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BS: Post Brexit life in the UK

Steve Shaw 21 Feb 18 - 07:05 PM
Nigel Parsons 21 Feb 18 - 06:50 PM
Steve Shaw 21 Feb 18 - 06:05 PM
Raggytash 21 Feb 18 - 05:44 PM
Steve Shaw 21 Feb 18 - 05:13 PM
Iains 21 Feb 18 - 05:02 PM
DMcG 21 Feb 18 - 04:58 PM
Nigel Parsons 21 Feb 18 - 04:42 PM
Iains 21 Feb 18 - 04:39 PM
Raggytash 21 Feb 18 - 04:20 PM
Iains 21 Feb 18 - 04:18 PM
Raggytash 21 Feb 18 - 04:04 PM
Nigel Parsons 21 Feb 18 - 03:59 PM
Jim Carroll 21 Feb 18 - 03:06 PM
Dave the Gnome 21 Feb 18 - 02:42 PM
Iains 21 Feb 18 - 02:13 PM
Steve Shaw 21 Feb 18 - 01:57 PM
DMcG 21 Feb 18 - 01:44 PM
Keith A of Hertford 21 Feb 18 - 01:42 PM
Dave the Gnome 21 Feb 18 - 12:54 PM
Dave the Gnome 21 Feb 18 - 12:51 PM
Keith A of Hertford 21 Feb 18 - 12:44 PM
Jim Carroll 21 Feb 18 - 12:42 PM
Keith A of Hertford 21 Feb 18 - 12:35 PM
Jim Carroll 21 Feb 18 - 12:30 PM
Keith A of Hertford 21 Feb 18 - 12:30 PM
bobad 21 Feb 18 - 12:28 PM
Iains 21 Feb 18 - 12:15 PM
Iains 21 Feb 18 - 12:12 PM
Nigel Parsons 21 Feb 18 - 12:10 PM
Jim Carroll 21 Feb 18 - 12:03 PM
Nigel Parsons 21 Feb 18 - 12:00 PM
Keith A of Hertford 21 Feb 18 - 11:52 AM
bobad 21 Feb 18 - 11:25 AM
Jim Carroll 21 Feb 18 - 11:21 AM
bobad 21 Feb 18 - 10:30 AM
Raggytash 21 Feb 18 - 09:50 AM
Dave the Gnome 21 Feb 18 - 09:39 AM
Raggytash 21 Feb 18 - 09:10 AM
Nigel Parsons 21 Feb 18 - 08:56 AM
Raggytash 21 Feb 18 - 08:48 AM
Raggytash 21 Feb 18 - 08:46 AM
DMcG 21 Feb 18 - 08:12 AM
Iains 21 Feb 18 - 06:59 AM
Raggytash 21 Feb 18 - 06:49 AM
Nigel Parsons 21 Feb 18 - 06:47 AM
Jim Carroll 21 Feb 18 - 06:46 AM
Raggytash 21 Feb 18 - 06:44 AM
Jim Carroll 21 Feb 18 - 06:37 AM
Dave the Gnome 21 Feb 18 - 06:29 AM
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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Feb 18 - 07:05 PM

Nigel, I know he's your bosom buddy, but he used the wrong word. You know it, I know it,everyone else here (if they could be arsed to take an interest, which I hope they won't) knows it. Only Iains doesn't know it because he's a bit illiterate, as he's demonstrated over dozens of posts (yet he has the gall to criticise Jim!). Insidious yep. Invidious nein!

Gosh, what fun!


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 21 Feb 18 - 06:50 PM

And Nigel, in the mangled words of Mandy Rice-Davies, Iains would say that, wouldn't he? Don't be such a naif, Nige!
You mean he would confirm that the word he originally used in a properly constructed sentence: Personally I expect this division, coupled with the invidious advance of momentum, to totally destroy the labour party.

You may wish to consider me na?ve, but I consider that you have never given up the role of bullying schoolteacher.

Pointing out a wrongly used singular in a later sentence does nothing to support your point about the earlier sentence.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Feb 18 - 06:05 PM

Here you are. A government of the land of hopelessness and inglory, scrabbling around hopelessly for scraps. From the Guardian tonight.

. Theresa May has been forced to reassure jittery Brexiters on her own back benches as her 11-strong Brexit inner cabinet prepared to assemble for an eight-hour away-day to thrash out a deal on Britain?s future relationship with the European Union.

After another day in which Conservative differences over Brexit were exposed, ministers were summoned to the PM?s country retreat of Chequers for talks scheduled to go on until 10pm on Thursday...

...During the transition period, the UK will effectively remain a member of the single market and the customs union under the jurisdiction of the European court of justice, but without any say in the EU?s rules.

Sources at the Department for Exiting the EU insisted officials were simply trying to force the European commission to justify its insistence that the transition period should end 21 months after Brexit day on 29 March 2019.

