BS: Post Brexit life in the UK

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 13 Nov 17 - 08:45 AM

A little question for you professor.

You clearly agree with the newspaper report that a rise of half of one cent (less than one half one one percent) in the value of the pound against the Euro equated to the pound "soaring".

So, since the "headline" that you got so excited about, the pound has fallen by one and a half cents. Three times as much.

So does this equate to the pound plummeting. Surely if the fall is three times greater it must do.

This is not even to mention the nineteen cent fall in the value of the pound since Brexit. (Funny, you never seem to mention that part)

We're all doooommmed !!!!

Anyway I'm off overseas shortly, I may read your answer later in the week.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Nov 17 - 09:15 AM

You clearly agree with the newspaper report that a rise of half of one cent (less than one half one one percent) in the value of the pound against the Euro equated to the pound "soaring".

No, I have no opinion on that and expressed none.
I only posted to correct your false assertion that the growth figures were bad.
They were good.
Good enough to trigger a rise in sterling.
You were wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 13 Nov 17 - 09:22 AM

If you want to believe that professor you carry on.

Anything to say about the nineteen cent fall since Brexit ..........

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Nov 17 - 09:26 AM

If you want to believe that professor you carry on.

WHAT HAVE I SAID THAT YOU DISBELIEVE???!!

Why are you unable to identify a single thing I have said that is wrong?

(answer, because there is nothing.)

Have a good trip Rag.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 13 Nov 17 - 10:00 AM

I will have a great trip, for one I have less temptation to read your drivel.

I have told you numerous times why I think a half a cent rise is not "soaring", you as usual ignore everything you don't like, so no change there.

Did you have a whip round in your church to donate to the Errislannan church thats been wrecked by vandals.

No ......... probably not.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Nov 17 - 11:37 AM

I have told you numerous times why I think a half a cent rise is not "soaring", you as usual ignore everything you don't like, so no change there.

But I never said it.

I have less temptation to read your drivel.

You have failed to identify anything I have said that is not accurate and true.

I identified your claim that the growth figures were bad as wrong, and it was.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 13 Nov 17 - 11:48 AM

grow up professor

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Nov 17 - 11:52 AM

Why, what have I said that was wrong?
You have failed to find a single fault in my posts.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Stu
Date: 13 Nov 17 - 11:54 AM

Give over you two. Get a room.

Meanwhile, any deal will be voted on as it will be an act of parliament. Yay! There's a chance we can stop this madness.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 13 Nov 17 - 12:14 PM

No doubt David Davies is a liberal leftie out to wreck Brexit.


We will see more concessions in Parliament and to the EU in the next few weeks, I suspect.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: akenaton
Date: 13 Nov 17 - 05:54 PM

David Davis, has behaved very shrewdly and has spiked the guns of the people who wish to reverse the referendum result.

The wrecking crew in parliament can now have their vote on whatever deal is available and if it is not to their liking, Britian will leave the EU and operate as a sovereign nation under WTO rules.
This has the added advantage that if in the unlikely event of something going wrong, it can be blamed on the bloody mindedness of the "remainers" in parliament and their cheerleaders in the country.

Checkmate.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Nov 17 - 06:40 PM

Cor. Been away, more or less, for a day since my last post to this thread, and it looks like the cockroaches have well and truly crawled out of the woodwork! Viz:

"I wonder how many teachers you need to give an equivalent tax take from their salaries? How many shaw clones?"

"Now just sit back and wait for the usual insults and threats to run and tell his mummy report me to the moderators."

"Interesting admission there, hidden away in the usual bile."

"Lol........a teacher of science to school children who fancies himself a scientist."

"' I know nothing' This from a well educated scientist that does not distinguish between fact and fiction."

"Finally an admission from the sad fellow."

My, I feel complimented! Nothing so fine as observing other fellows' insecurities. The common factor gleaned from the above "contributions" is that the chap I've quoted contruibute absolutely nothing, ever, to any of these discussions. In the words of the psychiaristbin thstbwobderful episode of Fawlty Towers, there's enough materual here for a whole conference! 😂

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Nov 17 - 06:44 PM

Gosh, it's been a long day with hundreds of miles of boggle-eyed driving! Here's the last paragraph again, unscrambled this time.

"The common factor gleaned from the above "contributions" is that the chaps I've quoted contribute absolutely nothing, ever, to any of these discussions. In the words of the psychiatrist in that wonderful episode of Fawlty Towers, there's enough material here for a whole conference! 😂"

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 13 Nov 17 - 09:06 PM

By your own admission YOU haven't said anything, so do us all a favour and get the journalist who wrote the article to post on here and I will discuss the matter with him, or perferably shut up until such times as YOU have something interesting to contribute.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 14 Nov 17 - 02:17 AM

That's an interesting analysis, Ake. As you would expect I don't see it that way. But Ithat's ok: I never claim perfection of vision.   I agree it would be a Machiavellian level of shrewdness if this was Davis' plan all along and he fooled people into thinking they had wrung this out of him but in actuality they had unwittingly contributed to his Grand Plan. But It seems very unlikely.

