BS: Post Brexit life in the UK

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Oct 17 - 05:15 AM

with the UK withdrawing, their costs will decrease

There are no costs to EU from our membership.
We pay more than we receive by billions every year.
We help to pay THEIR COSTS!

Our departure will leave a huge hole in their economy, and reducing trade with us will add to it.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 23 Oct 17 - 05:21 AM

Iains, the figures have been quoted numerous times.

Prior to Brexit the pound hovered at around the 1.25 to 1.30 euro to the pound mark and had done for almost two and a half years, although it had traded above those figures at about 1.40 euro for a period.

Since Brexit it has fallen to the present 1.12 euro a slight gain on it's lowest figure of 1.08 euro.

(in order to deter the pedants all figure, I acknowledge, are approximate)

Exchange Rate last 5 Years

If anyone wants to dispute these figure please take it up with XE.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 23 Oct 17 - 05:27 AM

Professor could I suggest that you and Teritowelling contact David Davis he obviously could do with your insightful knowledge of international trade.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 23 Oct 17 - 05:42 AM

Raggytash I believe I posted exchange rates pound/euro for a considerable time period already.
pound euro Dec    28 2008 = 1.0229
          July   16 2015 = 1.4294 (max value since around Nov. 2007)
          June   13 2016 = 1.2639
          June   24 2016 = 1.2254 (Day after referendum)

As I stated the decline started before the referendum
pound/euro graph since 2000 .

When it comes to exchange rates averages are totally meaningless.
Who deals in currencies on average values? Answer No one

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Oct 17 - 05:59 AM

"1: The UK is one of the EU's best internal customers. The EU loses a market of 65 million people, who will turn to other products from alternative suppliers in order to keep the weekly household bills down."

The EU does not "lose a market." Trade will continue both ways after brexit subject to tariffs even with the worst outcome. A sensible deal will minimise the tariffs. But we will still drive beamers and drink proseccco and eat Camembert.

"2: The cheaper pound? Has improved our exports and made our products more attractive world-wide, including the EU."

We are net importers, so with a weak pound we lose. And the pound has devalued by the same percentage as at Wilson's devaluation. I wonder what you were saying then.

"3. ....German industry will also be the sector hit the worst by losing us as a customer."

It will not lose us as a customer. Trading conditions will be more difficult, but we will still trade with Germany.

"4: While Backwardsman wails about the pound going through the floor...."

Gratuitous insult noted (Iains has learned a lot from you). See note above about how much the pound has fallen. It's been the main driver of recent inflation and the consequent drop in living standards to come. A weak pound is a big detriment to this country.

And you STILL haven't said anything about the catastrophic prospects for our massive service sector once the labyrinthine EU bureaucracy that doesn't currently apply kicks in.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 23 Oct 17 - 06:00 AM

Iains, can I suggest that you are possibly in denial that the pound has traded at a lower level post the referendum vote than it had previously.

If you are unable, or perhaps unwilling, to perceive that there is nothing more I can add.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 23 Oct 17 - 06:27 AM

Raggytash the pound has followed a natural correction cycle starting way before the vote on June 23 2016, whereas you and your friends try to construct a case to blame the lower exchange rate on the referendum.
The statistics blow your case clean out of the water. If this is not the case why the fixation on how the pound has traded post referendum?
Why fixate on a part of a declining trend that originated way before the vote?
Your argument is both specious and vacuous.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 23 Oct 17 - 06:35 AM

Look at the figures Iains, it's there in black and white for all to see. (just for the pedants I know its blue)

Exchange Rates 2016

Use the cursor to highlight the 23 June 2106 and see what happened in the aftermath.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Oct 17 - 06:42 AM

A view from The Financial Times.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 23 Oct 17 - 06:51 AM

From: Dave the Gnome - PM
Date: 23 Oct 17 - 06:42 AM
A view from The Financial Times.
DtG

Dave, I take it you're a subscriber. That link doesn't work for me.