In practice, Britain also fears that it could end up paying more for a longer transition, which would extend into the EU?s next budget period. ?It?s only an issue of three months in reality, and will very likely prove too expensive to change,? said one cabinet minister.


Is that the good news we can expect to cling to? What a bloody shambles.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 21 Feb 18 - 05:44 PM

"Yes! The day gets ever closer, and that hopefully will finally stop your wittering!"

Come on Iains, just find one postive forecast about our future, the future of our children and grandchildren.

And please not the "freedom" that is alleged to have been shouted by William Wallace as his knackers were hacked off and burnt before him.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Feb 18 - 05:13 PM

Saying that "some adults can also be a naif" is the same as saying that "some people can be an idiot." The Schoolteacher Shaw would far rather redraft the sentence into a sensible form of English, viz. "some people can be idiots." Plural with plural in harmony, Nige. "Some people are capable of being idiots" would be even better, but hey ho. And Nigel, in the mangled words of Mandy Rice-Davies, Iains would say that, wouldn't he? Don't be such a naif, Nige!


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 21 Feb 18 - 05:02 PM

I see no ships!


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 21 Feb 18 - 04:58 PM

I don't think the analogy of sailing headlong into danger without listening to warnings and ultimately it all ending in disaster is quite what you had in mind.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 21 Feb 18 - 04:42 PM

"Have you got any news of the iceberg?"


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 21 Feb 18 - 04:39 PM

Yes! The day gets ever closer, and that hopefully will finally stop your wittering!


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 21 Feb 18 - 04:20 PM

Iains, do you have any positive news to tell us about Brexit?


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 21 Feb 18 - 04:18 PM

"Schoolmaster Shaw appears to enjoy a level of literacy that poor Iains can only dream of (and that's not even bragging). Observe, Nigel:

"Sadly some adults can also be a naif."

Observe Idiot,

Naif a less common word for naive. adj. 1590s, from French naif, literally "naive". As a noun, first attested 1893, from French, where Old French naif also meant "native inhabitant; simpleton, natural fool."

So tell me shaw, you pretentious little fellow, which one are you?
a simpleton? or natural fool?"


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 21 Feb 18 - 04:04 PM

Hmmmmmmm I do not recall any of that long list of people posting to this thread.

One would gather from the above statement that I was referring to one individual as being utterly, utterly naive.

PS I am certain that is anyone wished to create a list of eminent people who voted to remain they could do so.

Any sign of any GOOD news yet .......................


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 21 Feb 18 - 03:59 PM

"It may be that Schoolmaster Shaw knows what Iains' intended meaning was better than Iains himself, but I very much doubt it!"

I don't doubt it. Schoolmaster Shaw appears to enjoy a level of literacy that poor Iains can only dream of (and that's not even bragging). Observe, Nigel:

"Sadly some adults can also be a naif."

The lack of comma and use of "can" are one thing. But, tell me, Nigel (no lightbulb-style joke intended here): how many adults does it take to constitute one "naif?"

Ah, how pretentiousness doth go before a fall! :-)


My comment was about your insistence that you knew that Iains intended the use of a word other than the one he originally used.

I then said that: I would imagine that we'll get clarification from Iains at some point. But even if he confirms that he always intended to use 'invidious' I doubt that that will be enough to convince you.

As Iains has confirmed that he chose his word correctly, you were wrong in your assertion, and I was right that you would not accept the fact.

'Schoolmaster Shaw' demonstrates again his failure to accept facts.
Or is it just that you assume that others will follow your guide in using words they don't mean as they can later retract them as 'mere whimsy'?


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Feb 18 - 03:06 PM

"Funny that all the major news sources carry the sordid little tale then,"
Is it really - have you been following the shit that's been slung at Corbyn since he took office
"From your faithful sleuth hound Guido"
Thank you for underlining my point - yet another right-wing conspiracy theorist
What planet do you occupy?
You've been linked to the author of this report - a right wing extremist nutter
"They are strangers to me Jim, but enough information is given to make it foolish to dismiss any of them as naïve.
That was my point."
And teh rest of us
We could spend the rest of our lives linking to different people for or againt Beexit - it is meaningless shit
Yoy make your point by addressing the situation as it sastans, not telling us who supports it
Most of the economics establishment have been horrified since the decision was taken - are they a naive bunch of morons?
You've nebver rally got to grips with what debating is about - have you
With you, it's a matter of hastily shuffling through the net until you find something that looks about right
I swear you don't even read it yourself before you post it
Address the facts - nobody needs lists of unknowns
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Feb 18 - 02:42 PM

Good gracious. One of the crew trying to avoid answering a simple question by harping on about Jeremy Corbyn accusing someone of squirming. I have not seen such wriggling since Wrigley McWrigle took to the slopes in the men's slalom. I must say, I didn't see that one coming.

