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BS: Post Brexit life in the UK

Iains 22 Jul 18 - 04:19 PM
Jim Carroll 22 Jul 18 - 02:56 PM
David Carter (UK) 22 Jul 18 - 02:35 PM
Keith A of Hertford 22 Jul 18 - 02:20 PM
Jim Carroll 22 Jul 18 - 12:20 PM
SPB-Cooperator 22 Jul 18 - 12:05 PM
Raggytash 22 Jul 18 - 11:19 AM
The Sandman 22 Jul 18 - 11:08 AM
KarenH 22 Jul 18 - 10:52 AM
David Carter (UK) 22 Jul 18 - 10:45 AM
Jim Carroll 22 Jul 18 - 10:41 AM
Steve Shaw 22 Jul 18 - 10:36 AM
Keith A of Hertford 22 Jul 18 - 10:26 AM
KarenH 22 Jul 18 - 10:12 AM
Keith A of Hertford 22 Jul 18 - 10:11 AM
Steve Shaw 22 Jul 18 - 07:22 AM
David Carter (UK) 22 Jul 18 - 07:14 AM
Jim Carroll 22 Jul 18 - 06:15 AM
Jack Campin 22 Jul 18 - 05:58 AM
SPB-Cooperator 22 Jul 18 - 05:48 AM
DMcG 22 Jul 18 - 05:11 AM
Keith A of Hertford 22 Jul 18 - 04:53 AM
Iains 22 Jul 18 - 04:41 AM
The Sandman 22 Jul 18 - 03:38 AM
Dave the Gnome 22 Jul 18 - 03:36 AM
DMcG 22 Jul 18 - 02:47 AM
Jim Carroll 21 Jul 18 - 07:53 PM
Steve Shaw 21 Jul 18 - 07:06 PM
DMcG 21 Jul 18 - 03:30 PM
Nigel Parsons 21 Jul 18 - 03:21 PM
Backwoodsman 21 Jul 18 - 03:02 PM
DMcG 21 Jul 18 - 02:50 PM
Nigel Parsons 21 Jul 18 - 02:47 PM
DMcG 21 Jul 18 - 02:39 PM
David Carter (UK) 21 Jul 18 - 02:39 PM
Keith A of Hertford 21 Jul 18 - 04:32 AM
Keith A of Hertford 21 Jul 18 - 04:28 AM
David Carter (UK) 21 Jul 18 - 04:18 AM
DMcG 21 Jul 18 - 03:07 AM
Steve Shaw 20 Jul 18 - 09:24 PM
Nigel Parsons 20 Jul 18 - 08:59 PM
DMcG 20 Jul 18 - 05:01 PM
peteaberdeen 20 Jul 18 - 04:07 PM
Keith A of Hertford 20 Jul 18 - 02:46 PM
Raggytash 20 Jul 18 - 02:40 PM
Keith A of Hertford 20 Jul 18 - 02:37 PM
Jim Carroll 20 Jul 18 - 01:36 PM
Jim Carroll 20 Jul 18 - 01:36 PM
Iains 20 Jul 18 - 01:05 PM
Raggytash 20 Jul 18 - 12:42 PM

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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 22 Jul 18 - 04:19 PM

"Rule Britannia my arseum"
more idiocy off the resident clown!


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Jul 18 - 02:56 PM

Everyone is not committed to end free movement David
Labour have argued that, as the majority voted for Brexit, the decision must be adhered tpo The Tories have made it clear that Brexit is about stopping free movement in (immigration) so if that means nobody can move out - tough luck
Labour have dedicated themselves to continuing to work with Europe - the Brexit fundamentalists say that any co-operation with Europe is tantamount st staying in - three different stances for three different reasons
It is one of Keith's crassest crassisms to suggest everybody is omitted to end it - he bends the facts to fit his fanaticism quite a lot

Silence on the possibility of violence breaking out again in Ireland - now there's a surprise !
The only way these people continue to wave the flag for this ongoing farce is to pretend what is happening isn't
Rule Britannia my arseum
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 22 Jul 18 - 02:35 PM

No I am not Keith. Practically anyone who works in a University, or in high tech industry, or anyone who runs a business believe that free movement is a good thing. Which pretty much means anybody who contributes to the country rather than just sponging off it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Jul 18 - 02:20 PM

David,
If they are committed to end free movement...

