BS: Post Brexit life in the UK

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 01 Jul 18 - 04:07 PM

" But I would rather that my tax money went to poor people in Poland than to subsidising the UK military."

Good job we were not thinking along those lines in the late thirties, where incidentally our money did go to support Poland. We went to war on their behalf. And a jolly good job it went to the military before that. If Pacifism ruled OK we would all be goose stepping.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 01 Jul 18 - 04:04 PM

Of course we benefited financially. ERDF, ESF, Framework I - VII, Horizon2020, an endless list. All of great benefit to the UK, and things that no UK government would ever replicate.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Stanron
Date: 01 Jul 18 - 03:56 PM

Dave the Gnome wrote: Would you care to substantiate that Stanron? My understanding is that we benefited financially as well as culturally. I am happy to be proved wrong but only with facts. Not opinions.

This has to be hoops.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 01 Jul 18 - 03:47 PM

It is interesting to note that:

So, you believe we give money to the EU and get nothing back in return?


Is being interpreted as 'and get no direct money in return'.   Indirect monitory benefits - like contracts won as a result of membership - are ignored. Non-monetary benefits, like reduced unfair competition - which is what many ECJ cases are about - are ignored.

A point of view, of course, and you are entitled to it. It is not mine.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 01 Jul 18 - 03:37 PM

All the money that my village receives from the UK government is a smaller amount than my village sends to the UK government. Quite reasonably so as my village is more prosperous than the average UK region. Likewise a more region such as Britain might expect to send more to the EU than it receives if it is on average more prosperous than the average EU region. But I would rather that my tax money went to poor people in Poland than to subsidising the UK military.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 01 Jul 18 - 03:35 PM

"So, you believe we give money to the EU and get nothing back in return?

Why would anyone do that? "

You could not make it up, could you?


https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/governmentpublicsectorandtaxes/publicsectorfinance/articles/theukcontributiontotheeubudget/2017-1

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Jul 18 - 03:24 PM

all the money that came from the EU was a smaller amount than that which the UK sent to the EU.

Would you care to substantiate that Stanron? My understanding is that we benefited financially as well as culturally. I am happy to be proved wrong but only with facts. Not opinions.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 01 Jul 18 - 03:24 PM

I suspect the remainiacs are taking maths lessons from Diane Abbot.
What else accounts for their confusion. In 2017 the UK net contribution to the EU is estimated to be £8.6 billion

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Stanron
Date: 01 Jul 18 - 03:08 PM

David, all the money that came from the EU was a smaller amount than that which the UK sent to the EU. None of the richer parts of the EU contributed money to the UK. There are some very rich parts of Germany, Italy, France and Spain. None of their money has come to the UK. None. All the money that came to the UK originated in the UK. Your political beliefs are your affair but the only money that came to the UK came from the UK in the first place.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 01 Jul 18 - 02:58 PM

Can someone please tell me I, as a 'common working man' will benefit from our leaving the EU.

If someone could do that I may sign up to it.

So far every report I have seen has indicated that I 'as a common working man' will be worse off.

My own personal experience has clearly indicated that I an worse off. I know what I used to spend and I know what those same things cost me today.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 01 Jul 18 - 02:52 PM

The rich parts of the EU contribute to the poorer parts of the EU. Many of the poorer parts of the UK have benefited greatly from EU structural funds, including the European Regional Development Fund and the European Social Fund. Merseyside is one, and it has been transformed since the days of the Boys from the Blackstuff. And if you think that any UK government would have put the resources into Merseyside that the EU did, you are having a laugh.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Stanron
Date: 01 Jul 18 - 02:40 PM

Oh boy. I do enjoy a good laugh.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 01 Jul 18 - 02:38 PM

So, you believe we give money to the EU and get nothing back in return?
Why would anyone do that?

Good question, so if we pay in more than we get out we should choose to leave, yes?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Jul 18 - 02:32 PM

So, you believe we give money to the EU and get nothing back in return?

Why would anyone do that?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 01 Jul 18 - 02:30 PM

Yes, the EU's accounts have been 'signed off', but not as being accurate.
For a view other than that of the BBC see FullFact.org

Auditors say the accounts have been accurate since 2007. But they have historically recorded significant errors in how money is paid since their first audit in 1995. In the most recent year, they found a significant part of the EU’s spending was largely error-free for the first time.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Stanron
Date: 01 Jul 18 - 02:28 PM

Silly me. I thought it was simple.

We give money to the EU because we are rich and they, or part of they, are poor. But there is a significant part of the UK that is also poor. When we give our money to the EU we deprive the poorer parts of our society of that money. Of course at the same time there are parts of the EU that are very rich.