The other point about that news DMcG is that it assumes that any savings on imports will be passed on to the consumer. We all know that this never happens. The only people to benefit will be the shakers and movers. Joe Public will be paying the same for inferior products. As ever.

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 21 Feb 18 - 02:13 PM

"It has been established from your previous posting that this story originates from an extremist right-wing conspiracy theorist Iains"

Funny that all the major news sources carry the sordid little tale then, is it not? Even the Gruniard and BBC repeat the story, both being hotbeds of the retard, libtard, remoaner fraternity.

The allegations are fact - substantiation, like brexit, is perhaps a future event.
Terrible things facts. that is why remoaners shy away from them, they destroy your narrative (always)

Below is a link describing Labour as the Stasi's useful idiots
From your faithful sleuth hound Guido
https://order-order.com/2018/02/21/read-in-full-stasi-file-on-british-labour-party/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2018/02/20/britain-in-a-stir-over-accusation-that-labour-leader-jeremy-corbyn-

squirm - squirm -squirm!


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Feb 18 - 01:57 PM

"It may be that Schoolmaster Shaw knows what Iains' intended meaning was better than Iains himself, but I very much doubt it!"

I don't doubt it. Schoolmaster Shaw appears to enjoy a level of literacy that poor Iains can only dream of (and that's not even bragging). Observe, Nigel:

"Sadly some adults can also be a naif."

The lack of comma and use of "can" are one thing. But, tell me, Nigel (no lightbulb-style joke intended here): how many adults does it take to constitute one "naif?"

Ah, how pretentiousness doth go before a fall! :-)

Anyhow, to listen to the news today you'd think that the hubris-ridden brexiteers actually have some control over the length and conditions of the transition period. They don't. We will comply with the wishes of the EU more or less in full, you'll see. And we will lose the power of veto into the bargain. Oh happy days. But no-one dares to make any move that would threaten Theresa May. No Theresa, no brexit is the Tory thinking. We are a laughing stock.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 21 Feb 18 - 01:44 PM


The problem of one country being able to easily offload dodgy goods onto another country is made easier by a 'common market'.


That is one way of looking at it. I would say it is the absence of border checks and failure to meet agreed standards that make it easy. Those may be features of a common market, but are not limited to common markets.

So do you want us to have border checks on food? And do you want us to be able to insist on higher food standards than those given in the article, 'race to the top' style?

By the way, there is some 'good news' in a forecast just out from the 'Economists for Free Trade' which predicts a financial benefit of leaving Brexit. Just a few problems with that:

- our Leavers dismiss all forecasting, so they are logically obliged to dismiss this one as well
- it assumes zero costs of borders, so no way to monitor if that bad food turns up at the border.
- it tolerates the collapse of the UK food market and other sectors if the US and other undercut it. In previous forecasts one of the authors thought this inevitable.
- all of the authors are from the 'Economists for Free Trade' group, so it will be hard to demonstrate this is impartial.

And, as it happens, their assumptions are not compatible with the position paper given to Parliament today, at least in the short term, or, since it is effectively a 'Singapore style' approach, with Davis' latest statements.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Feb 18 - 01:42 PM

There is no news Dave.
It has not happened yet.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Feb 18 - 12:54 PM

Sorry that should have been 4 out of 4. None of them have given us any good news. I am 33% better than I first thought:-)

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Feb 18 - 12:51 PM

3 out of 3! I am the predictionmeister:-)

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Feb 18 - 12:44 PM

They are strangers to me Jim, but enough information is given to make it foolish to dismiss any of them as naïve.
That was my point.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Feb 18 - 12:42 PM

Keith
Re your long list
I have little doubt that each and every one of them are as nmuch strangers to you as they are to the rest of us
Rather than scoop names up from the net, how about addressing the damage done so far - the racism, the destabilised economy, the deal with parties with terrorist links..... right down to the fact that the Government carried out no study on what would happen if Britain left Europe
An all-round fuck-up, whoever supports it
Any eejit can cut-'n-paste links - as you are constantly proving
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Feb 18 - 12:35 PM

Jim,
"expelled for using offensive anti-Semitic term "zio""
Don't see any reference to the Jewish people there Keith


"Zio" is clearly recognised as an anti-Semitic term of abuse by the Labour Party and the Daily Mirror, hence the headline.

Universally actually.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Feb 18 - 12:30 PM

"I'm sure you remember fairly recent cases of UK supermarket suppliers re-labelling food which was past its sell by dates and reintroducing it into stock."
OLDEST TRICK in the BOOK NIGEL
Nothing whatever to do with Europe
"Who is a silly boy for omitting the link? "
It has been established from your previous posting that this story originates from an extremist right-wing conspiracy theorist Iains
No harm in trying to pass it off as fact again, I suppose
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Feb 18 - 12:30 PM

Rag,
Oh no we have no evidence to support this, no, no evidence at all but we know it is the best path.
Utterly, utterly naive.