I am a bit disappointed by the last bit though - do you really think it is manouvering to allocate blame for anything that might go wrong? After all, if the vote went Davis's way it would be the deal he negotiated so no one else is 'to blame' and if the vote is rejected it would be WTO rules which many people here including you have argued for, so again I don't see how those who voted against the deal could be sensibly blamed for anything that went wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 14 Nov 17 - 03:39 AM

As I understand the latest plan for a 'Final vote' put forward by David Davis:
Once all the negotiations are complete, the results will be put to Parliament, and if the 'Remain' side manage to vote it down, we leave on WTO terms.
Similarly, if we increase our offer for a 'divorce settlement', negotiations can proceed immediately. If we don't then get enough movement on our other requirements (to justify the new payment), then when the vote comes the 'Leave' side can vote it down, and we leave on WTO terms (with no 'Divorce settlement').

It looks good to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Stu
Date: 14 Nov 17 - 03:42 AM

So... it's actually not such a good vote at all. Either go with the deal the incompetent idiots manage to eek out or crash out with no deal. It's a shame those who support leaving with no deal won't be the ones to suffer; their lack of understanding and empathy for those that will tells us a lot about them.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: akenaton
Date: 14 Nov 17 - 03:45 AM

Well it's hypothetical "D", but if a deal was struck with the EU which was then voted down by the people in parliament who are opposed to leaving, then if things do not work out in practice with WTO rules, it can surely be claimed that the original deal should have been allowed to pass?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: akenaton
Date: 14 Nov 17 - 03:47 AM

Stu's post illustrates the undemocratic stance of most "remainers" and their real ideologically based motivation.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: akenaton
Date: 14 Nov 17 - 04:01 AM

I think, "hung by their own petard" could well be appropriate to the "remainers"?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Nov 17 - 04:09 AM

Rag,
By your own admission YOU haven't said anything,

I have. I said that you were wrong about the growth figures. They were good.

so do us all a favour and get the journalist who wrote the article to post on here

It was the Economic Correspondents of both the Telegraph and the Independent. Take it up with them

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 14 Nov 17 - 04:23 AM

So... it's actually not such a good vote at all.

Don't worry about that too much Stu - there's some 300 amendments to go through yet. The important thing is not the proposal but the acceptance that Parliament as a whole has a say it. Once that has been accepted in principle, the exact nature of the vote can be determined during the thrashing around the details of the bill that will occupy the next few weeks.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Stu
Date: 14 Nov 17 - 04:37 AM

I am holding out hope for the amendments, it's the only chance both sides get a say in how the negotiating can be shaped. The idea of a fixed leaving date is utterly idiotic; even the most inexperienced businessperson knows full well that fixing a date like this will lead to unwanted compromise and the sort of pressure that can lead to mistakes. I'm not against deadlines as such (I work to hard deadlines myself all the time) as they can concentrate the mind wonderfully, but they also take away any flexibility and if you don't need to have one, there's no good reason to impose one, unless it's to placate your own back benchers.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: akenaton
Date: 14 Nov 17 - 04:52 AM

The only "thrashing about" is in the legs of the "remainers"

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Nov 17 - 05:28 AM

You can't be "hung by your own petard." A petard was a metal bomb filled with gunpowder. The saying is "hoist with your own petard." "Hoist" in that sense does not quite mean yanked up, as by a pulley. It's the variant past participle of a defunct verb "hoise" which possibly meant, in the sense above, blown sky high (or at least up into the air) by your own bomb. The phrase was famously used by Shakespeare in Hamlet. Hope this helps him who who is, sadly however, quite likely beyond all help.

The concept of that final Commons vote is a sham. There will be no split. Either all will vote yes to any deal or the whole thing will look so hopeless that the powers that be will recommend a vote against and all will follow. The people are watching, along with the Daily Mail, and the hard electoral realties will be casting their shadow over the whole charade. Long before then, what we need is for May, Corbyn, Cable and Sturgeon to lock themselves in a room and not emerge until they have produced a no-quibble joint statement thrashed out to the effect that, in the interests of this country, the brexit process will be halted forthwith, and including an agreement that there will be will a major push by the UK to start negotiations on the reform of the EU. We are far from alone in Europe in desiring that.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: akenaton
Date: 14 Nov 17 - 05:37 AM

" I agree it would be a Machiavellian level of shrewdness if this was Davis' plan all along and he fooled people into thinking they had wrung this out of him but in actuality they had unwittingly contributed to his Grand Plan. But It seems very unlikely."