Cheers
Nigel

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Oct 17 - 07:02 AM

No - I do not support or subscribe to any newspaper. It should let you link to it if you have not viewed anything from the FT for a while. It did with me. I can no longer get to it myself. Probably cookie related. There is an option for a free trial if you are really interested but, to be honest, all we are doing is swapping links with opposing views. Doesn't get anyone anywhere.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Teribus
Date: 23 Oct 17 - 07:09 AM

Raggytash - 23 Oct 17 - 04:45 AM

Would appear to have been dealt with and answered by others - but as you asked:

1. What evidence do you have to support the assertion that prices from other suppliers will be lower.

Perhaps as advised by others you should take a good look and study the prohibitive tariffs that the EU imposes on produce and goods from countries outside the EU. According to EU rules we have to pay those inflated prices at present. Once out of the EU we can buy from wherever we want to without the added EU tariffs. Hence produce and goods from outside the EU will be cheaper. The countries selling produce to the UK will not hike the price WTO rules prevent them doing that, besides they are in the business of trading not in the business of "punishing" any country, especially not for the crime of daring to "leave the EU".

2. Yep, OTHER people are getting THEIR imports at lower costs, great for them. We however are paying MORE for our imports."

Our manufacturing sector has never been busier, that means jobs and wages in the UK.

3. What evidence is there to support the assertion that the EU will still need the extra 11 Billion with the UK withdrawing, their costs will decrease to some extent. (If you have the correct figures please pass them to the UK government, it looks like they could do with your help).

Ehmmmm Raggy the clue came in the phrase "For the gravy train to continue down the track as it is" - which explained means that if the EU wishes to spend as it is currently doing with the income it currently enjoys THEN - "those 9 net contributor states have to find an additional 11 billion" which I believe is roughly the amount of the UK's current net-contribution to the EU's coffers (In the last ten years our net contribution has doubled IIRC. Trends being what they are it, is highly unlikely that in the years moving forward from 2019 that that net-contribution would decrease).


The only saving I see from the UK leaving the EU will be that the EU will no longer have to pay for printing and translation services with regard to the English language which will be dropped as an official EU language, which, as English is the international language of business and trade seems to me to be a remarkably silly thing for them to do.

4. The pound has consistently traded at approx 14-15% lower than before Brexit. Your assertion "While Backwardsman wails about the pound going through the floor (which it has not)" is utter nonsense, quite easily disproved by figures already provided by Nigel on this thread.

The currency fluctuations related to the GBP and the Euro are not outside anything that we have seen before as others have pointed out to you. I restate what I said before The Pound Sterling has NOT gone through the floor - as Backwards incorrectly claimed.

Now onto Shaw's contentions:

Of course if there is no deal the EU loses us as a market in comparison to what exists now. I think very few will willingly pay more for alternative produce and products if the costs of those from the EU increase as markedly as those in your camp suggest. There are perfectly suitable alternatives that would be cheaper than your "beamers", Proseccco and Camembert - but that is a matter of choice. Should Junckers direct that the British be "punished" for leaving the EU, then the member states of the EU will suffer a backlash, if the British public thought it appropriate to boycott produce and goods from South Africa, just see how easy it will be to get them to boycott produce and goods from those who seek to "punish" us for exercising our democratic right, damn right we'll find alternatives, ourselves and the rest of the world will be better off and grateful and the EU will be the poorer for it. They will have to sell to others inside the EU what we used to buy or they have to curb production.

Post-Brexit London will still remain as the largest international financial hub in the world.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 23 Oct 17 - 07:23 AM

From: Raggytash - PM
Date: 23 Oct 17 - 05:21 AM
Prior to Brexit the pound hovered at around the 1.25 to 1.30 euro to the pound mark and had done for almost two and a half years, although it had traded above those figures at about 1.40 euro for a period.
Since Brexit it has fallen to the present 1.12 euro a slight gain on it's lowest figure of 1.08 euro.
(in order to deter the pedants all figure, I acknowledge, are approximate)
Exchange Rate last 5 Years
If anyone wants to dispute these figure please take it up with XE.

I don't think anyone is taking exception to the figures provided by XE, just the way that you manage to misrepresent those figures.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Oct 17 - 07:30 AM

"Of course if there is no deal the EU loses us as a market in comparison to what exists now."

