BS: Post Brexit life in the UK

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Nov 17 - 07:28 AM

You're right, John (you always are, as I told Keef yesterday). As you can see from the timings, I posted too soon to take your sage advice.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 28 Nov 17 - 07:30 AM

A lot of the stuff poated recently seems to losing sight of of what is happening now to Brexit. Anyone care to comment on whether they think there is substance to the rumour reported by the BBC that some of the impact papers are being held back because they are "embarrassingly thin'?1

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 28 Nov 17 - 07:44 AM

From The Guardian
David Davis has been told he could be in contempt of parliament after his department heavily edited government analyses on the impact of Brexit on 58 industrial sectors before handing them to a select committee.

Opposition MPs accused the Brexit secretary of leaving out "politically embarrassing" information after he refused to include anything deemed to be market sensitive or that he said could damage the UK's negotiations with the EU27.

Davis said he was withholding the information because he had "received no assurances from the [Brexit] committee regarding how any information passed will be used". But that triggered a furious reaction from MPs on the Brexit select committee who were supposed to be handed over the reports after a unanimous and binding vote of MPs. One option, they said, is to trigger contempt proceedings against the cabinet minister.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 28 Nov 17 - 07:48 AM

I made that last post as a straight quote, with no comment.
Doubtless people will view it in different ways.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Nov 17 - 07:56 AM

We need to know, and have the right to know, the bad things that experts are predicting. We don't pay these bastards to keep embarrassing information from us. Let's take back control!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 28 Nov 17 - 08:04 AM

You can, of course, read the whole debate in Hansard as usual. My reading of the motion is that Davis and co are not entitled to redact anything but the select committee on reciept of the whole will decide what should and what should not be redacted.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Stu
Date: 28 Nov 17 - 08:25 AM

"Like the snowflakes on the Trump thread!"

Very poor. Utterly lacking wit (or wits, one supposes). Cue: Standards are slipping. Barrels are being scraped. etc etc We deserve a better quality of argumentative right winger on this forum rather than a prosaic brownshirt dullard like this.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Nov 17 - 09:08 AM

Anyone care to comment on whether they think there is substance to the rumour

Who knows? Not me anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 28 Nov 17 - 09:25 AM

Quite right, Keith, none of us know.

Perhaps I should have asked whether people thought it plausible some documents are withheld because they are so thin as Laura K's unnamed source claimed.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Nov 17 - 09:36 AM

"Like the snowflakes on the Trump thread!"

Anyone using the term "snowflakes" is ipso facto an idiot. Move along, nothing to see here.....

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Nov 17 - 09:57 AM

"An event has to come to pass before outcomes can be known."
The immediate effect of Brexit was a sharp rise in racist incidents - didn't have to ask my cat, it was a reported fact
Since then, things have gone from bad to worse, with a destabilised economy and predictions that things will not steady up for at lesst a decade.
The General election fiasco led to the Government of the day having to do a deal with a political party with terrorist connections and bung them £1 billion of the taxpayers money in order to give them a workable majority.
THe PEACE PROCESS has been put on hold and concerns about the border and the NI economy have destabilized the Six Counties
Those are the immediate effects - those that might happen don't bear thinking about
Most of this information is freely available without anybody having to cut their cat up.
Now - without the usual attempts to bullshit and talk down - which of these do you have problems with?
I haven't bothered listing the pluses like the factt that Brexit has exposed our glorious leaders as the clowns they really are
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 28 Nov 17 - 10:00 AM

From: Steve Shaw - PM
Date: 28 Nov 17 - 07:56 AM
We need to know, and have the right to know, the bad things that experts are predicting. We don't pay these bastards to keep embarrassing information from us. Let's take back control!

I don't think there was ever the intention of giving you the details. Parliament may have a 'right to know'.
David Davis does not even seem to trust the Brexit Committee:

Davis said he was withholding the information because he had "received no assurances from the [Brexit] committee regarding how any information passed will be used".

Of course, if the Committee had given assurances that the details wouldn't be shared with the media, or with the EU, maybe they'd have got the full details.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 28 Nov 17 - 10:48 AM

"Just say what you think"

Absolutely bloody priceless coming from the man who invariably claims that he didn't say it, it was somebody else.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 28 Nov 17 - 11:47 AM

"We deserve a better quality of argumentative right winger on this forum rather than a prosaic brownshirt dullard like this."

You deserve nothing.
You lost.
REMEMBER?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Nov 17 - 12:25 PM

the man who invariably claims that he didn't say it,

I have said that, but only when it was true.
I had quoted someone giving the quote and the link.

Everything I have said here is from me, so what is your point Rag?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Nov 17 - 12:36 PM

"You deserve nothing.
You lost.
REMEMBER?"

Haha, the cruisin' for a bruisin' brainless hubris-stricken brexiteer mantra! We are still here, us forty-eight percenters, pal. We "deserve" precisely the same as you. That includes you not forgetting that we live in a democracy and not trying to sideline us. Therein lies the path to totalitarianism. Brownshirt? Hmmm...

