BS: Post Brexit life in the UK

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 03:26 PM

We're risking getting our prisoners executed in the US and say we don't mind because they committed horrendous crimes such as beheading captives on video. Every year Saudi Arabia beheads hundreds of people in public squares yet we're selling them dozens of fighter jets that will be used, among other things, to bomb Yemeni civilians back to the Stone Age. Chimes with what you're saying, Pete.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: peteglasgow
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 02:49 PM

the whole world is run for the benefit of the american military/industrial machine. we also spend obscene amounts of money buying weapons to attack other nations. it's all absurd and unnecessary. i'm looking forward to labour getting rid of nuclear weapons and us joining the vast majority of the worlds' nations in working for peace

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 02:04 PM

the United States still maintains nearly 800 military bases in more than 70 countries and territories abroad—from giant “Little Americas” to small radar facilities. Britain, France and Russia, by contrast, have about 30 foreign bases combined.

Why? best ask TPTB!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: peteglasgow
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 12:58 PM

why would any other EU country 'need' british military? or more pertinently, american bases?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 12:35 PM

Theresa May takes personal charge of Brexit talks

That's an interesting move. I think it makes leaving without a deal less likely, but what do others think of the change?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 12:23 PM

Pete,
i'm assuming that when we have left the EU there will be no british troops on the european mainland

Wrong assumption. We are not leaving Nato, and Europe needs British troops.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: peteglasgow
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 12:20 PM

d'oh! cyprus -of course - but it wasn't my point really. (can you get classes in decent manners, iain?)

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 11:33 AM

i'm assuming that when we have left the EU there will be no british troops on the european mainland - that has to be good news if only for the young women in cyprus!

Under the current Army 2020 plan, British Forces Germany (BFG) will be re-located back to the UK by 2020 – many units have already returned.

Nowt to do with brexit.

Cyprus an island
definition of island: a piece of land surrounded by water.

I think some posting are in dire need of remedial classes.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 11:27 AM

"that has to be good news if only for the young women in cyprus!"
I SHOULD IMAGINE SO
MIND YOU _ THEY WERE PUNISHED
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 11:27 AM

wot abaht gibralter?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 11:07 AM

Pete - tut-tut! Cyprus isn't a part of the European mainland, it's an island in the Mediterranean! ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: peteglasgow
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 10:55 AM

i'm assuming that when we have left the EU there will be no british troops on the european mainland - that has to be good news if only for the young women in cyprus!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 08:59 AM

You're sick.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 06:43 AM

gate to plate

https://www.gs1ie.org/retail/food/food-traceability/beef-traceability-with-gs1-standards.html

Care to point out where the waffle is?
Is it the ex teacher
ex union troublemaker,
well educated scientist
botanist
or simply the Shaw bullshit artist speaking?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 06:36 AM

Would the UK checks be more stringent were the meat originating outside the UK? The answer would have to be yes

And the costs in staff, buildings and equipment would also be higher, don't you agree?

Let me know when you see the budget specificially allocated for this.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 05:37 AM

Utter waffle.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 05:25 AM

I see the remainiacs are being very cute with their responses concerning the horsemeat scandal in Ireland.
1)The suspect burgers were produced at two Irish processing plants, Liffey Meats and Silvercrest Foods, and one plant in the UK, Dalepak Hambleton.One burger from the Silvercrest meat processing factory in Co Monaghan was found to contain 29% horse meat.By 16 January 2013 four subsidiaries of ABP had been accused of supplying adulterated meat. They were Silvercrest in County Monaghan, Dalepak in North Yorkshire, Freshlink in Glasgow, ABP Nenagh in County Tipperary, Ireland and Dairy Crest, Rossington.
2)In the UK Of 27 beef burger products tested, 37% were positive for horse DNA, and 85% were positive for pig DNA. Of 31 beef meal products tested, 21 were positive for pig DNA but all were negative for horse DNA. 19 salami products were tested but were negative for all foreign DNA.[13] Of the 37% of beef products tested positive for horse DNA, Tesco's inexpensive Everyday Value Beef Burgers tested at 29.1%. All other reported brands had less than 0.3% horse DNA. These products originated from Liffey Meats and Silvercrest Foods in Ireland and Dalepak Hambleton food processing plant in the United Kingdom. Trace amounts of horse DNA were also found in raw ingredients imported from Spain and the Netherlands.

