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BS: Post Brexit life in the UK

Keith A of Hertford 21 Oct 17 - 05:32 AM
Steve Shaw 21 Oct 17 - 05:03 AM
DMcG 21 Oct 17 - 04:34 AM
Iains 21 Oct 17 - 03:25 AM
Iains 21 Oct 17 - 03:21 AM
Teribus 21 Oct 17 - 02:39 AM
Steve Shaw 20 Oct 17 - 06:38 PM
Teribus 20 Oct 17 - 06:14 PM
Steve Shaw 20 Oct 17 - 05:02 PM
Teribus 20 Oct 17 - 04:29 PM
Steve Shaw 20 Oct 17 - 02:26 PM
Keith A of Hertford 20 Oct 17 - 01:54 PM
Steve Shaw 20 Oct 17 - 12:32 PM
Teribus 20 Oct 17 - 12:09 PM
Raggytash 20 Oct 17 - 10:50 AM
Iains 20 Oct 17 - 10:47 AM
Steve Shaw 20 Oct 17 - 10:03 AM
Dave the Gnome 20 Oct 17 - 09:50 AM
Keith A of Hertford 20 Oct 17 - 09:45 AM
Dave the Gnome 20 Oct 17 - 09:38 AM
Keith A of Hertford 20 Oct 17 - 09:33 AM
Dave the Gnome 20 Oct 17 - 09:23 AM
Keith A of Hertford 20 Oct 17 - 09:22 AM
Keith A of Hertford 20 Oct 17 - 09:17 AM
Steve Shaw 20 Oct 17 - 09:14 AM
Nigel Parsons 20 Oct 17 - 07:39 AM
DMcG 20 Oct 17 - 07:22 AM
DMcG 20 Oct 17 - 07:15 AM
Teribus 20 Oct 17 - 07:09 AM
DMcG 20 Oct 17 - 06:11 AM
akenaton 20 Oct 17 - 06:07 AM
Teribus 20 Oct 17 - 05:56 AM
DMcG 20 Oct 17 - 05:56 AM
Nigel Parsons 20 Oct 17 - 05:55 AM
DMcG 20 Oct 17 - 05:48 AM
akenaton 20 Oct 17 - 05:45 AM
DMcG 20 Oct 17 - 05:24 AM
Teribus 20 Oct 17 - 05:03 AM
DMcG 20 Oct 17 - 04:41 AM
Teribus 20 Oct 17 - 03:40 AM
Iains 20 Oct 17 - 03:37 AM
akenaton 20 Oct 17 - 03:31 AM
akenaton 20 Oct 17 - 03:25 AM
Steve Shaw 19 Oct 17 - 06:14 PM
Steve Shaw 19 Oct 17 - 05:53 PM
Dave the Gnome 19 Oct 17 - 04:39 PM
Keith A of Hertford 19 Oct 17 - 08:00 AM
SPB-Cooperator 19 Oct 17 - 07:21 AM
Dave the Gnome 19 Oct 17 - 06:28 AM
Steve Shaw 19 Oct 17 - 06:21 AM
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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Oct 17 - 05:32 AM

Steve, we currently have to impose tariffs on nonEU food.
Food will be cheaper for us when we do not, and EU food is more expensive than on the world market. They will not be able to sell their food to anyone else. Losing our market will enrage their farmers.

If EU impose tariffs on our exports to them it will hurt a bit, but the low pound makes our exports more attractive to everyone, and we will not have squandered billions to prop up EU.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Oct 17 - 05:03 AM

Hubris reigns supreme here still, I see. Just one small point: if you really want to see this as two adversaries with horns locked, it's twenty-seven with 450 million versus one with sixty-five million. Not David versus Goliath, either, if you're feeling heroic. More like David versus the Lernaean Hydra, and David's already limping a bit.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 21 Oct 17 - 04:34 AM

It is very hard to get a true picture from anywhere.

Yes, indeed it is hard. Diogenes would have agreed.

