BS: Post Brexit life in the UK

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 08 Feb 18 - 11:48 AM

They promised us a referendum, and delivered.
Tony Blair promised a referendum, but didn't deliver.
Gordon Brown promised a referendum, but didn't deliver.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 08 Feb 18 - 11:50 AM

That was in response to:
From: peteaberdeen
Date: 08 Feb 18 - 11:28 AM

what are the positive reasons for maintaining any faith in the tory government?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: peteglasgow
Date: 08 Feb 18 - 12:10 PM

i was rather hoping for a few reasons for supporting the current government on matters not exclusively related to brexit. however, since you (inevitably) mention it - are you entirely satisfied with the way that the tories are handling the negotiations? how do you feel about the way they are running down all the publis services that we rely on? are you confident they will leave a happier and more prosperous country for us and our children?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 08 Feb 18 - 12:30 PM

From: Backwoodsman - PM
Date: 08 Feb 18 - 11:43 AM
(1)Nigs, as understanding the concept of irony is obviously not one of your talents, I'll explain in little words that you might understand.
(2)Unicorns are mythical animals (mythical means 'fictitious').
(3)The claims made by the BrexShit Buffoons, Bozo, Gove, and Farridge, are fictitious.
(4)You believe their fictitious claims, ergo it is reasonable to assume you, Keefy, Teribians, etc. believe in unicorns.
(5)Cold in Sheffield?

(1) I understand irony, although it is difficult to identify in the written medium, with no 'tone of voice' or 'body language' to identify when it may be being used.
(2) Mythical means related to traditional stories. That is possibly fictitious, but also possibly factual. I will accept that Unicorns can be both mythical and fictitious, but the two words are not interchangeable
(3) While the claims made by Brexit may eventually prove to be false, they cannot be 'fictitious' if you and others are able to quote them.
(4) I believe that they are making claims for what we can hope to achieve. Obstruction from certain quarters may make this harder. Whether or not I believe in unicorns is nothing to do with Brexit.
(5) What has Sheffield to do with anything?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 08 Feb 18 - 12:34 PM

From: peteaberdeen
Date: 08 Feb 18 - 12:10 PM
I was rather hoping for a few reasons for supporting the current government on matters not exclusively related to brexit. however, since you (inevitably) mention it

The subject matter of this discussion is Brexit. I thought that was what you were discussing.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 08 Feb 18 - 01:03 PM

Just to add confusion, Not all unicorns are either mythical or fictitious

While the claims made by Brexit may eventually prove to be false, they cannot be 'fictitious' if you and others are able to quote them


Not so:

'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves,
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe ...


Of course fictional things can be quoted.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Feb 18 - 02:23 PM

Nigs...

1) Agreed

2) Oxforddictionaries.com - check out #1.2

3) 'False' is equally as applicable as 'fictitious', AFAIC. The BrexShit campaigners ran a campaign which used falsehoods to take advantage of people's fears and prejudices. No substance, no facts, no plan, nothing other than a range of falsehoods varying between dark hints to barefaced lies.

4) If you, Keefy, Boob-ad, and Teribiains voted for the most momentous, far-reaching, and economically-dangerous change in UK history since 1945 on the basis of nothing more than 'hope', driven by a campaign of rabble-rousing and fear-mongering, you are all even more ridiculously irresponsible than I thought.

5) You tell me.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: peteglasgow
Date: 08 Feb 18 - 03:26 PM

i did attempt a slight detour in that it's not all about brexit. given that the government are making a mess of everything else i was just asking if anyone has any confidence in their ability to do anything with any competence. i have had no response yet (other than they suggested a referendum - which basically means 'we don't know what we should do-what do you think we should do? then we will ignore your response(s) and do what our far right wing want us to do) but seriously, is anybody thinking that the tories are not in complete chaos?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Feb 18 - 03:36 PM

Mythical means related to traditional stories.

