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BS: Post Brexit life in the UK

Dave the Gnome 18 Dec 17 - 01:11 PM
Iains 18 Dec 17 - 01:10 PM
Jim Carroll 18 Dec 17 - 12:08 PM
Nigel Parsons 18 Dec 17 - 11:21 AM
Jim Carroll 18 Dec 17 - 11:05 AM
Nigel Parsons 18 Dec 17 - 10:59 AM
Steve Shaw 18 Dec 17 - 10:46 AM
Nigel Parsons 18 Dec 17 - 10:44 AM
Steve Shaw 18 Dec 17 - 10:27 AM
Nigel Parsons 18 Dec 17 - 09:36 AM
peteaberdeen 18 Dec 17 - 09:18 AM
peteaberdeen 18 Dec 17 - 09:09 AM
Nigel Parsons 18 Dec 17 - 09:03 AM
Keith A of Hertford 18 Dec 17 - 08:48 AM
Jim Carroll 18 Dec 17 - 05:17 AM
Nigel Parsons 18 Dec 17 - 04:56 AM
Backwoodsman 18 Dec 17 - 04:54 AM
Keith A of Hertford 18 Dec 17 - 04:14 AM
Keith A of Hertford 18 Dec 17 - 04:09 AM
Backwoodsman 17 Dec 17 - 03:22 PM
peteaberdeen 17 Dec 17 - 02:15 PM
Backwoodsman 17 Dec 17 - 01:45 PM
Jim Carroll 17 Dec 17 - 01:24 PM
Backwoodsman 17 Dec 17 - 01:04 PM
Keith A of Hertford 17 Dec 17 - 12:29 PM
Backwoodsman 17 Dec 17 - 07:08 AM
Backwoodsman 17 Dec 17 - 07:01 AM
Keith A of Hertford 17 Dec 17 - 04:46 AM
McGrath of Harlow 16 Dec 17 - 05:59 PM
peteaberdeen 16 Dec 17 - 05:43 PM
Steve Shaw 15 Dec 17 - 06:11 PM
Donuel 15 Dec 17 - 05:34 PM
Stanron 15 Dec 17 - 04:31 PM
Steve Shaw 15 Dec 17 - 03:14 PM
DMcG 15 Dec 17 - 03:04 PM
Stanron 15 Dec 17 - 01:31 PM
Backwoodsman 15 Dec 17 - 01:20 PM
Iains 15 Dec 17 - 01:18 PM
Keith A of Hertford 15 Dec 17 - 01:01 PM
Jim Carroll 15 Dec 17 - 12:38 PM
Keith A of Hertford 15 Dec 17 - 11:20 AM
Backwoodsman 15 Dec 17 - 10:27 AM
Jim Carroll 15 Dec 17 - 10:20 AM
Steve Shaw 15 Dec 17 - 09:37 AM
Keith A of Hertford 15 Dec 17 - 09:04 AM
Steve Shaw 15 Dec 17 - 08:53 AM
Iains 15 Dec 17 - 08:53 AM
Keith A of Hertford 15 Dec 17 - 08:43 AM
Stanron 15 Dec 17 - 06:58 AM
Jim Carroll 14 Dec 17 - 08:56 AM
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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Dec 17 - 01:11 PM

He got you good and proper BWM :-) Those hoops were high and you went and jumped through them. We all make the same mistake periodically though so I can understand it.

I though the proper coded response was 'TC' though ;-)

On a more serious note, it is becoming obvious the longer that thread goes on that the the brexiteers are running shit scared of being proven to have made the wrong choice. The arguments as to why we should still leave are getting more and more ludicrous as the imminent disaster looms ever closer. Just you watch, as and when the disaster does occur they will blame those wishing to remain in the EU for being unpatriotic and wishing the disaster on us.

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 18 Dec 17 - 01:10 PM

"we've acted like petulant schoolboys moaning and groaning about how much we have to pay, etc., and about all those other illusory issues"

A typical response from one who has suckled from the trough of public largesse all his life.

