BS: Post Brexit life in the UK

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 18 Oct 17 - 04:13 AM

I've said this before and I'll say it again.

If you can read this Thank a teacher.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 18 Oct 17 - 04:21 AM

If you can read this Thank a teacher.

Although that teacher may often be a parent, not a member of the teaching profession.
And a good teacher would have taught about when to use capital letters, and when not to use them.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 18 Oct 17 - 04:21 AM

The naivety of Shaw's responses are astounding, just toe the party line and question nought. I see we now have the dodgy input of the great philanderer Clinton and his loser wife trying to further muddy the waters of brexit. Do we get a lecture tour by LURCH Maccain to add to our joys?

""You are a pathetic, bigoted and extremely confused man." The usual tactic of Shaw when he has no counter argument, just trot out a few meaningless insults. How original!
Roofing exercises the muscles and the brain and the slightest error is on public display. What does teaching exercise? I hear bullying is a huge problem in the profession. HMMMMMMMMMMM!!!! Makes a person think about the nature of a certain person's posts does it not?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 18 Oct 17 - 04:31 AM

You're quite right Nigel, my Mother taught me to read.



Mind you she was a teacher.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Oct 17 - 04:46 AM

Rag,
No it doesn't say that at all does it professor, you're making things up ....... again.
The article says that "some conservative MP's have said that prices would fall............."

Read on Rag. THE REPORT SAYS that prices would get less.
"Some Conservative MPs have said that prices will fall rather than rise as a result of Brexit, because it will be possible for the government to unilaterally reduce all tariffs to zero so consumers can get goods at the cheapest price on the world market.

The report found that under these circumstances, the average household budget would be reduced by ?130 a year"

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Oct 17 - 04:54 AM

Steve, that negotiations are stalling is no surprise to us.
They can not afford to let us go and will string us along for as long as they can in the hope that we will change our mind.
The utterances of Labour and some Tories encourages them to hope that will happen.

EU food is the most expensive in the world. There is no other market for the food they currently sell us.
EU farmers are very politically active. Especially French farmers.
They will not be happy if priced out of our market by tariffs.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Oct 17 - 05:01 AM

Anyone here who reads the meanderings of akenaton and doesn?t think that he?s an extremely confused and bigoted man is, well, either extremely confused themselves or, well, just a little in denial.

Ok, Teribus and Iains. As you are so keen to comment on my teaching career, be kind enough to answer a question or two:

When did you last meet me?

Name the schools in which I taught.

Describe my university and teacher training qualifications.

What were my particular subject areas in each one?

Describe my career path in each school, focusing on tbe positions of responsibility I achieved.

Tell us how many of my lessons you observed.

Give us any evidence, either verbal or written, that you?ve seen from any of my fellow teachers or superiors as to the standard of my classroom performance. Don?t forget to tell us their names so that I can verify your information for you.

If you can?t address these questions (and we all know that you can?t), then I suggest that you desist from making remarks about my teaching. You have as much qualification to do that as I have to comment about the likely deficiencies of your sex lives or any other aspect of your existence that you haven?t told us about. And Iains, it?s bad enough that you indulge in such behaviour, but doubly pathetic that you?re just brainlessly copying the brainless Teribus in so doing. Now back to brexit, chaps!

Ps. Since I updated my iPad the keyboard rigorously replaces any apostrophe I insert with a question mark. I?ve just been through the post correcting them, but as soon as I hit preview they?re back again.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 18 Oct 17 - 05:19 AM

And you believe the Government would " unilaterally reduce all tariffs to zero so consumers can get goods at the cheapest price on the world market"

Dream on sunshine.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 18 Oct 17 - 05:34 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENiMyzyex8w

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 18 Oct 17 - 05:36 AM

Incidentally, if I were a supplier to the UK post Brexit I would put my price up safe in the knowledge that the UK could not buy from the EU (without paying a premium).