Here are some more of the millions who voted and still support Leave.
They may be proved wrong, but only a fool would dismiss them all as naïve.
Only a fool Rag.

Professor Gwythian Prins, Emeritus Research Professor, London School of Economics, visiting academic professor, École Spéciale Militaire de Saint-Cyr
Dr Philip Towle, Emeritus Reader in International Relations, and former Director of the Centre of International Studies, Cambridge

Sir Andrew Wood, former UK Ambassador to Yugoslavia and to Russia, and currently Associate Fellow, Russia and Eurasia Programme, Chatham House.
Philip Cunliffe Senior Lecturer in International Conflict, University of Kent.
Lord Maurice Glasman is a Labour Peer and political theorist and Director of the Common Good Foundation
Professor Robert J. Jackson is Distinguished Professor at Carleton University Ottawa and Emeritus Fletcher Jones Professor of International Relations at the University of Redlands, California.
Jonathan Rutherford, writer and political adviser, is Emeritus Professor of Cultural Studies, Middlesex University
Professor Richard Tuck, FBA, Frank G. Thomson Professor of Government at Harvard
Professor David Abulafia, FBA, is Professor of Mediterranean History, Cambridge
Professor Robert Colls, Professor of Cultural History at De Montfort University
Sir Noel Malcolm, FBA, is a Senior Research Fellow at All Souls? College, Oxford
Andrew Roberts, Historian and biographer. Lehrman Institute Distinguished Fellow at the New York Historical Society and Visiting professor at the War Studies Department, Kings College London
Dr. Daniel Robinson, international history, Fellow of Magdalen College, University of Oxford, formerly Senior Policy Adviser to the Minister for the Cabinet Office on the Union and Devolution in the aftermath of Brexit.
Professor Jonathan Rutherford, writer, political adviser and Emeritus Professor of Cultural Studies, Middlesex University and co-founder of Blue Labour
Dr Peter Sarris Reader in Late Roman, Medieval and Byzantine History, Cambridge
Prof David Coleman, Professor of Demography, University of Oxford Institute of Population Aging.
Pamela Dow, formerly director of strategy at the Ministry of Justice, now chief reform officer, Catch22
Dr Joanna Williams, author and academic. Education Editor of Spiked magazine. Author of Academic Freedom in an Age of Conformity (Palgrave/McMillan)
Dr Ian Winter is a senior lecturer in the Department of Physiology, Development and Neuroscience, Cambridge

Dr Graham Gudgin Economist, Centre for Business Research, Judge Business School University of Cambridge
Professor Robert Tombs Emeritus Professor of French History, University of Cambridge
Sir Richard Aikens, QC, is a former member of the Court of Appeal, and has served as Vice President of the Council of Europe?s Consultative Council of European Judges
Baroness Ruth Deech, former chair of the Human Fertilisation and Embryology Authority, and former Principal of St Anne?s College, Oxford
Dr. Richard Ekins, Associate Professor in Law, St. Johns College, University of Oxford.
Professor Carol Harlow, QC, FBA, Emeritus Professor of Law at the London School of Economic
Professor Guglielmo Verdirame, Professor of International Law King?s College, London
Mr. Alexander Darwall, Jupiter Fund Management.
Sir Paul Marshall, Marshall Wace, Chairman of ARK Schools
Mr Rory Maw, Bursar, Magdalen College, Oxford
Dame Helena Morrissey. Head of Personal Investing. Legal and General Investment Management. Formerly Chief Executive, Newton Investment Management.
Professor Paul Ormerod, economist at Volterra Partners, a Visiting Professor at the UCL Centre for
Mr.Edmond Truell, Disruptive Capital Finance, London
Professor Nigel Biggar, Regius Prof of Moral and Pastoral Theology, and Canon of Christ Church, University of Oxford
Professor Paul Elbourne, Professor of the Philosophy of Language, Magdalen College, Oxford University
Dr James Orr McDonald Post-Doctoral Fellow in Theology, Ethics and Public Life, Christchurch College, University of Oxford
Dr. Tom Simpson, philosophy of public policy, Blavatnik School, University of Oxford
Professor John Tasioulas, Director of the Yeoh Tiong Lay Centre for Politics, Philosophy, and Law, King?s College, London
Dr Philip Cunliffe, Senior Lecturer in International Conflict, University of Kent
Sir Richard Dearlove, former head of the Secret Intelliegence Service, former master of Pembroke College, Cambridge, and Chair of the Trustees, University of London
Mr John Forsyth, former member of the Council of the Royal Institute for International Affairs and Centre of International Studies, Cambridge
Dr Lee Jones, Reader in International Politics, Queen Mary, University of London
Sir Peter Marshall, retired FCO, former Assistant Sec-Gen of Commonwealth


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: bobad
Date: 21 Feb 18 - 12:28 PM

the rise of racism in Europe today

Would this be what you're referring to?