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 28 Nov 17 - 12:55 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvfU59Kj8RQ

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Nov 17 - 01:21 PM

"You lost.REMEMBER?"
Yup - how can anybbody win against such POWERFUL ERUDITION
Can I presume you are not going to respond to my answer to your equally mindless "cat's entrails comment?
Didn't think your erudition stretched that far - not for a minute
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 28 Nov 17 - 02:04 PM

Although it sometimes feels I am running a one man campaign to promote "Hansard" todays do make interesting reading and I would suggest anyone commenting without reading it could be on shaky grounds.

There at least three separate processes under way trying determine what happens next and the likely winner is far from clear at this time.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 28 Nov 17 - 03:36 PM

As mad as a hatter! Must be a remainder/remoaner.
Congratulations to Guido for unmasking this nutty professor.

Our Vietnam????

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Nov 17 - 05:08 PM

He mirrors the professor, resorts to the extreme right-wing Guido Fawkes - then calls a perfectly sane academic "barking mad." It's been a day of irony on this thread!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Nov 17 - 05:10 PM

Sorry, not "barking mad." "As mad as a hatter." Same difference!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Nov 17 - 06:31 PM

Yeah, but at least the hatter has an excuse- mercury poisoning. What's HIS excuse?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: bobad
Date: 28 Nov 17 - 06:36 PM

What's yours?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Nov 17 - 06:53 PM

A pint of Doom, since you're asking..

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Nov 17 - 04:52 AM

He mirrors the professor, resorts to the extreme right-wing Guido Fawkes

If you are claiming that I have ever used far right sources, you lie.
All your attacks on me are lies.
Why do you need to do it Steve?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Nov 17 - 05:08 AM

Did you not notice who the right wing tosser writing the article in the link was having a go at, Keith?

Conor Gearty, professor of human rights law at the London School of Economics

Not everything is about you and there are some real professors out there!

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Nov 17 - 05:12 AM

Guido Fawkes is not an "extreme Right Wing site" anyway.

Wiki,
In 2005, Staines's blog was voted the best in the Political Commentary category of The Backbencher Political Weblog Awards, run by The Guardian.

He was named at number 36 in the "Top 50 newsmakers of 2006" in The Independent,[37] for his blog, and his role in the Prescott scandal in particular. In 2011 GQ ranked him and co-author Harry Cole jointly at number 28 in the magazine's list of the 100 Most Influential Men in Britain

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Nov 17 - 05:15 AM

everything is about you

When it is directed at "the professor" it is, and if you actually read Steve properly he was not referring to "Conor Gearty, professor of human rights law at the London School of Economics."

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Nov 17 - 05:32 AM

"Guido Fawkes is not an "extreme Right Wing site" anyway.

Wiki,
In 2005, Staines's blog was voted the best in the Political Commentary category of The Backbencher Political Weblog Awards, run by The Guardian.

He was named at number 36 in the "Top 50 newsmakers of 2006" in The Independent,[37] for his blog, and his role in the Prescott scandal in particular. In 2011 GQ ranked him and co-author Harry Cole jointly at number 28 in the magazine's list of the 100 Most Influential Men in Britain"

Gosh, Keith is the Professor of Non Sequiturs at the University of Delusion!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Nov 17 - 05:35 AM

I don't recall Steve addressing you as 'the professor' but I am sure he will correct me if I am wrong.

Guido is still a right wing tosser either way.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Nov 17 - 05:46 AM

He mirrors the professor, resorts to the extreme right-wing Guido Fawkes - then calls a perfectly sane academic "barking mad."

Two things. That was a response to a post from Iains that appears to be no longer here. The sentence is a list of three items, the first two separated, correctly, by a comma. I neither wrote "He mirrors the professor by resorting to an extreme right-wing website...", nor did I intend it to mean that. Had that been the intended meaning, the sentence quoted above would have been highly ungrammatical. I could spend half my time here correcting deliberate misreading of posts. Ah well.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 29 Nov 17 - 06:09 AM

From: DMcG - PM
Date: 28 Nov 17 - 02:04 PM
Although it sometimes feels I am running a one man campaign to promote "Hansard" todays do make interesting reading and I would suggest anyone commenting without reading it could be on shaky grounds.
There at least three separate processes under way trying determine what happens next and the likely winner is far from clear at this time.

I'm getting a mixed message here:
Line one, "read Hansard to shore up your comments".
Line two, "even if you've read Hansard you won't have been able to shore up your comments"

In these circumstances reading Hansard doesn't appear to offer any help.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 29 Nov 17 - 06:25 AM

On the 'grammar' thread Steve Shaw says: When I look back at some of my posts, I see that I'm guilty of constructing somewhat elaborate and tortuous sentences at times. They might not contain actual mistakes but they give the reader too much mental processing to do. As has been well said, it's all about communicating ideas clearly.

Does this mean he's finally realised that nuance, whimsy, and sarcasm do not make themselves easily understood in this medium, and will he try to avoid them in future?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 29 Nov 17 - 06:27 AM

I don't think there is a mixed message, Nigel. Hansard records the debate so it covers all the different points of view. The press is likely to pick out a choice phrase or two. I am just giving people warning that in this debate it is worth being extra careful not to be misled over what the view of Parliament is because at least three different positions are in play. One is an MP acting as is their right to seek a declaration of contempt....

