BS: Post Brexit life in the UK

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 May 18 - 09:15 AM

*Sigh* What did I tell you about Iains at six o'clock yesterday evening.... :-(

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 22 May 18 - 09:03 AM

OK, so your first link is to the Economic Voice is basically a blog, your second and third links are to Guido Fawkes (again) another blog.

They do not inspire any degree of confidence.

Can you really not come up with anything better?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 22 May 18 - 08:47 AM

and they just keep coming!

https://order-order.com/2018/04/20/uk-tech-investment-surges-115/
Same terms and conditions apply as above.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 22 May 18 - 08:44 AM

snigger, snigger!

https://order-order.com/2018/05/15/barniers-lost-space-galileo/
Now to help the more simple minded among us comment on the content, not the origin. Got it?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 22 May 18 - 08:34 AM

https://www.economicvoice.com/bank-of-england-research-finally-accepts-immigration-causes-lower-wages/

Old but still one in the eye for remoaners!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 May 18 - 08:11 AM

Four Ulster Parties have come together and agreed that there should be no hard border and that Britain should remain in the Single Market
This means th DUP no longer has a majority - it seems Maggie May threw away the Billion bribe !!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 22 May 18 - 08:03 AM

A further extract:

"The Bank of England governor gave MPs a clear reminder of the cost of the 2016 EU referendum today, by warning that households are £900 worse off today than expected.

During his testimony to the Treasury Committee, Mark Carney explained that the UK economy is currently 1% smaller than expected two years ago. That’s despite the world economy, and particularly the eurozone, growing faster than forecast since then.

According to Carney, if you adjust for the stronger global economy and the UK government’s fiscal easing, the UK is actually around 1.75% smaller, perhaps even 2%, than you might expected today.

That has a real impact on families and individuals across the country.

As Carney puts it:

If you map it onto household incomes, real household incomes are about £900 lower than we forecast, which is a lot of money.

Some of this loss can clearly be ascribed to Brexit. Business investment has been up to 4% weaker than forecast -- as firms have been hit by uncertainty over Britain’s future trading relationships.

Households have suffered by the drop in real incomes (which turned negative last year), due to the plunge in sterling after the referendum. The weaker pound drove up inflation, meaning salaries and pensions didn’t go as far in the shops.

As Carney puts it:

“There are Brexit effects that come through”

But, the governor did also cite Britain’s ongoing productivity problems - partly due to weak investment, but also due to a series of wider issues that can’t be pinned on the Brexit vote.

In conclusion, Carney warned:

“In the short term, over the last year and a half, there has been an impact relative to what we would have expected, even with some pretty good tailwinds on the back of this economy.”"

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 22 May 18 - 08:00 AM

Those of us on the Remain side of this discussion have for some time said that people in general were already worse off. This suggestion has now been ratified by Mark Carney, Governor of the Back of England.

"Mark Carney from the Bank of England has just confirmed that household incomes are now £900 lower than forecast just before the EU Referendum. Can't remember that being written on the side of that red bus!"

Extract from Todays Guardian.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 22 May 18 - 07:58 AM

The scheme has been under continuous review since first being introduced. Tagging brexit onto it is simply scaremongering. To date
French labour practises(or lack of them) have created major problems.
I have no doubt when Britain no longer contributes to the CAP then French farmers will block the tunnel with shiny, new, highly subsidised tractors that everyone else in Europe pays for! Then we will need a huge carpark ready.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 22 May 18 - 07:48 AM

It is certainly the government's claim that the timing of this is nothing to do with Brexit and the fact that the aim is to have it all ready by Brexit day could indeed be pure coincidence.

But those advocates for remain, the Daily Mail and the Express don't think so.

Whether that date is just coincidence or not, the government does intend to have plans in place to cope with any issues that arise in the initial days.

