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BS: Post Brexit life in the UK

Nigel Parsons 17 Jun 18 - 07:53 PM
Backwoodsman 17 Jun 18 - 04:56 PM
peteaberdeen 17 Jun 18 - 04:51 PM
Iains 17 Jun 18 - 04:39 PM
Backwoodsman 17 Jun 18 - 03:44 PM
DMcG 17 Jun 18 - 03:18 PM
Nigel Parsons 17 Jun 18 - 02:41 PM
Jim Carroll 17 Jun 18 - 02:35 PM
DMcG 17 Jun 18 - 02:14 PM
Nigel Parsons 17 Jun 18 - 01:47 PM
Nigel Parsons 17 Jun 18 - 01:26 PM
DMcG 17 Jun 18 - 01:12 PM
Jim Carroll 17 Jun 18 - 12:56 PM
Nigel Parsons 17 Jun 18 - 12:31 PM
Jim Carroll 17 Jun 18 - 08:25 AM
Iains 17 Jun 18 - 07:52 AM
Backwoodsman 17 Jun 18 - 06:31 AM
DMcG 17 Jun 18 - 06:27 AM
Backwoodsman 17 Jun 18 - 06:23 AM
Iains 17 Jun 18 - 06:07 AM
Steve Shaw 17 Jun 18 - 05:58 AM
Jim Carroll 17 Jun 18 - 05:52 AM
Backwoodsman 17 Jun 18 - 03:10 AM
DMcG 17 Jun 18 - 03:02 AM
Nigel Parsons 15 Jun 18 - 11:00 AM
Raggytash 15 Jun 18 - 10:48 AM
Jim Carroll 15 Jun 18 - 06:42 AM
Iains 15 Jun 18 - 05:12 AM
Keith A of Hertford 15 Jun 18 - 04:32 AM
DMcG 15 Jun 18 - 04:27 AM
Jim Carroll 15 Jun 18 - 04:13 AM
Iains 15 Jun 18 - 03:55 AM
Keith A of Hertford 15 Jun 18 - 03:49 AM
DMcG 14 Jun 18 - 04:06 PM
Raggytash 14 Jun 18 - 02:20 PM
DMcG 07 Jun 18 - 02:10 PM
Iains 07 Jun 18 - 01:23 PM
Raggytash 07 Jun 18 - 01:14 PM
DMcG 05 Jun 18 - 04:57 AM
Nigel Parsons 05 Jun 18 - 04:44 AM
peteaberdeen 05 Jun 18 - 04:10 AM
DMcG 04 Jun 18 - 01:34 PM
DMcG 04 Jun 18 - 03:24 AM
DMcG 04 Jun 18 - 02:19 AM
Nigel Parsons 03 Jun 18 - 07:27 PM
DMcG 03 Jun 18 - 01:53 PM
Keith A of Hertford 03 Jun 18 - 08:42 AM
DMcG 03 Jun 18 - 08:19 AM
peteaberdeen 03 Jun 18 - 07:41 AM
Keith A of Hertford 03 Jun 18 - 07:15 AM

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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 17 Jun 18 - 07:53 PM

From: Backwoodsman - PM
Date: 17 Jun 18 - 04:56 PM
Teribus, I fully understand the difference between 'those who voted' and 'the population'. However, my assertation is perfectly, absolutely correct - a greater number of not only the U.K. population, but also the U.K. electorate, did not express a wish to leave the EU in the Referendum than those who did.
You really must stop disputing what I did not say, it's absolutely pointless.


Once again this misleading comment that:
a greater number of not only the U.K. population, but also the U.K. electorate, did not express a wish to leave the EU in the Referendum than those who did.

An even greater number of the UK population, and of the UK electorate, did not vote to remain.
Whether you look at the percentage of those who voted 'Leave' as a percentage of those who voted, or a percentage (of the population) who voted 'Leave' compared to the percentage (of the population) who voted 'remain'. the outcome will still be roughly 52 to 48.
Anyone who assumes that all those who didn't vote would have voted to remain is playing with figures which they have no chance of justifying.

