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BS: Post Brexit life in the UK

DMcG 17 Jan 18 - 09:18 AM
Dave the Gnome 17 Jan 18 - 06:10 AM
Raggytash 17 Jan 18 - 05:34 AM
DMcG 17 Jan 18 - 05:30 AM
Dave the Gnome 17 Jan 18 - 05:29 AM
DMcG 17 Jan 18 - 05:22 AM
Dave the Gnome 17 Jan 18 - 05:20 AM
DMcG 17 Jan 18 - 05:14 AM
Keith A of Hertford 17 Jan 18 - 05:12 AM
DMcG 17 Jan 18 - 04:52 AM
Dave the Gnome 17 Jan 18 - 04:50 AM
DMcG 17 Jan 18 - 04:24 AM
Keith A of Hertford 17 Jan 18 - 04:24 AM
Dave the Gnome 17 Jan 18 - 04:06 AM
Nigel Parsons 17 Jan 18 - 03:44 AM
DMcG 17 Jan 18 - 02:53 AM
Backwoodsman 17 Jan 18 - 02:41 AM
Steve Shaw 16 Jan 18 - 07:13 PM
Raggytash 16 Jan 18 - 06:45 PM
Raggytash 16 Jan 18 - 06:42 PM
Steve Shaw 16 Jan 18 - 06:34 PM
Raggytash 16 Jan 18 - 06:30 PM
Kenny B 16 Jan 18 - 06:04 PM
Kenny B 16 Jan 18 - 05:56 PM
Kenny B 16 Jan 18 - 05:50 PM
Kenny B 16 Jan 18 - 05:45 PM
DMcG 16 Jan 18 - 05:45 PM
Dave the Gnome 16 Jan 18 - 05:35 PM
Kenny B 16 Jan 18 - 05:35 PM
Backwoodsman 16 Jan 18 - 05:33 PM
Steve Shaw 16 Jan 18 - 05:15 PM
Kenny B 16 Jan 18 - 05:02 PM
Dave the Gnome 16 Jan 18 - 04:10 PM
Raggytash 16 Jan 18 - 04:04 PM
DMcG 16 Jan 18 - 02:40 PM
Keith A of Hertford 16 Jan 18 - 02:32 PM
Keith A of Hertford 16 Jan 18 - 02:20 PM
Raggytash 16 Jan 18 - 02:20 PM
Iains 16 Jan 18 - 01:59 PM
Dave the Gnome 16 Jan 18 - 01:22 PM
DMcG 16 Jan 18 - 01:09 PM
Raggytash 16 Jan 18 - 12:48 PM
Nigel Parsons 16 Jan 18 - 12:31 PM
DMcG 16 Jan 18 - 12:07 PM
Nigel Parsons 16 Jan 18 - 11:55 AM
DMcG 16 Jan 18 - 11:52 AM
Raggytash 16 Jan 18 - 11:28 AM
Steve Shaw 16 Jan 18 - 11:20 AM
Steve Shaw 16 Jan 18 - 11:14 AM
Raggytash 16 Jan 18 - 10:54 AM
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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 17 Jan 18 - 09:18 AM

I have to say I have been impressed with Dominic Grieve throughout the debates this week. He has spoken with great clarity and considered insight.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Jan 18 - 06:10 AM

DMcG - :-D


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 17 Jan 18 - 05:34 AM

What Teresa May has achieved so far ................. or not.


May's achievements to date


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 17 Jan 18 - 05:30 AM

You may as well try to push butter up a porcupine's arse with a hot needle, McG

Everyone should have a hobby.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Jan 18 - 05:29 AM

You may as well try to push butter up a porcupine's arse with a hot needle, McG.

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 17 Jan 18 - 05:22 AM

DMcG, you can assume I will not knowingly misrepresent anything to anyone

Good, but that is a different thing. I was talking about what happened when we overhear (or similar) someone else making the false assumption that it *was* a promise by Boris. Do we simply let them carry on in error, or do we point out the mistake?
Doing that not the same as actively misrepresenting it ourselves, but it is a sort of 'passive misrepresentation'.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Jan 18 - 05:20 AM

SADGIT


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 17 Jan 18 - 05:14 AM

I have just checked the throwaway comment I made about Norway payments, and it is perhaps too complex to justify my remark. We would need to be clear that we risk comparing the cost of access that Norway pays with what we pay for access *plus everything else*.

