BS: Post Brexit life in the UK

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 May 18 - 09:22 AM

Leave.EU campaign fined £70,000 for breaking election law

More to come as well.

Through its investigation, the watchdog said it had also uncovered “reasonable grounds to suspect” that Ms Bilney committed criminal offences and that she had been referred to the Met as a result.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UKq
From: DMcG
Date: 11 May 18 - 07:23 AM

I am not crowing, Nigel. Rather, it puts me in mind of Banquo's speech; "Thou hast is now: King, Cawdor, Glamis, all, As the Weird Women promis'd; and I fear, Thou play'dst most foully for't."

The vote was what it was. Even if it is shown that illegal acts were performed in getting us to this point, the fact remains this is where we are. We should punish anyone who acted illegally, but the negotiations carry on.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 11 May 18 - 03:29 AM

DMcG:
You may be reading something into that article which isn't there, or I may be missing something in it.
It does not state anywhere that it is in relation to the 12 million mentioned in the earlier quote.
In fact, the earlier quote makes clear: But the disclosure, at a time when Electoral Commission investigations into leave campaign financing are continuing, will raise serious concerns about the ease with which laws restricting campaign spending can potentially be circumvented
So is the fine mentioned today in relation to the 12 million? or to the investigations in general?

The Commission has already been shown as ready to investigate any complaints about LeaveEU spending, while not investigating spending by the Remain team. And in response to the fine (from today's article):
Leave.EU co-founder Arron Banks called it a "politically motivated attack".
Responding to the Electoral Commission's findings, he said: "What a shambles, we will see them in court."

I think we should wait to see exactly how this plays out before anyone starts crowing.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 11 May 18 - 03:16 AM

To be precise Nigel, the article reports they claimed that they had taken steps to ensure they abided by the regulations. It looks as if not everyone thinks they succeeded.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 10 May 18 - 08:27 AM

Hi Nigel, I can quite easily do links thank you, however it is not as easy on my tablet when sitting in a bar (with dodgy internet connections) on the West coast of Ireland listening to music and/or drinking.

But thank you for your kind consideration.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 10 May 18 - 08:21 AM

If the USA are going to sanction countries trading with Iran, as has been declared by President Twittler, how will our super deals with the USA fare?
Obviously much better then to be part of EU, which is also going to continue trading with Iran, and thus also be unable to be sanctioned by the US :)

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 10 May 18 - 08:16 AM

So having found the link to the Leave.EU funding matter, what are your thoughts about it, Nigel?
For once a fairly balance article. It makes clear that while this is being put about as dodgy payment, care has been taken to ensure it did not infringe the referendum guidelines.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 10 May 18 - 07:31 AM

So having found the link to the Leave.EU funding matter, what are your thoughts about it, Nigel?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 May 18 - 07:01 AM

I searched for "Leave EU 12 million Guardian" and there it was right at the top. No guesswork involved. Anyway, back to the issues.

If the USA are going to sanction countries trading with Iran, as has been declared by President Twittler, how will our super deals with the USA fare?

Looks like we are going to pull out of Europe, continue trading with Iran and strike up wonderful trans-Atlantic deals. And for my next trick...

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 10 May 18 - 06:32 AM

Dave, maybe you had a lucky guess as to what to search for. I tried a few options from his post before deciding I couldn't find it.

He may have problems with his tablet, but if he wants others to make links it would make sense if he did his best to make that easier for them.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 May 18 - 03:55 AM

Here you go, Raggy.

Arron Banks company provided £12m of services to Leave.EU

Nigel. I know that Raggy often posts using a tablet which, although not impossible, is difficult to do links on. I found the article from Raggy's description as the first link from one single Google search. Maybe you could try to learn how to use Google before offering other people advice on the web? :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 10 May 18 - 03:43 AM

Sorry, I've tried, but can't find that article from the information given.
Have you tried learning to do links?
If you can't (due to system restrictions) why not quote an exact headline to make it easier to search for?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 09 May 18 - 06:33 PM

Murky financial arrangements by the LeaveEU group it has been reported. Apparently they received #12 million pounds worth of "administrative" services prior to the referendum.