There was a single referendum, and it was won by those who voted for 'Brexit'. Let's just get on with it.
Those who chose not to vote, for whatever reason, had the option to vote, but ignored their franchise. They ignore their franchise to vote, we can ignore their wishes (which we will never know) about what the outcome of the vote could have been.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Jun 18 - 04:56 PM

Teribus, I fully understand the difference between 'those who voted' and 'the population'. However, my assertation is perfectly, absolutely correct - a greater number of not only the U.K. population, but also the U.K. electorate, did not express a wish to leave the EU in the Referendum than those who did.

You really must stop disputing what I did not say, it's absolutely pointless.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: peteaberdeen
Date: 17 Jun 18 - 04:51 PM

when did 'leftard' become a word? what exactly does it mean?


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 17 Jun 18 - 04:39 PM

"If it wasn't such a tragedy for the large majority of the population who didn't vote Leave, it would be absolutely hilarious."

I think we have demonstrated the stupidity of this argument frequently already. The remainiacs that don't get it are becoming exceedingly boring.Those enfranchised, that could be bothered to vote, voted in the majority to leave. Not a particularly difficult concept to grasp I would have thought? But a minority of loopy leftards refuse to accept democracy, rather like many democrats over the pond.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Jun 18 - 03:44 PM

"As negotiation is still ongoing I cannot say with any degree of certainty what the possibility is of damage to the UK economy following Brexit. Nor can I put a value on the damage (if any).
Also I cannot put a hard cash value on the future benefits that I believe we will see once we are able to trade with the rest of the world on terms which we negotiate, rather than terms negotiated by the EU with a view to protecting their internal suppliers.
I can, however, state that it is my belief (shared by others) that the UK will be quite capable of dealing with world markets once we have escaped from the EU. We will also be responsible for our own laws.

Persons who are supposed to have a much greater knowledge of economics than I have have given their predictions. Those included predictions for the immediate post-brexit-vote period of massive increased unemployment, a £60bn hole in the UK's budget, and an immediate punitive budget to get us out of trouble.
Are you surprised that, having decided to ignore 'Project Fear' the first time, I am happy to see Brexit going ahead, and see nothing to fear from our current negotiations."


And there it is, gentlemen, The Confession of a Wankpuffin - one of 17 million Wankpuffins - who voted for nothing, just a daft idea with absolutely no pre-determined plan, no hard facts, nothing concrete to offer, just a string of cliches and sound-bites, no clue of what the effects of the final outcome would be, and led by their noses by a bunch of charlatans who were doing the bidding of a tiny immensely-wealthy minority who wish to avoid the EU Tax-Avoidance Regulations coming into effect in May 2019, who bamboozled them with racist, xenophobic, nationalist drivel about 'Take Back Control' and 'control immigration', and who shat their boxers and ran for the hills when the awful truth that they'd actually won became clear the morning after the Referendum.

If it wasn't such a tragedy for the large majority of the population who didn't vote Leave, it would be absolutely hilarious.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 17 Jun 18 - 03:18 PM

as negotiation is still ongoing I cannot say with any degree of certainty what the possibility is of damage to the UK economy following Brexit.


Naturally, as the future is always unknown . And the past is often disputed. And the present is always confused and uncertain. We live in a world where requiring a degree of certainty is over ambitious most of the time.

So we have to live with judgements and balances of probability. We can do a little better by adding some assumptions. If the EU concedes on the NI border then estimate1; if the UK concedes a border in the sea then estimate2. And so on.

As long as we accept these are estimates, not accurate glimpses of the future, there is a lot that can be done.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 17 Jun 18 - 02:41 PM

As negotiation is still ongoing I cannot say with any degree of certainty what the possibility is of damage to the UK economy following Brexit. Nor can I put a value on the damage (if any).
Also I cannot put a hard cash value on the future benefits that I believe we will see once we are able to trade with the rest of the world on terms which we negotiate, rather than terms negotiated by the EU with a view to protecting their internal suppliers.
I can, however, state that it is my belief (shared by others) that the UK will be quite capable of dealing with world markets once we have escaped from the EU. We will also be responsible for our own laws.