So I can only suggest you consider things less as simply true and false, and more in terms of 'what level of confidence do I have that this statement is true'? The picture then is far from simple, as you now need to accept opposing views with different levels of confidence, but I find it a better approach.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 21 Oct 17 - 03:25 AM

It is very hard to get a true picture from anywhere. Is the link accurate or wishful thinking?


https://capx.co/eu-leaders-mustnt-squander-this-brexit-momentum/


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 21 Oct 17 - 03:21 AM

Cloth eared Corbyn rides into Brussels to get negotiations on track.
I can see where shaw gets hid ideas from.

I would say that undermining the official negotiations is probably treason. Time to lock the goon up.


cowboy corbyn rides into town

What a bunch!
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-41688280


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Teribus
Date: 21 Oct 17 - 02:39 AM

"does the Lisbon Treaty say what we should do regarding financial commitments on leaving?"

No it does not, there is no instrument, or article contained in the treaty that can compel any member state to pay anything - the terms under which a member state leaves MUST BE AGREED by the EU and the state that is leaving. There is a stipulated time limit given to reach that agreement which is within 24 months of Article 50 being triggered by the member state - once that time period has elapsed the state is simply no longer a member of the EU. In the case of the UK that date is the 29th March, 2019.

So far it would appear that while the UK's negotiating team has been waiting to discuss and negotiate all aspects of the leaving process, those in charge of negotiations from the EU's side have not. All we have heard out of them have been threats and demands. They have given a figure which they dictate must be met before negotiations on anything else take place. That figure has not been broken down, it has not been explained, it has not been justified. Neither the UK, or it's population, are a country, or a people, that responds well to being dictated to (France and Germany should know that from history - Napoleon once tried to impose a ban on British trade with Europe - it cost him his Empire). Messrs Juncker, Barnier and the rest that comprise the unelected EU Commission have up to now arrogantly tried to run the clock down in order to put pressure on the UK - If they continue to do so, if they refuse to negotiate all aspects of the withdrawal process then they are going to end up with nothing. Should they then attempt to "punish" the UK with tariffs and trade barriers, they will find themselves in breach and in dispute with the WTO on all five guiding rules of the WTO which all member states of the EU agreed to when they joined, as individuals, on 1st January 1995.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Oct 17 - 06:38 PM

Quite so. But does the Lisbon Treaty say what we should do regarding financial commitments on leaving? You just can't accept that we are in unknown territory here, can you? Even if the EU ends up having no legal recourse, there's that bad blood and there's the fact that our economy will be a basket case by 2019 the way things are going. Pound, productivity, growth, all wilting fast. But do feel free to carry on putting on your brave face.

Anyway, that is all hypothetical. May has already made herself a hostage to fortune. We will pay money.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Teribus
Date: 20 Oct 17 - 06:14 PM

What "legal" conundrum?

"There is no precedent for a net contributor leaving the EU without paying their dues."

The EU Treaty of Lisbon outlines the procedure for member states who wish to exercise their sovereign right to leave the EU. It is described in Article 50 of that treaty - oddly enough Shaw it makes no distinction between net contributor states and non-contributing states. It is against WTO rules for the EU to make that distinction.

"It is by no means settled that we can leave without paying and that'll be that."

Neither the EU or the UK have signed any paper that binds them legally to pay compensation - if there is please refer me to it. Any such payment must be arrived at by mutual agreement - now believe it or not Shaw that involves dialogue - it is NOT simply a case of the EU Commission in the shape of Juncker, or Barnier, plucking a figure out of thin air and demanding that the UK pays that. It is NOT for the Prime Ministers, or Finance Ministers, of the other EU member states to closet themselves in some chamber and decide what the UK must pay then simply demand that sum - It is for whoever is negotiating on behalf of the EU AND THE UK to agree what that figure is - Now then Shaw IF the EU want anything then they had better start listening to what the British negotiators are saying is necessary for starting those negotiations relating to payments. Which I suppose that is why the EU rules require that the whole process cannot be split up and sub-divided as they have done with result that talks and progress seems to have stalled.

