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BS: Post Brexit life in the UK

Steve Shaw 16 Jul 18 - 12:27 PM
Jim Carroll 16 Jul 18 - 12:20 PM
Raggytash 16 Jul 18 - 12:11 PM
Iains 16 Jul 18 - 12:04 PM
Stanron 16 Jul 18 - 12:03 PM
Keith A of Hertford 16 Jul 18 - 11:58 AM
Jim Carroll 16 Jul 18 - 11:52 AM
DMcG 16 Jul 18 - 10:28 AM
Backwoodsman 16 Jul 18 - 09:56 AM
Iains 16 Jul 18 - 09:46 AM
Backwoodsman 16 Jul 18 - 09:17 AM
Steve Shaw 16 Jul 18 - 09:10 AM
Backwoodsman 16 Jul 18 - 08:27 AM
Keith A of Hertford 16 Jul 18 - 08:23 AM
Jim Carroll 16 Jul 18 - 08:17 AM
SPB-Cooperator 16 Jul 18 - 08:08 AM
Backwoodsman 16 Jul 18 - 07:25 AM
David Carter (UK) 16 Jul 18 - 07:01 AM
Jim Carroll 16 Jul 18 - 06:15 AM
Backwoodsman 16 Jul 18 - 06:02 AM
Jim Carroll 16 Jul 18 - 05:53 AM
Backwoodsman 16 Jul 18 - 05:49 AM
DMcG 16 Jul 18 - 05:49 AM
DMcG 16 Jul 18 - 05:48 AM
DMcG 16 Jul 18 - 05:47 AM
Backwoodsman 16 Jul 18 - 05:41 AM
Nigel Parsons 16 Jul 18 - 05:36 AM
Stanron 16 Jul 18 - 04:43 AM
Keith A of Hertford 16 Jul 18 - 04:29 AM
Iains 16 Jul 18 - 04:27 AM
Backwoodsman 16 Jul 18 - 03:37 AM
David Carter (UK) 16 Jul 18 - 03:04 AM
Iains 16 Jul 18 - 03:01 AM
DMcG 16 Jul 18 - 02:21 AM
DMcG 16 Jul 18 - 01:59 AM
DMcG 16 Jul 18 - 01:56 AM
Stanron 15 Jul 18 - 08:04 PM
Jim Carroll 15 Jul 18 - 07:38 PM
Raggytash 15 Jul 18 - 06:31 PM
Dave the Gnome 15 Jul 18 - 04:43 PM
Keith A of Hertford 15 Jul 18 - 04:07 PM
Raggytash 15 Jul 18 - 03:56 PM
Steve Shaw 15 Jul 18 - 03:50 PM
Raggytash 15 Jul 18 - 03:44 PM
Iains 15 Jul 18 - 03:10 PM
Jim Carroll 15 Jul 18 - 03:03 PM
Dave the Gnome 15 Jul 18 - 02:42 PM
Raggytash 15 Jul 18 - 02:12 PM
Keith A of Hertford 15 Jul 18 - 02:07 PM
Backwoodsman 15 Jul 18 - 01:50 PM

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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 12:27 PM

What political union? The 28 states are still independent countries, last time I heard. There are left-wing, right-wing, populist and a whole cornucopia of different regimes in Europe and I see no diminution of nationalism in any country that defends its national identity. The part of your post I quoted is just a routine piece of mindless brexiteer nonsense. You just about fell short of accusing "unelected Brussels bureaucrats imposing laws on us." It's just nonsense. No significant changes to overall EU policy can be made while we are able to exercise our veto. We have a big say in the formulation of all major EU laws and regulations and have disagreed with a vanishingly small number that ever managed to come into force. The best you managed there was a veiled insinuation that there's corruption afoot. Something about poor auditing. There may well be some poor financial management (up there with promising a billion to a bunch of terrorist sympathisers I suppose, or even wasting public money on a referendum and an ill-judged general election), but if you have evidence of deliberate EU corruption let's be having it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 12:20 PM

Thanks again Iains
Another for the list - keep 'em comin'
You realise you lifted that directly from something I posted yesterday
Nobody can ever accuse you of and excess of initiative and originality
"Where are the weasels?"
Perhaps they went "pop"
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 12:11 PM

Was anyone else aware at the time of the referendum that they were voting for a "hard" or "soft" Brexit.

I thought it was either we leave the EU or stay in the EU.

Presume I must be mistaken!


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 12:04 PM

"Let's face it, this guy and Mr T aren't exactly the brightest buttons on the SS uniform "
When young jimmie was a child, he thought like a child, Now he is in his dotage it seems he still thinks like a child!


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Stanron
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 12:03 PM

Steve Shaw wrote: Note the weasel words here.

Weasel words, but whose? Yours or mine? I made five points. Where are the weasels?