Persons who are supposed to have a much greater knowledge of economics than I have have given their predictions. Those included predictions for the immediate post-brexit-vote period of massive increased unemployment, a £60bn hole in the UK's budget, and an immediate punitive budget to get us out of trouble.
Are you surprised that, having decided to ignore 'Project Fear' the first time, I am happy to see Brexit going ahead, and see nothing to fear from our current negotiations.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Jun 18 - 02:35 PM

"Just as Brexit means Brexit."
That seems to mean different things to different advocates Nigel
Perhaps when they get their act together they'll impart the true meaning to the rest of us
Meanwhile, we'll just have to sit back and enjoy the circus (and hope the tent doesn't catch fire)
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 17 Jun 18 - 02:14 PM

I see. So you suggest you cannot make a judgement on whether damage in the first say six months after the leaving date is almost vanishing unlikely or almost certain.

Many people had a problem with ake, but I thought his position has some honesty. As I understand it was that leaving would cause all sorts of problems - perhaps financial, perhaps mass unemployment and so on - but, like surgery, it was a necessary pain to go through to be better off in the long run. That, to me was always a more sensible position than refusing to accept any downside, or refusing to face up it. Rather it said "There is a price to pay - this is the price - I will pay it."


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 17 Jun 18 - 01:47 PM

So you are sticking to "may' for the first part? Most of remainers think 'will' would fit better. But no matter, we can still ask if 'may' means

- highly unlikely to
- unlikely to
- as likely as not
- more likely than not
- very likely to.


May means may (modal verb expressing possibility). Just as Brexit means Brexit. If I had intended another meaning to it I could have used on of the phrases you offer.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 17 Jun 18 - 01:26 PM

I've just watched the Aquarius refugee ship dock in Spain being turned awy by right wing governments and being accepted by Spain's Socialists

"The Maltese government is described as a social-democratic party."

Described maybe - it's policy towards immigrants belies that
It sure ain't socialist - closer to May than it is to Corbyn - New Labour maybe


So they're refusing to accept the refugees because of their political affiliations, and you can tell what their political affiliations are by watching how they deal with the refugees.
That seems a rather circular form of logic.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 17 Jun 18 - 01:12 PM

So you are sticking to "may' for the first part? Most of remainers think 'will' would fit better. But no matter, we can still ask if 'may' means

- highly unlikely to
- unlikely to
- as likely as not
- more likely than not
- very likely to.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Jun 18 - 12:56 PM

"The Maltese government is described as a social-democratic party."
Described maybe - it's policy towards immigrants belies that
It sure ain't socialist - closer to May than it is to Corbyn - New Labour maybe


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 17 Jun 18 - 12:31 PM

"to ensure we come out the other side with as little damage as possible"
That seems to be an acceptance that there will be damage" Nigel
Was't that a long time coming - though welcome, now it's arrived
Jim Carroll


I've never denied that Brexit may cause damage to the UK, or to our economy. I just believe that the benefits to be had will outweigh the costs (damages).

"Good to see the remainiacs having so much fun!"
I've just watched the Aquarius refugee ship dock in Spain being turned awy by right wing governments and being accepted by Spain's Socialists
It's hard not to remember that Brexit is based on keeping such needy people out, especially when you read the childishly snite comments here
Puts all this into perfect context, as far as I'm concerned
Jim Carroll


The Aquarius was refused by Italy and Malta. The Maltese government is described as a social-democratic party.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Jun 18 - 08:25 AM

"Good to see the remainiacs having so much fun!"
I've just watched the Aquarius refugee ship dock in Spain being turned awy by right wing governments and being accepted by Spain's Socialists
It's hard not to remember that Brexit is based on keeping such needy people out, especially when you read the childishly snite comments here
Puts all this into perfect context, as far as I'm concerned
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 17 Jun 18 - 07:52 AM

Good to see the remainiacs having so much fun!