It is a process of dialogue, it is NOT for the EU Commission to set preconditions. While they may THINK that they can lord it over the entire process, they had best realise without doubt that in the forthcoming negotiations (If they expect the UK to stump up) then they had best start treating the UK with a bit of respect, refrain from talk of "punishment" (Juncker, I believe), and approach these talks as equals. As it is the EU who expects the UK to pay them they should be aware of the "Golden Rule" - It is the UK's GOLD.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Oct 17 - 05:02 PM

Ah, but our collapsed pound and all those tariffs...

As I'm sure you realise, new legal conundrums have to be tested. There is no precedent for a net contributor leaving the EU without paying their dues. You don't have to believe me. You can google this stuff and get the views of people far more expert than you and me. It is by no means settled that we can leave without paying and that'll be that. That's your hubris and brave face showing through. Reality could be different. By the time we leave our economy will be sick, we will not have all these wonderful WTO deals in place and we will look like a very unattractive potential trading partner. And you've said nothing about the bureaucratic nightmare facing our service sector. Go on, look it up. We are going to pay up. Face it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Teribus
Date: 20 Oct 17 - 04:29 PM

"Whether we have a legal obligation has yet to be clarified. Unknown, untested waters and all that." - Shaw

Only to you Shaw, only to you.

"If we leave with a walk-away no-deal, with EU nations aggrieved over the non-payment of our dues, trading conditions between the EU and UK will be difficult and there will be obstructive behaviour, even sanctions." - Shaw

If we do indeed leave with a walk away no deal - on behaviour up to now the EU nations will indeed have the right to feel aggrieved at the stance and tactics of Messrs Junckers and Barnier. Trading conditions between the UK and every other country in the world INCLUDING those of the EU will be those practiced under the rules established by the WTO (If the EU fail to comply with this they will find themselves under threat of isolation and "even sanctions").

"We walk away without paying. They won't want to trade."

Really? The German automotive industry will be absolutely delighted when you tell them that Shaw, currently the UK represents 20% of their sales. As usual you present your rather shaky opinions as fact, unfortunately for you your assertions defy the logic and reasoning that the EU sell more to us than they buy from us, so if they don't want to trade with us, who do they sell their goods and products to?

"They may be obstructive. That could include sanctions, de facto or formal."

As Keith A has already said, "obstructive" - No change there, what sanctions that would break WTO rules would the WTO allow?


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Oct 17 - 02:26 PM

We walk away without paying. They won't want to trade. They may be obstructive. That could include sanctions, de facto or formal. Do you think that because we're British that we are above such things? You guys really do think that we Brits are the dog's danglies, don't you? Well you have a rude awakening coming up once we leave. Our flagging economy already makes this country nothing special. Just wait 'til brexit comes to see how unspecial we are.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Oct 17 - 01:54 PM

The EU team do not agree that we should be talking about the favourable trade deal the UK wants before the substance of the settlement bill is agreed.

We need to know what we are paying for before agreeing how much to pay for it.

We ARE going to pay money. If we don't, three things will happen. We will get a lousy deal.

Paying more money is what will make it a bad deal.

There will be bad blood with our main trading partner (no-one is queuing up to replace them fast enough to rescue our failing economy once we're out).

No-one is queuing up to replace us as their main outside trading partner.

And we will be chased for payment, possibly through legal process, for years.

Fine. We will only have to pay what we are legally obliged to, eventually.

We are the one causing the trouble.

No. They are moving away from us. They are no longer just a trading block. They want political union and they can have it, but it is not for us.

there will be obstructive behaviour,
No change there then.

even sanctions.

Ha, ha.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Oct 17 - 12:32 PM

Whether we have a legal obligation has yet to be clarified. Unknown, untested waters and all that. If we leave with a walk-away no-deal, with EU nations aggrieved over the non-payment of our dues, trading conditions between the EU and UK will be difficult and there will be obstructive behaviour, even sanctions. Ain't going to happen, is it, Woodcock? (What did they call you at school, by the way? Call me Steve as the civilised members of this forum do and I won't ask again. I could guess...Woodcock...fertile ground there...) You two talk with a mixture of hubris, brave face and totally unfounded optimism. Have you seen the latest stats on our economy? Seen how the pound is floundering again this week? What a great start for our launch into the big, wide world of tariffs on everything...