A simple analysis of the situation suggests that Criminal activity occurred somewhere in the long supply chain. The EU checks   on the supply chain documentation and verification of stated material failed miserably. Ireland imported dodgy meat and sold the resulting burgers both nationally and exported to the UK, before the adulteration was picked up.
There are no winners in this fiasco, it merely highlights the fact that despite vetting and checking if criminals wish to be criminals, for a time they will be.
Would the UK checks be more stringent were the meat originating outside the UK? The answer would have to be yes, because everyone relies on everyone else in the EU and engenders a very false sense of security. Theoretically meat movement within the EU should carry documentation ensuring accountability every step of the process from farmgate to plate. Could the EU deity perhaps have feet of clay?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 04:07 AM

DMcG, It would not be appropriate to waste tax payers money duplicating work being carried out collaboratively in the EU. it would be far better to just let contaminated products just to go on sale and wait until people become seriously ill or die before withdrawing the products.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 04:01 AM

You really want to know why we don't test everything automatically all the time?

Resource limits.

Why did we not test that specific case? I don't have that detail but quite possibly because we knew the relevant tests were being done by an Irish lab we trusted.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 03:43 AM

There was also the contaminated Dutch eggs last year.
Guardian,
"Sainsbury’s, Morrisons, Waitrose and Asda withdraw items as FSA says 700,000 contaminated eggs have reached Britain"
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/aug/10/700000-eggs-linked-to-eu-scare-exported-to-britain-watchdog-says

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 03:17 AM

Actually it is a better example than you seem to think.
Why did we not test it automatically?
Possibly just because its source was the EU, which some would try to persuade us have better standards than ours.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 24 Jul 18 - 02:12 AM

Actually, Steve it is worse than that. The particular straw grasped at is in favour of the EU and against the UK being separated.

before being identified in UK & Ireland

That's perhaps careless phrasing. The horsemeat was identified in Ireland (10 Dec 2012). The UK was not involved. Sample were then sent to Germany and Brussels labs - again the UK was not yet involved. Once the presence had been confirmed, the UK was informed on 14 Jan 2013. Whereupon it undertook the important but essentially drudge work of checking lots of products.

This is a good example of the EU working together, taking advantage of the fact that not everyone has to test everything, as long as the results are shared.

Now suppose we get to a no-deal. Have we strengthened the inspectorates so they can do all the testing of everything themselves now? No. The horse meat was being sold in the UK, but we were not detecting it. That didn't really matter too much if, as part of the EU, someone somewhere was testing it. From now on, it has to be us.

Or, of course, we can let the standards drop, in practice if not in law.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 08:34 PM

Clutching at straws, Nigel. As ever.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 06:01 PM

There are always people who want to cheat the system, Nigel. That's real life. It does not alter my point at all.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 05:54 PM

The balance could change any time, and is more likely to do in a country in its own than one bound into a larger group.

It's good to know the EU have got our back on this one. There again there was the horse meat scandal in 2013 where the meat originated in Poland, and passed through France, before being identified in UK & Ireland.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 04:51 PM

Do you anticipate these protections being rolled back as a result of brexit.?


I consider it possible. Nigel has already indicated he would be happy to do so on foodstuffs and in every case there is a trade off between those protections (aka red tape) and business profits.   

