BS: Post Brexit life in the UK

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 21 Jun 18 - 09:48 AM

EU response to US trade Tariffs

When someone first pointed out the new US tariffs, and blamed them on Theresa may I made the point that we wouldn't be able to deal with them, it would have to be a EU matter.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 20 Jun 18 - 10:55 AM

I have always excused the house of lords on the basis of regarding them as on a par with jurors. It does not matter who they are, their educational background, or perceived standing in society. Their function is to nitpick over detail and presented facts, and unlike a jury they can throw back legislation for an improved draft to be presented.
It is the function that is crucial, not the form.

I cannot see a way of creating a second chamber that would be more egalitarian. There is a sufficiency of failed career politicians in the second chamber already.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Jun 18 - 09:27 AM

I don't defend the manner in which the House of Lords is constituted, but as a point of information hereditary peers account for just 90 out of nearly 800 "lords."

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 20 Jun 18 - 08:50 AM

“From the hills and forests of darkest Britain they came : the halt, the lame, the deaf, the obscure, the senile and the forgotten —the hereditary peers of England united in their determination to use their medieval powers to retain a medieval institution.”

Wonderful! Let us have our rotten boroughs back as well!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 20 Jun 18 - 06:42 AM

Just as well there is nothing of significance going on today's Parliament that could affect the ability of the U.K. to negotiate (if you take one view), or clarify the constitution on the relationship between Parliament and Governement if you take the other)

So we can put all our effort into arguing whose 'beam-in-their-own-eye' is biggest.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Jun 18 - 06:40 AM

The piece dealt in facts only. Juxtapositions having hidden subversive relevance are all in your mind. You should take the Guardian more often, Nigel. Comment is free but facts are sacred.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 20 Jun 18 - 06:21 AM

Steve.
I still see a definite slant (attempt to mislead by what is said, and what is left unsaid)
Perhaps it is your own preconceptions which prevent you from seeing it.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Jun 18 - 03:52 AM

" Expect everyone who isn't in a coma to be wheeled into the House."
Like the beautiful ‘New Statesman’ description of the House of Lords' scuppering of the ‘Capital Punishment Abolition’ Bill in 1956”
“From the hills and forests of darkest Britain they came : the halt, the lame, the deaf, the obscure, the senile and the forgotten —the hereditary peers of England united in their determination to use their medieval powers to retain a medieval institution.”
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Jun 18 - 09:00 PM

There is no slant, Nigel, and certainly no attempt to mislead. I suggest that you're looking at the piece through your usual Daily Mail eyes. If you look at straight factual intormation from a slanted position, you may fail to discern that it's you that's slanted and not the source you're criticising.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 19 Jun 18 - 03:31 AM

From: Steve Shaw - PM
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 01:18 PM
Not clear how giving unadorned factual information is giving a slant...

By appearing to correlate one piece of factual information with a second to which it bears no immediate correlation, as shown in the final line of my comment.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 01:20 PM

As expected, the Lords has just approved a version of Dominic Grieve's amendment so that in the event of no deal, Parliament decides the next step rather than the Government. This will be debated on Wednesday and this time the rebels are not going to be willing to back down with a promise to change the bill to meet their plans " so don't vote against us, please."

Wednesday should be lively. Expect everyone who isn't in a coma to be wheeled into the House.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 01:18 PM

Not clear how giving unadorned factual information is giving a slant...

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 11:27 AM

The Office for Budgetary Responsibility and the Institute for Fiscal Studies don't believe there will be a Brexit Dividend either.

But, of course, the BrexShit Bumpkins are fed up with experts who actually understand these things, and prefer to believe slogans on buses, and the bullshit of proven liars like Bozo, Haddock-Face, The Little Scottish Viper, and Maggie-May.

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/health/2018/06/there-no-brexit-dividend-spend-nhs

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 10:24 AM

I'm guessing that this Guardian is the article Steve means.

The Guardian appears to be adding its usual slant:

What about after the transition period?

The OBR said the UK’s £5bn rebate has already been “spent” ?on domestic priorities and cannot be spent again. The Institute for Fiscal Studies said in its assessment that the remaining £14bn could theoretically be redirected, but the government has already pledged to replace at least some EU spending (for example, farming subsidies) for some years, leaving an £8bn surplus. However, a reduction in GDP of just 1% translates to a fall in tax revenue of more than £8bn.


How much has GDP growth fallen?

The Bank of England said the trend rate of growth for the UK has fallen from around 2.5% to 1.5%, which matches the fall needed to wipe out the Brexit dividend. BoE governor Mark Carney said household incomes after adjusting for inflation were £900 lower than expected before the referendum vote.