Nothing illusory about dosh when earned by the sweat of your brow stevie boy. But you would know nothing about that would you?
That rose tinted corbyn dreamworld you inhabit has lost all contact with reality. I can see no other way to explain the inanity of your incessant witterings.
Never mind. one day you will wake up and realise your stupidity.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Dec 17 - 12:08 PM

"If you actually read the link you made, it relates to a period before the Brexit vote."
The Brexit vote was sold and carried on a racist ticket - that same racism existed before the event and continues - they are two events linked by ongoing racism in Britain
As far as the Lawrence murder is concerned, the police have insisted that they cleaned up their act - obviously not the case
Maybe I should have written Another aspect of the Brexit mentality....
Same thing in the long run - especially to the victims
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 18 Dec 17 - 11:21 AM

From: Jim Carroll - PM
Date: 18 Dec 17 - 11:05 AM

Another aspect of Brexit appears to be that INSTITUTIONAL RACISM has now become an aspect of British life
Jim Carroll


Nice try Jim.
If you actually read the link you made, it relates to a period before the Brexit vote.

And claims about the police being institutionally racist have been around since at least 1999 Here


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Dec 17 - 11:05 AM

Another aspect of Brexit appears to be that INSTITUTIONAL RACISM has now become an aspect of British life
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 18 Dec 17 - 10:59 AM

/rant/
verb

1.speak or shout at length in an angry, impassioned way.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Dec 17 - 10:46 AM

In what sense is that post a rant, please?


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 18 Dec 17 - 10:44 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw - PM
Date: 18 Dec 17 - 10:27 AM


Another long, unstructured rant, which makes it difficult to respond to in any structured way.

Basically it appears that Steve's view is predicated on the fact that he is one of the 16.1 million voters who fully understood all the matters to do with the relationship between the EU and UK, and voted to retain that relationship, and head towards ever closer union.

I, on the other hand seem to be one of the 17.4 million who were incapable of understanding the nuances of the arguments being made. Either that, or I was being wilfully racist.

It's very difficult to argue with logic like that!


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Dec 17 - 10:27 AM

Accentuating the negative is oh so easy. All you need to do is throw out a few snippets that are predicated on untruthfulness. A few phrases such as "unelected bureaucrats in Brussels," "the EU gravy train," "taking back control," "immigrants driving down wages," "immigrants straining our public services," "ever closer union," "stealing our sovereignty," add more of your own. Not one of those is based on a honest assessment of where we are today as EU members. The positives are not so black and white and far more easily demolished by little-Englander ignorance (which has generated all the above). The fact that we are a major member of a huge free-trading bloc with whom we do half our trade in goods. The fact that we are a leading financial services centre not only in Europe but in the world: there are plenty of financial institutions in the EU who are now licking their lips at the prospect of grabbing big lumps of that for themselves once the bureaucracy has hobbled us after brexit. The fact that, because you can't be in the EU unless you sign up to democracy, human rights and the rule of law, we don't have wars in Europe any more. There's a lot wrong with the EU. The EU fisheries and agricultural policies are great ideas gone bad. The bureaucracy is definitely unwieldy and top-heavy. An EU army is just a bloody bad idea. The common currency was a deal that an average sixth-former could have told you would never work properly. But as a big, influential member of the club we should be right in there fighting for reform. Instead, for decades we've acted like petulant schoolboys moaning and groaning about how much we have to pay, etc., and about all those other illusory issues I started this post with. The EU both needs us and will be glad to see the back of us. There'll be nothing much glad in this country once we're out.

As Pete said to Nigel, "you are one of the 17 million folk who have swallowed all this crap over the years so now feel justified in voting against their own and the country's best interests."

I actually think that most people now realise that brexit goes solidly against this county's interests. "Not liking foreigners" simply doesn't cut it. Trade will be difficult and finding new trading partners to do deals with will be hard, considering that we don't make much stuff and a lot of what we do make can't compete with the likes of China with its vast production scales and cheap labour. The services sector which is over three-quarters of our economy will be badly hit by levels of bureaucracy so far unheard of. We will have skilled labour shortages all over the economy as EU workers increasingly find this country a very unattractive place to come to, if they can get in at all. We've already discovered, surprise surprise, that we may be able to control people coming in but we can't control them leaving. EU citizens are already voting with their feet. I'm not voting for people who put political posturing above the interests of this country, and that includes Jeremy Corbyn, who, instead of putting up a feisty opposition to brexit and presenting the country with a genuine alternative, seems to have become totally paralysed. The interests of this country are far more important than sticking to ridiculous and pusillanimous standpoints such as "we must abide by the will of the people." As even Nigel has pointed out, it was just over a third who expressed that will. Another third expressed the opposite and just under another third kept schtum. That is not an overwhelming mandate to take all of us, especially the young, to hell in a handcart, and the sooner the politicos man up and starting bravely telling us the truth the better.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 18 Dec 17 - 09:36 AM

From: peteaberdeen - PM
Date: 18 Dec 17 - 09:09 AM
do you really have trust in the tories to handle this well? wouldn't you (secretly) rather the grown ups in the european parliament were left to handle the important decisions (climate change, human rights, international security etc) with full input from a confident and positive UK government?