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Teribus
Date: 20 Oct 17 - 12:09 PM

"we will be chased for payment, possibly through legal process, for years." - Shaw

Wrong - there is no legal obligation for us to pay anything and absolutely no legal means or court in which the EU could present, or pursue their claim. But Shaw, were they to attempt to do so, they would have to both quantify and justify what it was that they are claiming - TRUE??

"We are not suddenly going to stop selling to and buying from the EU when we leave." - Shaw

Well hopefully not Shaw but that seems to depend on the member states of the EU doesn't it? After all we will have a choice that we currently do not have we can go looking elsewhere for the same, or similar goods and produce and as the fifth largest economy on the planet with a population of some 65 million I think that we will be viewed as a reasonably good prospect as long term customers.

"After 2019 we will still be driving around in beamers and quaffing Prosecco and eating lots of EU-produced food." - Shaw

Really Shaw? Your opinion not fact. I have never driven around in a "beamer" and I do not quaff Proseco, so that comes down to customer choice - also have a look at how much of the food in our supermarkets comes from outside the EU:

"Based on the farm-gate value of unprocessed food in 2015, the UK supplied over half (52%) of the food consumed in the UK. The leading foreign suppliers of food consumed in the UK were countries from the EU (29% of the food consumed in the UK) and Africa, Asia, North and South America (all providing a 4% share). Two countries accounted for 69% of UK imports of fresh vegetables. Three countries accounted for 54% of unmilled wheat imports, and four countries accounted for 44% of UK imports of fresh fruit.
It is worth noting that around 160 countries make up a significant portion (about 12%) of our food imports ? making the UK?s tastes truly global and integral to the world economy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 20 Oct 17 - 10:50 AM

Ah there speaks a true diplomat .........







........ Little Englander style. Next we'll send in the gun boats.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 20 Oct 17 - 10:47 AM

Just as well we do not have to rely on shaw to lead our negotiating team
for brexit. We would end up in a truly sorry state. He must be following the lead of rollover corbyn. I wonder if the French farmers have revamped their business plans to cope with the funding hole in the CAP after our withdrawal. They will no longer be able to afford the diesel to allow their tractors to clutter up the streets for a protest.
" We are not the ones who get to set the negotiating parameters"
Wrong!!!!!
I rather suspect we set out our stall when we told the rest of the EU we were off. A bill for leaving is the ranting of a petulant child and best ignored. Those missing UK contributions will cause pain from Brussels to Strsabourg and it will only be alleviated when the EU goons start to be sensible.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Oct 17 - 10:03 AM

It takes two to negotiate. Negotiation first of all requires agreeing on the framework. The EU team do not agree that we should be talking about the favourable trade deal the UK wants before the substance of the settlement bill is agreed. If you don't think that's fair, tell us why not. We ARE going to pay money. If we don't, three things will happen. We will get a lousy deal. There will be bad blood with our main trading partner (no-one is queuing up to replace them fast enough to rescue our failing economy once we're out). And we will be chased for payment, possibly through legal process, for years. We will be paying money. The more hubris our clownish negotiators show over this now, the more dirt they'll have to eat later. We are the one causing the trouble. One out of 28. We are not the ones who get to set the negotiating parameters. Unless you're a Blimpish little Englander, that seems to be the way it should be.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Oct 17 - 09:50 AM

Read my last sentence.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Oct 17 - 09:45 AM

Your point is not at all obvious Dave.
Are you criticising the negotiators or not?
If not, why did you post that "they have done nothing full stop?"
What was your point?

Should they be free to discuss trade and citizens rights?
I think they should. Are you with me on that?