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 18 Oct 17 - 05:38 AM

I'll give them one thing Iains, unlike the Government they were all singing from the same song sheet.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 18 Oct 17 - 05:39 AM

From: Raggytash - PM
Date: 18 Oct 17 - 05:19 AM
And you believe the Government would " unilaterally reduce all tariffs to zero so consumers can get goods at the cheapest price on the world market"
Dream on sunshine.

It's no less likely than the possibility of us retaining the 'protectionist' tariffs which we current charge because of the EU, in order to protect the wine producers in France Germany, Italy & Spain.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Oct 17 - 05:42 AM

?They? are not stringing us along, Keith. Cameron promised to trigger Article 50 the morning after the referendum. It took us nine nonths. Then May called an extremely ill-advised election which threw her party into total disarray, causing further delay. The Tories are split down the middle, squabbling among themselves, as we saw yesterday. What are the EU negotiators supposed to do about negotiating partners in that state? Quite rightly, they want to know what the financial settlement will be before they start talking turkey. You can?t get the decorators in before you?ve shown that you?ve actually bought the house. The financial, residential and border issues must be resolved before you start talking trade. That?s the right order of doing things. The confusion and disarray on OUR side is what?s holding things up. By the way, if we have legal obligations to pay the EU on leaving, we won?t get out of them just by walking away. They will get their money anyway and we?ll spend years in a costly, energy-sapping and hostile legal morass until they do. There is no stringing along going on. You should be looking at the feckless Tory Party and feeling extremely worried about the shambles they are getting us ever deeper into. I know I am and I know that it?s pointless looking for someone else to blame, as you constantly do. There?s a lot of hubris over the exit bill and a lot of fear of the Tory right going on. As I said before, that 60 billion is going to look like a drop in the ocean next to the damage that a no-deal brexit is going to do us. By the way, any trade ramifications after brexit will be disseminated among 27 other countries their end whereas we will bear the whole brunt our end. It?s nonsensical to claim that they need us more than we need them.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 18 Oct 17 - 05:45 AM

Raggytash. I hate to have to admit it but your response did raise a quick snigger.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 18 Oct 17 - 05:55 AM

Glad to have given a bit of amusement Iains.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 18 Oct 17 - 06:00 AM

You can't get the decorators in before you've shown you own the house.
I've just had a kitchen extension and new kitchen & decoration. No-one asked for proof of ownership of the property.

The financial, residential and border issues must be resolved before you start talking trade. That's the right order of doing things.
I certainly didn't (and wouldn't) agree with (and promise to pay) their estimate of the cost without first being clear about exactly what I would be paying for.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Oct 17 - 06:09 AM

Presumably all your stuff was in the rest of the house, you?d been known in the area for years, all your other ducks were in a row and there was mutual trust founded on a little more than just fresh air. And no-one has said that we must pay their estimate of the cost. What they ARE saying in effect is that we must drop the little-Englander Tory hubris and negotiate sensibly about what we need to pay on exit.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 18 Oct 17 - 06:34 AM

What they ARE saying in effect is that we must drop the little-Englander Tory hubris and negotiate sensibly about what we need to pay on exit.
But the UK has shown it is prepared to negotiate sensibly.
"Sensible" doesn't mean rolling over and agreeing to pay a bill for which no justification has been provided. The EU appear to have plucked a figure 'out of thin air' which they believe is enough to give them an upper hand in negotiations, and compensate them for losing one of the biggest contributors to their little club.
If the figure hasn't been 'plucked from thin air' then surely they should be able to show how they arrived at the figure.
Not a lot to ask, is it?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Mr Red
Date: 18 Oct 17 - 07:07 AM

to keep two specific European countries from each others throats - France and Germany

I think the intention of the EEC was bigger and more complex than that. Like all the spouting on Brexit, talking about single aspects is fine, but claims that one aspect of the moment is so important that it can, to all intents and purposes, be considered as the only aspect is .................

well let us just say "take yer blinkers off".