No, I don't necessarily trust the Conservative Party to handle this well.
But I certainly don't trust those that you describe as "The grown ups in the European parliament" to handle such matters.
"International Security"? Greece is the only EU country (apart from UK) which spends more than 2% GDP on defence: From the EU's own site here: Defence spending
As for intelligence related to Security, UK is in a stronger position that Europe, thanks to being part of the "Five Eyes" for details see The Guardian

So while I may not trust those running the UK, I still believe that the country has a better future outside of the EU.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: peteaberdeen
Date: 18 Dec 17 - 09:18 AM

keith - of course there were and still are some labour brexiteers. corbyn, like theresa may and many other top politicians is having to curb his instincts for the sake of some party unity. (for what it's worth i have always felt it was too much of a rich man's club and would like to have seen a lot more progressive policies on workers' rights and the environment. i have always admired their achievements on keeping the peace and improving living standards by cooperating with their neighbours) i guess corbyn, like anyone, would rather not be run by this crazed and chaotic tory party and would rather stay in a close relationship with europe and not have to rely on the USA and imaginary trade deals.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: peteaberdeen
Date: 18 Dec 17 - 09:09 AM

nigel, there as been a right-wing agenda for a long time in the press which is consistently hostile to any continental european initiative and frequently descends into straightforward racism. i guess this was partly inspired back in the '70s with talk of the social chapter - guaranteeing workers' and human rights - bosses and shareholders hate that sort of lefty nonsense. the tiny group i referred to own the media (and the money) and spread their poisonous message everywhere. you are one of the 17 million folk who have swallowed all this crap over the years so now feel justified in voting against their own and the country's best interests. i don't know how old you are, so you may not feel the effects of this brexit adventure - but i'll bet your children won't thank you for your decision.
do you really have trust in the tories to handle this well? wouldn't you (secretly) rather the grown ups in the european parliament were left to handle the important decisions (climate change, human rights, international security etc) with full input from a confident and positive UK government?


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 18 Dec 17 - 09:03 AM

From: Jim Carroll - PM
Date: 15 Dec 17 - 12:38 PM

"Not on Europe."
Wha????
Don't understand that at all
When heve the British people ever been asked to vote on Europe other than the referendum which was sold on the idea of getting rid of foreigners?


1975


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Dec 17 - 08:48 AM

BWM
When you say something worth responding to

You do respond, but only with personal abuse.
You clearly can not articulate an actual arument.

And, do not be afraid of my "I'll-(sic)concealed traps."
I do not set any. I am too feeble minded!

I suggest a deal.
You stop making insulting personal attacks against me, and I will stop replying to them.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Dec 17 - 05:17 AM

THere's a move within the Tory Party to persuade May-Blossom to stat on till 2021 to avoid a split in the party - as if thy hadn't made the British people suffer enough already
Personally, I hope she does - that should **** up their chances for the foreseeable future
Mind you - 'How Much Does that Moggy in Westminster' and 'Braindead Boris' will do just as well..... choices, choices!!!
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 18 Dec 17 - 04:56 AM

From: peteaberdeen - PM
Date: 17 Dec 17 - 02:15 PM
.Brexit was a silent coup by a tiny cabal of extreme right wing zealots, sold on lies and xenophobia financed by foreign tax dodging billionaire plutocrats' Everyone knows (really, if we are being honest) it's going to be shit for the UK and on a personal, social level, needlessly destructive. just pack it in, eh?


"A silent coup"? It was the main news in nearly every form of media for a long period. Hardly 'silent'.
"A tiny cabal of extreme right wing zealots"? Actually 17+million people, which, as more than a third of the total electorate can hardly be described as 'extreme right wing'.
"sold on lies and xenophobia financed by foreign tax dodging billionaire plutocrats' "? where the remain campaign was largely financed from the public purse. Why should 17 million of us have paid towards posting out propaganda (which we disagreed with) to the whole population?