The largest number of anti-Semitic incidents in the European Union in 2016 was registered in Germany (1468) and Britain (1308), followed by Austria (477), the Netherlands (428), France (355) and Sweden (277).

The European Union Agency for Fundamental Rights is a Vienna-based body. It aims to help ensure that the fundamental rights of people living in the EU are protected


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 21 Feb 18 - 12:15 PM

http://www.theweek.co.uk/jeremy-corbyn/91802/jeremy-corbyn-rejects-spy-story-with-chilling-media-threat
Who is a silly boy for omitting the link? Might be accused of making things up without it!


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 21 Feb 18 - 12:12 PM

" It can be found in todays Guardian and makes very poor reading."

If it is poor reading there is little point in bothering - We will take your word for it.

This article below however is worth reading. Corbyn's response to allegations about his links with spies is to threaten the freedom of the press.
Rather makes you think he may have something to hide doesn't it?
As a commentator aptly said:
"Corbyn doesn?t understand that it is the role of the press to criticise and, yes, mock politicians,
but it is never the role of politicians to threaten the press.


That a Labour leader cares so little for the radical historic struggle for this press freedom is deeply disturbing...."


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 21 Feb 18 - 12:10 PM

Raggytash.
Ok. America has problems.

I'm sure you remember fairly recent cases of UK supermarket suppliers re-labelling food which was past its sell by dates and reintroducing it into stock.

Also the scandal of beef sourced from elsewhere in the EU which included a proportion of horse meat.

I'm not claiming the Americans are blameless, but if you look closer to home you'll find problems as well.

The problem of one country being able to easily offload dodgy goods onto another country is made easier by a 'common market'. Even so I didn't object to us joining a 'common market', but I never wanted that to be the means of moving toward a super-state.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Feb 18 - 12:03 PM

"expelled for using offensive anti-Semitic term "zio""
Don't see any reference to the Jewish people there Keith
"No, Keith did not raise the lie of ethnic cleansing - that was you."
Keith brought antisemitism into it - he lied
Enough - take it to the other thread as requested
It should never have been here in the first place - antisemitism or the imagined crimes of the About party have SFA to do with Brexit - unless, of course, you wish to join me in pointing out that the racism on the rise of racism in Europe today is a direct result of the incitement to race hatred to push through Brexit
I'm sure neither of you do
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 21 Feb 18 - 12:00 PM

Or can you tell us of the 'research into the consequences' (of remaining) that you based your vote on?

Funnily enough, Nigel, yes I can. Firstly, even without predictions, we can take it as a fact that we would have remained part of the largest mutual trading organisation in the word. My children and grandchildren would have remained free to live and work anywhere in Europe. The NHS and businesses would not have to worry about staff levels. And lots more facts


Nope. You're telling me what beliefs you based your vote on. Claiming them as facts is not providing "research into the consequences" which is what remain voters here are asking the leavers to provide.

How long has staffing been a problem with the NHS?
If we had not voted leave, would the NHS now not be worrying about staffing levels? I somehow doubt it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Feb 18 - 11:52 AM

Dave,
There has been no research into the consequences yet you still voted for it.

Not just me. Millions of us read all the dire predictions and decided it was still worth having.
The majority in fact.

Jim,
Brexit opened the doors to the rise of fascism

Read what the real hard Left activists like Lindsay German say about it.

"The other is to look at the reality which is the EU. It is not the antithesis of Brexit Britain, but an institution which is driving and reinforcing many of the problems across Europe, from the refugee crisis to worsening work conditions, to a growing militarism. While it is continuing to penalise Greece, it turns a blind eye to far-right politics in Poland and Hungary, and looks like endorsing the return of Silvio Berlusconi in next month?s Italian election.
It is exactly the politics put forward by Corbyn which can provide an alternative to the neoliberalism which dominates Europe. The EU leaders are united in opposing these politics and in doing everything they can to prevent them from succeeding."

Jim,
Daily mirror headline,
Labour party activist 'with history of noxious behaviour' expelled for using offensive anti-Semitic term "zio"


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: bobad
Date: 21 Feb 18 - 11:25 AM

Keith raised the false story - it's been dealt with

No, Keith did not raise the lie of ethnic cleansing - that was you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Feb 18 - 11:21 AM

Take it elsewhere Bobad
Keith raised the false story - it's been dealt with
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: bobad
Date: 21 Feb 18 - 10:30 AM

carrying out ethnic cleansing in Israel

The rate of growth of the Arab population of Israel - 3.4% on average per year - is one of the highest in the world, and is even higher than in neighboring Arab countries (for example, 2.8% in Syria and in Jordan and 2.1% in Egypt). In the Palestinian Authority, the rate of growth is even higher - 4.3% per year.

The life expectancy of Israeli Arabs is higher than in any Arab or Muslim country.

