BS: Post Brexit life in the UK

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Jan 18 - 06:37 AM

Nobody's "keeping quiet" about the lies told by the leave side, in particular the lies told by the disreputable ex-Chancellor. The remainers here have frequently referred to the shambolic and dishonest campaigning on both sides. But, as the leave side held sway, it's their promises that we have to hold to account now. They are the ones that affect us.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Jan 18 - 06:31 AM

Everything going pear-shaped in the forthcoming negotiations could be the game-changer. We may not need another referendum in order to prevent this impending disaster. I'm convinced in any case that another referendum would give the same result, as millions of voters would be persuaded, wrongly, that calling it was an affront to democracy. That would be an extremely easy case to make by leavers, much easier than the case the remain side would be able to make. I can just see the sloganising now. In fact, I think I'll put myself up for the job of slogan-writer for the leave side. Money for old rope.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 14 Jan 18 - 06:25 AM

"I must compliment you on the choice of advertising slogans though. They were all misleading and none of them would be allowed today"

Not entirely true!

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jul/06/advertising-standards-authority-political-advertisements

I notice you all keepvery quiet about the following though:
"The Treasury?s mailshot claiming UK families would be ?4,300 a year worse off if Britain left the EU"    Tsk, Tsk!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 14 Jan 18 - 06:22 AM

I doubt if another referendum will be held, I think it would be considered political suicide for a leader of the two major parties to suggest such.

However I hope to be proved wrong on this one.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 14 Jan 18 - 06:15 AM

Raggytash. I said many months ago the EU is on a path of creeping federalism. I would want no part of it.

I have also said I would have preferred to argue for change within the EU

I have also said here that I have my doubts as to whether Brexit will occur.
We shall see!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Jan 18 - 06:09 AM

You can buy eggs, petrol, Mars bars and Strand fags. Advertising, you see. These days, if an ad promises undeliverable things, the company gets punished. You are not allowed to say that Mars bars will make you big and strong or that Esso petrol will make your car go twice as fast. If you want to see your bus slogan as an ad in that same vein, then its perpetrators should be punished. The £350 million could never have been delivered in any case, as that sum was based on a gross figure. The real net figure was around half that sum, a fact concealed by the dishonesty of the leave campaign, but, even so, it was still undeliverable as other economic consequences of brexit (as we've seen) would have prevented it. Of course you can advertise with slogans, but in the case of the bus message it was an attempt by lying slogan to sucker people into voting brexit. You may try and defend it, but, but any reasonable measure, it was indefensible right from the outset.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 14 Jan 18 - 05:47 AM

"Raggytash. As my familiarity with scrying and divination is somewhat limited, and my belief in it even more limited, then I am afraid we will have to wait for days of future past before I can pass judgement on the efficasy of Brexit. We appear to have a problem with promises concerning future possible outcomees already on this thread. I would be loath to contribute to further confusion."

So you voted to leave the EU, without knowing what possible benefits could arise, without an inkling of the damage it could do, without knowing sfa about the future. Just how did you justify your vote.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Jan 18 - 04:58 AM

Iains. Why is leaving the EU a positive outcome in itself then?

I must compliment you on the choice of advertising slogans though. They were all misleading and none of them would be allowed today. They demonstrate perfectly how misleading the 350 million one was as well. If there is one single thing you could have done to show what a lie the leave campaign was, that was it. Thank you.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 14 Jan 18 - 04:40 AM

We leave the EU.

That may be your opinion, Iains, but I am sure you would acknowledge not everyone agrees. Answering the questions the Scottish Government raised and I repeated would be a better answer. To begin how about explaining what the phrase means by addressing it beggars belief that the UK government is not only still unable to say what kind of relationship it wants with the EU.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 14 Jan 18 - 04:20 AM

For Steve: Slogans , Advertising:

Go to work on an egg
The esso sign means happy motoring
A mars a day helps you work, rest and play
You are never alone with a strand
Need I go on???????????

When you have successfully demonstrated going to work on an egg, come back and argue some more!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 14 Jan 18 - 04:14 AM

We leave the EU.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Jan 18 - 03:38 AM

Can anyone come up with any positive outcomes that may happen when we leave the EU then?

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 14 Jan 18 - 03:21 AM

SNP still very unhappy

Ms Sturgeon said that so-called hard Brexiteers had failed to show how their approach would compensate for the loss of access to European markets.