I think "D" that Mr Davis is well aware of the old adage ...and I paraphrase just for Steve :0), when one sups with the devil, one needs an exceedingly long spoon.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: akenaton
Date: 14 Nov 17 - 06:05 AM

From Steve. :0)......"My, I feel complimented! Nothing so fine as observing other fellows' insecurities."

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Nov 17 - 06:25 AM

"Stu's post illustrates the undemocratic stance of most "remainers" and their real ideologically based motivation."

Nope. Your attitude to remainers is quasi-totalitarian. You seem obsessed by wanting to shut us up. A minority (and a pretty large one at that) arguing against a process that they see as being against the interests of the country is a very democratic thing and you should be applauding the fact that we live in a country where such freedoms exist. Your persistent carping about how we are being undemocratic and how we are undermining brexit is a sure sign that you yourself are frightened of confronting the hard realities of whst is going on and feel wobbly about the whole thing. And so you should, as should all of us.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Stu
Date: 14 Nov 17 - 06:26 AM

It's just so depressing that the hard Brexiteers are dominating the debate, for all the whining about democracy and "taking back control" when the push comes to shove the Brexiteers are looking after their vested interests and trying to impose their own ideology. So when remainers say "fair enough, we're leaving" (and most have, however unhappy we are about it) and want to get involved in the manner of our departure and the implications for us all we are totally left out of the debate unless we agree with a few hardened tory eurosceptics.

This is utterly wrong, and leads to massive resentment. If the hard Brexiteers won't even entertain the idea that they might have to compromise some of THEIR long-held convictions then what choice does anyone in opposition have but to either a) alter the terms and process to allow more debate and get some influence on the negotiation or b) Say "fuck it" as no-one is listening or interested in meaningful dialogue and work to scupper the Brexit completely.

Simply sating that because people voted remain they can no longer have a say in the democratic process including Brexit is not only wrong, it's divisive, hypocritical and has to be called out.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Stu
Date: 14 Nov 17 - 08:35 AM

Aaaaaannnnnnnndddddd... the Russians are here! So yesterday MayBot ranted on about the Russians meddling in elections (referendums?) in during her speech the Guildhall, and now Dirty Damien has come out with this, after it was revealed a Russian agent tried to stir up anti-muslim sentiment following the attack on Westminster bridge.

British MP calls on Twitter to release Russian 'troll factory' tweets

Given we know Farage was not only a huge admirer of Putin but has been linked to meetings between the Russians and the Trump campaign, I wonder if these sudden announcements are paving the way for some more news. Putin will love Brexit as it accomplishes his aims of destabilising the EU and taking the UK off the world stage as a major player; it's not inconceivable he is involved somewhere in all this.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Greg F.
Date: 14 Nov 17 - 08:54 AM

"hung by their own petard"

More appropriate to your grasp of things, Ake. Do look up the definition of petard, and than explain this "hanging" bit.

Thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: akenaton
Date: 14 Nov 17 - 12:04 PM

Hung by the neck or blown up by their own explosives, makes no difference really ......they're toast!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 14 Nov 17 - 12:15 PM

"My, I feel complimented! Nothing so fine as observing other fellows' insecurities."
The well educated scientist that knows nothing is now trying to kid us that he can remote sense insecurity. All this without any formal qualifications to lend a tad of authenticity to his warblings!
Now if we consider the findings of Viennese psychoanalyst Alfred Adler, who coined the term inferiority complex, we can recognise certain traits in certain of our posters. According to Adler, people who feel inferior go about their days overcompensating through what he called ?striving for superiority.? The only way these inwardly uncertain people can feel happy is by making others decidedly unhappy. To Adler, this striving for superiority lies at the core of neurosis. Now who can we recognise here
I wonder. It seems to fit the boy blunder like a glove!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Nov 17 - 12:51 PM

Well I certainly appear to be better educated than you. At my school they taught us how to proceed with civility and good manners. At least when I fall short of that I'm doing it voluntarily. You appear not to be able to help it. Now this is a brexit thread, apparently. Perhaps you'd consider making your next post relevant to the topic instead of making it yet another senseless and childish tirade of rudeness.   Moving on.

I notice that there is no unanimity among Tory MPs regarding the setting of a fixed leaving date (not just a date, but even the hour of the day fer chrissake). In normal times I'd find typical Tory blunders of that kind, attracting ridicule as they do, amusing. But these are not normal times and what I'm not seeing is serious politicians doing a serious job. We're in big trouble, aren't we?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: akenaton
Date: 14 Nov 17 - 12:58 PM

No, David Davis knows exactly what he is doing.....next Tory leader?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 14 Nov 17 - 01:29 PM

I see the first frosts have caused a dieback in the weed population. How sad!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Stu
Date: 14 Nov 17 - 02:10 PM

Watching the news coverage of the debate. There is a fair wodge of tories who are not happy with the fact the brexiteers seem intent on us crashing out without a deal. Tories tearing themselves to bits live on telly.