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 18 Dec 17 - 04:54 AM

"That nicely confirms what I said, "When you can not make a case or challenge anything I actually say, you resort to baseless personal abuse. "

Only in your feeble, fetid imagination.
When you say something worth responding to, I'll respond. In the meantime, have fun with your deceitful drivel, your I'll-concealed trap-setting, and schoolyard-game playing...you really are what Musket said you are.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Dec 17 - 04:14 AM

BWM, so the best non-feeble minded non-drivelling argument you can make is "GTFU."

That nicely confirms what I said, "When you can not make a case or challenge anything I actually say, you resort to baseless personal abuse. "


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Dec 17 - 04:09 AM

So there never were any Labour brexiteers?
I thought there were.
I even thought that Corbyn was once anti-EU.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Dec 17 - 03:22 PM

Precisely,Pete. It's only the feeble-minded and the brainwashed who don't understand that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: peteaberdeen
Date: 17 Dec 17 - 02:15 PM

.Brexit was a silent coup by a tiny cabal of extreme right wing zealots, sold on lies and xenophobia financed by foreign tax dodging billionaire plutocrats' Everyone knows (really, if we are being honest) it's going to be shit for the UK and on a personal, social level, needlessly destructive. just pack it in, eh?


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Dec 17 - 01:45 PM

ROTFLMAO, Jim! The Biter Bit! :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Dec 17 - 01:24 PM

"GTFU."
Stop feeding the troll !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Dec 17 - 01:04 PM

GTFU.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Dec 17 - 12:29 PM

So you can not find any example to put up of "drivel" from me, or of me being "feeble minded."

When you can not make a case or challenge anything I actually say, you resort to baseless personal abuse.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Dec 17 - 07:08 AM

Keefy, your drivel is here in abundance, on the thread. If anyone is insane enough to want to see it, they can look down the list of postings at the top of the thread, and pick out any of your posts. There is no reason whatsoever for me to waste time and effort demonstrating it in further posts.

Now, AFAIC, you are completely Persona Non Grata, so I suggest you concentrate on playing your schoolyard games with, and setting your childish, easily-detected traps for, someone else.

In other words, go away.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Dec 17 - 07:01 AM

Good post from Steve, 15 Dec 17 - 06:11 PM.

The idea that laws are forced on member states by a completely autonomous, unelected body in 'Europe', without any deiscussion, consultation, or meaningful vote, was one of the biggest of the many deceits thrust at us by the BrexShiteers during the campaign. And, of course, the U.K. is one of only nine member-states which has the power of veto over many areas of policy.

Yet the feeble-minded Daily-Fail and Scum readers are still blathering about 'Europe' **making all our laws**.

And, of course, the best laugh for years is the BrexShitters outrage that, having campaigned to 'restore parliamentary democracy' in the U.K., parliament has voted to uphold parliamentary democracy by having a debate and vote on the final BrexShit agreement! What a bunch of cocks.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Dec 17 - 04:46 AM

BWM,
in view of the ludicrous drivel you've posted on this thread and the Damien Green thread,

I ask you again.
Please provide an example of such drivel.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Dec 17 - 05:59 PM

We are not a member of the US.

True enough. We are a client state rather than a member state. What we used to call, in relation to the USSR, a satellite state.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: peteaberdeen
Date: 16 Dec 17 - 05:43 PM

that all seems entirely reasonable, steve. however, i can remember during the debate on the brexit vote no-one wanting to leave was interested in 'reason' or 'facts' and mocked the opinions of experts or suspicious intellectuals. you would have thought that given the shambles of the last 18 months and the fact that the costs and difficulties of leaving the EU become more apparent every day that most people would have started to appreciate a bit of common market sense. it ain't happening though - in fact the complexity of the whole business seems too much for people to understand or even engage in. so it's left to the elected politicians, career bureaucrats, suspicious lefties and traitorous professionals to do all the hard analysis that they (we) never wanted to do anyway. no wonder that leavers are suspicious of remainers' motives - they should be.
i suspect that they will lose interest and drift off to some other new moral outrage to bang on about and the serious minds involved can legislate the exit away, drop the subject and sneakily (keep it quiet!) stay in with some meaningless trinkets (you can have bent bananas again! isn't britain great?) to appease the gullible and bored. hope so anyway