They are. It is not just the government. Good luck with the fight, but you are pretty much on your own.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Jul 18 - 12:20 PM

Two fascinating articles linking Brexit with Northern Ireland Peace
Jim Carroll
ONE
TWO


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 22 Jul 18 - 12:05 PM

The simple answer would be to apply a windfall tax on the benefit to exports through the weaker pound, and use these to provide direct government subsidies on imports. If the WTO do not allow it, then the government would then be directly responsible for the consequences.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 22 Jul 18 - 11:19 AM

Thank you Sandman, you saved the rest of us from pointing out the obvious to those that will not see the truth of the matter.

Now anyone got any good news?


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Jul 18 - 11:08 AM

"The more the EU machinations drive down the pound, the more competitive we become."
At the sametime imports become dearer
what dopes the UK export these days? , it appears to import a lot of its food. I was under the impression that the UK exports very little compared to the 1950s


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: KarenH
Date: 22 Jul 18 - 10:52 AM

Not usually one to quote the Times but from the Financial Times, this:


        
        Unionist and Nationalist parties in Northern Ireland made a rare joint statement calling for calm on Friday after six consecutive nights of rioting in Londonderry. The violence was blamed on dissident Irish republicans who reject Sinn Féin’s support for the Good Friday deal. Earlier in the week, pro-British loyalists were blamed for violence in Belfast on the eve of celebrations to mark the 1690 Battle of the Boyne, an event they hold dear.

The tension comes after 19 months in which the region has been without an executive after a breakdown in relations between the Democratic Unionists and Sinn Féin, putting pressure on the Good Friday peace pact of 1998 that ended decades of lethal sectarian conflict. The deadlock is made worse by Brexit. The DUP backs leaving the EU, Sinn Féin opposes and the British and Irish government are divided on the future status of the border between the Irish Republic and Northern Ireland. With no talks under way, a sharp escalation of tensions in the region’s biggest towns brought parties together this week to say society must “stand with those who maintain law and order and who protect all sides of our community”. The plea for calm was signed by the DUP, Sinn Féin and three smaller parties.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 22 Jul 18 - 10:45 AM

Keith,

I am not a Labour party member. If they are committed to end free movement then they are wrong, and they betray future generations and their internationalist background.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Jul 18 - 10:41 AM

Get your sectarian facts right Keith
The PSNI say the dissident were to blame - adams just says they were involved
The Glorious Twelfth is Over give your sectarianism a rest
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Jul 18 - 10:36 AM

An excellent post, Karen. From your post:

."None of this is helped by the fact that Trump hates the EU, and is in any case fighting trade wars, not the best type to be looking for a trade 'deal' with I would have thought."

Yet our brave brexiteers live in eternal hope of making a great trade deal with this unstable man, a deal that so much hinges on. You'd have thought that this elementary point would be giving them the severe jitters. None so blind as the feeble of mind...


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Jul 18 - 10:26 AM

Kids from different Christian sects were rioting in Northern Ireland this month.

According to Gerry Adams, the violence was all dissident Republicans.
Political not religious.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/gerry-adams-derry-riots-sinn-fein-explosive-device-northern-ireland-a8447151.html


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: KarenH
Date: 22 Jul 18 - 10:12 AM

One aspect of post Brexit life will be racist behaviour such as that I witnessed the day after the referendum results were announced.

It is worrying that Steve Bannon has set out to support far right groups all over Europe. This is a guy who thinks that Tommy Robinson, whose supporters were giving Nazi salutes in London the other weekend, is all right. Bannon they say is the one who got Trump to pull out on the environmental agreements.


On the environment, the UK is in trouble with the EU because of the poor quality of its air, which doesn't bode well for things environmental after Brexit.


None of this is helped by the fact that Trump hates the EU, and is in any case fighting trade wars, not the best type to be looking for a trade 'deal' with I would have thought.


On jobs, a Brexiteer interviewed on radio 4 the other week said that they thought British manufacturing industry might vanish after Brexit but they thought it was a price worth paying, though it was not clear to me that they would be paying any of this price personally.