No surprise that the rich parts of the EU do not contribute to the poor parts of the UK.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Jul 18 - 02:21 PM

Not on my part either. I am genuinely looking for something to look forward to. To date no one has provided anything!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 01 Jul 18 - 02:20 PM

What a load of bollocks. The EU has been the source of our prosperity, and of many, many opportunities for our young people. It has enriched our lives and our culture. Outside it, Britain will be a poorer place in any sense.

The EU will power on. Britain will fall by the wayside. Our young, educated people will vote with their feet.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 01 Jul 18 - 02:13 PM

Not on my part, Stanron. It was a serious enquiry but if you think it hoopish, please do not answer.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Stanron
Date: 01 Jul 18 - 02:07 PM

Do I detect hoops?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Jul 18 - 01:58 PM

This is the problem, Stanron. We all know we pay the EU. Some, however, believe we get good value for money. All the economic analyses confirm that. Once out of the club we have not been shown what will be better. You are optimistic that it will be. Share with us what creates that optimism. Give us a decent study that shows us how much better off we will be.

Pound to a penny you can't find one.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 01 Jul 18 - 01:55 PM

Fair enough, Stanron. Now the other question I asked: what is your stance if the agreed position is not that?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Stanron
Date: 01 Jul 18 - 01:50 PM

I'd be perfectly happy with a hard exit. We stop p[aying them millions or billions of our hard taxed money and they stop telling us what to do. What's to loose. Don't forget business works both ways. We both buy, we both sell. Don't forget, the EU wants, and needs, our money. So far they are not offering us anything for it.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 01 Jul 18 - 01:36 PM

Reality Check: Has the EU had its accounts signed off?


The EU has plenty of flaws, and I agree if they had been more willing to adapt it is possible Brexit would never have happened. Possible, not not, I think, likely.


But let us agree that the EU has lots of problems. That does not mean in itself leaving it will be better for us.

By the weekend, the cabinet will either fail to agree, produce fudge which the EU will probably not accept, or finally decide whether it is going for a soft or hard Brexit. Quite possibly, but not certainly, there will be some resignations. I would guess the "big beasts" will not resign, but the more ambitious lower ranks might.

I imagine not all of these will overcome what you see as the problems of the EU membership. What outcomes are acceptable to you? And more importantly, perhaps, what is your stance if the decision is one of the options you did not want?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Stanron
Date: 01 Jul 18 - 01:16 PM

Oh yes, one other point, The EU is a gravy train.

Why do you think Tony Blair is so keen to keep us in the EU?

Tony was almost certain to be a President or something equally well funded if the UK had stayed in the EU. Now we are out he has no chance of picking up the benefits and perks. Of course he wants to change the referendum outcome. He's not got enough millions yet.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Stanron
Date: 01 Jul 18 - 12:49 PM

The EU is corrupt. It has failed to present accounts for goodness knows how long.
The EU is incompetent. Had the EU offered any kind of effective reform before the referendum we may not have voted to leave.
The EU is dishonest. When we last voted in the 70s it was about remaining in or leaving an economic community. The plan for political union existed then but was hidden. This was dishonest.
The EU is undemocratic. We were never allowed to vote on stuff they reckoned we would reject. We cannot elect any of the people who originate policy.
The EU is a train wreck in the process of happening.

We are seriously well off outside of it.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Jul 18 - 12:33 PM

I, and I would suggest many others, are at a loss to see how the UK as a nation will benefit from the move.

It was all laid out in the Leave campaign two years ago, just as all the reasons for staying were by Remain.
Remain lost.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 01 Jul 18 - 11:56 AM

Iains, could I suggest that instead of attacking individual posters your response should be to inform us of how Brexit will better the UK.

I, and I would suggest many others, are at a loss to see how the UK as a nation will benefit from the move.

We have had countless reports in the media that are negative, we have had scores of Government reports suppressed, even the small amount of those that have been disclosed have been negative.

So just where is the source of your optimism?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Jul 18 - 06:06 AM

New cloud on the horizon for Brexit
Having already fired the opening shots in a Trade War with aluminium tariffs, Trump is now honing in on Nato and the E.U. with a probable extension of that conflict
In order to do so, he is apparently attempt to form an alliance with Hungary's fascist Orbán, North Korea's Kim Jong-un, Israel's Benny the Bolt Netanyahu... and any rag-bag neo-fascist he can win over.
According to The Times, he has formed an obsession for domineering extreme leaders.
Britain, with its growing unstable political position and its lack of a major industry whose products anybody wants, its quite likely to be a victim of this trade war rather than a beneficiary.