So please strike that remark and replace it by 'we may still have to pay substantial amounts for access.'


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Jan 18 - 05:12 AM

DMcG, you can assume I will not knowingly misrepresent anything to anyone.

Dave, you are good at infantile abuse, but woefully inadequate in justifying your statements.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 17 Jan 18 - 04:52 AM

So, Keith, am I to assume you disagree with Nigel and I that Boris' statement "is not a promise to give any prioritisation at all to the NHS."?

It is not such a promise, as you observed.
You may disagree with what he said, and it may prove not to be true, but there is nothing of the weasel in it. Dave made that up


That's clear. So, as I suggested to Nigel, I assume you will be making sure that everyone you meet knows that it was not a promise if the topic arises?


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Jan 18 - 04:50 AM

I have tried English. I have tried German. This time I will try the most basic language I can think of.

Keith. Fuck off.

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 17 Jan 18 - 04:24 AM

Firstly: What we would consider as 'good news' you may not.
Secondly: The good news cannot really be claimed until it is accomplished, and that will not be until we have completed the negotiation period, and either come to an agreement, or not.

I agree with that. There is a lot of subjective judgement on that on both sides.


Basically, Good news:
We are getting out of the EU.
... too general to attach much meaning. It is not in itself good or bad, it is all the detail that matters.


We will take back control of our internationally agreed fishing grounds

This is a very interesting one. It may or may not happen, but it is no simple matter. We have severely depleted our fishing fleets and the supporting facilities and it will take years to build them back up again. That could give us big problems in the meantime as we are talking investment with no short term return.



We will not be expected to join the Euro

... not an issue, we are opted out.

We will not expected to become part of a European army

... not an issue. We have a veto. And losing that veto makes an EU army more likely, not less.


We will massively reduce the payments we make to the EU.
This one very much remains to be seen. Norway, I gather, pays more per capita for access to the market than we do. All the bluster about not paying anything at all have evaporated during the negotiations.
We will show that democracy (literally: rule of the people) still exists

Perhaps. Not that I am convinced it ever existed in the UK - hence the reform Acts, for example.   Our system is representative democracy, not plebiscite.


We will be free to trade with other nations without imposing a standardised list of tariffs intended to be protectionist of European interests

Again perhaps. One thing that people seem to overlook is that any trade agreement involves sacrificing some freedom in exchange for what as seen as a greater benefit. To take an utterly trivial example: The UK power supply runs at 50Hz (more or less) as does almost all the rest of the world. Having the freedom to run it at 100Hz is technically there, but we voluntarily relinquish it in the interests of getting access to all the world's equipment that is designed for the 50Hz. And such things happen in just about every international agreement to promise to do (or not do) certain things in exchange for benefits. The EU tariffs are an example of that: by co-operating at that level we believed be got greater benefits. Perhaps we no longer think that is the case, but it is a judgement, not a 'given', especially as we will have to sacrifice some degree of freedom to set up the new deals. They might, like the frequency of the power supply, be things we can 'sacrifice' without worrying very much. But it all remains to be seen.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Jan 18 - 04:24 AM

DMcG,
So, Keith, am I to assume you disagree with Nigel and I that Boris' statement "is not a promise to give any prioritisation at all to the NHS."?

It is not such a promise, as you observed.
You may disagree with what he said, and it may prove not to be true, but there is nothing of the weasel in it. Dave made that up.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Jan 18 - 04:06 AM

We are getting out of the EU.
And losing all the benefits.

We will take back control of our internationally agreed fishing grounds
That's odd. We have just taken an 'historic step' to withdraw from international fishing agreement

We will not be expected to join the Euro
We never were anyway

We will not expected to become part of a European army
We never were anyway

We will massively reduce the payments we make to the EU.
See point 1. They could have been renogotiated from within anyway.