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 18 Oct 17 - 07:12 AM

It goes without saying of course, that before Britain stumps up another penny, we have fully audited EU accounts to peruse. After all a sovereign nation would not want to be seen encouraging any criminality.
I suspect such a demand would cause absolute chaos within the corrupt EU.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 18 Oct 17 - 07:12 AM

No deal is better than a bad deal.

Now no-one probably thought they would ever read those words from myself. However there is a rider and that is it would be better for the EU.

Todays Guardian article.

No Deal better than a bad deal

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 18 Oct 17 - 07:14 AM

No Deal better than a bad deal

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 18 Oct 17 - 07:30 AM

"What they ARE saying in effect is that we must drop the little-Englander Tory hubris and negotiate sensibly about what we need to pay on exit."
In the real world you pay a fee for membership to join a club. Not paying the fee means loss of membership. Same with the EU.
For Shaw. This is the same as the AA. Pay a fee annually for cover - don't pay and on yer bike matey!
The EU has a novel concept that will gain few acolytes. You pay a fee to leave a dysfunctional club.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Oct 17 - 07:39 AM

And you believe the Government would " unilaterally reduce all tariffs to zero so consumers can get goods at the cheapest price on the world market"

Yes. The government is actively seeking tariff free trade outside EU.
Why would they impose tariffs on food imports to replace the tariff free food we currently buy?
Dream on Rag.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 18 Oct 17 - 07:51 AM

If you recall:

"Some Conservative MPs have said that prices will fall rather than rise as a result of Brexit, because it will be possible for the government to unilaterally reduce all tariffs to zero so consumers can get goods at the cheapest price on the world market."

It may have escaped your notice but other governments can apply tariffs too. Therefore it is not feasible for the UK government to unilaterally reduce all tariffs to zero.

However that is one small part of an article that indicates the cost of living WILL increase, and that puts an even bigger burden on those less able to afford it.

Yet another example of the "caring" conservatives "building a country that works for everyone"

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 18 Oct 17 - 07:53 AM

From: Steve Shaw - PM
Date: 18 Oct 17 - 05:42 AM
?They? are not stringing us along, Keith. Cameron promised to trigger Article 50 the morning after the referendum. It took us nine nonths.

You may not recall, but it was the remainers who successfully delayed the triggering of Article 50 by taking the matter through the courts (once David Cameron had gone). Mrs may would probably have triggered it much sooner otherwise.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 18 Oct 17 - 08:00 AM


You may not recall, but it was the remainers who successfully delayed the triggering of Article 50 by taking the matter through the courts (once David Cameron had gone). Mrs may would probably have triggered it much sooner otherwise.

Not so: the case before the court was whether it requires Parliament or could just be done by the government. She could have triggered it as early as she liked by bringing it to Parliament.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Oct 17 - 08:05 AM

Rag,
It may have escaped your notice but other governments can apply tariffs too.

It may have escaped your notice that NO government applies tariffs to its exports! Why would our government impose tariffs on food imports to replace the tariff free food we currently buy?

Your latest Guardian article is by Jens Geier who is a German SPD member of the European parliament and vice chair of the European parliament?s budget committee.
He talks bollocks.
He says they wont miss us buying BMWs because they are "big sellers worldwide."
They will because they already sell all they can to the rest of the world. If we switch to Japanese and Far East manufacturers they will lose those sales.
They certainly can not sell elsewhere the food we currently buy because it is the most costly in the world despite subsidising EU farmers.

No deal means EU goods become more expensive to us, but we do not have to buy them.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 18 Oct 17 - 08:30 AM

Read the first line of the attachment.