That isn't what you said. Check your post again.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 23 Oct 17 - 07:32 AM

I cannot misrepresent that that is down in black and white for all to see.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Teribus
Date: 23 Oct 17 - 07:45 AM

What I stated - "The UK is one of the EU's best internal customers. The EU loses a market of 65 million people, who will turn to other products from alternative suppliers......"

With regard to future trade between the UK and the EU that is no different from stating - "Of course if there is no deal the EU loses us as a market in comparison to what exists now"

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 23 Oct 17 - 08:14 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash - PM
Date: 23 Oct 17 - 07:32 AM
I cannot misrepresent that that is down in black and white for all to see.

You can, and you do. You have stated that those graphs back your contention that the pound has consistently traded at 15% below its previous levels ever since Brexit. The graph shows no such thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 23 Oct 17 - 08:34 AM

Oh sorry I must mean 14.5%

Whatever, the pound is consistently trading far lower, post referendum, than it was before.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 23 Oct 17 - 09:21 AM

From: Raggytash - PM
Date: 23 Oct 17 - 08:34 AM
Oh sorry I must mean 14.5%
Whatever, the pound is consistently trading far lower, post referendum, than it was before.
14.5% or 15%, whatever.
The problem is your use of 'consistently'. Since the referendum the pound has consistently been trading below its rate immediately prior to the referendum. but not consistently 14.5% lower.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 23 Oct 17 - 09:29 AM

I'm sure that the people at the bottom of the pile are consumed with gratitude at careful consideration of them.

Just think they get a 1% wage increase (if they get one at all) and inflation runs at 3%

No doubt you will argue the toss that they are not 2% out of pocket but just 1.9% or some such.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Oct 17 - 09:58 AM

Nigel, instead of stalking your perceived adversaries in order to spot what you see as inconsistencies (and whilst so doing not really discussing the issues), why not have an advisory word in the shell-like of your comrade Teribus, who's just done the very thing you can't stand yet far more glaringly than any of us? Go on, Nigel - show us that you're not a hypocrite after all.

Anyway, back to the substantive. From the Beeb news today:

The UK risks losing jobs and investment without an urgent Brexit transition deal, Britain's five biggest business lobby groups have warned.

In a joint letter being sent to Brexit Secretary David Davis, the groups including the CBI and Institute of Directors, say time is running out.

The head of the CBI said firms wanted an agreement on the transition period by the end of the year.

A government spokesman said the talks were "making real, tangible progress".

The other lobby groups backing the letter are the British Chambers of Commerce, the Federation of Small Businesses, and the EEF manufacturers' body.

CBI director-general Carolyn Fairbairn told the BBC: "One of the big messages from firms is 'get on with it' on both sides.

"This is real, this is urgent and a transition agreement by the end of the year would help enormously to keep investment and jobs in the country," she said.

Now I'd have thought that the wellbeing of businesses large and small is going to be rather crucial in the next few years. But they're getting more and more nervous. Not confident at all about brexit and almost in panic mode over the current stasis. Whaddya think, Teribus? And what about that service sector, which is going to face multiple bureaucratic barriers once we leave without a good deal? Your bald brave-face statement is just hubris. I suggest you look into what will happen once we're out. No wonder it's all a bit hush-hush on that front at the moment. It could turn out to be the biggest brexit disaster of the lot.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 23 Oct 17 - 10:12 AM

As I've stated before, I'm stalking nobody.
And I read that BBC quote that you give somewhat differently to the way you do.
It seems to be saying "get on with it". And the only people impeding that are the EU and the remainers.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Oct 17 - 10:31 AM

It's amazing how you brexiteers can't see any other side of the argument. WE are blocking the talks by refusing the perfectly reasonable request to make the divorce settlement clear before we get to the nuts and bolts of trade talks. It simply has to be done that way round and there is no reason on earth why it shouldn't be, except that this stupid government of ours simply has to be seen to be standing up to Johnny Foreigner at all costs for fear of the backlash from its right-wing back-benchers and the Farrago brigade. I mean, who won the bloody war anyway? (Cheers, Basil).