We will show that democracy (literally: rule of the people) still exists
It never went away.

We will be free to trade with other nations without imposing a standardised list of tariffs intended to be protectionist of European interests.
And buy sub-standard food and goods not subject to the controls we are used to.

Basically, a load of ...

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 17 Jan 18 - 03:44 AM

We have had 2600 posts to this thread and I cannot recall a single post that has contained any good news.
Perhaps those on the leave side could provide some ...............................
.......... even one or two would help.


The problem is two-fold:
Firstly: What we would consider as 'good news' you may not.
Secondly: The good news cannot really be claimed until it is accomplished, and that will not be until we have completed the negotiation period, and either come to an agreement, or not.

Basically, Good news:
We are getting out of the EU.
We will take back control of our internationally agreed fishing grounds
We will not be expected to join the Euro
We will not expected to become part of a European army
We will massively reduce the payments we make to the EU.
We will show that democracy (literally: rule of the people) still exists
We will be free to trade with other nations without imposing a standardised list of tariffs intended to be protectionist of European interests.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 17 Jan 18 - 02:53 AM

Well, there is some good news, even if it didn't make the thread earlier.

I am not saying that in an attempt to reverse the vote. What it means is the 'meaningful vote' can genuinely be meaningful, and what is more that vote could be unifying in a way that has escaped us up to now. If David Davis' team do manage to achieve something that is genuinely a good deal, the House can vote it so and most - by no means all, but most - remainers would be happy.   Equally, we have got rid of the take it or 'no deal' as the only options, so Parliament can decide to no deal or to stay based on whichever is the best interests of the country.

In short, the 'meaningful vote' allows us to move from a simple 'the people (who voted)said this, so we must do it even if we believe it damaging' to 'we have done everything possible to abide by that vote; now we act solely on what is in the best interests of the country'.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Jan 18 - 02:41 AM

Kenny B - Auf Dem Boden, Lacht Mein Arsch Aus!

ADBLMAA isn't quite as catchy as ROTFLMAO though, is it?


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Jan 18 - 07:13 PM

Well fancy that. One of Keith's men making Naz Shah and Ken Livingstone looking positively saintly!

No good news on this thread? We need a cake recipe, and fast!


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 16 Jan 18 - 06:45 PM

We have had 2600 posts to this thread and I cannot recall a single post that has contained any good news.

Perhaps those on the leave side could provide some ...............................


.......... even one or two would help.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 16 Jan 18 - 06:42 PM

I'll try again...........


Despicable behaviour


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Jan 18 - 06:34 PM

Nowt there, Raggytash.

Brexitores illegitimes non carborundum


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 16 Jan 18 - 06:30 PM

I wonder if this could be called an extreme view ..........

Extreme?

Despicable certainly, can anyone defend this?


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Kenny B
Date: 16 Jan 18 - 06:04 PM

DtG
der Groschen ist gefallen


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Kenny B
Date: 16 Jan 18 - 05:56 PM

Fur Bwm
Pog Mo Thoin


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Kenny B
Date: 16 Jan 18 - 05:50 PM

ach so
Meine Fluggeschwindigkeitsanzeige ist aus dem Fenster


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Kenny B
Date: 16 Jan 18 - 05:45 PM

Bitte? entschuldige mich
ich habe diesen Tag in der Schule verpasst


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 16 Jan 18 - 05:45 PM

Mein Luftkissenfahrzeug ist voller Aale


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Jan 18 - 05:35 PM

My nipples are exploding with delight.

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Kenny B
Date: 16 Jan 18 - 05:35 PM

Der Mond ist aufgegangen,
Die goldnen Sternlein prangen.
Am Himmel hell und klar;
Der Wald steht schwarz und schweiget,
Und aus den Wiesen steiget.
Der weiße Nebel wunderbar.

Nach Brexit , wahr oder nicht wahr


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Jan 18 - 05:33 PM

Leck mich am arsch.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Jan 18 - 05:15 PM

Vorsprung durch Technik


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Kenny B
Date: 16 Jan 18 - 05:02 PM

Nicht Raufen ? mit aus feur??