The balance could change any time, and is more likely to do in a country in its own than one bound into a larger group.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 04:26 PM

" Until then, nothing breaching the standards should be admitted."
Anything breaching the standards is liable to confiscation and the consumer has additional protection offered by the consumer rights bill, should goods not be of the requisite standard. Over time the web of protection offered to consumers and workers covering every aspect of their lives has become ever more protective.
Do you anticipate these protections being rolled back as a result of brexit.?

much of this legislation originated in the UK long before the EU was even a gleam in someone's eye:

The factory act of 1802
The factories act 1833 and HM factory Inspectorate

etc, etc,
and more recently the Cullen report on Piper Alpha 1990 that impacted oil and gas exploration worldwide.
The UK was a world leader in protective legislation both before and after membership of the EU.
Why would brexit change this? The very idea is risible!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 04:22 PM

It's a good job "Weer taking are cuntry back - looks like "Weer giving a lot of other stuff away"...

http://www.eurolabour.org.uk/no-deal-tory-brexit-impact-uk-holidaymakers-summer-2019

Any good news about BrexShit, anybody...??

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 02:40 PM

David,
Keith, no, we will not continue to attract them.

Reuters ONS last week,
“The data suggest that the UK is still an attractive country, but its allure for EU migrants has declined considerably over the past couple of years,” she said.
“It’s not all about Brexit: EU net migration was unusually high just before the referendum, and it’s likely that some of the decline would have happened anyway even if the UK had not voted to leave,” she added.
Overall net immigration to Britain should be viewed as broadly stable, the ONS said. The increase in net immigration in 2017 was probably due to an undercount of foreign students in 2016."
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-immigration/eu-immigration-to-britain-falls-to-five-year-low-ons-idUKKBN1K60VP

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 11:54 AM

Before you came back and make out I am making claims about safety, I am not. The examples I happened to pick were about safety, but it could have been many other things: advertising standards for example.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 11:51 AM


Why ever not? The fact that they will offer to sell some goods that you don't wish to buy does not mean they can insist on you buying them

That is a very weak argument Nigel. We have agreed standards on animal welfare and food quality. We might choose to change them of course, but at the moment they are what they are. The idea we can just import things that breach these standards and leave it up to people to choose what they like would apply to any sort of regulation at all. Why insist electrical goods are safe? Let them go into the shops and people can choose not to buy them. Why not allow lead painted toys alongside safe ones?

The standards are what they are. If the country, via its government, changes them fine. Until then, nothing breaching the standards should be admitted.

There is a very strong opposition to lowering food standards, as far as polls can be trusted. The government is currently pledging not to lower the food standards, If it then chose to do so without consulting in any way such as via a manifesto, it would have created yet another reason to vote against it.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 11:41 AM

From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 11:24 AM

You have a very short memory, Nigel. I've given the comparative trade stats already, and fairly recently. Our trade with the EU is far larger and far more crucial to our economy than trade with the US. Of course, you may wish to argue the red herring point about deficits ...

And what comment was that in response to?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 11:24 AM

You have a very short memory, Nigel. I've given the comparative trade stats already, and fairly recently. Our trade with the EU is far larger and far more crucial to our economy than trade with the US. Of course, you may wish to argue the red herring point about deficits ...

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 11:16 AM

From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 08:44 AM
Nigel, I don't want a trade deal with the US unless they adopt EU food hygiene, Health and Safety, Animal Welfare and Environmental standards. Speak for yourself.

Why ever not? The fact that they will offer to sell some goods that you don't wish to buy does not mean they can insist on you buying them. Vegans can (and do) still shop at Tesco's even though they may find some of their products distasteful.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Stanron
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 09:55 AM

Steve Shaw wrote: Too vague. Give us the numbers.

If you don't believe it no amount of numbers will convince you. If you do believe it what do you want the numbers for?

You could, of course, do battle with a search engine yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 09:32 AM

"It is better trade in terms of trade balance than the trade we do with the EU."