For instance, for which years has the EU presented fully audited accounts?

How was the EU not incompetent when it failed to offer reforms which could have reversed the outcome of the referendum?

Did you know when you voted back in the seventies, if you did, that the Economic Community was only a first step towards political union? I certainly didn't and had I known I would have voted against it. I am sure that most people would have done the same and I am equally sure that that was why we were not told.

My last statement in itself is proof of my next point. We were not allowed to vote on political union. Economic cooperation was acceptable and we were allowed to vote on it. Political Union was not acceptable so we weren't told. Dishonest and undemocratic.

The train wreck observation is my personal judgment. You may see it as a shining light, it might even be at the end of a tunnel.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 11:58 AM

But a lot of Brexiteers seem to believe where we seem to be heading is as bad if not worse than losing.

I see no evidence of that at all, unless you mean those who fear we are heading for a soft Brexit instead of what we voted for.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 11:52 AM

"There you go, Jim!"
Never lost faith in him fro a moment more predictable that No 14 buses
Let's face it, this guy and Mr T aren't exactly the brightest buttons on the SS uniform
Maybe one is the other on an off-day - wonder if the betting shop's still open!!
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 10:28 AM


Does not matter, brexiteers won, remainiacs lost.


The referendum, yes. But a lot of Brexiteers seem to believe where we seem to be heading is as bad if not worse than losing.

And surely where we end up is what matters?


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 09:56 AM

There you go, Jim!


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 09:46 AM

Does not matter, brexiteers won, remainiacs lost. Drivelling does not change this reality!


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 09:17 AM

Spot-on Steve.

Unfortunately the Union-Jack-Underpants and British-Bulldog-Tattoo Brigade aren't intellectually equipped to understand it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 09:10 AM

"The EU is undemocratic. We were never allowed to vote on stuff they reckoned we would reject. We cannot elect any of the people who originate policy."

Note the weasel words here. "We" can vote on all EU policy, and, indeed, we have the power of veto in many policy areas, unlike some smaller nations. We are one of the most influential nations when it comes to drawing up EU law and, out of thousands of laws or regulations brought into being since we joined, we have demurred on less than three percent of them - outvoted, not non-voted. There is no scheme for disallowing such votes. "The people who originate policy" are elected representatives acting on the suggestions, and only the suggestions, of commissioners. Those commissioners can't bring policy into being - which is what I understand by the word "originate," a word you apparently chose in order to obfuscate. You might as well accuse all UK governments of being undemocratic because they have unelected advisers suggesting policy to ministers. The EU is a large organisation with a necessarily large bureaucracy, but it's no less democratic than any of its member states. We get that you are a solid leaver, but if you wish to make your case it would help if you stuck to the facts.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 08:27 AM

"What next, I wonder"

With any luck, the abandonment of the flawed and completely failed BrexShit Experiment, a return by our government to the real business of running the U.K. for the benefit of all of its citizens, and taking a lead in the overhaul and reformation of the EU.

Oh, nearly forgot - an a GE to kick this corrupt and incompetent Tory government out of office for a very long time.

It's a dream, but it's considerably more realistic than 'Take are cuntry back' and lies on buses.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 08:23 AM

SPB, because all UK civil servants engaged in policy formation and UK policy think tanks only advise. The decision lies with ministers.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 08:17 AM

It's just been announced that Former Education Secretary, Justine Greening is calling for a second referendum on Brexit
She argues that the Remainers have never been happy at leaving and the Leavers believe that the current proposals are tantamount to staying in the EU
What next, I wonder
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 08:08 AM

"The EU is undemocratic. We were never allowed to vote on stuff they reckoned we would reject. We cannot elect any of the people who originate policy."

So if we leave the EU, how are you going to guarantee that all UK civil servants engaged in policy formation, UK policy think tanks etc will be democratically elected, or is it just foerigners you resent doing this????


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 07:25 AM

You could be right about his true identity, Jim. But the similarity of style, and the use of the same insults against the same people persuade me that they are one and the same. And he's never denied it, not once.

But I agree, one swallow a summer doth not make and, after a brief exchange of light-hearted banter, our mate will almost certainly revert to type. He can't help himself.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 07:01 AM

So Stanron, a series of lies about the EU and then "we are better off out". How about you instead provide a list of the positive benefits to be of leaving. Ones which outweigh the positives of the programmes I listed. Just how will I be better off outside of the EU?