If you don't like to be called a stalker, stop stalking. I thought we'd settled that last week but you're at it again. Just tell us your opinions on the issues. Nobody minds being challenged on points of inconsistency but you make that the be-all and end-all, and, pointedly, you do it to your perceived adversaries only, as you've clearly demonstrated today.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Oct 17 - 10:39 AM

While we're at it, perhaps you could tell us how remainers are impeding anything. Remainers in this country have the same democratic rights as anyone else and that includes the right to speak out peacefully and freely about things we don't agree with. It often seems to me that remainers are seen as some kind of uncomfortable inconvenience who should be silenced until we're out. Let me remind you that one of the major tenets of the leave campaign was getting our democracy back. In the light of that, mutterings from brexiteers about remainers impeding or blocking things are nothing if not ironic.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 23 Oct 17 - 10:43 AM

It seems to be saying "get on with it".?

I think it is rather more that that, Nigel. It is saying get on with it and get an agreement about the transition arrangements by the end of the year or risk businesses going elsewhere. Not quite a threat, but getting close to it. And how much credence to give it is also uncertain.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 23 Oct 17 - 10:43 AM

Steve,
You seem incapable of understanding the simple idea that agreeing to make a payment which the EU is either unwilling or incapable of justifying, in order to proceed with negotiations with an EU which has already shown its intransigence, is little better than 'buying a pig in a poke'.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Oct 17 - 11:00 AM

They have to justify the larger amount they are asking for and we have to justify the lower amount we're offering. Both sides stand to gain from a compromise, which is what will eventually happen. We call it "negotiating," Nigel. As ever, the trouble with this weak government, made even weaker by May's disastrous election, is that any sign of compromise will be seen as further weakness by the hawks in her own party and by Ukippers. That's why there's this hold-up, and any other reason you come up with for it means that you're just kidding yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: akenaton
Date: 23 Oct 17 - 11:33 AM

if we stayed in, we would be a captive of the EU with absolutely no leverage at all The armed United States of Europe would be a fact and the United Kingdom only a tiny dissenting mark on the blue and white flag.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Stu
Date: 23 Oct 17 - 11:47 AM

"if we stayed in, we would be a captive of the EU with absolutely no leverage at all"

A statement that ignores the last 40 years of EU membership. We're not going to have any leverage under WTO rules, which is the act of self-destruction Brexiteers seem determined to carry out, unfortunately dragging the rest of us into a mess of their making.

Even MayBot was asking Junker for help over the pudding.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Greg F.
Date: 23 Oct 17 - 11:49 AM

...we would be a captive of the EU...

Yer startin' ta sound like tRUMP, Ake.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 23 Oct 17 - 11:53 AM

From: Steve Shaw - PM
Date: 23 Oct 17 - 11:00 AM
They have to justify the larger amount they are asking for and we have to justify the lower amount we're offering.

I do believe that that is the first time you've accepted that the EU should justify the amount that they claim we owe.
See, negotiation can be rewarding.

I don't see how we can justify the amount we've offered. It's a goodwill offering, close to being in line with two years worth of our current net contributions. We could also justify the Boris option of "We owe nothing"

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Oct 17 - 11:56 AM

"If we stayed in....The armed United States of Europe would be a fact"

No it would not be a fact. We will not agree to it and it can't go ahread without a unanimous vote in favour by all 28 members. That's in the EU constitution. We have blocked it. The only way it can become a fact is by dint of us leaving. Please let me know which part of this you're having difficulty with.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Oct 17 - 12:13 PM

So we've plucked an approximate two-year figure out of the air. Justify that on any basis you can, Nigel. May offered that (and may have secretly offered more) because even she realises that compromise is necessary. If we walk away without a proper negotiated divorce settlement it WILL make trading conditions with the EU much more difficult. The EU is big enough to endure a black hole in its finances if push comes to shove and has a vested interest in demonstrating to its members that leaving comes at a high price (and so it should). She did not make that offer, "goodwill" or not, out of the goodness of her heart. She has a vested interest in paying as little as possible without getting EU backs up. We get that. That's her job. But that isn't zero pounds. The EU negotiators also know that they're not getting 90 billion or anything like it. The main block at the moment is that May is running scared of her own hardliners. We don't know the half of it.