Tariffs

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Teribus
Date: 18 Oct 17 - 09:06 AM

Steve Shaw - 18 Oct 17 - 05:01 AM

Thanks for all of that, only trouble is Shaw, none of that alters the fact that you got paid for attendance - Akenaton "the roofer and tiler", the person you rather disparagingly advised to "go roof a house", got paid for performance - every single day of his working life.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 18 Oct 17 - 09:13 AM

From: DMcG - PM
Date: 18 Oct 17 - 08:00 AM
You may not recall, but it was the remainers who successfully delayed the triggering of Article 50 by taking the matter through the courts (once David Cameron had gone). Mrs may would probably have triggered it much sooner otherwise.
Not so: the case before the court was whether it requires Parliament or could just be done by the government. She could have triggered it as early as she liked by bringing it to Parliament.

But clearly she would not have a free hand to trigger Brexit. It would have to be put to parliament. That takes time, so some delay is required.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 18 Oct 17 - 09:15 AM

"Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK From: Teribus - PM
Date: 18 Oct 17 - 09:06 AM"

"Thanks for all of that, only trouble is Shaw, none of that alters the fact that you got paid for attendance"

So if Steve had gone to the school, sat in a classroom and not taught the children he would still have:

1. Been paid?
2. Kept his job?

We know your opinion of education is something along the lines of "I graduated from the university of life, me" but once again you demonstrate your complete and utter lack of understanding of anything to do with the educational system.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Oct 17 - 09:28 AM

Yes, don?t be so ridiculous, Bill, as you?ll only encourage your pallid copycat poodle, who has shown this morning that he understands nothing about the responsibilities that come with EU membership.

Nonsense, Nigel. How can we negotiate sensibly when we have a weak government split down the middle with a pile of horseshit-talk from one side braying about no deal and with no-one able to sensibly negotiate (and don?t mention the Davis clown, purrrlease...)? No-one, including the EU, wants us to roll over. Maybe you are one of those people, like all of UKIP and half the Tories, who just think we should tell the silly foreign sods that they are not getting a penny...

And now the great brexit bill is knackered for yet a few more weeks until someone somewhere in an office who actually understands how to draft things can make sense of it. And Keith sez it is them stringing us along...

Whether you?re a brexiteer or not, you should be very worried about the shower we have running the country (allegedly running, more accurately) who can?t agree among themselves and who are proving themselves to be disastrous at negotiating. What a shambles.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: MikeL2
Date: 18 Oct 17 - 09:32 AM

Hi

AS every one here is talking about how we should negotiate etc etc

We have just returned from spending a week at a hotel in Llandudno.

On the evening before our leaving we were given a detailed bill of what we spent so that we cloud examine and check it for validity. We checked the bill and we agreed with what they say we spent.

Shouldn't this be how the the Brexit negotiations should work. ??

Cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Oct 17 - 09:37 AM

The Tories are more scared about being seen by the Daily Mail to be giving in than they are concerned about addressing our responsibilities, Mike.

Nil-seven, eh!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 18 Oct 17 - 09:42 AM

From: Steve Shaw - PM
Date: 18 Oct 17 - 09:28 AM Nonsense, Nigel. How can we negotiate sensibly when we have a weak government split down the middle with a pile of horseshit-talk from one side braying about no deal and with no-one able to sensibly negotiate (and don?t mention the Davis clown, purrrlease...)? No-one, including the EU, wants us to roll over. Maybe you are one of those people, like all of UKIP and half the Tories, who just think we should tell the silly foreign sods that they are not getting a penny...

Yes, (ignoring all the crass invective you've included in that sentence) I do believe we shouldn't pay a penny, . . . unless the EU can justify why they believe it is payable, and we can agree their reasons.

Perhaps you would like to suggest the amount that should be paid, the ?20bn we've already offered, the Euro100bn that the EU are asking for, or some other figure?
Whatever figure you arrive at, how is it either derived, or justified?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Oct 17 - 09:46 AM

This is a totally irrelevant post to see if my old iPad does those damned question marks too. So here goes:

"I can't, shouldn't and won't love you!" She exclaimed. "It's not right!"