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Dec 17 - 06:11 PM

The EU can't be viewed as a democracy in the same way as the member states because it isn't a state. In effect, it's a bureaucracy that sets rules and regulations according to the wishes of its member states (each of which has a veto over major decisions, your European army being a case in point). The European Commission does not pass laws or impose rules on member states. It can only act on the mandate of member states, each of which has a minister in the Council of Ministers and each of which elects MEPs to the European Parliament. These are the bodies that make EU laws. Many laws, in order to be passed, require a majority of at least 18 states with at least two-thirds of the EU population. We have a big say as we have 13% of the EU population. The vast majority of EU are laws that the UK overwhelmingly agrees with in any case. Major issues such as the formation of an EU army are vulnerable to veto by just one state. That's why there's no EU army: the UK has vetoed it. One that the UK "lost" was the EU law restricting bankers' bonuses. Poor George Osborne was beaten on that one. What a shame, eh?

If there's a democratic deficit in the EU, it's driven in part by people of your ilk, Stanron, what with you lot constantly moaning about unelected bureaucrats in Brussels forcing laws on us, gravy trains (you could usefully ask your mate Farage about that), ever-closer union, United States of Europe, etc. No wonder people listening to all that ignorant claptrap don't bother to turn out to vote in European elections. That's where the democratic deficit truly is: peddle nonsense to the electorate in order to turn them off and keep them ignorant. Of course, you're experts at it. After all, you did precisely the same thing in the referendum campaign, the event with the biggest democratic deficit this country has ever seen.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Dec 17 - 05:34 PM

In America they are calling the impending firing of our Secretary of State Rex Tillerson "Rexit"

Trump hates diplomacy. He wants to attack Korea preferably after they seem to attack first.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Stanron
Date: 15 Dec 17 - 04:31 PM

I am afraid that what you detested in Portugal, Spain, Greece, Romania, Hungary, Bulgaria and the Balkan states will be at the heart of the future EU. There will be the
apparency of Democracy. Everyone will get to vote, but only the select few at the top will really control what happens. No one votes them in so no one can vote them out. You said "The EU insists on democracy in its member states, on human rights and on the rule of law". They get that in the member states but not in the EU that sits over the member states. All the MEPs can vote on is proposals from the Commission. The Commission are not elected and cannot be voted out. They are insulated from any kind of democracy. Only the Commission decides overall policy for the EU. At it's heart the EU is not a democracy. It's a sham democracy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Dec 17 - 03:14 PM

What complete nonsense, Stanron. The EU insists on democracy in its member states, on human rights and on the rule of law. Before they joined the EU, many countries, in your lifetime and mine, had none of that. Portugal, Spain, Greece, Romania, Hungary, Bulgaria and the Balkan states were all ruled by regimes that you and I would have detested and which are never coming back - because they are members of the EU.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 15 Dec 17 - 03:04 PM

An old article for a different trade deal, but it would be relevant if we went for a 'Canada plus plus plus' deal. It raises lots of problems about sovereignty if companies can sue governments and some other court is higher than the government concerned.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Stanron
Date: 15 Dec 17 - 01:31 PM

I am not opposed to an EU army, or closer political and economic unity, so long as the UK is not involved. Europe, historically, has had a predilection to more totalitarian forms of government than the UK. Let them get on with it. Looking at the way the EU has evolved it may well turn into something as democratic as the Catholic Church. There, there is democracy for the Cardinals but the less informed are kept away from decision making. The EU has an apparency of democracy but the EU Parliament only gets to vote on what the top few ex member state rulers tell them they can vote on. Look at these top few ex state presidents, opposition leaders and prime ministers as an equivalent to the Papacy's Cardinals and the picture might become clear. The EU might end up as democratic as China is right now.

We are well out of it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Dec 17 - 01:20 PM

Whether our governments chose to challenge the EU or not is completely irrelevant - the U.K. Parliamentary Sovereignty has always existed, it is the foundation of our own democracy, and a founding principle of tHe European Union.

I repeat...get an education, you thick, feeble-minded wazzock. I used to defend you when Musket called you TC. On reflection, and in view of the ludicrous drivel you've posted on this thread and the Damien Green thread, as well as a great many others, I'm persuaded to agree with him.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 15 Dec 17 - 01:18 PM

We have always had parliamentary sovereignty, the principle of the sovereignty of individual member-nations' parliaments taking precedence over any collective sovereignty of the EU is one of the founding principles of the EU.