Could someone please provide a link to the Guardian article.

Cheers

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 08 May 18 - 05:36 PM

Even worse, he may one day be PM!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 May 18 - 01:21 PM

"He has the full support of Number Ten" is the usual political speak for "He's doomed, any day now." We live in hope. Trouble is, the eejit thinks he's unsackable.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 May 18 - 01:03 PM

Completely agree, Raggy.
The term 'Loose, looney cannon' comes to mind.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 08 May 18 - 11:46 AM

I cannot ever recall a Foreign Secretary of any party describing his/her leaders plans as crazy. As far as I am aware it is unheard of.

The phrase "loose cannon" comes to mind.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 May 18 - 11:33 AM

Oops, pressed the 'go' button too soon. Meant to say, 'Party Unity is Paramount', don'cha know?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 May 18 - 11:28 AM

Don't get excited, Raggy - the Tory gutter-press will come up with some more lies about JC to distract the feeble-minded, more gullible members of the public, and the Bozo thing will be swept under the carpet.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 08 May 18 - 11:12 AM

Oh dear,oh dear. Dissention within the Tory ranks.

Johnsons evaluation of Terasa May Customs plan is:

"that it is not "thats not taking back control of your trade policy, thats not taking back control of your law, it's not taking back control of your borders and it's not actually taking back control of your money either because tariffs would get paid centrally back to Brussels"

The next few days could be quite interesting!!

Any good news stories yet?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 08 May 18 - 07:45 AM

Neither do I, but I can see the hand of the EU pushing for something that might require a united Ireland, as a way of frustrating Brexit.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 08 May 18 - 07:32 AM

That's interesting. The Northern Ireland Executive includes the First Minister who is DUP of course. I don't see them pushing for a united Ireland.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 08 May 18 - 07:26 AM

"What of the idea?"

I don't like it. It looks like an attempt to manoeuvre the whole of Ireland into being part of the EU. I prefer the view of the government spokeswoman which is shown in that same article (and quoted above):
She said: “Our policy is clear – we are committed to ensuring there is no hard border between Northern Ireland and Ireland and to ensuring the same unfettered access for Northern Ireland’s businesses to the whole of the UK’s internal market. We have set out our preferred customs models to enable trade to remain as frictionless as possible.”

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 08 May 18 - 06:20 AM

Saying "by the Irish" would have been misleading, because Ireland was not involved as far as I can tell.

However, I read your response as b3ing about the proposal. I hadn't appreciate your objection was to lack of clarity in how I expressed myself.

So what of the idea?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 08 May 18 - 03:27 AM

The highlighted section makes clear that your comment This is interesting: it looks like the 'border in the sea' is being seriously considered, would be clearer if it said "This is interesting: it looks like the 'border in the sea' is being seriously considered,by the Irish. "

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 06 May 18 - 10:22 AM

You love analysing words carefully, Nigel. Let us know how the your highlighted words make the approach impossible if that green-channel analogue were in place. Bear in mind we are using slippy politician speak, not standard English.

I have serious doubts this approach will work, but it seems to have more potential than anything else being discussed.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 06 May 18 - 10:04 AM

Hidden away in the middle of the article from The Guardian:
A government spokesperson declined to comment on the paper on the grounds that it had not been published, and stipulated that as the document derived from the Northern Ireland executive it was “not a UK government policy document”.

She said: “Our policy is clear – we are committed to ensuring there is no hard border between Northern Ireland and Ireland and to ensuring the same unfettered access for Northern Ireland’s businesses to the whole of the UK’s internal market. We have set out our preferred customs models to enable trade to remain as frictionless as possible.”