The first large paragraph details the effect of a reduction in GDP. The second paragraph equates this with a reduction in the rate of growth of GDP. A 'reduced rise', is still a rise, it is not (except by very strange logic) a fall.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 09:50 AM

There's no brexit dividend. See today's Guardian, among many others. Google "May's NHS 'Brexit dividend' claim draws scepticism and doubt" and scroll down to "quick guide."

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 07:29 AM

Ah, always 'refresh' before posting :(

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 07:26 AM

I don't know if that's an original from you Nigel, but it is an excellent quip. I have already passed it on!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 07:20 AM

Thanks, Jim. Not really mine, but I can't remember where I nicked it from.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 06:33 AM

"I spent half my time putting away childish things"
I think I prefer yours now
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 06:22 AM

"When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. "

When I became a father I found I spent half my time putting away childish things ;)

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 06:02 AM

BBC News just now - the cabinet have been called to 10 Downing Street this morning for an unscheduled meeting, in which they have been informed that taxes must go up.

Brexit Premium anybody?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 05:56 AM

Wot Baccie just said
Sorry if I misunderstood you Nigel - I assumed you were part of Iain's 'leftie" old usual
If not, I was mistaken
I'm not of any faith but I am rather fond of some biblical quotes

"When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. "

About time we all adhered to that one
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 05:33 AM

"And how can you presume to know my political stance?"

There's plenty of evidence, on this forum, in your utterances under your current nom de plume, and under your previous one.

If it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck, it's a duck.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 05:22 AM

Why encourage that sort of mudslinging Nigel?
I thought you were better than that
Jim Caarroll

What 'mudslinging'?
My latest post was pointing out that the term 'leftard' does not appear in the Collins Dictionary (contrary to an earlier claim). It is not a term I use.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 05:15 AM

"I'm always amazed at the way you wear your rightism as a badge of honour while at the same time defending the way Britain did it's bit to suppress the worst examples of your own politics during the War"

The war was a tad before my time, however my father was an RAF pilot commissioned in 1938. What was yours?
And how can you presume to know my political stance?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 05:07 AM

Why encourage that sort of mudslinging Nigel?
I thought you were better than that
Jim Caarroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 04:42 AM

when did 'leftard' become a word? what exactly does it mean?

Collins Dictionary: a term for a person with left-wing political views [a blend of left and retard]
aka loopy left
Hope that helps!

The above may be misleading. I can't find that the word has been used in Collins' dictionaries. Their website shows that it was proposed as a new word in 2016, but is still 'pending investigation'.
Here
It appears from that page that anyone can suggest words for inclusion, even anonymously.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 04:24 AM

"[a blend of left and retard]£"
I'm always amazed at the way you wear your rightism as a badge of honour while at the same time defending the way Britain did it's bit to suppress the worst examples of your own politics during the War
Nazi Germany was the natural product of German industrial capitalism - its victims were the Trades unionists and leftists you despise - thye went to their deaths alongside the Jews, Gypsies and those considered unfit for the new right-wing Germany
You defend the Trumps and Terry Robinsons of this world - the righetset of the right, and you gloat when the EU is threatened by neo-Fascist politicians
Historically, the left in Britain and Europe were among those who stood up to the monsters who tried to turn the world into your world
I have little problem when people holding your views sneer at my politics - I wouldn't have even if you do it with any skill, which, of course, you don't
Thank you for confirming that I've chosen the right side
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 04:08 AM

when did 'leftard' become a word? what exactly does it mean?

Collins Dictionary: a term for a person with left-wing political views [a blend of left and retard]
aka loopy left
Hope that helps!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 04:07 AM


There was a single referendum, and it was won by those who voted for 'Brexit'. Let's just get on with it.

I have no problem with the first sentence. However, the second relies on an understanding of what the 'it' we are getting on with is. For example, I have no idea if you believe(d) your 'Leave' vote was also a vote to leave the Galileo project, even if it may cost us billions to build our own. If you think it did - which I don't know - neither of us has any idea if that is what other people who voted leave intended. And we could make the same point for (probably) hundreds of other points of detail.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 17 Jun 18 - 07:53 PM

From: Backwoodsman - PM
Date: 17 Jun 18 - 04:56 PM
Teribus, I fully understand the difference between 'those who voted' and 'the population'. However, my assertation is perfectly, absolutely correct - a greater number of not only the U.K. population, but also the U.K. electorate, did not express a wish to leave the EU in the Referendum than those who did.
You really must stop disputing what I did not say, it's absolutely pointless.

Once again this misleading comment that:
a greater number of not only the U.K. population, but also the U.K. electorate, did not express a wish to leave the EU in the Referendum than those who did.