The question is what drives people to promulgate such invidious lies - I think the answer is plainly obvious.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 21 Feb 18 - 09:50 AM

Here is the article from the Guardian in full, it is well worth taking the time to read it.


Shocking hygiene failings have been discovered in some of the US?s biggest meat plants, as a new analysis reveals that as many as 15% (one in seven) of the US population suffers from foodborne illnesses annually.

A joint investigation by the Bureau of Investigative Journalism (TBIJ) and the Guardian found that hygiene incidents are at numbers that experts described as ?deeply worrying?.

US campaigners are calling once again for the closure of a legal loophole that allows meat with salmonella to be sold in the human supply chain, and also warn about the industry?s push to speed up production in the country?s meat plants. And UK campaigners warn that the UK could be flooded with ?dirty meat? if a US trade deal is signed post-Brexit.


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The unpublished US- government records highlight numerous specific incidents including:

Diseased poultry meat that had been condemned found in containers used to hold edible food products;
Pig carcasses piling up on the factory floor after an equipment breakdown, leading to contamination with grease, blood and other filth;
Meat destined for the human food chain found riddled with faecal matter and abscesses filled with pus;
High-power hoses being used to clean dirty floors next to working production lines containing food products;
Factory floors flooded with dirty water after drains became blocked by meat parts and other debris;
Dirty chicken, soiled with faeces or having been dropped on the floor, being put back on to the production line after being rinsed with dilute chlorine.
All of the reported breaches resulted in immediate remedial action with no risk posed to consumers, according to the companies involved.

But campaigners warned that other violations may go undetected. Tony Corbo, senior lobbyist with Food and Water Watch, said: ?While the inspectors are able to cite the plants for hundreds of violations per week, I am confident that they are not catching every instance of unsafe practices being committed in these plants.?

Meat hygiene inspectors interviewed by the Guardian agreed, saying fast line speeds and other pressures in some plants meant it was ?inevitable? that some breaches slipped through the net.

The findings are worrying, according to Prof Erik Millstone, a food safety expert at Sussex University, ?because of the risks of spreading infectious pathogens from carcass to carcass, and between portions of meat. The rates at which outbreaks of infectious food poisoning occur in the US are significantly higher than in the UK, or the EU, and poor hygiene in the meat supply chain is [a] leading cause of food poisoning in the US.?

Black bacterial colonies of salmonella. Food poisoning outbreaks are much higher than in the UK.
Facebook Twitter Pinterest Black bacterial colonies of salmonella. Food poisoning outbreaks are much higher than in the UK. Photograph: Chansom Pantip/Getty Images/iStockphoto
The Bureau and the Guardian obtained previously unpublished documents relating to 47 meat plants across the US. Some of the documents relate to certain companies, including Pilgrim?s Pride, one of the US?s biggest poultry producers, and Swift Pork. Although not a comprehensive portrait of the sector - there are around 6,000 US plants regularly inspected by Food Safety and Inspection Service (FSIS) - the documents provide a snapshot of issues rarely detailed in public which has rung alarm bells with campaigners in both the US and UK.

?The US meat industry has a responsibility to clean up its act,? said David Wallinga, senior health officer at the Natural Resources Defence Council, which obtained some of the documents. He said the Pilgrim?s Pride records detailed ?numerous food safety violations.?

Kerry McCarthy, former UK shadow environment minister and Labour MP, called for urgent reassurances from both the UK Food Standards Agency (FSA) and ?the top of government? that standards would not be allowed to slip as trade negotiations with the US get underway.

?We cannot allow this to be a race to the bottom. We should insist the US raises its standards, and guarantees food safety, before we are prepared to allow in US meat imports,? she said. McCarthy has written to the environment secretary, Michael Gove, and Liam Fox, the trade secretary, to raise the matter.

The documents seen by the Bureau and Guardian do not reveal the full numbers of non-compliance reports across the whole sector. However, one dataset covering 13 large red meat and poultry plants over two years (2015-17) shows an average of more than 150 violations a week, and 15,000 violations over the entire period. Thousands of similar violations were recorded at 10 pork-producing plants over a five-year period up until 2016, further documents show.


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Another batch of previously unpublished documents shows frequent failings at 24 plants operated by Pilgrim?s Pride who recently bought the British chicken giant Moy Park. The company slaughters 34 million birds each week and produces one in five of the chickens in the country.

More than 16,000 non-compliance reports on Pilgrim?s Pride operations detail 36,612 individual regulatory violations - an average of 1,464 a month - at the 24 plants during a 25-month period between 2014 and 2016.

Pilgrim?s Pride chickens on display at a supermarket.
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Pilgrim?s Pride chickens on display at a supermarket. Photograph: Kristoffer Tripplaar / Alamy/Alamy
In one incident, diseased meat ? condemned from entering the human food chain ? was placed in a container meant for edible product. An inspector discovered ?carcasses of poultry showing evidence of septicemic disease ... carcasses showing evidence of having died from other causes than slaughter ... guts of carcasses, [and] poultry carcasses with heads attached.? He requested that the condemned items be removed. A similar incident was recorded some days later.