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Jun 18 - 06:31 AM

Bugger, missed 5,200!

Bear in mind that the Tories are busy getting the NHS ready for privatisation. Around 10% is already privatised, more is to come. I wonder whether the £20 billion will go to the non-privatised, or the privatised, part of the NHS?


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 17 Jun 18 - 06:27 AM

That's hardly to do with Brexit, is it? I gather the figures of attendees were around 14,000 which is not large by festival standards but is somewhat more than George Freeman's Festival of Ideas.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Jun 18 - 06:23 AM

Very interesting, Teribus. But WTF does that have to do with 'Post Brexit life in the U.K.'? Sweet Fuck All, of course, it's just your standard obfuscation and Extreme-Right bollocks.

Anything to say about the promise on the side of the bus which you and your easily-bamboozled BrexShitter mates claimed didn't exist, but which That Horrible Woman is now pretending she's fulfilling?


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 17 Jun 18 - 06:07 AM

Plenty of seats at the hotel Corbynista

https://www.thesun.co.uk/video/news/jeremy-corbyns-labour-live-festival-flops-with-empty-venues/


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Jun 18 - 05:58 AM

As Alastair Campbell said this morning, there is no brexit dividend coming. Brexit will cost the economy dearly for many years to come. Any increase for the NHS will be fully funded by tax increases. That's the honest way to do it and that's the only honest way of saying it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Jun 18 - 05:52 AM

"to ensure we come out the other side with as little "
That seems to be an acceptance that there will be damage" Nigel
Was't that a long time coming - though welcome, now it's arrived
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Jun 18 - 03:10 AM

"You may recall how the Leaver's on this thread and elsewhere have been adamant no such promise was ever made. It will be amusing to watch them now claim the promise is being fulfilled..."

Ha! As my old mum used to say of those seeking to justify the unjustifiable, "Them buggers say owt but their prayers!".


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 17 Jun 18 - 03:02 AM

That there is going to be a big rise in NHS funding is greatly to be welcomed. This is one thing Teresa May is reported to have said:

"In her BBC interview, Mrs May said the increase will exceed the £350m-a-week extra promised by Leave campaigners during the EU referendum campaign."

You may recall how the Leaver's on this thread and elsewhere have been adamant no such promise was ever made. It will be amusing to watch them now claim the promise is being fulfilled...

It is financial slight of hand and politics, of course. We may well end up paying for a Galileo substitute purely as consequence of Brexit. And that will have to be paid for. As will many other things we did not anticipate. I would say you need to have covered all of the costs of those first, before claiming the extra NHS funding is due to a Brexit dividend.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 15 Jun 18 - 11:00 AM

Raggy:
You may think that "what the Labour Party do is of little concern", and I would like to agree.

Unfortunately they (and some Conservatives) are still able to make mischief, and make it difficult for the government "to ensure we come out the other side with as little damage as possible".


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 15 Jun 18 - 10:48 AM

At the moment what Labour do is of little concern.

The conservative party got us into this situation, it is THEIR responsibility to ensure we come out the other side with as little damage as possible.

To hell in a handcart comes to mind.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Jun 18 - 06:42 AM

"St Jeremy of Islington."
I PREFER MY SATIRE LIKE THIS
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 15 Jun 18 - 05:12 AM

St Jeremy of Islington.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYcPGsscVmI


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Jun 18 - 04:32 AM

Labour and Tories are both split over this.
All parties have a majority of Remainers in Parliament and always have, but they decided to let the electorate choose.


Now they want to take it back.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 15 Jun 18 - 04:27 AM

The rebellions in Labour are totally as you would expect. As I said on 7 June at 2:10 the Labour approach seemed to me to be pushing an approach they knew could not win, and so it is no surprise that there were lots of rebels.

But that is a different order to apparent deceit in what the words to be written into law would be.


As to the SNP: I said a while back - and was contradicted - that not enough time was allocated to discussing these amendment.
The suggestion that the problems arose because Labour wanted to vote on the amendments is silly: voting in amendments is what Parliament does.