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Oct 17 - 09:38 AM

I thought that was quite obvious, Keith. Regardless of the whys and wherefores, the negotiators are not negotiating. That is what I said. No more no less. You have agreed. No point in continuing really is there as I am not going to jump through any Keithyhoops to keep you entertained.

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Oct 17 - 09:33 AM

I have referred to that block on negotiation before Dave.
It is not the negotiators fault that they are not allowed to negotiate those issues, so why do you appear to be blaming them for it?

What exactly is the point you are trying to make here?


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Oct 17 - 09:23 AM

So you agree that they are not negotiating then? Thanks Keith.

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Oct 17 - 09:22 AM

We are not suddenly going to stop selling to and buying from the EU when we leave. After 2019 we will still be driving around in beamers and quaffing Prosecco and eating lots of EU-produced food.

We will be able to buy cheaper food on the world market, and if Beamers and prosecco cost too much we can switch to New World wine and Japanese cars.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Oct 17 - 09:17 AM

Dave,
All I am saying is that the so called negotiators are not negotiating

They are not negotiating on trade or citizens' rights because EU leadership forbids it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Oct 17 - 09:14 AM

Ah yes, Nigel. As soon as the going gets tough, have a bash at the good old Beeb. I'm sure that Barnier and Juncker hang on Laura K's every word. Perhaps you would like her replaced by a Tory sycophant. Pity you can't have Jezza Paxo back. All those years at the helm, then we find out that he was a Tory all along. Tsk. Or you could try Andrew Neil, who worked for the Conservatives in his youth and was once the chairman of the Federation of Conservative students, not to speak of his dalliances with those raving Marxists, Murdoch and the Barclay brothers - or how about Nick Robinson, once chairman of the Young Conservatives, or even his former editor Robbie Gibb who used to work for Francis Maude as his chief of staff. Or how about that nice Tory Chris Patten, former chairman of the BBC trust. Or the charming Kamal Ahmed, filched from his post as executive business editor of those rabid leftie papers the Daily and Sunday Telegraph. Flippin' reds under the beds everywhere at the Beeb, eh!

And we are getting some very simplistic talk from the likes of Teribus. We are not suddenly going to stop selling to and buying from the EU when we leave. After 2019 we will still be driving around in beamers and quaffing Prosecco and eating lots of EU-produced food. Of course, it'll all cost more, and we buy more than we sell. Not only that, with the pound at rock bottom (any bets on a pound buying just 80 cents and one bare US dollar by 2020?), well, I reckon that takes care of your 11 billion a year. Cor, those WTO trade deals had better be good! Anyway, what were you thinking you were going to be doing with it? Give it to the NHS by any chance? Ha bloody ha. Heard it before, I'm afraid.

Then there's the biggest part of our economy, the service sector. Runs like a fairly well-oiled machine right now. But once the barricades go up after brexit, just watch the bureaucratic nightmare unfold. Note how HM Govt is pretty quiet about that. The truth will out, as ever, sooner or later.

So, we won't be leaving, will we?


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 20 Oct 17 - 07:39 AM

For what it is worth, here are two tweets from Laura Kuenssberg on Oct 20 2017:
10:53am: May does not deny that she has told other leaders privately that she'd be willing to pay many billons more than the initial 20 billion
10:54 But she certainly doesn't confirm it either! Rests on the "we'll go through line by line" answer.


Firstly, "many billions more than 20 billion" is a very nebulous idea (25bn?). And I would possibly agree with the UK offering more, if the amount was being justified by the EU, or if I could see that it was gaining us some benefit we wouldn't otherwise have received.
Secondly, Laura Kuenssberg hardly appears to be objective when appearing on television about Brexit. This may be despite being employed by BBC, or because of.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 20 Oct 17 - 07:22 AM

Damn! "Won't be"


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 20 Oct 17 - 07:15 AM

Not wriggling at all, T, but it I don't get into personal arguments so I would be continuing this little diversion any further.