She said: "More than 18 months on from the Brexit vote, it beggars belief that the UK government is not only still unable to say what kind of relationship it wants with the EU, but has also failed to produce any meaningful economic assessment of the different possibilities."

Ms Sturgeon added: "There is zero credible evidence to suggest leaving the single market will bring any benefit to our economy. Indeed, as our analysis will show - the harder the Brexit the worse will be the outcome."


A golden chance to prove her wrong here, folks. Just show the credible analyses requested.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Jan 18 - 07:59 PM

No, YOU are reduced to defending the reneging on a blatantly obvious assurance that the NHS was going to get £350 million a week after brexit. Still think it will? Huh? Isn't that the bottom line?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 13 Jan 18 - 06:04 PM

"It was not an advert on the side of a bus. It was a slogan on the side of a bus.2


Not much point in having a slogan if you do not advertise it. Are we reduced to arguing semantics now?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 13 Jan 18 - 05:24 PM

Raggytash. As my familiarity with scrying and divination is somewhat limited, and my belief in it even more limited, then I am afraid we will have to wait for days of future past before I can pass judgement on the efficasy of Brexit.
We appear to have a problem with promises concerning future possible outcomees already on this thread. I would be loath to contribute to
further confusion.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Jan 18 - 05:10 PM

It was not an advert on the side of a bus. It was a slogan on the side of a bus. I don't care which bloody parties were involved. It wasn't put on the bus by a party. It was put on the bus by the Leave campaign, or at least one of that motley collection of leave factions anyway. Comment is free but facts are sacred. And straws are for chewing by besmocked yokels leaning on gates, not for clutching at. Ooarrr.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 13 Jan 18 - 04:54 PM

That Gisela Stuart was chair of the "Vote Leave" campaign should not come as a surprise to anyone. She was in at least one of the major televised debates before the vote.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 13 Jan 18 - 04:47 PM

Iains, can you demonstrate us anything positive outcome to come from the decision for the UK to leave the EU.

Anything at all?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Jan 18 - 04:45 PM

I would expect an advert on the side of a bus to live up to its promise. Isn't that what advertising standards are all about? FWIW, darling of the brexit campaign and all round slimey toad himself agreed it was a pledge and disowned it within an hour of the referendum result.

"No I can?t [guarantee it], and I would never have made that claim. That was one of the mistakes that I think the Leave campaign made," he said.

When it was pointed out that Vote Leave emblazoned the ?350 million claim onto the side of a tour bus and drove it around the country, Mr Farage said: ?It wasn?t one of my adverts " I can assure you! I think they made a mistake in doing that. "

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 13 Jan 18 - 04:40 PM

For some obscure reason my link above vanished somewhere into cyberspace. I had no idea the slogan came from the cross party leave campaign until I started looking up a response to Steve's post. I had automatically accepted it was a jolly jape from the Conservatives. So everyone else can share this rather important knowledge I will attempt the link again as the provenance of slogan is obviously cross party.
This puts a rather different slant on the perpetual sniping.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vote_Leave

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 13 Jan 18 - 04:00 PM

It's strange that you should mention Gisela Stuart this is the exact words she said in relation to the slogan on the Brexit Bus:

"We should give our struggling NHS the £350m we send to the EU every week"

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 13 Jan 18 - 03:51 PM

""Possibility"? It was presented to us as a promise. And that's a fact. I saw it on the side of a bloody huge great big bus."

It is carefully overlooked that the wheels on the bus went round and round due to the actions of the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vote_Leave
Campaign which had cross party support if you study the makeup.
The actual wording on the bus was: We send the EU 350million a week.
Let's fund our NHS instead.
Diane Abbotwas convinced it was Nigel Farage that was responsible butshe appears confused on many issue , does she not.
When the new PM was in power the slogan was promptly dropped.

You may regard it as a promise supported by both conservative and labour, but I would regard it as stating a possible option.
The side of a bus is often used to advertise. Do you regard all their spiel as promises?

It is note worthy that the chair(person) of the leave campaign responsible for the slogan was Gisela Stuart, Labour MP for Birmingham Edgbaston

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Jan 18 - 03:02 PM

"I believe Nigel Parsons answered the question above more than adequately. If you did not understand the first time what is likely to change the second time, or sequentially after that?

I know it is said that given long enough a monkey could tap out the bible, but in your case..................."