However, I also think it likely the SNP would have found a different reason to proteat if they had had enough time.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Jun 18 - 04:13 AM

Whatever is going on in the Labour Party, it is the Tories who have to steer Britain through the mess this appalling decision has caused and it is they who are making a mess of it - a divided cabinet, the reliance on the Whips to get a Government resolution accepted, the reliance on bunging a billion of British taxpayers money to a sectarian party with terrorist links and an attitude to the rights of women that have never left Jurassic Park...
Labour are, as are all the parties, in the position of having to balance the tightrope between a death-wish decision for Britain and a vote largely carried by appealing to Xenophobia - not an enviable place for any party to be.
But the pathetic day-by-day shambolic performance of those responsible for governance of the country has made Britain the laughing stock of the world
Whataboutism - are you kidding !!!
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 15 Jun 18 - 03:55 AM

A fine example of high dudgeon by elements from both sides!


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Jun 18 - 03:49 AM

Rag,
An article I read today in the Guardian seems to indicate that the Tory party is at odds with itself.

Daily Mirror yesterday,
"Labour MPs have staged a mass revolt against Jeremy Corbyn as 90 defied him to take part in a vote on Soft Brexit.
The Labour leader told his MPs to keep their noses out of a vote on whether Britain should stay in the European Economic Area (EEA).


But 75 Labour MPs rebelled to back the EEA - the so-called 'Norway model'. Another 15 Labour MPs rebelled to vote against it.
Of the 90 rebels, six were Labour frontbenchers who were forced to resign."
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/90-labour-mps-rebelled-over-12701636


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 14 Jun 18 - 04:06 PM

Is this the one?

There seems to be very high risk brinkmanship going on. As far as I can tell May decided to change a vote she was about to lose into one around a week later that she will probably lose but might not. But this comes at a significant cost to her in terms of trust. It will be interesting to hear what Dominic Grieve says on Question Time this evening.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 14 Jun 18 - 02:20 PM

I'm a bit out of touch at the moment due to not having daily access to either the media or the internet but it would seem that Teresa May is not keeping even her own party happy.

An article I read today in the Guardian seems to indicate that the Tory party is at odds with itself.

If someone could link to the article entitled Tory Rebellion back on after MP's reject May's Brexit ammendment I would be grateful.

For those of you who support Brexit are you not concerned that even people who one could expect to support Brexit are having serious concerns.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 07 Jun 18 - 02:10 PM

I am not sure it is worth saying much until after Tuesday's votes. I simply shake my head at the way the government is happy to produce a proposal that stands no chamce of being acceptable, while Labour insists on backing a new amendment in a vote that no-one expects it to win, in support of a proposal that is also very unlikely to be acceptable to the EU because it is too "cake and eat it'.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 07 Jun 18 - 01:23 PM

Wonder why.........?
Probably because the lowest value recently was 1.12537. It has since risen. Did you miss it?


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 07 Jun 18 - 01:14 PM

I note that although a post was made when the pound "soared" to 1.15 Euro's no mention has been made of it's subsequent "plummet" to 1.13 Euro's.

Wonder why ...........?


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 05 Jun 18 - 04:57 AM

12 hours minus 4 hrs for voting, divided by 15 topics is about half an hour each. I do not regard that as "plenty of time."

Leaving Brexit and the details of this topic aside for the moment, the whole mechanism of our system is that the revising chamber identifies area of a bills where it recommends the commons thinks more carefully. Having done so, the Commons may leave things unchanged or modify the proposal to address the concerns.

I do not agree that can be done adequately in 30 minutes (on average).


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 05 Jun 18 - 04:44 AM

Plenty of time to debate each amendment.
According to today's Telegraph (p2): "The House of Commons will spend more than 12 hours debating and voting on the amendments in a marathon session next Tuesday which is expected to go on into the early hours."