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 06:15 AM

Feel free to continue to respond to him - it will save me trawling the other threads for his personal abuse to have enough here on hand (though I think there already a month or so's worth on tap)
I think you are wrong in identifying him as Teribus, by the way
Our former friend at least made the effort to present his bullshit with a veneer of so called 'facts'
This feller's boorish behaviour is just lazy loutishness based on hastily scooped info from morons like Guido Fawkes - totally devoid of effort
He's even lifted his insults directly from others (including Mr T)
He lacks his predecessor's energy and entertainment value
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 06:02 AM

You're right of course, Jim. However, on this occasion, and as one of the better spellers and users of English around here, I decided to treat Teribus's comment as a bit of light-hearted fun, and respond in like-manner. But I'm old enough and wise enough to respect the old adage about being wary of Greeks bearing gifts!


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 05:53 AM

"Not me, old fruit"
Hate to be the bearer of bad tidings Baccy - hoops and yet more hoops
This feller gets off on talking down to people from his intellectual hole in the ground
Responding to his supercilious abuse is feeding his peacockery
I'm poised on the verge om preparing yet another list of his seri8ally abusive bon mottes for yat another public viewing of where we are so far with him
I'm sure you know this already but, as you've saved me from my accesses on a number of occasions I thought I'd return the favour
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 05:49 AM

"BWM, your posts are still full of "shit." Is it a medical problem? Some variant of Tourette's?
Please heed DMcG who said, "remainers don't do themselves any favours if they just abuse leavers."
That is all you do."


No, that is not all I do. I make perfectly valid points and pose important question, to which your response is to either begin your belly-dancer gyrations in order to wriggle around them, or you simply ignore them completely.

And may I remind you (respectfully, or disrespectfully - I couldn't care less) of your frequent accusations of others, over the lives of many threads on this forum, of posting 'made-up shit'? It appears you're the one with Tourettes, or a very short memory.

People in glasshouses....


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 05:49 AM

More typos and autotext noise. Sorry.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 05:48 AM

... with the winner representing more than 50% of the voters.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 05:47 AM

I have seen some misrepresentations of the Justine Greening proposed votes, so to be clearing it is not a three way vote in the sense your MP election might be a three way bote between Labour, Liberal and Conservative. You are asked to rank all three outcomes and the least popular eliminated with its votes redistributed. This is a widely used voting system designed to end up with one choice qih


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 05:41 AM

"Do you need a few spelling lessons old chap?"

Not me, old fruit - I'm merely quoting some of the amusing mis-spellings perpetrated by Union-Flag bedecked, dumb-fuck Leave voters around Internet sites and forums since the Referendum (hence my quotation-marks). Hilarious that some of the most vocal protagonists of the 'Take Our Country Back' meme don't even have the intelligence or education to spell it correctly.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 05:36 AM

And now Justine Greening is calling for a second, three-way referendum:
1. Leave EU with no deal.
2. Leave EU with Mrs May's deal (although it has not yet been agreed by EU)
3. Stay as a member of EU (if they'll still have us, and on our former terms? or on harsher terms than previously?)


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Stanron
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 04:43 AM

Fist posted;

"Date: 01 Jul 18 - 12:49 PM

The EU is corrupt. It has failed to present accounts for goodness knows how long.
The EU is incompetent. Had the EU offered any kind of effective reform before the referendum we may not have voted to leave.
The EU is dishonest. When we last voted in the 70s it was about remaining in or leaving an economic community. The plan for political union existed then but was hidden. This was dishonest.
The EU is undemocratic. We were never allowed to vote on stuff they reckoned we would reject. We cannot elect any of the people who originate policy.
The EU is a train wreck in the process of happening.

We are seriously well off outside of it."

Sounds like a positive to me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 04:29 AM

There are pro-Brexit arguments in the Leave press every day, but Remainers here do not read them and Leavers do not bother to post them because that is not discussion.
Re another referendum, recent polling suggests that a majority want a hard-Brexit so no-one is being convinced by all the Remain doom-mongering.

BWM, your posts are still full of "shit." Is it a medical problem? Some variant of Tourette's?
Please heed DMcG who said, "remainers don't do themselves any favours if they just abuse leavers."
That is all you do.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 04:27 AM

"'Take are cuntry back', unicorns........ "

Do you need a few spelling lessons old chap?


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 03:37 AM

Ah but, ah but, ah but, 'Promised Land', 'Take are cuntry back', unicorns........


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 03:04 AM

Stanron claims to have posted negatives of EU membership, but the only one I can see in Stanron's posts is that the EU places tarriffs on foreign food. Which is largely not true and the EU has negotiated tariff free access to EU markets for many food producers, particularly those in the third world. which accounts for the wide variety of countries of origin you see on the labels on supermarket shelves. But when weighed against the positives of EU membership:

Tariff free access for European food
Frictionless trade across borders
Access to the vast European market for UK goods
Euratom
Horizon2020 and the predecessor Framework programmes
Erasmus
Opportunities for our young people to live, work and travel across a whole
    continent.
EHIC
ERDF
ESF

Stanron's negatives seem trivial indeed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 03:01 AM

Monty Python had it about right!