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Jan 18 - 04:10 PM

Nicht durch die Reifen springen

DtG

(Thought I may try a different different language)


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 16 Jan 18 - 04:04 PM

Hoops David, Hoops


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 16 Jan 18 - 02:40 PM

So, Keith, am I to assume you disagree with Nigel and I that Boris' statement "is not a promise to give any prioritisation at all to the NHS."?


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Jan 18 - 02:32 PM

I don't believe anyone who reads or listens to any media can honestly believe the conservative to have any morality or honesty. They'd sell their own grandmother.

That is an extreme view. I know lots of people who do believe in Conservative morality and honesty.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Jan 18 - 02:20 PM

Dave,
it can be summed up by one simple phrase. Weasel words.

No it can't Dave, or will you explain why it can?


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 16 Jan 18 - 02:20 PM

I don't believe anyone who reads or listens to any media can honestly believe the conservative to have any morality or honesty. They'd sell their own grandmother.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 16 Jan 18 - 01:59 PM

I believe the Labour party still has the official position of supporting brexit. Was this because they feared a wipeout at the polls.
Is this real politic or weasel words or that Labour simply cannot be trusted to be honest with their electorate?
It does not inspire confidence when even their diehard supporters in this forum freely admit they had to take the stated line because their very survival as a viable party depended on it.
I think the morality of an alley cat is many magnitudes higher that that of the Labour party.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Jan 18 - 01:22 PM

it can be summed up by one simple phrase. Weasel words.

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 16 Jan 18 - 01:09 PM

I'll not challenge the 'designed' - ambiguity can be a matter of habit for a politician.

Let's look at another word in it: 'should'. This covers a wide spectrum from the 'meh' - it should, but I'm not that fussed and if it doesn't happen I'll shrug - through to the 'really should': Johnson is promising to use 'heart and nerve and sinew/To serve their turn long after they are gone' to ensure it happens if at all possible.

Where do you judge that statement to be? It seems very 'meh' from past experience.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 16 Jan 18 - 12:48 PM

More on the mis-information from Johnson.

Link

Although the lead paragraph refers to the labour partys complaint it goes on to reference conservative misgivings.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 16 Jan 18 - 12:31 PM

I agree that it is likely to be misunderstood by the incautious. But that does not mean that it is 'designed' to be so.
Some people's writing & speaking practices do not lead themselves to simple comprehension.
There are even some on here who will take that route, and when queried try to pass it off as irony, or whimsy. If the comments are allowed to stand, unchallenged, no one will ever be sure whether the poster really meant what they posted, or was being either ironic or whimsical.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 16 Jan 18 - 12:07 PM

I said it because I recognise it to be so. However, I thought it helpful if you also agree it is a sentence designed to mislead the incautious. As you seem to. If so, I hope you take every opportunity to make that clear to anyone who you suspect is making the false assumption.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 16 Jan 18 - 11:55 AM

We don't need to, you've just said it yourself.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 16 Jan 18 - 11:52 AM

"As and when the cash becomes available ? and it won?t until we leave ? the NHS should be at the very top of the list,? said Johnson.

I sure Nigel and Keith will be at the forefront of those pointing out that is not a promise to give any prioritisation at all to the NHS.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 16 Jan 18 - 11:28 AM

Its the "live" page on the guardian website, perhaps that's why it hasn't linked.

It is referring to Johnson latest claims about the money we pay to the EU.

It is also yet another glorious example of the in-fighting within the conservative party.

I will say one thing in favour of Ruth Davidson though, at least she has a sense of humour.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Jan 18 - 11:20 AM

If that's what you were referring to, Raggytash, my apologies. That page won't load for me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Jan 18 - 11:14 AM

and now Boris compounds the bus lie by claiming that the £350 million per week claim should have been even more than that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 16 Jan 18 - 10:54 AM

An interesting but brief snippet of an interview with Ruth Davidson, the Conservative Leader in Scotland and member of the Scottish Parliament. There looks to be a fuller interview on Border ITV tonight.
Clip

The clip is partway down the page.


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