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: peteaberdeen
Date: 05 Jun 18 - 04:10 AM

no. and of course it's a very worrying tactic in steamrolling through a flawed, incomplete and harmful 'policy' Are our government really resorting to Trump tactics, steering toward the american model in their idiotic desire to reject european values like democracy proper process?

and - oh my sweet Jesus- will no-one think of the children and families? i seem to dimly recall that the government promised that they would sort this out right away. this when they were accused of using individuals as 'bargaining chips' - well, we still are and nothing is secure.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 04 Jun 18 - 01:34 PM

So votes on all 15 Lords amendments will take place on 12 June, it seems. The physical mechanics of voting takes around 15 minutes, so that's the best part of 4 hours of the day gone. Doesn't exactly leave a lot of time to actually debate each amendment, does it?


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 04 Jun 18 - 03:24 AM

Apologies for the spurious words I added to both Pete and Nigels formulations.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 04 Jun 18 - 02:19 AM

In my opinion, pete's formulation (no no-one really knows the full extent ...) is superior to Nigel's (No-one really knows the whether ...)

To begin with, pete's includes zero, so it subsumes the 'whether'. Then it is has a numerical value and so gives more information, whereas 'whether' is Boolean and so is less informative (in the information-theoretic sense.)

SO I don't think it can be classed as a false premise.

More legitimate would be to object to the framing. Pete's formulation refers to the full extent of the damage: it would be possible to reframe this as "no-one know the full extent of the benefits", which gives the same information, just changing the sign.

However, there are good reasons to use the 'damage' formulation, because it is standard business practice to do so: there is plenty you can read up online about risk assessment. But in short, the technique is to think about something and list all the problems it could have. Then alongside each of those you list what the impact if it occurs would be, an estimate of how probable it is and what you are doing to mitigate the risk.

All standard business practice. It doesn't matter how often people shout "Project Fear! Project Fear!", that is the normal method used throughout businesses everywhere. Nor do you wait until everything is over before carrying out the analysis; it is generally a business requirement to do it before attempting any change.

Pete's phraseology is in accord with that standard practice.

I have looked long and hard for any sign such an analysis has been done. Occasionally you get a leak to suggest something along those lines has been at least partially done, but it invariably dismissed as 'a working paper' or some such.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 03 Jun 18 - 07:27 PM

From: peteaberdeen
Date: 03 Jun 18 - 07:41 AM
no-one really knows the full extent of how much the uk will be damaged economically or politically.


Start an argument with a false premise, and then build on it.
Try: No-one really knows the whether the UK will be damaged economically or politically.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 03 Jun 18 - 01:53 PM

PSNI station sales on hold over Brexit uncertainty

While this is precautionary, it does not send a 'good signal', and emphasises the need to get the border sorted.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Jun 18 - 08:42 AM

Pete, I do not agree that we have shown "wilful disregard for co-operation with our neighbours."

We had hoped to continue exchanging intelligence and being part of military projects like Galileo.
It is the EU saying that will have to stop even though it is mutually beneficial.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 03 Jun 18 - 08:19 AM

I don't have anything really to add to that, pete, but I thought I'd demonstrate I had read it! I agree no-one knows how things will turn out, and maybe Iain is right to suggest in 50 years the historians might be wondering what all the fuss was about. But viewed from here and now, that's not how it looks to me.

Well done, Backwoodsman and Keith, though, in agreeing to let others judge who had the stronger case - I trust no-one is gauche enough to post their opinion on that: decide, yes, post, no.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: peteaberdeen
Date: 03 Jun 18 - 07:41 AM

no-one really knows the full extent of how much the uk will be damaged economically or politically. however, with the current shambles of a government it is not looking good. could any of us really feel secure that they will protect our interests effeciently.

anyway, we can already begin to see the effects socially. apart from the uncertainty felt by millions of civilians here and abroad there is the the wilful disregard for co-operation with our neighbours and, ultimately, the peace of the continent.

of course the EU has its problems but i would be much happier in a country that is part of the solution, instead of insulting our friends and stomping off in a disorganised and incoherent huff.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Jun 18 - 07:15 AM

Me too.


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Mudcat time: 18 June 2:36 AM EDT

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