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Nov 17 - 06:31 AM

No, Nigel. It means precisely what I said. As I've detected that you can, in fact, write quite decent English, I've concluded that your "inability" to perceive whimsy, sarcasm and nuance is a sad product of various deficiencies in your personality. But I won't dwell. Let's do brexit. From go whistle to fifty billion. I rarely credit Farage with anything, but that wasn't half bad!

Now for that border...

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 29 Nov 17 - 06:31 AM

(Large message issue)

... the second is for Ben and Davis to meet to decide whether an agreement can be reached that the documents have or have not been delivered and the third is that IDS and co are seeking a new motion to supercede the one where contempt could arise.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: bobad
Date: 29 Nov 17 - 08:23 AM

Guido Fawkes is not an "extreme Right Wing site" anyway.

You should know by now Keith that when a source presents information or opinion that contradicts that of the die-hard ideologues they reflexively attack the source rather than the content. Putting labels on it and calling it names is their preferred method of attack.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Nov 17 - 08:30 AM

Latest Brexit fiasco - the Government has announced a 'deal' to pay Europe £50 billion as an exit fee
Barnier says no deal had been finalised.
Lorra-lorra money, one way o t'other and a leap from the £2220 billion Tery the Mayfly promised not so long ago.
"Guido Fawkes is not an "extreme Right Wing site" anyway."
The Fawkes site is a right wing site which excels itself in peddling conspiracy theories - it originated in that doyen of free speech and democracy, The Sun on Sunday.
A self description reads "Staines began the "Guido Fawkes Blog of plots, rumours and conspiracy". The name is an alternative of Guy Fawkes, and continues that symbolism with the masthead slogan "tittle tattle, gossip and rumours about Westminster's Mother of Parliaments."
Someone to be taken very, very seriously - obviously!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Nov 17 - 08:39 AM

" £2220 billion"
Whoops - should read £20 billion - feckin' keyboard
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 29 Nov 17 - 08:47 AM

"Someone to be taken very, very seriously - obviously!!"

You and your equally pathetic mates evidently think so, otherwise you would not continuously babble on about him.
I'm glad you appreciate his incisive style of accurate journalism.
No False news for him, by jingo!!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Nov 17 - 08:56 AM

"You and your equally pathetic mates evidently think so, otherwise you would not continuously babble on about him."
You and Keith appear to be the only ones who take him seriously - you quote him regularly
To repeat: "tittle tattle, gossip and rumours about Westminster's Mother of Parliaments."
A self-description of how seriously he takes his information
Sounds like the old Blackpool publication, 'Billy's Weekly Liar" without the popular support
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: bobad
Date: 29 Nov 17 - 09:01 AM

Exposing anti-Semitism in the Labour party makes someone, ipso facto, a right winger to some.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Nov 17 - 10:04 AM

"Exposing anti-Semitism in the Labour party makes someone, ipso facto, a right winger to some."
Every single accusation of Labour antisemitism hass been traced directly back to the anti-BDS campaign and has been instigated by 'Friends of Israel'
The complaints are about criticism of Israeli right-winbg extremism, not the Jewish People, many of whom are equally critical of the regime
If antybody else had mentioned this you anfd yours would be screaming that we always criticise Isreal, yet you regime-supporters apparently are free to raise it whenever you wish
THIS IS ABOUT BREXIT - NOT ANTI-SEMITISM though the racist manner in which Brexit was sold is quite likely to lead to a further rise in antisemitism - as indicated here
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/us-jewish-lobby-nigel-farage-power-anti-semitism-ukip-leader-a8031191.html
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Nov 17 - 10:09 AM

Every single accusation of Labour antisemitism hass been traced directly back to the anti-BDS campaign and has been instigated by 'Friends of Israel'

No it has not.

Guido Faulks is not an extreme site.

Whatever Conor Gearty is a professor of, he is still a fool if he equates Brexit to the Vietnam war.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: bobad
Date: 29 Nov 17 - 10:18 AM

Every single accusation of Labour antisemitism hass been traced directly back to the anti-BDS campaign and has been instigated by 'Friends of Israel'

Which, of course, is a blatant anti-Semitic statement in itself.

Chew on this tidbit of Labour anti-Semitism.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 29 Nov 17 - 10:24 AM


Whatever Conor Gearty is a professor of, he is still a fool if he equates Brexit to the Vietnam war.

Can you provide a link where he does? All have found are sites like the one given where someone claims he does, and others, like the Independent, which say he draws sone specific parallels, but that is not equivakence.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Greg F.
Date: 29 Nov 17 - 10:26 AM

Exposing anti-Semitism in the Labour party makes someone, ipso facto, a right winger to some.....Which, of course, is a blatant anti-Semitic statement in itself.

Jesus, not this shit again. Can we PLEASE ignore this buffoon?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 29 Nov 17 - 10:28 AM

I should say I have read his full blog post and I see him making a parallel there, not claiming equivalence.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Nov 17 - 10:52 AM

"Guido Faulks is not an extreme site."
Sure it's not Keith !!!!
Jim Carroll