And watch out for those financial institutions uprooting from London to the EU. The devastating consequences of that for our service economy is, well, still a bit under the carpet at the moment.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Oct 17 - 01:07 PM

f we walk away without a proper negotiated divorce settlement it WILL make trading conditions with the EU much more difficult.

Yes, but we will not be tens of billions out of pocket and that will help see us through.

EU parliamentss are lurching to the right, and the far right is on the ascendant.
I would not be seeking ever closer union with them, and I am surprised that our Left are so keen to be in bed with them.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Teribus
Date: 23 Oct 17 - 01:56 PM

Whaddya think, Teribus? Asks Shaw:

Steve Shaw - 23 Oct 17 - 09:58 AM

And posts the following:

"From the Beeb news today:

1: The UK risks losing jobs and investment without an urgent Brexit transition deal, Britain's five biggest business lobby groups have warned.

The UK's negotiating team have been ready, willing and able to negotiate such a deal since the 29th March 2017 - The EU Commissions negotiators HAVE NOT. They, the EU Negotiators, have ignored the EU's own guidelines and rules related to these negotiations.

2: In a joint letter being sent to Brexit Secretary David Davis, the groups including the CBI and Institute of Directors, say time is running out.

What an amazing statement of the plainly and blindingly obvious. I would have thought that the last person in the UK that needs to be told this is David Davis. I wonder if Michel Barnier was copied on the letter?

3: The head of the CBI said firms wanted an agreement on the transition period by the end of the year.

I could send anyone in government a rather long list of things that people might want by the end of the year - doesn't mean that they are going to get their wishes granted. Sounds as though this letter should have gone to Santa Claus. Unfortunately for all concerned these negotiations involve the EU Commission and it is THEY who have dragged their feet, it is THEY who have delayed the process.

4: A government spokesman said the talks were "making real, tangible progress".

They I would suggest are the best placed and best informed to make such a statement.

5: CBI director-general Carolyn Fairbairn told the BBC: "One of the big messages from firms is 'get on with it' on both sides.

"This is real, this is urgent and a transition agreement by the end of the year would help enormously to keep investment and jobs in the country," she said.

Unlike you Shaw (& Co.), Carolyn Fairbairn appears to have hoisted in the fact that it takes two sides to negotiate and two sides to reach an agreement - because of intransigence, inflexibility and a refusal to follow their own guidelines on the part of the EU negotiating teams I do not believe that there is any chance of such an agreement being in place in the CBI's desired time frame.

6: And what about that service sector, which is going to face multiple bureaucratic barriers once we leave without a good deal?

Tell us what multiple bureaucratic barriers the "service sector" will face. IF things are made more difficult it will actually boost the requirement and involvement of those involved in the "service sector", but I suppose having never, ever had any experience of working within the "service sector" you would fail to appreciate that point.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Stu
Date: 23 Oct 17 - 02:29 PM

"Yes, but we will not be tens of billions out of pocket and that will help see us through."

That's the tens of billions we'd loose from the exchequer if we get a deal, but business will loose hundreds of billions and eventually that cost will be picked up by... us if we don't.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Oct 17 - 02:58 PM

"EU Commissions negotiators HAVE NOT. They, the EU Negotiators, have ignored the EU's own guidelines and rules related to these negotiations."

Expand.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Oct 17 - 03:30 PM

The UK will crash out of the EU in a hard Brexit - no agreement, no trade deals with the EU, no single market. I've already pointed out why, but here is the reason why May and her cohorts are so determined to see it through. Nothing to do with what's best for the nation as a whole, everything to do with guarding the wealth of a tiny minority, and ensuring they are able to continue offshoring and otherwise avoiding paying taxes.

This is what the Conservatives have been told to do by the immensely wealthy group who control their policies, and it's the reason Camoron called the referendum in the first place, in the hope that he could placate them and, when the 'Remain' vote won, he could tell them it was no-go. Unfortunately, his plan went Mammaries Skyward and he lost his leverage to persuade them that we must remain - hence his immediate decision to dump the whole stinking heap of shit back on those in his own party who had opposed his Remain campaign. Predictably, however, the spineless buffoon, Johnson, and Gove the Lying Scottish Viper ran for the hills, and we ended up stuck with the Praying Mantis and her cabal of incompetents.