Triffic entertainment.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 15 Nov 17 - 04:15 AM

From: Steve Shaw - PM
Date: 14 Nov 17 - 12:51 PM
Well I certainly appear to be better educated than you. At my school they taught us how to proceed with civility and good manners. At least when I fall short of that I'm doing it voluntarily.

An involuntary lapse in civility or good manners may just be a slip. To deliberately lapse is just bad manners. It seems the teaching didn't take.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Nov 17 - 04:22 AM

Nice to see all those tories up in arms at being called brexit mutineers by the Torygraph. Wonder why they are not up in arms when the tory rags are demonising Corbyn and the Labour party?

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 15 Nov 17 - 04:38 AM

Back to the subject matter, the current moves to set the date for our exit are clearly designed to give a degree of certainty to proceedings.
There have been enough complaints that indecision and uncertainty are not helping businesses. Having a definitely set date will help alleviate these.
Not having a clearly set date runs the risk of Brexit suffering delays while the various parties continue to squabble.
A large majority in Parliament voted to issue Article 50, why the resistance to setting the timetable?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 15 Nov 17 - 04:43 AM

Well, here is one scenario. Suppose absolutely everything is agreed by that date except one item of significance - for instance some aspect of the Northern Ireland border. Let's also assume both sides are confident it can be settled with a further two weeks of discussion.

Does it make sense to say we have reached an arbitrary point in time, so we will throw out everything we have agreed to go with something we both think is worse?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 15 Nov 17 - 05:01 AM

From: DMcG - PM
Date: 15 Nov 17 - 04:43 AM
Well, here is one scenario. Suppose absolutely everything is agreed by that date except one item of significance - for instance some aspect of the Northern Ireland border. Let's also assume both sides are confident it can be settled with a further two weeks of discussion.
Does it make sense to say we have reached an arbitrary point in time, so we will throw out everything we have agreed to go with something we both think is worse?

If they can get everything else sorted within the timescale, I can hardly believe that a final matter should take another two weeks. By giving a definitive timescale they have to work to have everything completed. Otherwise it may become 'another two weeks' which becomes another month . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 15 Nov 17 - 05:14 AM

So is that scenario impossible? Unlikely, I grant. But impossible?

And by the way you notice I said 'both sides' were confident it could be resolved. I can certainly imagine ways that could arise. It might, for example, need a formal signature by all those who were party to the Good Friday agreement. That is, the proposal might all settled in principle but the formalities were incomplete. Under a fixed timetable all would be jettisoned.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Nov 17 - 05:20 AM

By way of a little light relief but indicating that the two halves will never agree - about anything!

Remainers and leavers are worlds apart

Well done steaks? Nah...

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Nov 17 - 05:52 AM

I know that nothing about any of this farcical tragedy is supposed to be funny, but I notice that the time of our departure has been set for midnight on 29 March 2019.

That would be midnight Central European Time.

So that's 11pm UK time.

So we can't even walk out in triumph having "taken back control" of the clock. The very last act of the EU will be to nick an hour off us!

Oh, and by the way, Nigel, here's an entirely voluntary lapse in my customary good manners: sod off.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 15 Nov 17 - 06:05 AM

" my customary good manners:" you'r 'aving a laff boy!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Nov 17 - 06:15 AM

Good survey, that one, Dave. So, if you voted leave, you are more likely:

...to be Islamophobic (attitude to burqa)

...to be racist (see above, plus attitude to golliwog acceptability)

...to be a fan of Donal-Jerk (they didn't find a single remainer who was a fan of Trump)

...to be a climate change denier (attitude to Paris agreement and to fracking)

...to be anti-BBC (even though it's demonstrable that the BBC is overwhelmingly establishment and Tory)

...uninformed about the funding of public services such as education

...homophobic (attitude to gay sex and whether you "choose" to be gay)

...and illiberal (attitude to abortion).

Not tarring anyone. I only said "more likely."

But well-done steaks? Give over. A well-done steak is not a steak. I can forgive most things, but I cannot condone "well-done steaks." And I will not pay five quid for a steak then put ketchup on it. Not even Heinz.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Nov 17 - 06:21 AM

From: Iains -

" my customary good manners:" you'r 'aving a laff boy!

Hmm... Spot the irony, chaps, not to speak of the abundant signs of a poor education. All in such a short post too! 😂

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Stu
Date: 15 Nov 17 - 07:09 AM

Oh dear.

Russia used hundreds of fake accounts to tweet about Brexit, data shows

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Nov 17 - 08:00 AM

Taking about Russia - 1200!

The engine size of my first Lada

:D