Some Brexit voters believed that money 'saved' by not sending it to the EU would be spent on the NHS and council services, but given a government when even the former minister for the NHS (Hunt) had expressed ideological opposition to the principles underlying the NHS and continuing 'austerity' policies which have led to the shameful situation of food banks in one of the 'richest' countries in the world.

But my feeling is that if living standards do plummmet after Brexit a government led by illiberal millionaires like Rees Moog won't be admitting that Brexit had anything to do with it.

The EU does have its problems, putting it mildly, and there is a democratic deficit in the way it works. But at least we have not had another European war.

But the problems around the border between the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland seem to be a stumbling block and I do worry that once again there may be bloodshed. Kids from different Christian sects were rioting in Northern Ireland this month.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Jul 18 - 10:11 AM

David,
To fail to defend that right is a betrayal of democracy and decency

Labour Party is also committed to ending freedom of movement.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Jul 18 - 07:22 AM

"Soi-disant" came from a Nigel post, actually. I didn't need no forrin climes. I got it from an actual Tory heartlander, from Little England itself! If you spent a bit more time reading threads and a bit less time looking for trouble we'd all find life a bit sweeter. Finally, before you deign to seek out MY deficiencies in English, perhaps you should remember that "well-educated" requires a hyphen. :-)

The pound collapsed immediately after the referendum because of the poll result. It did not collapse because of any EU machinations. There hadn't been time for any of those before the collapse took place. Unless you have a conspiracy theory to back up that claim, of course!


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 22 Jul 18 - 07:14 AM

No ship has sailed Keith, if you think that we are going to give up this fight you can think again.Freedom of movement is a hard won right for myself, and for citizens of this country. Especially our young people. To fail to defend that right is a betrayal of democracy and decency.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Jul 18 - 06:15 AM

New kid on the block
Trump's people and well-heeled right wingers in the US are raising money to assist the right in Britain to form an alternative Hard Exit Party led by Johnson and Farage
THE JACKBOOTS ARE ON THE MARCH
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jack Campin
Date: 22 Jul 18 - 05:58 AM

Iain Macwhirter in the Sunday Herald:

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/16369923.iain-macwhirter-no-deal-brexit-would-mean-no-more-uk/


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 22 Jul 18 - 05:48 AM

So do these include paying 100% of the cost of dual nationality for all UK nationals who want it? Ensuring that the government will pay 100% of the costs for businesses to adapt, and to pay for tier 2 status compliance for all EU nationals, and pay 100% of the costs of tier 1 (entrepreneur) status compliance for all EU nationals in existing or future relationship with UK nationals? Will UK nationals who are denied relationships with EU nationals in the future be given the right to deny the right of UK nationals to live together in a relationship?


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 22 Jul 18 - 05:11 AM

So when Teresa May told the liaision committee May said: "Over August and September we are going to be releasing a number of technical notifications to set out what UK citizens and businesses need to do in a no deal scenario the answer from two of our leavers appers to be 'absolutely nothing'.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Jul 18 - 04:53 AM

David, The best deal for me includes my right of freedom of movement. The UK government is not acting in our interests,

Labour too. Freedom of movement will end. That ship has sailed.

DMcG, there are preparations to be made, but not at household level. Raab said on Marr today that the government is making all necessary preparations.

Does it, maybe, kind of feel like that risk that was taken with our children and our children’s children’s futures might not be paying off?
Sunday Times poll confirms my reply. The opposite is true.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 22 Jul 18 - 04:41 AM

I see the well educated scientist has a marked deficiency in his mastery of the English language. He has to go to foreign climes to find the word he needs. Or is he simply trying to impress us with a little schoolboy French?

" let's see if you can back up your "soi-disant" compliment. Or is it just a bitter piece of copying from your brother-in-arms Iains... :-)

I suggest you check exchange rates over the last 10 years. The pound bounces up and down like a whore's drawers.

https://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=GBP&to=EUR&view=10Y

The more the EU machinations drive down the pound, the more competitive we become. Perhaps we should be thanking them!