I think the Lisbon Treaty punched a few holes in that mistaken idea.
Maybe you are the wazzock and feeble minded and in need of an education.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Dec 17 - 01:01 PM

When heve the British people ever been asked to vote on Europe other than the referendum which was sold on the idea of getting rid of foreigners?

Our ruling elite never gave them the chance.
Then UKIP came along, won the EU election and promised a referendum if they won the general election.
Suddenly the Establishment parties agreed to offer one too.

All the economic institutions warned against leaving and some are now pointing out how right they were

Most of their predictions have proved wrong. They are all Establishment bodies, supporting the Establishment determination to keep us in.

Gibberish when you remember the poodle like behavior of Britain towards the Us - including and especially the racist and misogynist thug who now occupies the White House

We are not a member of the US.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Dec 17 - 12:38 PM

"Not on Europe."
Wha????
Don't understand that at all
When heve the British people ever been asked to vote on Europe other than the referendum which was sold on the idea of getting rid of foreigners?
All the economic institutions warned against leaving and some are now pointing out how right they were
Weren't they just?
"Leavers believe in sovereignty of our Parliament, but not when Parliament demands to give that away."
Gibberish when you remember the poodle like behavior of Britain towards the Us - including and especially the racist and misogynist thug who now occupies the White House
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Dec 17 - 11:20 AM

Up to now the people have been very pro- the ruling elite - go look at how they vote

Not on Europe.

Thwey voted for Brexit because the ruling elite persuaded them

The ruling elite, barring a few renegades, tried very hard to persuade them to vote Remain.

BWM,
We have always had parliamentary sovereignty,

No. Most of our laws were made in Brussels.
Our Parliamentarians never rocked the boat by challenging anything.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Dec 17 - 10:27 AM

"The Establishment did not care about Parliamentary Sovereignty when Brussels made our laws, but now they demand it to thwart what their electorate want."

We have always had parliamentary sovereignty, the principle of the sovereignty of individual member-nations' parliaments taking precedence over any collective sovereignty of the EU is one of the founding principles of the EU.

Get an education, you thick, feeble-minded wazzock.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Dec 17 - 10:20 AM

"The ruling elite were always pro EU.
That was why the people demanded a referendum."
Utter nonsense
Up to now the people have been very pro- the ruling elite - go look at how they vote
Thwey voted for Brexit because the ruling elite persuaded them that foreigners were taking their jobs - a major factor in the Brexit referendum
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Dec 17 - 09:37 AM

Well I guess that the good ship UK will just float out into the Sargasso Sea then, Keith.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Dec 17 - 09:04 AM

But we're going to get one now.

No, they are.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Dec 17 - 08:53 AM

Well, Stanron, the irony is that there WILL be a European army, there WILL be more fiscal uniformity and there WILL be moves to a closer union - because we're leaving. Those things could not happen with us as a member. In fact, we alone have thwarted plans for that army. We have the veto you mentioned. We won't have it any more though. Dunno about you, but the last thing I want to see is a European army. But we're going to get one now.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 15 Dec 17 - 08:53 AM

Stanron. A very accurate summary!


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Dec 17 - 08:43 AM

The ruling elite were always pro EU.
That was why the people demanded a referendum.
The Establishment did not care about Parliamentary Sovereignty when Brussels made our laws, but now they demand it to thwart what their electorate want.

Leavers believe in sovereignty of our Parliament, but not when Parliament demands to give that away.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Stanron
Date: 15 Dec 17 - 06:58 AM

Of course Brexit will happen. The UK was always going to veto a United States of Europe, closer political and financial uniformity and a European Army. The down side of the UK leaving would be the loss of it's financial contribution but, as we can all see, nothing was allowed to progress until a financial deal was done. Now the EU can continue down it's ideologically preferred path unopposed by it's second largest money source. The smaller EU members can now be individually bullied into accepting closer political convergence as they no longer have adequate financial clout. The EU has to put on a show of being tough and in control but the truth is they will bend over backwards to see us gone.

Merry Mithras.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Dec 17 - 08:56 AM

"I think you should both prepare to be disappointed."
As long as they're not feeling as disappointed as you lot must be feeling this morning
A second referendum has already been mooted.... surely nobody will support a rerun of this turkey!!
Jim Carroll


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