mythical
?m???k?l/
adjective
adjective: mythical

    occurring in or characteristic of myths or folk tales.
    "one of Denmark's greatest mythical heroes"
    synonyms:        legendary, mythological, fabled, fabulous, folkloric, fairy-tale, storybook, chimerical; More
    fantastical, imaginary, imagined, fictitious;
    allegorical, symbolic, symbolical, parabolic
    "dragons and other mythical beasts"
       idealized, especially with reference to the past.
       "a mythical age of contentment and social order"
       fictitious.
       "a mythical customer whose name appears in brochures promoting the bank's services"
       synonyms:        imaginary, fictitious, make-believe, fantasy, fanciful, invented, fabricated, made-up, unreal, untrue, non-existent; informalpretend
       "the girl claimed that Tyler was the father of her mythical child"
       antonyms:        real, actual

Different language anyone?

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 08 Feb 18 - 05:37 PM

Japan writes to May in favour of UK staying in customs union and single market

The?Japanese?ambassador has warned?Theresa May?that his country?s firms will quit Britain if a botched?Brexit?makes it "unprofitable" to stay.

Koji Tsuruoka laid bare growing nervousness about the impact of EU withdrawal on the Japanese?car giants, banks and tech companies after meeting the Prime Minister in Downing Street.

"If there is no profitability of continuing operation in [the] UK, not Japanese only, no private company can continue operations," Mr Tsuruoka said.


Verhofstadt accuses May ally of spreading 'far-right' propaganda

"So it is as simple as that. And this is all high stakes that I think all of us need to keep in mind."

The warning comes after the Japanese government, in a leaked letter, called on Ms May to keep Britain in the EU?single market?and?customs union?and maintain a free flow of workers.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Feb 18 - 08:31 PM

Anna Soubry on This Week was convinced that Theresa May is seriously underestimating the right-wing brexiteers. Their ilk brought down Major, they brought down Cameron and, as sure as eggs are eggs, May will be next. Soubry thinks it's inevitable. They always get what they want. There may well be an election before brexit and I think the Tories would win. And it would solve precisely nothing.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 09 Feb 18 - 03:43 AM

From: DMcG - PM
Date: 08 Feb 18 - 01:03 PM
Just to add confusion, Not all unicorns are either mythical or fictitious
While the claims made by Brexit may eventually prove to be false, they cannot be 'fictitious' if you and others are able to quote them

Not so:
'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves,
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe ...

Of course fictional things can be quoted.

I didn't claim that fictional things can't be quoted. But 'fictional' & 'fictitious' are not interchangeable.
Lewis Carroll's writings are a matter of fact, they can be found in any good library. While their subject matter may be fictional, one can still quote them.
If you tried to attribute something to Lewis Carroll which he didn't write/say then that would be a fictitious quotation.

As Dave The Gnome says:
Different language anyone?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Feb 18 - 03:48 AM

Glad you are learning, Nigel :-)

Next lesson, why people using different languages should not try to discuss complex concepts with each other.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 09 Feb 18 - 04:06 AM

I won't get into trading dictionary definitions with you, Nigel. We are discussing matters that for good or ill will dramatically affect the country. I posted a link about Japan wanting us to stay in the customs union and single market. That matters. How various words are derived from the Latin 'ficticius' is fiddling while the proverbial burns.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 09 Feb 18 - 04:28 AM

From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Feb 18 - 02:23 PM
. . .
3) 'False' is equally as applicable as 'fictitious', AFAIC. The BrexShit campaigners ran a campaign which used falsehoods to take advantage of people's fears and prejudices. No substance, no facts, no plan, nothing other than a range of falsehoods varying between dark hints to barefaced lies.

In case you didn't notice the 'Remain' campaign also "ran a campaign which used falsehoods to take advantage of people's fears and prejudices. No substance, no facts, no plan, nothing other than a range of falsehoods varying between dark hints to barefaced lies"

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Feb 18 - 04:44 AM

In case you didn't notice the 'Remain' campaign also... etc

Whataboutism at its very worst. Since when did two wrongs make a right?