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Jul 18 - 03:38 AM

It is possible or maybe probable The uk are going to suffer cuts in wages, cuts in social welfare, Ireland will also problems,


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Jul 18 - 03:36 AM

It is very depressing DMcG. Not surprising though when you look at how far to the right even this forum has moved. The Nazi party was formed in 1919. It looks like we are doomed to walk the same path just 100 years later.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 22 Jul 18 - 02:47 AM

This was reported in today's Sunday Times:

===

In a survey that will spark unease in Downing Street, the YouGov poll found that the public believes Boris Johnson, the former foreign secretary, is better placed to negotiate with Brussels and lead the Conservatives into the next election.

It highlights how voters are polarising, with growing numbers alienated from the two main parties. About 38% would vote for a new party on the right that was committed to Brexit, while 24% are prepared to support an explicitly far-right anti-immigrant, anti-Islam party.

One in three voters are prepared to back a new anti-Brexit centrist party.


===

24%. Depressing. But at least, as the article says, they seem determined to make the Tories unelectable: "Tory donors and allies of Nigel Farage, the former Ukip leader, are now plotting to raise £10m to set up a new hard-Brexit party — a move that could make it impossible for the Tories to win the next election"


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Jul 18 - 07:53 PM

"The EU doesn't want to negotiate"
That is unbelievably misleading and inward-looking
The EU doesn't want to negotiate a deal that is to the detriment of member states any more than Britain doesn't want to negotiate one that doesn't suit us (supposedly)
None of you have even responded to the damage that Britain crashing out of Europe will do to the Peace process or to the Irish economy both sides of the border
The Republic is now facing having to reorganize its economic tactics in case May bows to her fundamentalists - that is going to upset fairly cost British?Irish relations - the undoing of decades of hard work
Ironically, the party who has benefited most out of all this in Ireland is Sinn Fein - both sides of the border again
Having moved away from sectarianism, they have become a respectable party offering an alternative policy
Britain was forced to do a deal with the highly sectarian Jurassic Park DUP by bunging them a massive bribe
The Mayflies have behaved like fractious children trying throwing their toys about when they can't get their way
This whole affair has humiliated Britain internationally and continues to do so
That going to help "us to stand on our own two feet" - sure it is!

The only people to have benefited out of all this are the satirists - can't wait for 'Carry on Little Britain' or "Allo, Allo Boris"
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Jul 18 - 07:06 PM

The pound is in a parlous state, Nigel (you could do worse than review its last week's performance). Your attempt to highlight what may have been a slip by Raggytash (a grand lad who can speak for himself) is a blatant attempt at deflection from the fact that the pound has been well and truly nobbled by the prospect of brexit (cue Nige bravely telling us that it's all an "overdue correction") and has signally failed to regain what its value was even before the pre-referendum bulge. You are in total denial and are trying to use what you see as others' little slips to deflect us away from the dreadful mess that your party has got us into. And, if you want extra homework, let's see if you can back up your "soi-disant" compliment. Or is it just a bitter piece of copying from your brother-in-arms Iains... :-) Far better to think for yourself, for a change... Think you can manage?


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 21 Jul 18 - 03:30 PM

Do I read that, Nigel, as saying you anticipate no disruption at all that affects the ordinary citizen should we have 'no-deal'? (By the way I just looked at some online bets and they are currently 1/1 for no-deal).   So a household should not prepare at all with things like making sure they have say 2 months supply of any medication more than whatever their normal precautions are?


That's why I suggested remainers should not comment. Had I suggested making sure you had several months stock of medication more than you would usually have, I would expect to be accused of project fear.

But never mind, I will take it that you do not recommend doing any such thing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 21 Jul 18 - 03:21 PM

From: DMcG - PM
Date: 21 Jul 18 - 02:50 PM
In fact, let's do their work for them. Why don't all our leavers here suggest 4 or 5 precautions the ordinary citizen should take to prepare for no deal, or explicitly declare no preparation is needed? Then we will know in a few short months if they were right.
I suggest remainers do not make such suggestions, because everyone knows we are all gloomy and miserable people, only interested in talking the country down. So let's just get the advice from the positive people here. Let's hope we don't just get a resounding silence.


I see no reason to take preparations against a possible 'no deal' situation. or explicitly declare no preparation is needed?. As things currently stand I think that 'no deal' may be the best outcome that we can hope for. The EU doesn't want to negotiate. They just poo poo any suggestions put forward by UK, without any counter-proposals.