Give yourselves a pat on the back, BrexShitters, you fell for the bullshit, and handed it to the greedy, arrogant bunch on a plate. But don't forget - you're going to hurt just as much as those of us who had the sense to see through the bollocks and vote Remain.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Teribus
Date: 23 Oct 17 - 03:43 PM

EU    Commissions    negotiators    HAVE    NOT.    They,    the    EU    Negotiators,    have    ignored    the    EU's    own    guidelines    and    rules    related    to    these    negotiations

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 23 Oct 17 - 03:47 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovfQjR3iU-A

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 23 Oct 17 - 04:08 PM

For some reason Iains I am not at all surprised by your last contribution.

Sadly, for you and your partners, that is ancient history, the world has moved on.

Britain is no longer the "ruler" of the world, the sun has set on the British Empire, for ever.

I know that some of your "associates" find that hard to understand but that is fact.

Incidentally, on a lighter note, do you know why the sun never set on the "British Empire"





It was merely because God didn't trust the British in the dark.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 23 Oct 17 - 04:41 PM

No empires last forever. It is likely the EU empire will be very brief.
As it requires 4 presidents to run it, it is in a permanent state of confusion. This is despite the Lisbon treaty. The more they try to centralise, the more the periphery unravels. Happy Days!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Oct 17 - 04:59 PM

Our membership of the EU has transformed us from being the perennial sick man of Europe into the fifth strongest economy in the world. All soon to be ditched, as our already-ailing economy demonstrates.

You have simply parroted your remark, Teribus. Show us how the EU have broken their own rules and guidelines. What rules, what guidelines and in what way? Just repeatedly declaring it proves zilch. We don't necessarily believe you, old son.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Teribus
Date: 23 Oct 17 - 05:10 PM

"Our membership of the EU has transformed us from being the perennial sick man of Europe into the fifth strongest economy in the world."

Best laugh I've had all month.

Membership of the EU had very little to do with that - a woman called Margaret Thatcher on the other hand did have rather a great deal to do with us achieving that.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Oct 17 - 05:37 PM

Well, considering she wrecked our manufacturing industry in favour of yuppie spivs, the descendants of whom caused the catastrophic crash in 2008, put unemployment through the roof, wrecked whole communities, reigned over high inflation for ten years, tried to bring in an immoral poll tax and put hundreds of thousands of unemployed on to "incapacity benefit" in order to hide the figures, let's say, to put it kindly, that the jury is decidedly out on your harpy heroine. This country has flourished in the EU for forty years when you look at what was going on before we joined and what is already happening now. Pound sinking, inflation soaring, living standards falling, productivity rubbish, food banks a-plenty, growth way behind the EU... cor, isn't the future bright! 😂

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Oct 17 - 08:42 PM

By the way, Teribus, I'm still waiting to hear which rules and regulations the EU negotiators have broken and how they broke them. Cat got your tongue?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Teribus
Date: 24 Oct 17 - 02:27 AM

Go back to the beginning of this thread and start reading it Shaw.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Teribus
Date: 24 Oct 17 - 04:31 AM

European Council (Art. 50) guidelines for Brexit negotiations

"It will be constructive and strive to find an agreement."

Seen very little of that so far from the EU's negotiators.

"Negotiations under Article 50 TEU will be conducted in transparency and as a single package. In accordance with the principle that nothing is agreed until everything is agreed, individual items cannot be settled separately."

The above is not the manner that the EU negotiators are insisting upon - Is it?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Oct 17 - 04:46 AM

They have refused to discuss trade and borders in flagrant disregard of that rule.
Only money because they can not afford to live as they have become accustomed without our largess. Desperation drives them.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Mr Red
Date: 24 Oct 17 - 05:32 AM

the Confederation of British Industries - you know the guys they are doing it for - have waded in and they need to know a lot of what is happening by Christmas. They may not have 5 year plans, but there is the summer of 2018 well within their budget.

Our inglorious Minister of State for Trade and Investement (Greg Hands) regards their pronouncment as overblown, saying we have WTO regulations anyway. BBC R4 News yesterday.

Geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeze.

The future will judge him, meanwhile an interim appelation? Careless Hands