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Feb 18 - 09:05 AM

What Nigel sez is actually true, though, Dave. Both sides lied in their teeth and made unjustifiable predictions for post-brexit or post-referendum. So here's the summary:

We were subjected to a campaign in which both sides lied to us.

By the end of the campaign, very little by way of the TRUE brexit pro and cons had been elucidated.

38% of the electorate voted leave, a narrow majority of those who voted.

The leave side have justified this shenanigans by telling us things like "the nation has decided," "the people have spoken," "it was the greatest exercise in democracy the country has ever undertaken," etc.

So, Nigel, as you agree that both sides ran a dishonest campaign, and I won't disagree with that, do you also agree that the referendum was far from being a valid exercise in democracy, that it is not valid to claim that "the people have spoken" and that the outcome should in no way mean that the thing is now a justified fait accomplis? Can you also justify the fact that it wasn't the people, it wasn't parliament, it wasn't even the cabinet, but that it was a wallowing, indecisive prime minister and a now-discredited personal adviser who, alone, decided that the referendum result gave them a mandate to declare that it meant leaving the customs union and single market? Don't remember seeing that on my ballot paper. It may have been said during the campaign, but haven't we just agreed that we couldn't trust anything said during the campaign by either side?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Feb 18 - 10:01 AM

Both sides lied in their teeth and made unjustifiable predictions

They did indeed, Steve. It must therefore follow that the leave campaign was better at lying :-P

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 09 Feb 18 - 10:59 AM

Meanwhile, looking forward rather than debating the past of dictionaries, the Guardian is reporting this:

===============================

In the first of a series of steps to deal with the possibility of failing to reach a deal with the EU, the UK is signing up to a United Nations convention on road traffic, which theoretically also affects zebra crossings and parking.

The 1968 Vienna convention, which Britain previously avoided joining because it was too burdensome, has become an urgent necessity because the EU will no longer recognise UK-issued licences after Brexit and could ban all drivers and vehicles without an alternative agreement.
...
Insiders say the prospect of triggering this wave of extra red tape had led to furious rows within Whitehall but the lack of alternatives has forced proposed legislation – the haulage permits and trailer registration bill – to be rushed into the Lords.
...
But the biggest long-term challenge for the UK freight industry is the tiny number of travel permits potentially available for British truck drivers if there is no other solution found through an EU trade deal.

Under existing international treaties there are between 103 and 1,224 permits a year available to deal with more than 300,000 journeys by 75,000 British trucks.
===============================

This would only come into play in a 'no deal' scenario, but we all know that is better than a bad deal, don't we?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 09 Feb 18 - 11:00 AM

* the past OR dictionaries

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 09 Feb 18 - 12:05 PM

There is a way around this for people like myself DmCG.

I have enquired about taking my driving test in Ireland and was told I cannot hold two licences.

However I can swop my UK licence for an Irish licence.

I have not as yet enquired as to what this would do to my insurance costs, I suspect they may well escalate somewhat if I were to follow this route.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Feb 18 - 12:25 PM

"It must therefore follow that the leave campaign was better at lying"

Well they were as bad as each other, and it sticks in the craw to think that bloody Osborne was both a leading light and the biggest liar on our side. The leave side, not through any particular talent, had all the best slogans, the sort of stuff parroted out that appealed to the lowest common denominator, things like take back control, unelected bureaucrats in Brussels, ever-closer union, United States of Europe, immigrants driving down our wages, immigrants putting strain on the NHS, immigration out of control, give sovereignty back to parliament, that sort of thing. They didn't even have to rely on the straightness of cucumbers or the size of duck eggs but I bet they were bloody tempted. In any second referendum they'd still have all those but they'd also have the additional one, the clincher, that remoaners are undemocratic and want to keep having referendums until they get the result they want.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 09 Feb 18 - 01:47 PM

"In any second referendum they'd still have all those but they'd also have the additional one, the clincher, that remoaners are undemocratic and want to keep having referendums until they get the result they want".
A clincher indeed! Game, set match I believe.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Feb 18 - 02:02 PM

Game, set match I believe.