One inspector saw chicken drumsticks piling up on the floor, and instructed workers to pick them up ?to be reconditioned with chlorinated water.? Again, a similar incident had occurred previously. In another incident in a bagging department, 36 shrink-wrapped whole birds were found scattered on the floor. An inspector noted: ?in my presence the establishments began initiating their corrective action by picking up all affected product off the floor ... to be carried to the establishment?s designated wash station to be thoroughly rinsed off.?

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Meat soiled with faecal matter was also recorded, with an inspector noting ?... I observed a poultry intestine in the liver bin. The intestine was approximately 6.5 inches long and had visible faeces oozing out both ends.? The incident resulted in the livers being condemned from the human food chain.

At another Pilgrim?s Pride plant, the records reveal how deficient equipment led to a carcass becoming contaminated with faeces. ?I observed one of my 10 test birds with a spot of faecal matter on the exterior of the right thigh. The spot of faecal [sic] was ? brownish green in colour and had a pasty consistency,? an inspector notes. The affected bird was ?retained by management for review then sent to reprocessing for reconditioning with chlorinated water.? Similar carcass contamination had been recorded before.

Internal FSIS records also highlight numerous violations at meat plants producing pork. In an incident recorded at a plant run by Swift Pork, owned by meat giant JBS, 48 pig carcasses were found to have fallen on the floor because of defective equipment, leading to contamination with ?black trolley grease, floor grime and bloody smears?. The records noted: ?The line was stopped for about 15 minutes. The carcasses were sent to be trimmed first then steam vacuumed with 180F water.?

On another occasion, an employee cleaned the factory floor with meat products on an adjacent conveyor belt, creating a mist that could contaminate the meat. ?This mist is contaminated by the inedible debris and ... comes into contact with edible product,? an inspector observed.

Pigs are seen in a factory farm December 2003 in northern Missouri.
Facebook Twitter Pinterest Pigs are seen in a factory farm December 2003 in northern Missouri. Photograph: Daniel Pepper/Getty Images
In a separate incident, a pig?s head was found to have partially covered a drain, leading to ?bloody waste water filling the area?. This and another blockage caused by a buildup of skin led to dirty water flooding other areas. ?Because of the plugged drains, an insanitary condition was created; the bloody water in the walkway could be splashed and carried throughout the kill floor after employees walked through the puddle,? an inspector wrote.

In a different part of the factory, inspectors found a stainless steel handwash sink ?plugged and approximately one-quarter full of standing bloody water with pieces of fat and meat. Production employees use this sink to clean and sanitise their hands and gloves. This creates an insanitary condition.?

In a statement, JBS, which owns Pilgrim?s and Swift Pork, said all of the violations recorded were ?immediately addressed? and that consumers were never put at risk. ?The US meat and poultry sector is one of the most highly regulated industries in America,? said Al Almanza, JBS?s global head of food safety and quality assurance, and former head of FSIS for 39 years. ?Non-compliance reports are issued by USDA [United States Department of Agriculture] inspection personnel to document when an establishment has not met a specific regulatory requirement. However, the vast majority of non-compliance issues are addressed immediately and have no impact on food safety.?

?All of the documented incidents regarding JBS [Swift Pork] and Pilgrim?s were immediately addressed by our facilities. None of these incidents put anyone at risk or resulted in any adulterated product released into commerce. Food safety is achieved by implementing processes that consistently detect and correct issues before products are released into commerce. Our team at JBS and Pilgrim?s is committed to the highest food safety standards and we partner with USDA each and every day to ensure that consumers can enjoy safe and quality products with confidence.?

Salmonella and other foodborne illnesses
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The US has shockingly high levels of foodborne illness, according to a new analysis by UK pressure group Sustain. It says that annually, around 14.7% (48 million people) of the US population is estimated to suffer from an illness, compared to around 1.5% (1 million) in the UK. In the US, 128,000 are hospitalised, and 3,000 die each year of foodborne diseases.

One bug, salmonella, causes around 1m illnesses per year in the US, while in the UK the numbers of officially recorded incidents is relatively low, with just under 10,000 laboratory confirmed cases in 2016. However, unreported incidents could substantially increase those numbers. Salmonella takes hold on farms and is found in the guts of poultry and livestock: farm animals and birds can become contaminated with faeces containing the bacteria during transport to abattoirs, where slaughter and processing procedures can also spread it.

Kath Dalmeny, chief executive of Sustain, said the figures underscored concerns about future US-UK trade deals: ?The US has already warned us that we will need to lower our food standards in exchange for a quick trade deal, but we need to fight this hard. They are desperate to sell us their chlorine-washed chicken, but we know chlorine and other unpalatable treatments can mask dirty meat, low hygiene standards and poor animal welfare, which the UK consumer will not stand for.