But to say that remainers, who seem to fear such an outcome, should not comment seems to be avoiding the question.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 21 Jul 18 - 03:02 PM

Take unicorn-riding lessons? :-) :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 21 Jul 18 - 02:50 PM

In fact, let's do their work for them. Why don't all our leavers here suggest 4 or 5 precautions the ordinary citizen should take to prepare for no deal, or explicitly declare no preparation is needed? Then we will know in a few short months if they were right.

I suggest remainers do not make such suggestions, because everyone knows we are all gloomy and miserable people, only interested in talking the country down. So let's just get the advice from the positive people here. Let's hope we don't just get a resounding silence.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 21 Jul 18 - 02:47 PM

From: Steve Shaw - PM
Date: 20 Jul 18 - 09:24 PM

Thing is, since the referendum, after which the pound collapsed, the pound has yet to achieve the rather modest level it attained five years ago. Clutching at straws again, Nige. Your attempts at deflection from the undeniably miserable picture are pathetic.


Not 'clutching at straws'. Correcting a comment which is totally inaccurate.
But I don't expect our soi disant "well educated scientist" to understand the difference.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 21 Jul 18 - 02:39 PM

I read earlier part of the liaison committee minutes, and it seems May said: "Over August and September we are going to be releasing a number of technical notifications to set out what UK citizens and businesses need to do in a no deal scenario, so making much more public awareness of the preparations," she told the Liaison Committee, which is made up of the chairman of all Commons Select Committees."

For comparison, the EU has already released 68 aimed at businesses.

I wonder who will get the short straw of writing the ones aimed at what "UK citizens" need to do. They can say preparations need to be made, and be accused of scaremongering and talking the country down. Or they can say "All is going to be fine, no precautions needed" and hope the first month or so after a no-deal is not chaotic.

Or will that paper never actually get published? Perhaps, but the papers at least are going to be demanding it and referring back to this promise.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 21 Jul 18 - 02:39 PM

But Keith, maybe the best deal for you is not the best deal for me. The best deal for me includes my right of freedom of movement. The UK government is not acting in our interests, it is not "us".


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Jul 18 - 04:32 AM

DMcG,
How well do we think that’s going, exactly?

No-one is happy with how it is going.

Does it, maybe, kind of feel like that risk that was taken with our children and our children’s children’s futures might not be paying off?

No, and there is no sign of significant number changing their mind.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Jul 18 - 04:28 AM

6100!

The deal offered by Brussels is the best for them, not us.
Our interests are different so we must negotiate and compromise.

that it's the responsibility of the EU to give the U.K. everything it wants.

Of course it is not, but it is the responsibility of our government to get the best possible deal for us.
That requires our government to argue against them in our interest.

No-one here has defended how the government has gone about that.
We are all in agreement on that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 21 Jul 18 - 04:18 AM

It is ironic that the best deal for us is probably that offered by Brussels, and not that sought by the UK government, who have long since ceased to act in the interests of the population of the country.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 21 Jul 18 - 03:07 AM

Tom Peck in the Independent wrote an article about the EU response to the White paper, which ends with the following. I think the question it asks is something we all need to ask.

===

At the start of her Belfast speech, by the way, [Teresa May] referred to what she had said "outside 10 Downing Street" when she became prime minister, about how the Conservative party’s full name is the Conservative and Unionist Party, "and how important that word, Unionist, is to me".

But there are some other words said by her outside 10 Downing Street about a year later, when she sought to consolidate her abysmal election campaign by rattling her sabre at Brussels, that suddenly feel more relevant, and which I quote here at length.

"This Brexit negotiation is central to everything," she said then.

"If we don’t get the negotiation right, your economic security and prosperity will be put at risk and the opportunities you seek for your families will simply not happen.

"If we do not stand up and get this negotiation right we risk the secure and well-paid jobs we want for our children and our children’s children too.

"If we don’t get the negotiation right, if we let the bureaucrats of Brussels run over us, we will lose the chance to build a fairer society with real opportunity for all."