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 02:21 AM

One more point, before I leave for work!

No one knows what is going to happen in the next few weeks and months. There has been a lot of talk of elections and a second referendum, for example.

"Leave" won the last one by a few percentage points, and could win another by the same margin, perhaps. But if they want to be as sure as possible of winning, they need to persuade some who voted remain to vote leave should another referendum appear. So there is every reason for the leavers here to present arguments that might persuade remainers.

Equally, remainers don't do themselves any favours if they just abuse leavers.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 01:59 AM

I should have said "replaced by something less negative", of course put the point remains, you need to say what is replacing the negativea you eliminate.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 16 Jul 18 - 01:56 AM

A freedom from a negative is not a positive unless it is replaced by a positive. It can easily be replaced by a different negative.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Stanron
Date: 15 Jul 18 - 08:04 PM

Raggytash wrote: I do fine it rather strange Dave that not one single article or comment has been posted on this site that has been positive about any projected outcome of Brexit.

Not a single one, not in over two years, by any of the leave voters.

I repeat not a single one.
That can only be because you do not read and/or understand what people post. To put it simply, the freedom from multiple negatives is a multiplied positiive. I have posted earlier in this thread some of the negatives incurred in being part of the EU. Brexit will mean freedom from them.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Jul 18 - 07:38 PM

"Just linking to Remain articles from a Remain paper is not contributing."
Links here have come from every corner and shade of the press - Nigel pointed out that one came from the Telegraph
Nice to know that all the arguments are being read - gives you a warm feeling (in the throat)!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 15 Jul 18 - 06:31 PM

I do fine it rather strange Dave that not one single article or comment has been posted on this site that has been positive about any projected outcome of Brexit.

Not a single one, not in over two years, by any of the leave voters.

I repeat not a single one.

It would seem that every commentator, business magnate, financial authority is wary or even very dubious of out move out of the EU.

Well, I suppose we can live in hope which seems to be all the Brexiteers can offer us although I have to say I am not at all confident in their hopes.

Perhaps just one of them, one with an ounce of intelligence, could supply us with something to be hopeful about.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Jul 18 - 04:43 PM

I cannot find any pro brexit arguments by any living economists who are peer checked, have degrees at Oxbridge universities and have their work published in mainstream book shops. Can anyone help?

:D tG


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Jul 18 - 04:07 PM

Rag,
Not once have you made any argument against anything contained in those links and now you have the temerity to suggest I do not contribute.

Just linking to Remain articles from a Remain paper is not contributing.
There are just as many pro-Brexit articles in the Leave press, but the argument is already won. Why bother?


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 15 Jul 18 - 03:56 PM

PS Iains,

you don't help your argument one iota by posting such names as Raggedttash, those are the sort of comment I associate with people of very limited intelligence.

You may understand who I am referring to! :-)

Cheers

Anyway it's time for some music once again !! I've brought my 12 string out tonight!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jul 18 - 03:50 PM

You haven't a clue as to what's being ignored and what isn't, you arrogant bugger. Sometimes I agree with posts so fully that I feel there's no more to be said, therefore I don't say it. Sensible people here don't always need their mates to say "me too." Grow up.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 15 Jul 18 - 03:44 PM

Hmmm Iains,

I presume there no little,if any, response was because people like yourself could not generate a single reasoned argument to counter what is being said by hundreds of financial, business and political commentators, some of whom could be considered experts in their field.

However you could prove me wrong by posting from people in similiar postions who can provide some good forecasts.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 15 Jul 18 - 03:10 PM

Raggedttash Sensible comments generate sensible responses. As you have no doubt noticed, much of the time your comments are totally ignored. This should tell you something.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Jul 18 - 03:03 PM

"How can there be any news?"
Brexit has not happened.
Remainers keep making bad forecasts."
ONLY REMAINERS - YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS !!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Jul 18 - 02:42 PM

Another one that should be completely ignored, Raggy. You cannot reason with the unreasonable.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 15 Jul 18 - 02:12 PM

Iains re your post of 04.19, In the past weeks, months, nay last two years I have posted numerous comments against our leaving the EU together with numerous links to my sources.

Not once have you made any argument against anything contained in those links and now you have the temerity to suggest I do not contribute.

I would, politely, request that you post something that remainers could consider to be good news.

However I will not hold my breath.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Jul 18 - 02:07 PM

Brexit has not happened. How can there be any news?
Remainers keep making bad forecasts. That is not news.
Leavers do not bother because they have already won. We are leaving.

Having said that, The Sunday Times article I quoted earlier was very positive.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Jul 18 - 01:50 PM

Repeat after me, Dave - "There. Is. No. Good. BrexShit. News".


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