For whom?

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 09 Feb 18 - 04:48 PM

For those that believe that a democratic vote won by the majority should be honoured. An alien concept to labour voters judging by previous performance.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 09 Feb 18 - 04:53 PM

But not workers, apparently

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Feb 18 - 05:27 PM

vote won by the majority

Which majority is that? You mean like the one that elected tRUMP?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Feb 18 - 05:32 PM

Define "the majority," Iains. Don't forget to factor in that 38%, largely of oldies who won't be affected...

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 10 Feb 18 - 03:35 AM

No need to go round the arguments of the referendum numbers again. It just gives everyone an excuse to avoid looking at the current news

* Japanese statements about moving out of the UK if we leave the customs union and single market
* the consideration of reducing workers rights in government documents
* the parliamentary votes against mechanisms to protect those rights
* the current fights in the government 'war cabinet' and its continuing failure to decide a way forward
* the Irish border rearing its head again
* the impact on hauliers of the licencing

... it goes on and on. And those are only the ones in the news at the moment.

"Game, set and match" - as if this had no more significance than a game of tennis. Dismal.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 10 Feb 18 - 04:21 AM

"Define "the majority," Iains."

A well educated scientist, biologist,botanist, bullshit artist should be capable of using a dictionary. And before you start your usual babbling of how many voted for what, read what is below.

As NIGEL said some months ago:
"It's interesting, this idea of retrospectively changing the rules, and retaining the status quo if a certain threshold isn't reached.

Of course, if the 2016 referendum were revised in this strange fashion, we would need to also look at the 1975 referendum which bound us to the EU. That was a 67.23% 'Yes' vote, on the basis of a 64.2% turnout.
So only 43.2% of the eligible electorate voted to bind us to the EU.

That's it, either we stick with the results of the recent referendum and we're out of the EU,
Or, we review (and overturn) both referendums and are out of the EU.


"Simples"

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 10 Feb 18 - 04:39 AM

No need to go round the arguments of the referendum numbers again. It just gives everyone an excuse to avoid looking at the current news

As you see just above.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Feb 18 - 04:46 AM

Ok. A large majority of the electorate did not vote to leave the EU. An even larger majority of those who will be most affected, the young, did not vote to leave. Not one person in this country ticked a box on the ballot paper that said we should leave the customs union and single market. These are the hard facts, Iains. "The people have spoken" is not a hard fact.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 10 Feb 18 - 04:55 AM

No need to go round the arguments of the referendum numbers again. It just gives everyone an excuse to avoid looking at the current news

And in the interests of fairness, the same applies to you, Steve. I deliberately left 15 minutes after Iains' post to give him a chance to address something in the current news, but he chose not to. Now it looks like we are heading off a well worn path where we all know each others' arguments and counter arguments.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 10 Feb 18 - 05:42 AM

DmcG. So far all we have is each side trying to outdo each other will the equivalent of halloween scare stories. No hard facts, just forecasts and conjecture.
Until something is fully fleshed out as fact we sit on a very boring magic roundabout, with repetitions of" he said, you said!"

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 10 Feb 18 - 05:51 AM

" Don't forget to factor in that 38%, largely of oldies who won't be affected... "
Ageism at its worst. Shaw you should be ashamed of yourself. Call yourself a well educated man? You portray all the attributes of a miserable failed self proclaimed union activist.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 10 Feb 18 - 05:55 AM


DmcG. So far all we have is each side trying to outdo each other will the equivalent of halloween scare stories. No hard facts, just forecasts and conjecture

That's not all we have, by any means. The documents saying reduction of worker's right is considered a possibility is fact, not conjecture. The votes in Parliament against adding supervision to changes to those rights are fact, not conjecture. That the government 'war cabinet' was unable to report an agreed position is fact, not conjecture. The need to introduce the transport bill to address one of the EU stated consequences of a 'no deal' is fact, not conjecture.