How well do we think that’s going, exactly? Does it, maybe, kind of feel like that risk that was taken with our children and our children’s children’s futures might not be paying off?


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Jul 18 - 09:24 PM

Thing is, since the referendum, after which the pound collapsed, the pound has yet to achieve the rather modest level it attained five years ago. Clutching at straws again, Nige. Your attempts at deflection from the undeniably miserable picture are pathetic.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 20 Jul 18 - 08:59 PM

From: Raggytash - PM
Date: 20 Jul 18 - 02:40 PM
. . . I could also point out that immediately before the Brexit vote it has been trading at around 1.30 Euro to the pound and above for several years.


Once again this false claim which you have made before.
Immediately prior to the Brexit vote the pound was indeed trading at over 1.30 Euro. But not "for several years".
The graph of exchange rates shows that the pound did not hit 1.30 (or above) at any time between 2009 and the end of 2014. Pound/EU Rates


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 20 Jul 18 - 05:01 PM

i'm sure everyone else (if they are honest) is just as bored and confused by the whole stupid idea as i am

I would not say I am bored by it - it is too important. Confused? Well, it is definitely confusing because everything is so incoherent. Only today, for example, Jeremy Hunt was saying the white paper is not the final word, in direct contraction to Andrea Leadsom yesterday who was saying it was. That's the level of mess we are in. The only way to get any handle at all on it is to accept that the UK proposals do not make a logical whole, and whatever is said is about picking acceptable forms of words while avoiding attaching any definite meaning to them, thus allowing everyone to interpret them to suit their own inclinations. Sometimes that is excellent politics. At other times, like now, it is disastrous. That lack of meaning is why Teresa May was not able to explain to the liaison committee how her customs plan would actually work.

Is the whole thing a stupid idea? Most certainly.

Am I honest? *I* think so, but others must judge for themselves :)


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: peteaberdeen
Date: 20 Jul 18 - 04:07 PM

keith 'it is the responsibility of the government to get the best possible deal for us' well, that seems very obvious to me but some brexiteers i speak to seem to think may etc are in the business of selling us out and are suspicious of any distilling of the hard line brexit means brexit call. especially if it involves thinking by experts or liberals. our current government has tied itself into so many bizarre knots by trying to appease all parts of its party and ukippers that it literally makes no sense whatsoever. time to abandon the whole project eh? i'm sure everyone else (if they are honest) is just as bored and confused by the whole stupid idea as i am


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Jul 18 - 02:46 PM

Iains, a short time ago an idiot claimed that the pound had "soared" because it had risen by one half of one cent,

The idiot was no-one here. It was a quote from Reuters I think.

that it's the responsibility of the EU to give the U.K. everything it wants.

Of course it is not, but it is the responsibility of our government to get the best possible deal for us.
You seem to object to that.
Should we accept any scraps thrown to us? Is that what you want for your kids and grandkids?


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 20 Jul 18 - 02:40 PM

Iains, a short time ago an idiot claimed that the pound had "soared" because it had risen by one half of one cent, which as you and I both know is less than one half of one percent, which again both you and I realise is not "soaring"

You made no response to that inane claim at the time, in fact your silence was "deafening"

So if I now claimed that the pound has "plummeted" because it has fallen by double the amount that was claimed for "soaring" I don't really see how you can object.

Yes, you are correct to point out that a year ago the pound was in fact lower.

I could also point out that immediately before the Brexit vote it has been trading at around 1.30 Euro to the pound and above for several years.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Jul 18 - 02:37 PM

that it's the responsibility of the EU to give the U.K. everything it wants.

Not how I see it.
We have to leave. That has been decided.
Both sides want a deal that minimises damage, but each also wants the best for itself.
Free trade is mutually beneficial but only UK side seems to be pushing for that.
If no compromise can be reached, a mutually damaging exit will happen. We will have to see who it hurts most, or who blinks first.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Jul 18 - 01:36 PM

An interesting aspect of Brexit in this mornings paper which stared as a paeon odf praise for the British/Irish cultural connection, but finished up like this
It should be of interest to those of us here for the music - but certainly won't be to some
Jim Carrolj

THE IRISH TIMES Friday, July 20, 2018
CULTURAL RELIEF FROM THE HEAT AND ENDLESS MADNESS OF BREXIT
Denis Staunton London Letter