For what it is worth, here are two tweets from Laura Kuenssberg on Oct 20 2017:

10:53am: May does not deny that she has told other leaders privately that she'd be willing to pay many billons more than the initial 20 billion


10:54 But she certainly doesn't confirm it either! Rests on the "we'll go through line by line" answer.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Teribus
Date: 20 Oct 17 - 07:09 AM

You are wriggling DMcG.

DMcG - 20 Oct 17 - 04:41 AM

"Reportedly Mrs May has now offered ?40 billion."


"Reportedly" as used by you above, means that it has been reported but YOU do not necessarily believe that report - All well and good. But then you go on to state - "When it comes to figures plucked out of the air, the UK seems as prone to it as the EU." - which sort of infers that YOU DO BELIEVE the report. Bit of a contradiction there DMcG - so which one is it? It is still a misrepresentation.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 20 Oct 17 - 06:11 AM

You will note that my 4:41 post began with the word "Reportedly". That was to highlight it was based on a report. I do not yet know if it will be reported anywhere else; it may or may not be. However no as subsequent reports have yet appeared to my knowledge it seemed the most responsible thing to alert people that. I could very easily have just left it and hoped people would not realise. After all you seemed to believe if May has said that it is all fine, so now saying it is slanderous seems an interesting response.

In my book, if I say something that I begin to suspect may turn out to be unfounded, I consider it best to say so, and will continue to do so.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: akenaton
Date: 20 Oct 17 - 06:07 AM

Well most of us don't recognise a "hard" or "soft" Brexit "D". We are realists who see it in terms of "in the EU" or "out".

Nothing else is on the table.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Teribus
Date: 20 Oct 17 - 05:56 AM

Even worse then DMcG. You criticise and condemn our Prime Minister based on an unconfirmed and unsubstantiated rumour of what MIGHT have been said unofficially in a private conversation? Your post of 20 Oct 17 - 04:41 AM is a total misrepresentation worthy of Shaw or Carroll.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 20 Oct 17 - 05:56 AM


If you think they are playing a game to see how much "they can get out of us" "D", why are you not joining us in supporting Brexit?


Because I was reflecting Teribus' phraseology. It is a 'game' in the game-theorical sense that all negotiations are. In any negotiation you are working for the best deal as you see it, and so are they. For a really good example of political game play, I highly recommend "The Lion in Winter" and the discussion bwtween Henry and French King in particular.

But recognising that aspect of the negotitions is a completely different thing to supporting a hard Brexit.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 20 Oct 17 - 05:55 AM

"No deal" is looking better all the time.
And the sooner the better. Let's get on with trading with the rest of the world.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 20 Oct 17 - 05:48 AM

I should say btw that while 40b came up in a link as a figure raised during a private discussion I have not seen any other reference to it so it is quite possibly an unfounded rumour.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: akenaton
Date: 20 Oct 17 - 05:45 AM

If you think they are playing a game to see how much "they can get out of us" "D", why are you not joining us in supporting Brexit?


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 20 Oct 17 - 05:24 AM


"When it comes to figures plucked out of the air, the UK seems as prone to it as the EU."

Why not DMcG? It is the game that they started. So going by what is sauce for the goose is also sauce for the gander, no-one on the EU side of the fence can possibly object.?


Oh, I don't see many in the EU objecting since it sets a new floor on what they can get out of us. On the other hand i can see a lot of Brexiteers objecting.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Teribus
Date: 20 Oct 17 - 05:03 AM

"When it comes to figures plucked out of the air, the UK seems as prone to it as the EU."

Why not DMcG? It is the game that they started. So going by what is sauce for the goose is also sauce for the gander, no-one on the EU side of the fence can possibly object. What it might prompt them to do is have a stab at justifying their 100 billion.

Meanwhile as they witter on about the bill the clock ticks down and they are faced with getting nothing. We on the other hand by today's prices are automatically 11 billion better off every year after 29th March 2019. The EU and Michel Bernard Barnier can threaten all they like, when we leave, and if we leave without a deal, it will be the EU that will be decidedly the worse off - without our yearly ever increasing level of contribution and without our business (We buy more from them than they buy from us remember - we can always buy from elsewhere - who do they sell their new surplus to?).