An even greater number of the UK population, and of the UK electorate, did not vote to remain.
Whether you look at the percentage of those who voted 'Leave' as a percentage of those who voted, or a percentage (of the population) who voted 'Leave' compared to the percentage (of the population) who voted 'remain'. the outcome will still be roughly 52 to 48.
Anyone who assumes that all those who didn't vote would have voted to remain is playing with figures which they have no chance of justifying.

There was a single referendum, and it was won by those who voted for 'Brexit'. Let's just get on with it.
Those who chose not to vote, for whatever reason, had the option to vote, but ignored their franchise. They ignore their franchise to vote, we can ignore their wishes (which we will never know) about what the outcome of the vote could have been.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Jun 18 - 04:56 PM

Teribus, I fully understand the difference between 'those who voted' and 'the population'. However, my assertation is perfectly, absolutely correct - a greater number of not only the U.K. population, but also the U.K. electorate, did not express a wish to leave the EU in the Referendum than those who did.

You really must stop disputing what I did not say, it's absolutely pointless.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: peteglasgow
Date: 17 Jun 18 - 04:51 PM

when did 'leftard' become a word? what exactly does it mean?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 17 Jun 18 - 04:39 PM

"If it wasn't such a tragedy for the large majority of the population who didn't vote Leave, it would be absolutely hilarious."

I think we have demonstrated the stupidity of this argument frequently already. The remainiacs that don't get it are becoming exceedingly boring.Those enfranchised, that could be bothered to vote, voted in the majority to leave. Not a particularly difficult concept to grasp I would have thought? But a minority of loopy leftards refuse to accept democracy, rather like many democrats over the pond.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Jun 18 - 03:44 PM

"As negotiation is still ongoing I cannot say with any degree of certainty what the possibility is of damage to the UK economy following Brexit. Nor can I put a value on the damage (if any).
Also I cannot put a hard cash value on the future benefits that I believe we will see once we are able to trade with the rest of the world on terms which we negotiate, rather than terms negotiated by the EU with a view to protecting their internal suppliers.
I can, however, state that it is my belief (shared by others) that the UK will be quite capable of dealing with world markets once we have escaped from the EU. We will also be responsible for our own laws.

Persons who are supposed to have a much greater knowledge of economics than I have have given their predictions. Those included predictions for the immediate post-brexit-vote period of massive increased unemployment, a £60bn hole in the UK's budget, and an immediate punitive budget to get us out of trouble.
Are you surprised that, having decided to ignore 'Project Fear' the first time, I am happy to see Brexit going ahead, and see nothing to fear from our current negotiations."

And there it is, gentlemen, The Confession of a Wankpuffin - one of 17 million Wankpuffins - who voted for nothing, just a daft idea with absolutely no pre-determined plan, no hard facts, nothing concrete to offer, just a string of cliches and sound-bites, no clue of what the effects of the final outcome would be, and led by their noses by a bunch of charlatans who were doing the bidding of a tiny immensely-wealthy minority who wish to avoid the EU Tax-Avoidance Regulations coming into effect in May 2019, who bamboozled them with racist, xenophobic, nationalist drivel about 'Take Back Control' and 'control immigration', and who shat their boxers and ran for the hills when the awful truth that they'd actually won became clear the morning after the Referendum.

If it wasn't such a tragedy for the large majority of the population who didn't vote Leave, it would be absolutely hilarious.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 17 Jun 18 - 03:18 PM

as negotiation is still ongoing I cannot say with any degree of certainty what the possibility is of damage to the UK economy following Brexit.


Naturally, as the future is always unknown . And the past is often disputed. And the present is always confused and uncertain. We live in a world where requiring a degree of certainty is over ambitious most of the time.

So we have to live with judgements and balances of probability. We can do a little better by adding some assumptions. If the EU concedes on the NI border then estimate1; if the UK concedes a border in the sea then estimate2. And so on.

As long as we accept these are estimates, not accurate glimpses of the future, there is a lot that can be done.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 17 Jun 18 - 02:41 PM

As negotiation is still ongoing I cannot say with any degree of certainty what the possibility is of damage to the UK economy following Brexit. Nor can I put a value on the damage (if any).
Also I cannot put a hard cash value on the future benefits that I believe we will see once we are able to trade with the rest of the world on terms which we negotiate, rather than terms negotiated by the EU with a view to protecting their internal suppliers.
I can, however, state that it is my belief (shared by others) that the UK will be quite capable of dealing with world markets once we have escaped from the EU. We will also be responsible for our own laws.