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Oct 17 - 09:48 AM

Aha. So it's either my iPad mini, my iPad mini not agreeing with Mudcat or something to do with the latest IOS update (which I haven't done yet on this old iPad). Weird. Yes Nigel? You were saying?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 18 Oct 17 - 09:55 AM

From: Steve Shaw - PM
Date: 18 Oct 17 - 09:48 AM
Weird. Yes Nigel? You were saying?

What I was saying is only two comments down the thread. I'm sure you can access that.
I note that my symbol for UK pounds has also been changed to a question mark.
I will try to avoid repeating that error as I know just how annoying it can be.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Oct 17 - 11:57 AM

Rag, that may be the definition but no government applies tariffs to its own exports. Only imports.
Steve, both Labour and Tories are split on this.
However good our negotiators, EU have to string us along. They can not afford to lose either our contribution or our market. Their only hope is that we change our mind and stay, so they will never make us a fair offer to leave.

Free trade would be beneficial and might be worth paying for, but how can we agree a price until we know what the trade deal is?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 18 Oct 17 - 12:10 PM

I think that the description (link above) on Wikipedia may be being miss-read:
A tariff is a tax on imports or exports between sovereign states.
In most (if not all) cases, it will be a charge imposed for allowing goods into the country which applies the tariff.
But, of course, an import into one country can also be considered as an export from another county, hence the confusion.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Oct 17 - 12:26 PM

I'm far too kind to dwell on that egregious example of semi-literate writing in your post, Nigel.

Keith, it isn't Labour who are supposed to be doing the negotiating. It isn't Labour leading us up shit creek without a paddle.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Oct 17 - 01:36 PM

Will you tell us what UK negotiators have done wrong Steve?
The UK negotiators are not at fault.
Those politicians who undermine their position are.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Oct 17 - 02:19 PM

Will you tell us what UK negotiators have done wrong

They have not done anything wrong by virtue of the fact that they have done nothing full stop. Who are these politicians that undermine their positions anyway? It cannot be Labour ones as they are not in power. We can only conclude that you must mean Tory ones. Proving that the whole party is in disarray, a shambles and unfit to lead a chimps tea party let alone serious negotiations and a country.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Oct 17 - 02:20 PM

Nope. The buck stops with the government. If anything ever went wrong in past administrations you blame Blair/Brown/Callaghan/Wilson, and I blame Thatcher/Major Cameron/May. Exactly how it should be. Well, you may also blame, incorrectly, the unions too, but that's your problem. The MPs who are not giving a ramshackle and visionless Tory government carte blanche are doing the job we elected them to do, to scrutinise every move the government tries to make and hold it to account. We call it "democracy," Keith. One job they've done well so far is to prevent them from pushing through measures on the quiet that require parliamentary scrutiny. Remember all that taking back control stuff? Well it wasn't supposed to be about giving private control over thousands of pieces of legislation to a bunch of squabbling, split-down-the-middle ne'er-do-wells, was it?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: MikeL2
Date: 18 Oct 17 - 02:27 PM

Hi Steve

It seems to me that both sides ( UK & EU ) don't have Accountants that know what they are doing by not keeping transaction records - they should be available on each side.

<" Nil-seven, eh!!! ">

Yes I watched some of it. They really didn't have much opposition on the night. Certainly not anything that could catch Liverpool in this mood. Phew !! First they smothered the opposition in mid-field and then converted that into a most powerful attack. .....and it could have been more.

I am just preparing to watch Man United v Benfica. Don't think this will be 7-0.

Regards Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Oct 17 - 02:39 PM

The great thing was that the goal difference gulf between Liverpool and Sevilla widened by eleven goals on the night. Could come in handy!

It wouldn't surprise me if the transaction records are all over the shop. My bank account's a bit like that...

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 18 Oct 17 - 03:30 PM

Professsor, do you actually know anything about Economics, for example could you tell everyone about the Multiplier factor.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 18 Oct 17 - 03:32 PM

Come to think of it, do you know the difference between Macro and Micro Economics.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Oct 17 - 05:09 PM

You might as well ask him if he knows the difference between a Big Mac and Big Mick.