All of these are things you can comment on without getting into forecasts or conjecture.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 10 Feb 18 - 06:01 AM

If Shaw wishes to disenfranchise a swathe of society I would start by eliminating those that pay zero tax. That would wipe out the young, unemployed, and probably many pensioners.(oh Dear, jeremy!)

My slogan would be: No pay, No say.

(Any past member of the armed services would be entitled to vote for life)

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Feb 18 - 06:34 AM

Sorry, DMcG, whilst I generally agree with you on this topic, I think it's vitally important to keep banging out those obstinate facts. It could be that we will reach crisis point in the next weeks or months. It may even come to asking the British people that question again. All the arguments for remain that we've articulated far more clearly during the referendum would be required all over again in what will inevitably be another extremely lopsided campaign. We would be up against brexiteers who will be calling us anti-democratic. Every argument in our armoury will be needed and will need to be far more clearly and candidly put than they were in the hysterical, undemocratic referendum campaign. The demograhic details of the vote, which, obviously, we didn't have last time, are grist to our mill. It's my opinion that the remainers have done pretty well in crystallising the arguments, though few leavers have yet been persuaded. On the other hand, leavers are stuck with the stale sloganising that characterised their campaign, and, as events pan out, their arguments look more and more threadbare by the day. You only have to look at Iains' frustrated return to his gutter if you want an example of how worried they are.

Do grow up, by the way, Iains.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 10 Feb 18 - 06:55 AM

It could be that we will reach crisis point in the next weeks or months

I agree that could happen. As I have said before I am opposed to a second referendum in principle, and the fact it would undoubtedly be as deceitful as last time for the reasons you list just makes me more convinced it would be a bad idea. The 'meaningful' vote in Parliament is, in my view, the right way to go, though how to make it meaningful is a really difficult one, especially as the whipping will be in full force.

Again, an election doesn't seem too promising. Re-electing the Conservatives would not really alter anything - the Irish border question for example would be the same. If Labour won, they would be doomed for years to the blame of 'getting Brexit wrong' whatever happened.

I don't really have a problem with raising the details of the referendum as and when. It just seems rather pointless to do it *here* as the views on both sides are so settled and the arguments so familiar.

So, for example, I would prefer to hear whether leavers here, who argue that Parliament must be sovereign, think it right that Parliament should be refused oversight if a minister wants to change working conditions by using Henry VIII powers. Remember in the future that could be a minister of any political persuasion. That seems more likely to lead to more fruitful discussion.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Feb 18 - 07:23 AM

So far all we have is each side trying to outdo each other will the equivalent of halloween scare stories. No hard facts, just forecasts and conjecture.

So, I shall ask once again, game, set and match to who?

Anyway, as DMcG points out. We should be concentrating on the news. There is plenty there and all, seemingly, negative. I know someone asked before but I don't think there was ever a reply. Can anyone come up with any positive news about leaving the EU?

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Feb 18 - 07:30 AM

I should also like to hear how leavers reconcile their bleating about getting back the sovereignty of parliament, taking back control, etc., with the fact that parliament has not been consulted about the unilateral decision by Theresa May alone that the vote meant that we leave the customs union and single market, a question never put to the country, parliament or even her own cabinet. And that's on top of the Henry VIII power-grab and the thwarted attempt to bypass parliament in invoking Article 50. We've seen this democratic deficit, ironically something the EU is supposed to be guilty of, persistently resorted to by this government. "Democracy is a great idea as long as it suits the Tories" appears to be the new Tory mantra.

By the way, in my last post the sentence "All the arguments for remain that we've articulated far more clearly during the referendum..." should have read "...since the referendum..."