.....Over the next eight weeks, about 300, 000 people will attend almost 80 concerts at the Royal Albert Hall and other venues, many paying just £6 for a standing ticket. Among the themes this year are the centenaries of the end of the first World War, the introduction of women’s suffrage and the birth of Leonard Bernstein.
If today’s programme of Schumann, Mendelssohn and others fails to excite you, there are still tickets available for La Bohéme at the Royal Opera House, some for as little as £11. The Lehman Trilogy at the
National Theatre, directed by Sam Mendes and starring Simon Russell Beale as one of the Lehman brothers, is sold out for its entire run.
But you should get a ticket for this evening’s performance of Patrick Marber’s adaptation of Ionesco’s Exit the King, with Rhys Ifans and Indira Varma. And during the afternoon, you could take in the Summer Exhibition at the Royal Academy, co-ordinated this year by Grayson Perry.

NATIONAL IDENTITY
The wealth and excellence of London’s cultural offering is not only a major tourist attraction and one of the joys of living in the city, it is a long¬standing part of Britain’s national identity.
In Humphrey Jennings’s 1942 propaganda film Listen to Britain, a visual poem spanning 24 hours across wartime
Britain, the climactic scene shows Myra Hess performing a Mozart piano concerto at a lunchtime concert at the National Gallery. The music plays over a montage of shots showing the queen (later the queen mother) in the audience. Trafalgar Square, Nelson’s Column, buses rounding a corner and a barrage balloon flying overhead.
Then it cuts to a scene of soldiers marching, bayonets raised and to a munitions factory, with a piston rising and falling. The film’s final images of wheatfield, a factory, a power station and an aerial shot of the English landscape through the clouds are accompanied by Elgar’s Rule Britannia.

The film has no commentary, save for a prologue spoken by Leonard Brockington, a Canadian barrister: “Many years ago, a great American, speaking of Britain, said that in the storm of battle and conflict, she had a secret rigour and a pulse like a cannon. In the great sound picture that is here presented, you too will hear that heart beating. For blended together in one great symphony is the music of Britain at war.
“The evening hymn of the lark, the roar of the Spitfires, the dancers in the great ballroom at Blackpool, the clank of machinery and shunting trains. Soldiers of Canada holding in memory, in proud memory, their home on the range. The BBC sending truth on its journey around the world. The trumpet call of freedom, the war song of a great people. The first sure notes of the march of victory, as you, and I, listen to Britain. ”

Heard today, the words sound like a distillation of the spirit invoked by the most romantic Brexiteers and the Last Night of the Proms has itself in recent years become a battleground for Brexit. Remainers in the audience have taken to bringing European flags into the Royal Albert Hall to wave alongside the Union Jacks during the final, patriotic sequence in the programme.

PRACTICAL PROBLEM
The audience for opera and classical music in Britain includes a generous share of Brexiteers, but among those who work in the arts, it is more difficult to find anyone who doesn’t regret the decision to leave the EU. For many, Brexit could be as much a practical problem as a political one, as composer Howard Goodall pointed out recently.
“Even if we were to negotiate visa-free access for musicians, orchestral players would still see 15-20 per cent of their
salary deducted to pay for social security in their host country, a cost that is currently waived under the EU’s A1 system, ” he wrote.

“Even the movement of instruments would become more problematic. Outside of a customs union, musicians would need to hold an ATA Carnet to avoid paying import duties and taxes on their instruments. Such carnets are expensive, and checks will lead to long queues at borders. ”
The Creative Industries Federation warned last month that, without an agreement to guarantee ease of movement between Britain and the EU, the impact on the UK’s position in the international cultural world would be “catastrophic”.
Chief executive John Kampfner suggested summer festivals could be hit especially hard by extra costs for visas and transporting equipment


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Jul 18 - 01:36 PM

An interesting aspect of Brexit in this mornings paper which stared as a paeon odf praise for the British/Irish cultural connection, but finished up like this
It should be of interest to those of us here for the music - but certainly won't be to some
Jim Carrolj

THE IRISH TIMES Friday, July 20, 2018
CULTURAL RELIEF FROM THE HEAT AND ENDLESS MADNESS OF BREXIT
Denis Staunton London Letter