?In recent years, the UK meat, dairy and egg industries have improved food safety; so we should all be alarmed about any trade deal that opens up our market to products that undermine this progress.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Feb 18 - 09:39 AM

Or can you tell us of the 'research into the consequences' (of remaining) that you based your vote on?

Funnily enough, Nigel, yes I can. Firstly, even without predictions, we can take it as a fact that we would have remained part of the largest mutual trading organisation in the word. My children and grandchildren would have remained free to live and work anywhere in Europe. The NHS and businesses would not have to worry about staff levels. And lots more facts before we even move on to, secondly, the predictions. As we know, they are all bleak. You cannot come up with a single piece of good news yet you still voted to leave in the vague hope that it will all turn out for the best. In the light of such 'reasoning' it is apparent that any further discussion is futile.

Here is another prediction though. You will continue nitpicking. Iains will be abusive and Keith will remain being, well, just Keith. None of you will come up with any research giving good news to allay the fears of those that wish to remain.

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 21 Feb 18 - 09:10 AM

For some reason the article will not link. It can be found in todays Guardian and makes very poor reading.

One of the joys we can look forward to, post Brexit.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 21 Feb 18 - 08:56 AM

That looks to be a dead link (404)
Dead meat possibly?


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 21 Feb 18 - 08:48 AM

Would help if I attached the link!!


Meat from the USA


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 21 Feb 18 - 08:46 AM

In the post Brexit Nirvana that some would have us believe in we can look forward to this.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 21 Feb 18 - 08:12 AM

Everyone happy with the UK stance on the transition set out in Parliament today and leaked yesterday?


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 21 Feb 18 - 06:59 AM

The remoaners think the EU is a fossil organisation with no possibility of change, either by agenda or external influences.
Anyone with a half brain cell recognises the absurdity of such a position.
Such naivety would be quite touching if it were not so dangerous.
This is the reason enfranchisement is restricted to adults. Sadly some adults can also be a naif.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 21 Feb 18 - 06:49 AM

Oh I forgot to mention the 58 impact assessments that were commissioned by David Davis or the impact assessments that were commissioned into the economy by Philip Hammond!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 21 Feb 18 - 06:47 AM

So, no one but the brectums believe there will be any benefits then. There has been no research into the consequences yet you still voted for it. Blind faith has a lot to answer for.

In contrast, you, (I assume) voted to remain in the EU. Was this also in 'blind faith'? Or can you tell us of the 'research into the consequences' (of remaining) that you based your vote on?


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Feb 18 - 06:46 AM

By the way Keith - the Zionists did co-operate with the Nazis via the Haavara Agreement
The only question is whether they should have done
A JEWISH VIEW CAN BE FOUND HERE
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 21 Feb 18 - 06:44 AM

"There has been no serious research on the consequences of the Brexit deal, because the deal has yet to be made."

Brilliant, absolutely brilliant.

Right Lads, we're going to take this road, we don't know where it leads to, could be oblivion and complete hell, we don't really know, but we do want to take everyone else with us.

No we don't know if the Economy will suffer, no we don't know what will happen to unemployment figures, no we don't know what will happen to human rights, or the justice system, we don't know where we will buy goods, we don't even know who we will buy them from, we don't know who we will sell to or trade with but we believe this is the best path to take ......... what? evidence? Oh no we have no evidence to support this, no, no evidence at all but we know it is the best path.

Utterly, utterly naive.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Feb 18 - 06:37 AM

"Abusive to who Jim?"
To the right-wing Zionists who are now busy carrying out ethnic cleansing in Israel - "antisemitism" is denigrating the Jewish People
Whatever his faults, he can in no way be accused of doing that
It is not all things "bright and beautiful in the EU."
Nobody suggested it was Iains - on the contrary - the programme I referred to concentrated on what was happening in Europe
Brexit opened the doors to the rise of fascism by proving that a racist ticket was a sure-fire way of gaining support for divisive scapegoating policies.
Before the result, Austria gave the extreme right the boot - bow the fascists are gaining support everywhere
Pointing to Europe only underlines my point
Lat's be clear about the E.U. - all it is is a co-operative body of Capitalist States - nothing more
The only reason it has my support is that it is a stopgap measure to prevent a failing system from falling apart in such a manner as to make life even more unbearable for the various populations than they are already
For me, what happened in Greece is proof positive that it is in no way a panacea for all long-term ills.
There is also the added factor that member states are less likely to go to war with each other than are individual ones.
Short termism will have to do until a fair system comes along
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Feb 18 - 06:29 AM

So, no one but the brectums believe there will be any benefits then. There has been no research into the consequences yet you still voted for it. Blind faith has a lot to answer for.

DtG


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