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 05 May 18 - 08:30 AM

So the Toriue lowlife now wnat to apply border restrictions to travel from one pqrt of the UK to another????? F*** that, that borders on Naziism. I have a better idea, compulsory ID registration so that constituencies who still want to leave with a closed border can have a razor wire fences to keep them in their own consituencies.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 05 May 18 - 12:52 AM

Brexit plan drawn up for border checks between NI and rest of UK

This is interesting: it looks like the 'border in the sea' is being seriously considered, even though the DUP will be furious. I concur: I have long thought it the only viable option if the UK mainland stays out of a customs union.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 04 May 18 - 07:36 AM

It is because introducing a new border with with a regulation has an impact on the cost effectiveness of goods moving across every other border you have, and of producing the product internally. In this case the "cost" includes the consequences of time delays as well as the more straightforward money.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 04 May 18 - 06:23 AM

I couldn't see how your comment about EU having alternatives for handling the shortfall could be about the phytosanitory rules.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 04 May 18 - 05:54 AM

You have switched back to tariffs, Nigel. We are talking about delays caused by phytosanitory rules.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 May 18 - 05:52 AM

There could well be benefits in trading with the rest of the world without tariffs. Of that there is no doubt. But what of the downside to that? If we have to ship our goods from the USA, China or New Zealand who pays the associated transport costs? What of the effect of all this extra traffic on global ecology? And less rigorous quality control? Protectionism is meant to protect things other than economies.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 04 May 18 - 05:38 AM

And we, likewise, will have alternatives not available to the EU. Trading with the rest of the world without the protectionist tariffs imposed by the EU.
Please note, I have specified an alternative, rather than rely on the rather nebulous the EU has alternatives for handling the shortfall that are not available to us

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 04 May 18 - 05:37 AM

Apologies, Nigel. I think I misread your point.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 04 May 18 - 05:32 AM

It is not just a matter of arithmetic, Nigel. Having a barrier of some kind changes the internal cost of production, so things that were not viable for EU farmers to produce may become so. In summary the EU has alternatives for handling the shortfall that are not available to us.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 04 May 18 - 05:25 AM

As that article rightly says:
Keefe said the phytosanitary checks legally required on both sides of the border were a bigger challenge than the high-profile issue of customs checks that is currently dividing the cabinet.

“If we are all happy eating frozen meat then it’s an easy win, but if we want fresh food and having it on our shelves 365 days a year then it’s a big problem,” he said. “We export about £8bn of fresh produce a year and import £12-13bn. That amount of fresh produce going backwards and forwards is far more of a risk for the government than is anything of customs or duty.”

As pointed out before, this will be more of a problem to the EU sellers than to UK sellers, so it is in the EU's interest to come to an arrangement over this.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 03 May 18 - 03:00 PM

Here You are.

For at least a year commentators have been saying the business with tariffs is the easy part of the problem. This is an example of why they say that.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 03 May 18 - 02:48 PM

Yet another unintended consequence of Brexit has been reported today. It is suggested that imports of fresh food and flowers from Europe will have to be subjected to phytosanitary checks prior to being allowed in the UK. This could delay food at points of entry by up to 48 hours.

Could some knid person kindly link to the article in todays Guardian.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 03 May 18 - 02:33 PM

I noted the pound has "plummeted" against the Euro. It has dropped by at least FIVE times the amount that it "soared" a few days ago.

I suppose we should all be very, very concerned about this.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: peteglasgow
Date: 03 May 18 - 11:57 AM

about 2000 posts back i asked for any indicators that the government was pursuing a successful policy (for anyone except the rich) on anything. something more substantial than 'jeremy corbyn is a terrorist' or whatever.....still heard nothing. yes,i know i should have left this thread to drop off the bottom end.....

come on, tory boys what are you most proud of?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 30 Apr 18 - 12:31 PM

From BBC Live reporting:

17:00
Breaking Government defeated on parliamentary approval of Brexit deal

EU Withdrawal Bill

House of Lords

Parliament

Peers vote 335 to 244 for Viscount Hailsham's amendment.