Persons who are supposed to have a much greater knowledge of economics than I have have given their predictions. Those included predictions for the immediate post-brexit-vote period of massive increased unemployment, a £60bn hole in the UK's budget, and an immediate punitive budget to get us out of trouble.
Are you surprised that, having decided to ignore 'Project Fear' the first time, I am happy to see Brexit going ahead, and see nothing to fear from our current negotiations.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Jun 18 - 02:35 PM

"Just as Brexit means Brexit."
That seems to mean different things to different advocates Nigel
Perhaps when they get their act together they'll impart the true meaning to the rest of us
Meanwhile, we'll just have to sit back and enjoy the circus (and hope the tent doesn't catch fire)
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 17 Jun 18 - 02:14 PM

I see. So you suggest you cannot make a judgement on whether damage in the first say six months after the leaving date is almost vanishing unlikely or almost certain.

Many people had a problem with ake, but I thought his position has some honesty. As I understand it was that leaving would cause all sorts of problems - perhaps financial, perhaps mass unemployment and so on - but, like surgery, it was a necessary pain to go through to be better off in the long run. That, to me was always a more sensible position than refusing to accept any downside, or refusing to face up it. Rather it said "There is a price to pay - this is the price - I will pay it."

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 17 Jun 18 - 01:47 PM

So you are sticking to "may' for the first part? Most of remainers think 'will' would fit better. But no matter, we can still ask if 'may' means

- highly unlikely to
- unlikely to
- as likely as not
- more likely than not
- very likely to.

May means may (modal verb expressing possibility). Just as Brexit means Brexit. If I had intended another meaning to it I could have used on of the phrases you offer.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 17 Jun 18 - 01:26 PM

I've just watched the Aquarius refugee ship dock in Spain being turned awy by right wing governments and being accepted by Spain's Socialists

"The Maltese government is described as a social-democratic party."

Described maybe - it's policy towards immigrants belies that
It sure ain't socialist - closer to May than it is to Corbyn - New Labour maybe

So they're refusing to accept the refugees because of their political affiliations, and you can tell what their political affiliations are by watching how they deal with the refugees.
That seems a rather circular form of logic.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 17 Jun 18 - 01:12 PM

So you are sticking to "may' for the first part? Most of remainers think 'will' would fit better. But no matter, we can still ask if 'may' means

- highly unlikely to
- unlikely to
- as likely as not
- more likely than not
- very likely to.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Jun 18 - 12:56 PM

"The Maltese government is described as a social-democratic party."
Described maybe - it's policy towards immigrants belies that
It sure ain't socialist - closer to May than it is to Corbyn - New Labour maybe

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 17 Jun 18 - 12:31 PM

"to ensure we come out the other side with as little damage as possible"
That seems to be an acceptance that there will be damage" Nigel
Was't that a long time coming - though welcome, now it's arrived
Jim Carroll

I've never denied that Brexit may cause damage to the UK, or to our economy. I just believe that the benefits to be had will outweigh the costs (damages).

"Good to see the remainiacs having so much fun!"
I've just watched the Aquarius refugee ship dock in Spain being turned awy by right wing governments and being accepted by Spain's Socialists
It's hard not to remember that Brexit is based on keeping such needy people out, especially when you read the childishly snite comments here
Puts all this into perfect context, as far as I'm concerned
Jim Carroll

The Aquarius was refused by Italy and Malta. The Maltese government is described as a social-democratic party.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Jun 18 - 08:25 AM

"Good to see the remainiacs having so much fun!"
I've just watched the Aquarius refugee ship dock in Spain being turned awy by right wing governments and being accepted by Spain's Socialists
It's hard not to remember that Brexit is based on keeping such needy people out, especially when you read the childishly snite comments here
Puts all this into perfect context, as far as I'm concerned
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 17 Jun 18 - 07:52 AM

Good to see the remainiacs having so much fun!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Jun 18 - 06:31 AM

Bugger, missed 5,200!

Bear in mind that the Tories are busy getting the NHS ready for privatisation. Around 10% is already privatised, more is to come. I wonder whether the £20 billion will go to the non-privatised, or the privatised, part of the NHS?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 17 Jun 18 - 06:27 AM

That's hardly to do with Brexit, is it? I gather the figures of attendees were around 14,000 which is not large by festival standards but is somewhat more than George Freeman's Festival of Ideas.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Jun 18 - 06:23 AM

Very interesting, Teribus. But WTF does that have to do with 'Post Brexit life in the U.K.'? Sweet Fuck All, of course, it's just your standard obfuscation and Extreme-Right bollocks.

Anything to say about the promise on the side of the bus which you and your easily-bamboozled BrexShitter mates claimed didn't exist, but which That Horrible Woman is now pretending she's fulfilling?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 17 Jun 18 - 06:07 AM

Plenty of seats at the hotel Corbynista

https://www.thesun.co.uk/video/news/jeremy-corbyns-labour-live-festival-flops-with-empty-venues/