube videos, that show the score on the screen. BUT there seem to be various versions of the doublechoir parts of the Mass - the notes are all there but different people sing them. I.e. the score is not the same as the onee are singing from.


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Subject: RE: poem about a monk reading music
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 23 Sep 17 - 06:50 AM

I see, Mo. Due to the fragmentary character of Mozart's manuscripts, each editor has his own ideas about a workable score. LearnChoralMusic offers two versions, "Peters" and "Bärenreiter". If the one you are going to perform is neither of these and not available as a MIDI file elsewhere, you can ask a savvy friend to edit one of the files so that at least your part forms a single track.

The "Choirparts" people on YouTube have done a great job, but the method is not what I would recommend. Singing from sheet music requires reading ahead by a varying amount. Try the software mentioned, to be used while reading from the same vocal score you would have in the concert. This will also improve your ability of sight-reading; you may one day find that you no longer need emphasized MIDI, and one other day, you no longer need any computer at all for that purpose! (This crucially depends on the difficulty of the part. I confess that I still use software for difficult passages, if only to speed up the learning process.)

Software also offers the options of slowing down and transposing the music, and emphasizing your part to an arbitrary degree. If you (- anybody -) want to tell us about your experiences with various methods and programmes, I would certainly be interested. Good luck!


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Subject: RE: poem about a monk reading music
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Sep 17 - 10:31 AM

Dunno about a poembut I remember the prayer -

Blessed art thou, a monk swimmin'

I think that's what they say anyroads.

DtG


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Subject: RE: poem about a monk reading music
From: Mo the caller
Date: 23 Sep 17 - 11:47 AM

I've started a new thread on the diversion. Here

Dave, the one we said was 'pity mice in Plicity'. Dunno where that was.


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