The amendment attaches extra conditions to parliamentary approval for the deal reached between the EU and the UK, including allowing Parliament to determine the government’s course of action if:
• the final deal is rejected by House of Commons
• the Act that is required to pass before exit is not passed into law
• the deal with the EU is not finalised by 28th Feb 2019

====

I have some commentators who say the rumours are the government will accept this without challenge because they do not think they have the numbers to overturn it. However, that is speculation at this point.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 29 Apr 18 - 03:37 PM

It is certainly good those dire predictions against Brexit were wrong. Clearing the deficit is also good (though at least one economists think it is more an effect of the reduced growth)

But neither of those are Brexit doing well. There's a hill to climb, and while not going downhill is fine, it is not really progress.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 29 Apr 18 - 03:34 PM

SO, if there is no customs union, and no trade deal that is free form tarriffs - ie a trade deal identical to the customs union, who is going to pay the tariffs for any components imported from or exported to EU as part of supply chains. How are we going to stop businssses in EU that use component manufactured in UK. What legislastion will the government put in place to make it illegal to pass increased costs onto consumers.

If firms are going to turn to wider globaloisation, then how are we going to prevent people being employed on exploitative wages?

Will the government have the guts to ban imports from countries that exploit their workers, even if it means damaging the Uk economy - a price worth paying.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Apr 18 - 12:13 PM

I take it you will not be providing a link between the deficit reduction and brexit then.

FT,
"UK deficit returns to pre-crisis levels after decade of austerity"

"In a statement on Tuesday, the chancellor said: “Thanks to the hard work of the British people, borrowing is the lowest in over a decade. Our economy is at a turning point with debt starting to fall and people’s wages rising, as we build an economy that truly works for everyone.” "
https://www.ft.com/content/16cb28c0-479f-11e8-8ae9-4b5ddcca99b3


Remainers said debt and unemployment would soar if we voted leave.
It is good news that they were wrong in their Brexit predictions.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 29 Apr 18 - 08:00 AM

"Yes, but the Labour Party have a history of "promising a referendum""

That was in respect to the adoption of the proposed EU constitution which would have required ratification by ALL the EU states. As this had been already rejected by the (I think) Danish referendum, the expense of holding a referendum in the UK which, if it had been passed, would have made no difference would have just been a waste of money and acheive nothing except gratifying the UKIP lowlife.

Of course, anyone who still wanted to go ahead with what was by then a pointless referendum, they could have easily paid for it out of their own pockets. The government did exactly the right thing by not WASTING my taxes.

Labour never promised any other refwredum.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Apr 18 - 06:08 AM

Sorry to hear it is your last Cognac breakfast, Stanron. Nothing serious I hope?

I take it you will not be providing a link between the deficit reduction and brexit then.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 29 Apr 18 - 05:33 AM

"do not think..." point illustrated, I feel.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 29 Apr 18 - 05:32 AM

Interesting use of the word 'we"

Firstly, you will probably know the quality of typing in my posts varies between very poor and appalling. This is in part because I so not think I am writing sacred tomes to be revered over the years so it is almost all more flow of consciousness than peer reviewed theses. So putting too much weight on an individual word is almost certainly more than it can bear.

But the word 'we' perfectly appropriate in that post, denoting all those who are interested in this topic, whatever their point of view. Those who support Brexit would be equally interested in hearing your argument about the link between the deficit and Brexit.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Stanron
Date: 29 Apr 18 - 04:38 AM

Good morning campers. Some of you are up very early today. I am taking advantage of what may be my last ever opportunity to enjoy a cognac breakfast. Consequently, postings of significance will be delayed until the hangover kicks in. Please feel free to speculate, obfuscate and denigrate to your collective hearts content. (Interesting use of the word 'we' in the DMcG posting Date: 28 Apr 18 - 05:05 PM by the way)