Too vague. Give us the numbers.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 08:47 AM

D McG, there is a section of the population and a large section of the British press who would blame the EU in that situation. But this needs to be countered, and if he was a responsible person Jeremy Hunt would be helping to do this. If he doesn't, we must, by whatever means necessary.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 08:44 AM

Nigel, I don't want a trade deal with the US unless they adopt EU food hygiene, Health and Safety, Animal Welfare and Environmental standards. Speak for yourself.

Keith, no, we will not continue to attract them. We are already losing non-EU as well as EU staff as the true nature of the British population becomes apparent to them.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 08:37 AM

According to the Guardian, Jeremy Hunt has said the UK public will blame the EU for a no-deal Brexit.

I imagine he is right. No matter the vast numbers of leavers who have been saying "Just walk Away Now' since the referendum. No matter that had we voted to remain we would not have a no-deal. No matter if we had competant negotators we would probably not have no-deal. No matter that the EU has been clear and solid in its stance and we have just chosen to believe they have to change to suit us.

No, the key Leaver's principle will be, as usual, its all Europe's fault.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Stanron
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 08:18 AM

We trade with the US already, even without a 'Trade Deal'. It is better trade in terms of trade balance than the trade we do with the EU. If we end up with 'No Deal' we will be able to trade with the EU on similar terms. The main difference will be that we can choose to impose current EU tariffs on other foreign business or not.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 07:47 AM

Maybe Trump will win another term, then, in six years' time, the next President will put us to the back of the queue. :-)


Actually, I'm being serious...

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 07:16 AM

"Yes we will. We currently have to let in anyone from EU skilled or not.
In future we can choose who comes, and no preference for Europeans over people from Asia, Africa or anywhere else."

Please define 'we'.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 06:30 AM

"OOOOOH dear!!!"
It is the only sensible response to the bulk of your postings.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 05:36 AM

"OOOOOH dear!!!"
Still on an intellectual high, I see
And still not a single response
Perhaps May should enlist you as an advisor
It's about the level she's operating at at present
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 05:29 AM

Sorry: i should have said it is the 22nd amendment that limits Presidents to two terms.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 05:26 AM

Just as a reminder, it is the 22nd amendmebt to the US constitution. There have been numerous attempts to overturn it and I for one would not be in the least surprised if Trump sought to do that should he win a second term.

Here is a clip from wikipedia on some previous attempts.

The first efforts in Congress to repeal the 22nd Amendment were undertaken in 1956, only five years after the amendment's ratification. According to the Congressional Research Service, over the ensuing half-century (through 2008) 54 joint resolutionsseeking to repeal the two-term presidential election limit were introduced (primarily in the House); none were given serious consideration.[1] Between 1997 and 2013, José E. Serrano introduced nine resolutions (one per Congress, all unsuccessful) to repeal the amendment.[32]

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 05:15 AM

Yes, Trump is a temporary president, for the next couple of years. I think it likely he wins a second term.

Trade deals are signed by the President, who can decline to sign them, at least in theory and with this guy probably in practice if he so chooses.

Are you happy to wait perhaps 6 years to sign a deal?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 05:09 AM

No we will not have the choice.

Yes we will. We currently have to let in anyone from EU skilled or not.
In future we can choose who comes, and no preference for Europeans over people from Asia, Africa or anywhere else.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 05:08 AM

And further to that, SPB, the country can only choose to admit from those who choose to come here. So if an organisation moves from the UK to the EU, the applicants will choose to go there. If the UK appears to be unwelcoming - and I fully admit much of the EU is also unwelcoming - they will be inclined to look to some other country. It is not by any means just the UK that does the choosing.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 23 Jul 18 - 05:04 AM

Yet our brave brexiteers live in eternal hope of making a great trade deal with this unstable man, a deal that so much hinges on. You'd have thought that this elementary point would be giving them the severe jitters. None so blind as the feeble of mind...

Just to clarify, the UK would like a trade deal with the US. This is not a trade deal with Trump. He is just the present, temporary, president.