.....Over the next eight weeks, about 300, 000 people will attend almost 80 concerts at the Royal Albert Hall and other venues, many paying just £6 for a standing ticket. Among the themes this year are the centenaries of the end of the first World War, the introduction of women’s suffrage and the birth of Leonard Bernstein.
If today’s programme of Schumann, Mendelssohn and others fails to excite you, there are still tickets available for La Bohéme at the Royal Opera House, some for as little as £11. The Lehman Trilogy at the
National Theatre, directed by Sam Mendes and starring Simon Russell Beale as one of the Lehman brothers, is sold out for its entire run.
But you should get a ticket for this evening’s performance of Patrick Marber’s adaptation of Ionesco’s Exit the King, with Rhys Ifans and Indira Varma. And during the afternoon, you could take in the Summer Exhibition at the Royal Academy, co-ordinated this year by Grayson Perry.

NATIONAL IDENTITY
The wealth and excellence of London’s cultural offering is not only a major tourist attraction and one of the joys of living in the city, it is a long¬standing part of Britain’s national identity.
In Humphrey Jennings’s 1942 propaganda film Listen to Britain, a visual poem spanning 24 hours across wartime
Britain, the climactic scene shows Myra Hess performing a Mozart piano concerto at a lunchtime concert at the National Gallery. The music plays over a montage of shots showing the queen (later the queen mother) in the audience. Trafalgar Square, Nelson’s Column, buses rounding a corner and a barrage balloon flying overhead.
Then it cuts to a scene of soldiers marching, bayonets raised and to a munitions factory, with a piston rising and falling. The film’s final images of wheatfield, a factory, a power station and an aerial shot of the English landscape through the clouds are accompanied by Elgar’s Rule Britannia.

The film has no commentary, save for a prologue spoken by Leonard Brockington, a Canadian barrister: “Many years ago, a great American, speaking of Britain, said that in the storm of battle and conflict, she had a secret rigour and a pulse like a cannon. In the great sound picture that is here presented, you too will hear that heart beating. For blended together in one great symphony is the music of Britain at war.
“The evening hymn of the lark, the roar of the Spitfires, the dancers in the great ballroom at Blackpool, the clank of machinery and shunting trains. Soldiers of Canada holding in memory, in proud memory, their home on the range. The BBC sending truth on its journey around the world. The trumpet call of freedom, the war song of a great people. The first sure notes of the march of victory, as you, and I, listen to Britain. ”

Heard today, the words sound like a distillation of the spirit invoked by the most romantic Brexiteers and the Last Night of the Proms has itself in recent years become a battleground for Brexit. Remainers in the audience have taken to bringing European flags into the Royal Albert Hall to wave alongside the Union Jacks during the final, patriotic sequence in the programme.

PRACTICAL PROBLEM
The audience for opera and classical music in Britain includes a generous share of Brexiteers, but among those who work in the arts, it is more difficult to find anyone who doesn’t regret the decision to leave the EU. For many, Brexit could be as much a practical problem as a political one, as composer Howard Goodall pointed out recently.
“Even if we were to negotiate visa-free access for musicians, orchestral players would still see 15-20 per cent of their
salary deducted to pay for social security in their host country, a cost that is currently waived under the EU’s A1 system, ” he wrote.

“Even the movement of instruments would become more problematic. Outside of a customs union, musicians would need to hold an ATA Carnet to avoid paying import duties and taxes on their instruments. Such carnets are expensive, and checks will lead to long queues at borders. ”
The Creative Industries Federation warned last month that, without an agreement to guarantee ease of movement between Britain and the EU, the impact on the UK’s position in the international cultural world would be “catastrophic”.
Chief executive John Kampfner suggested summer festivals could be hit especially hard by extra costs for visas and transporting equipment


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 20 Jul 18 - 01:05 PM

"I see the pound has "plummeted" against the Euro once again."


But compared to it's value around 13 months ago the pound has soared.

You need to define your terms laddie, otherwise you merely appear silly.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 20 Jul 18 - 12:42 PM

I see the pound has "plummeted" against the Euro once again.

Brexit don't you just love it.


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