An interesting spin-off of Trump's Twattism is the likelihood of a left-wing leadership led by what is described as 'a Mexican Corbyn' and a Socialist woman challenger for the Governorship of California
Interesting times
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 01 Jul 18 - 05:15 AM

Have the mudrats run out of sensible contributions? How many more need to gather before the collective term plague can be applied?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 01 Jul 18 - 04:42 AM

Thanks, Nigel

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 01 Jul 18 - 04:37 AM

Surge in number of British obtaining EU citizenship

Just in case anyone had trouble finding it. The previous link led to the front page, rather than the article.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Jul 18 - 04:12 AM

That is just the type of thing I was referring to, Jim. I suspect some kind of disorder so he should probably be pitied rather than scorned but I think most people have had enough. Trouble is he doesn't even seem to understand the difference between being talked about and talked to. Sad really.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Jun 18 - 07:12 PM

"Shall I send you a dictionary gnomie, or is it merely a senior moment?"
You can't restrain your cowardly anonymous personal abuse, can you ?
I bet your family would really be proud of you if they learned you were a cyber-stalker operating from the shadows

Personally, I think people are daft even to respond to you - you offer nothing intelligent, you are permanently defensively nasty... - why bother feeding a troll lads?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 30 Jun 18 - 05:59 PM

"Like I said earlier Iains, "righteous indignation" I believe on your part."

For once we agree!

Definition of righteous - morally right or justifiable, OED

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 30 Jun 18 - 04:45 PM

"Dave the Gnome - PM
Date: 28 Jun 18 - 02:37 PM

I am becoming more and more of the opinion that Iains should be ignored as completely as Keith"
In the light of your response above, Shall I send you a dictionary gnomie, or is it merely a senior moment?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Jun 18 - 02:37 PM

It is quite amazing that anyone prepared to use terms mocking those with learning difficulties feign indignation at anything at all but I suppose it should be no surprise.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 30 Jun 18 - 02:30 PM

Like I said earlier Iains, "righteous indignation" I believe on your part.

The cartoon was an indication of the stupid voyage that the UK has embarked upon, I and I would suggest a vast majority of people saw it a such.

Apart from that do you have any good news to relate to us about Brexit?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 30 Jun 18 - 01:57 PM

You play with words here. The cartoonist makes a mockery of death. Yet the leftards say nowt. Quelle surprise!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 30 Jun 18 - 01:43 PM

Isn't it so reassuring to know that our Government who are charged with the responsibility of negotiating our departure from the EU are of one accord.

Anyone got any good news about Brexit yet?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 30 Jun 18 - 01:31 PM

Temper!

Apparently "The Sun" reported this first.
I wonder if he might be among those rumoured to be thinking of leaving after the Chequers meeting.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 30 Jun 18 - 12:29 PM

Do I detect some misplaced righteous indignation.

I saw Teresa May, the leader, taking her shipmates on a voyage that was ineveitably bound to end in disaster.

I wonder if any of the objectors noticed the fascist salutes that were being given by some of the shore party.

I doubt it for some reason.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Jun 18 - 12:22 PM

A match made in heaven. Or hell?

:D

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Jun 18 - 12:07 PM

"A tipple too many jimmy?"
I just thought you should know that everybody has noticied your little weakness
Never mind - you've still got Keith
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 30 Jun 18 - 11:45 AM

"Meanwhile back on planet earth "
A tipple too many jimmy?

Further to the cartoon in the Guardian of a lifeboat adrift on a stormy sea. By June 2017 more than 2000 migrants had drowned in the Mediterranean Sea.
Had the Daily Mail printed such a cartoon, the squeals from the left would have been overwhelming. The Guardian should issue an apology forthwith. The cartoon is a disgrace and the person/s responsible for it's printing should be fired.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Jun 18 - 11:42 AM

Hoops!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Jun 18 - 11:34 AM

DMcG,
Surge in people obtaining EU citizenship

That is a completely understandable reaction by UK citizens.
UK has absolutely guaranteed the rights of EU citizens resident in UK, but EU has refused to reciprocate with any such reassurance to UK citizens in EU states.

I think we have the moral high ground on this one.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Jun 18 - 11:03 AM

Dave,
I am becoming more and more of the opinion that Iains should be ignored as completely as Keith. He does have his lucid moments but the ridiculous amount of invective used makes him just as difficult to communicate with. Shame really but we now know it is the only way.

Looks like DMcG is ignoring you on that as he should have done on your ludicrous Bloomberg thing. (Remember their report that would have been Brexit story of the week if it had any substance to it?)

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Jun 18 - 10:52 AM

"Meanwhile back on planet earth "
Your hardly merited arrogance gets a little tiresome Iains - it's long since it was entertaining
You sneer at information you are given, you ignore what others say, your appear to have placed yourself on an imaginary pedestal from which you look down and sneer at everything around you
You never attempt to debate with anybody
Your own "information" is drawn from the worst examples that narrow minded and bigoted Little Britain has to offer
Why are you here unless it is not a peacock display drawn from your own imagination?
Do you really think as highly of yourself as you appear to?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 30 Jun 18 - 09:21 AM

Pretty obvious it was a comment I would have thought. Such controversial ideas would never pass the editorial censors of the gruniard.