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 20 Oct 17 - 04:41 AM

Reportedly Mrs May has now offered ?40 billion. When it comes to figures plucked out of the air, the UK seems as prone to it as the EU.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Teribus
Date: 20 Oct 17 - 03:40 AM

At present there are 28 EU member states of which only 9 of them are net contributors. The UK is the second largest contributor after Germany. Of course the EU does not want us to leave, we pay in far too much for what we in return get out of it.

At present we buy more from the EU than the EU buys from us. Of course the EU does not want us to leave, we are one of their best customers.

We leave with "No deal" and we trade with the rest of the world. This releases us from the current tariffs that the EU applies to goods coming from outside the EU. We are free to negotiate our own deals in order to purchase elsewhere what we used to buy from the EU - who are the EU member states going to sell the produce and goods that the UK used to buy to? We leave with "No Deal" and we wave goodbye to about 26 billion (UK's share of what the EU hold but have not yet spent) but we save at least 11 billion a year (A figure that had we remained in the EU would have increased year on year) and we are not saddled with some bill where the figure has just been plucked from thin air without justification or substantiation. Of course the EU does not want us to leave, what a dangerous precedent we would set for their remaining members.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 20 Oct 17 - 03:37 AM

They are all mad as hatters!

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4724330/jeremy-corbyn-heralded-as-the-uks-new-prime-minister-by-leftie-eu-leaders/
Perhaps we should renovate a cellar in the tower for the treacherous twerp's return.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: akenaton
Date: 20 Oct 17 - 03:31 AM

The Public mood seems to be hardening in relation to our exit from the EU, the Question Time audience heard out the Myth Spinners in stony silence while those who proposed walking away were cheered.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: akenaton
Date: 20 Oct 17 - 03:25 AM

Greg!!!   where have you been? Donuel has been trying to fill in for you......but its not the same :0)....Welcome back.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Oct 17 - 06:14 PM

Well, I was merely suggesting that you worked to your strengths. You are likely a damn good roofer. Who knows. But you are not a damn good member of this forum. You exhibit homophobia and xenophobia routinely and demonstrate that, basically, you understand nothing about anything. That's a weakness, so do us a favour and stick to what you're good at. Up that ladder, my man.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Oct 17 - 05:53 PM

Well I was going to ask you to lend me a tenner, Dave...


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Oct 17 - 04:39 PM

I dunno if I am supporting anything or not, Keith. I am sure Steve needs no help from me. All I am saying is that the so called negotiators are not negotiating just as the so called government is not governing. A right shower of shits conducting a shambles of a show. How's that for alliteration!

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 Oct 17 - 08:00 AM

Dave,
So how does that detract from my comment that the negotiators had not done anything?
I took it to be a criticism of one side, in support of Steve.
Good to know you were not supporting his case.

It must be true because it is in more than one newspaper?
It is much more likely to be, yes.
The Independent has a reputation for honest and reliable reporting.

Rag.
You obviously have read or perhaps understood the link I provide about tariffs.

Yes both thanks. It was only a wiki page on tariffs. It did not contradict anything I have said. Can you find anything that does? No.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 19 Oct 17 - 07:21 AM

And under these new rukes - what makes you think you have the right to dictate to people who is and who is no longer entitled to live togather in a pre-exisiting relationships. If the government split up UK couples then you would be the first to start whining.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Oct 17 - 06:28 AM

Q1. D the G. Are you also in the unfortunate postion on believing nought unless first perused in the guardian?

A1. Never have. The media is all biased. Some are worse than others. Any reference I make to any media is usually a direct contradiction to a view expounded elsewhere. Just shows that the same events can be reported in multiple and often opposite ways.

Q2. Why do you still confuse the message with the messenger?

A2. Never have. But if the messenger consistently contorts the truth they should be challenged about it. See A1, above.

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Oct 17 - 06:21 AM

Yeah, like that permanent sign behind the bar in the Bullers Arms, "Free beer tomorrow."


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