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Feb 18 - 10:03 AM

There will be no meaningful vote in parliament as party lines will be followed by almost everybody. It will be no more meaningful than the vote to hold a referendum or the vote to invoke Article 50, in both of which hundreds of MPs voted contrary to what they knew to be in the country's best interests for fear of turning their own parties and own careers into toast. This country desperately needs an anti-brexit opposition, and that can happen effectively only when Labour decides to fight for what a majority of its supporters in the electorate and almost its members voted for, which was to stay in the EU. Labour will not win the next election in any case, so that's one less reason for them to hold back. If Labour decide to follow that path in the interests of this country they will be the leading voice in a de facto progressive alliance which will not be far short of the Tory/DUP numbers. And I wouldn't mind betting that a few Tories would "defect." That would be interesting. There's an argument to be made. When I meet other Labour supporters, that's what I'm saying to 'em. And I'm not proposing a democratic sellout here either. Democracy has been sidelined in this country ever since the referendum was first called. I haven't read in any manifesto for democracy that states that the people shall be given a vote after being comprehensively lied to by both sides of the argument for six months.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 10 Feb 18 - 11:15 AM

Iains, I do not know one single person of voting age who does not pay tax. We are taxed on nearly everything we do. Pay a fuel bill, it's taxed, buy some petrol,it's taxed, but a beer it's taxed, but a packet of fags it's taxed etc etc etc

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Feb 18 - 12:30 PM

A child with sufficient income pays tax, same rule as for everyone else. Elderly people on low incomes will have paid tax during their working lives. Anyone who has ever worked has paid national insurance, which is tax. Every household pays council tax, which is tax. As Raggytash says, VAT is paid on most things you buy. Tax. Many imported goods you buy will have been subject to import duties, a tax that is passed on to the consumer. You don't always see the fax you pay but you'd have to be a bloody genius to avoid tax altogether. Point demolished, I think.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 10 Feb 18 - 12:55 PM

Income tax! idiots.
Nothing childish about pointing out your ageism shaw. You like to call out others for everything under the sun. You made a distinctly ageist statement- you should apologise and withdraw the remark. But no, you will continue to bluster away as always when caught out.I notice all the crumblies here are keeping very quiet. Too scared to put your heads above the parapet? or you all agree to being disenfranchised?
Pathetic bunch!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 10 Feb 18 - 02:00 PM

I am intriged, Iains. My wife left work at 60 but does not draw any pension or have any other source of income until she is 67. Do you insist she should not have the vote?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Feb 18 - 02:02 PM

I'm not blustering. I simply haven't a clue what you're on about, you poor thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 10 Feb 18 - 05:04 PM

From: DMcG
Date: 10 Feb 18 - 02:00 PM
I am intrigued, Iains. My wife left work at 60 but does not draw any pension or have any other source of income until she is 67. Do you insist she should not have the vote?

I think your wife should re-check this.
Taking your comment at face value, and giving her the youngest possibility (60th birthday yesterday) her state pension would be due at age 66. If she's any older than 60 years and one day it may be even earlier.
The calculation tool is Here

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 10 Feb 18 - 05:27 PM

Thanks for that Nigel. The mistake was mine, and it is indeed 66 she is entitled to the pension.

Still not sure if Iains thinks she should be entitled to vote, though.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 10 Feb 18 - 05:31 PM

From: Steve Shaw - PM
Date: 10 Feb 18 - 10:03 AM
There will be no meaningful vote in parliament as party lines will be followed by almost everybody. It will be no more meaningful than the vote to hold a referendum or the vote to invoke Article 50, in both of which hundreds of MPs voted contrary to what they knew to be in the country's best interests for fear of turning their own parties and own careers into toast.

Stated as 'fact', but presumably you mean what you believe to be in the country's best interest.
Maybe the majority of those who voted actually had the country's best interest in mind.

And remember that 'party lines' (for both Conservative & Labour) prior to the referendum were to remain as part of the EU. They have only changed as a result of the vote to leave.