No, Teribus, he didn't. He was discussing last week's kerfuffle when Farridge appeared to back another referendum, but then about-turned at a rate of knots that The Praying Mantis, May, would be proud of.

I'm asking about his comment before the June 2016 Referendum, and widely reported at that time, that a narrow win for Remain would mean that there was 'unfinished business', and that he would push for a re-run.

You know this perfectly well, even though you're wriggling to avoid answering as usual.

And the insults you're so fond of throwing do nothing to enhance your arguments, they just confirm what the majority here already know about you...

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Jan 18 - 02:53 PM

"Possibility"? It was presented to us as a promise. And that's a fact. I saw it on the side of a bloody huge great big bus.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Greg F.
Date: 13 Jan 18 - 11:12 AM

Brex-Shit very stable geniuses interrupt Sadiq Khan:

Click Here

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 13 Jan 18 - 11:03 AM

"we're getting £350 million a week for the NHS "
No. This is about a future event presented as a possibility.
As the good book says: It has to come to pass before it can be considered a reality.

Facts can be Ooooh so awkward for those that cannot see the light!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Jan 18 - 10:59 AM

What do you mean, welcome to reality, Iains? I have been saying the same of all politicians since I was old enough to listen to them for longer than 30 seconds. I always hoped that some would prove me wrong and there have been a few, from both sides of the house, in the past. The current shower of shits could not be strait if you strapped spirit levels to them. I have hopes for Corbyn but he is not yet in power and seems to have tied his colours to the brexit mast. Early days for him yet.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Jan 18 - 08:14 AM

John Adams was a puritanical racist who vacillated disgracefully on the matter of slavery (kudos to the man for not actually buying slaves himself). I prefer CP Scott's take on facts meself, namely that comment is free but facts are sacred. Of course, Guardian-despising, Mail-loving brexiteers may demur. Gosh, they should know all about facts, after all, we're getting £350 million a week for the NHS and High Court judges are the enemies of the people....


And the Guardian is a tabloid from Monday. Wheeee!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 13 Jan 18 - 07:27 AM

Dave. Welcome to reality! Your description is of course a blanket to include most if not all politicians. It could almost be regarded as a prerequisite for the "job".

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Jan 18 - 06:33 AM

Neither Nigel has adequately explained why Farage was not true to his word when he said there should be a second referendum if the leave vote was not more than 2/3rds.

There could be unstoppable demand for a re-run of the EU referendum if Remain wins by a narrow margin on 23 June, UKIP leader Nigel Farage has said.
...
The question of a second referendum was raised by Mr Farage in an interview with the Mirror in which he said: "In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the Remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it." (BBC News 17 May 2016)

Of course it could be explained by the fact that he is a lying manipulative little shit.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 13 Jan 18 - 06:12 AM

I believe Nigel Parsons answered the question above more than adequately. If you did not understand the first time what is likely to change the second time, or sequentially after that?

I know it is said that given long enough a monkey could tap out the bible, but in your case...................

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Jan 18 - 05:46 AM

So, what do you have to say about Farridge's statement, immediately prior to the referendum, that if there was a close result in favour of 'Remain', he would demand a re-run?

Never mind the Righty-bollocks, answer the bloody question, Teribus.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 13 Jan 18 - 05:11 AM

Another one that cannot differentiate between fact and fantasy. A leftard failing unfortunately. This is why most of what they post is unstructured rant. Some cannot even construct links. I suspect this is merely a subterfuge enabling outrageous statements to be made without facts to support.


"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."
John Adams

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Jan 18 - 03:30 AM

You were gullible enough to fall for the BrexShit-BullShit, anyone that feeble-minded would be perfectly likely to believe in unicorns.

No comment regarding Farridge's statement that, if there was a close 'Remain' majority, he'd kick-off for a second referendum then? Sauce for the goose...

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 12 Jan 18 - 06:12 PM

What on? The unicorns?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Jan 18 - 06:03 PM

Do try to focus.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 12 Jan 18 - 05:58 PM

Someone other than remoaners is getting very worried about the implications of hard brexit.
For those that might like to squeak about the date of the article there is a tv program on Monday in Ireland about the same subject, so they can reconcile past and future. And for those that like to disparage the newspaper printing the article I should emphasize that it is an EU report being quoted.

This is a fine example of the EU attempts to be hardass having negative impacts upon their own. (Cutting off the nose to spite the face springs to mind, or for the EU farming lobby: don't bite the hand that feeds you)

https://www.independent.ie/business/brexit/hard-brexit-would-cost-irish-agriculture-55bn-stark-eu-report-predicts-36262933.html

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 12 Jan 18 - 01:27 PM

"But not to worry, the unicorns will be here soon..."

Oh Dear. More fantasy from the remoaners!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Jan 18 - 01:23 PM

Stayed?? STATED! ??

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Jan 18 - 11:47 AM

"It would require far more than another brexit vote to stop the remoaners whining. Their screeching, whining, wailing and moaning has carried on apace since the referendum results shattered their every illusion. What a bunch of losers!"

And, Teribus, had the majority been exactly the reverse - 51% 'Remain', 49% 'Leave', it would have been you and your bunch who would have been screeching, whining, wailing and moaning - your haddock-faced hero, Farridge, stayed before the vote that, if it was a close 'Remain' majority, three or four percent, he would demand another vote.

But not to worry, the unicorns will be here soon...

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Jan 18 - 09:39 AM

I have posted it before but, once again, the best brexit song ever.

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Jan 18 - 09:01 AM

"So first he said that he was on the brink of supporting a second referendum (a different matter from proposing one)."
Really?
Basically, he is saying the same thing - the Times quoted him as saying that a second vote would confirm a majority in favour of leaving
It sounds to me that he has realised hi gaffe and hastily extracted his foot from his mouth - one of the job descriptions of being a politician in today's Britain
Who gives a toss anyway - the man is a racit moron who would fir perfectly into racist Trump's inner circle - a PERSONAL AMBITION , no doubt
The lady from BRITAIN FIRST is about to be put of trial for incitement to race hatred and has appealed to Trump to save her from going to jail
What a ****** sordid bunch - I hope you are taking a long spoon to that particular dinner party Nigel
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 12 Jan 18 - 08:49 AM

It would require far more than another brexit vote to stop the remoaners whining. Their screeching, whining, wailing and moaning has carried on apace since the referendum results shattered their every illusion. What a bunch of losers!


We didn't vote for Brexit

and for the illustrious winners:

Leaving

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 12 Jan 18 - 08:13 AM

Brexit good news !!!!

Good News !!










Well it's hopeful news for Ireland at least !!!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 12 Jan 18 - 08:13 AM

I've read the Times reports (online)
One day they say: Nigel Farage on verge of backing second Brexit vote to stop Remainers 'whining'
The former party leader, who is still an MEP and leads the Ukip bloc in the European parliament, said today that he was on the brink of backing another vote to 'kill off' the Remain campaign for a generation.

He said that Europhile campaigners such as Tony Blair, Sir Nick Clegg and the Labour peer Lord Adonis would not stop 'whinging and whining' throughout Brexit negotiations and indicated he was coming around to the idea that a second vote would settle the issue.

Next day they say: Nigel Farage climbs down after backing second Brexit referendum
The former Ukip leader, who leads the party's bloc in the European parliament, had said he was close to supporting another vote to 'kill off' the Remain campaign for a generation.

However, hours after suggesting that a second vote would put an end to 'whinging and whining' by opponents of Brexit, he stressed: "I do not want a second referendum."

So first he said that he was on the brink of supporting a second referendum (a different matter from proposing one).
Then he clarified that he does not want a referendum, but that Brexit supporters need to be ready because it may still be forced on us anyway.

Nowhere (that I can see) does the Times claim, as you said: Nigel the Farrago has done a screeching U-turn and is now advocating a second Brexit referendum

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Jan 18 - 07:44 AM

"I think you may be going on the headlines again, rather than on what was actually said."
Just read the Times report Nigel
You might be able to tell me something different
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 12 Jan 18 - 07:38 AM

Nigel the Farrago has done a screeching U-turn and is now advocating a second Brexit referendum

Really?
I think you may be going on the headlines again, rather than on what was actually said.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Jan 18 - 06:59 AM

I prefer Nigel Fartarse myself. It better describes his sounding off and suits my childish sense of humour :-)

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Jan 18 - 06:35 AM

"The Telegraph is not "connected" to any political party."
The Telgraph had always been the mouthpiece of the Conservative Party and has bee recognised as such
The Mirror was once an open supporter of the Labour Party
Enough of this banter
Nigel the Farrago has done a screeching U-turn and is now advocating a second Brexit referendum
Jim Carroll