For my part, I think that is no bad thing. Better to be prepared and discover you don't need it, than to be unprepared.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 22 May 18 - 05:42 AM

Operation stack has been under continuous review since first introduced in 1987. Similar schemes are in existence for other major ports.
A coned contraflow system has been trialled on the 10.5 miles (16.9 km) section between Ashford and Maidstone, to relieve the pressure on the A20, but it was costly and slow to arrange, taking two days to set up and two days to remove. Highways England have announced a plan to use quick movable barriers to set up a contraflow so that two lanes can be maintained.
Use of Manston Airport
Use of part of the car park at Ebbsfleet International railway station to temporarily park/queue up to 1,000 lorries
In July 2016 the Department for Transport announced that a new lorry park for 3,600 vehicles was to be built to the north of junction 11 of the M20, with new access from the eastbound motorway between junctions 10 and 11 at Stanford West, with completion expected by Summer 2017. However, in November 2017 the Department announced that "environmental obligations" had delayed this option and, instead, a linear lorry park along the centre of the M20, separated by traffic barriers, was under consideration.
No mention of brexit in any of these considerations. To date French industrial action has created the biggest headache and displayed the inadequacy of the existing scheme, hence the search for better alternatives.
Similar schemes operate at Stranraer and Felixstowe. Surprisingly Immingham, the UK biggest port, appears to have no emergency parking scheme publicised.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 May 18 - 05:40 AM

"I can well understand why Keith loses his patience with you four mudrats."
Dou yoyu not see the utter stupidity of accusing people being bullying and insulting with a statement like this
Your little team is as abusing and bullying as anybody on this forum - your incessant stream of insults tends to make you the leader of the pack
It really is time you grew up and got a grip Iains
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 May 18 - 04:53 AM

Is it the time of year, time of month or are your hemorrhoids playing up Iains?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 22 May 18 - 04:36 AM

Yes, Iains, operation stack dates back several years. But the announcement being discussed was yesterday.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 22 May 18 - 04:36 AM

Indeed!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 May 18 - 04:12 AM

Oh dear.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 22 May 18 - 04:02 AM

" Your unforced and provocative reference to me in this thread appears to speak volumes about your inclination to moody instability. Pity."
Is this shaw the scientist, ex teacher, former union activist or bullshit artist making the diagnosis? Is the conclusion fact, or merely whimsy? We all need to know these things as your multiple personas create a considerable challenge for us to determine whether to interpret or simply ignore your multitudinous posts.
I suggest you take your cudgel up with raggedytash, he is the one insisting on links, as is jimmie with his asinine statement about cherrypicking. Some of you demand links, some of you think it beneath you(because you can't) A little consistency is needed, doncha think?

I can well understand why Keith loses his patience with you four mudrats.
When faced with logic you all counter attack by attempting to bully. I regard that as a major character defect y'all need to work on.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 May 18 - 03:42 AM

DMcG, the original source makes no reference or allusion to Brexit.
That was just a bit of spin put on by the BBC journalist.
I do not find it in any way relevant to our discussion.

I am away for a couple of days so if you want to ignore me again you will have to wait, unless you ignore this.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 22 May 18 - 03:42 AM

https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2017-10-25/debates/970D8709-C6B0-4A6D-8608-560CB7EB80A6/OperationStackLorryParkingInKent

You can gain a lot by knowing the precise source (which Iains should have given in the first instance

Howsabout HANSARD. NOW LOOK AT THE DATE!
You remoaners are a tad behind the curve on this one. Not for the first time either!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 22 May 18 - 02:13 AM

I said it would be interesting to see who reacted how to the M20 plans. So far there is no comment here from the Brexit supporters (a link to the official statement is indeed welcome, but is not a comment upon it.)

In the media, both the Express and the Mail have described it as a consequence of Brexit.
The Guardian, naturally does so as well. My original post was from the BBC and also made the Brexit link, but I have not found a fuller article there or on the Independent.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 May 18 - 07:36 PM

Links are beside the point
You presented a figure desugned to mislead - pretty much as your Government works
My observation on your not linking it was just brown sauce on the chip butty and it was handy to use to put your tame parrot in its place.
Do you intend to qualify your dismissal of the Six Countries - you know the ones - the mob that stand between Maggie May-Fly and defeat in The House?

Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 May 18 - 06:00 PM

Er, excuse me, please. Points I make here are supported by my own arguments, right or wrong. I often refer to sources I've used, not in blue links, but nonetheless referred to. Not only that, Iains, if I use a source at all I use it to support my argument and extensively refer to it. On a good number of occasions you have simply scattergunned links here without referring to them in your post at all, routinely from right-wing sources (your privilege, of course, but very noticeable nonetheless), and you've had it pointed out to you several times that your links actually undermine your own arguments, apparently demonstrating that you haven't really read them.

We all have our own ways of contributing to discussions on this forum. I prefer to give my own opinions, generally speaking, rather than rely on sources that I can't even be arsed to comment on. I'm not sure that you can say the same. Yiu and I have not fallen out for a good number of weeks. Your unforced and provocative reference to me in this thread appears to speak volumes about your inclination to moody instability. Pity.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 21 May 18 - 05:35 PM

What on earth have you been imbibing? Even by your standards your latest offering is pathetic. Do you actually know how a valid argument is constructed?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 21 May 18 - 04:42 PM

Absolute bollocks Iains.

If you are so unsure of your sources and their contents, and perhaps are afraid if other people reading them, then maybe you should be more careful in the ones you choose.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 21 May 18 - 04:38 PM

Raggytash you know perfectly well why Shaw was brought into the equation. He boasts he cannot do links and you say nothing. Yet you chastise me for omitting a link(a rare occurrence for me) I think your little mates resort to cherry picking ,not I. I prefer to let the facts stand for themselves. I know you hang on Shaw;s shirt tails but it is embarrassing that you make it so obvious. Shame on you!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 21 May 18 - 04:27 PM

Why bring Steve Shaw into the equation?

It is not him I'm discussing this matter with, it is yourself.

If you are confident of your sources you should be able to link to them so that the other people can ensure that the words you have quoted are not merely "cherry picked".

It has been known to happen!!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 21 May 18 - 04:09 PM

"You can gain a lot by knowing the precise source (which Iains should have given in the first instance)"


But, but, but matey shaw has never knowingly given a link in 19620 posts. Do I detect any criticism directed to him. No of course not!
Birds of a feather, packrats and all that!


https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/foreign-direct-investment
Now if you go 2 lines below the bar chart you can see a box marked max.
Hit that and you can access graphical data from 1995 to near present.
You can see since 2000 the graph has jumped all over the place so taking short time periods and trying to determine a trend is rather pointless
Rather like the gnomes last pathetic little jibe.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 May 18 - 03:29 PM

"You could read them!"
You are an eejit Keith
He named the company and selected the most favorable figure to his argument
He did not to likk to it and hoped nobody else would seek out the true position - just as you do (except, of course, you often bother to even do that)
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 May 18 - 01:36 PM

Looks like you are trying your best to get this thread closed as well, Iains. Not going how you would like? I suppose you will be blaming others.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 May 18 - 01:25 PM

but I would like to know for sure that Iains is using that particular article.

The first sentences appear in his post. You could read them!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 May 18 - 01:23 PM

"but I would like to know for sure that Iains is using that particular article."
Scan a line and google it - that's what comes up - simples

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 21 May 18 - 01:19 PM

Jim, as I'm sure you realise I ignore all post from the troll.

I am grateful for your interjection but I would like to know for sure that Iains is using that particular article. You can gain a lot by knowing the precise source (which Iains should have given in the first instance)

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 May 18 - 01:10 PM

Here is the original source. You always say you prefer that DMcG.
https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/road-haulage-update-21-may-2018

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 21 May 18 - 12:42 PM

From the BBC live site: a good one here.
=========
Government draws up plans to park lorries on M20 in event of post-Brexit customs delays at Dover
The Department for Transport has put out an interesting, Brexit-related ministerial statement today. It says that the government has drawn up plans to park lorries on one lane of the M20 in the event of there being “serious disruption to cross-Channel transport”.
The ministerial statement, which has been issued in the name of the transport minister Jesse Norman, does not specify what this “serious disruption” might be, and of course there have been serious hold-ups at Dover before, triggered by strike action on the French side, which led to the development of Operation Stack, an emergency procedure for parking lorries on the M20. But it does say the new system will be available “from early 2019” - which, conveniently, is when the UK will leave the EU and when a no deal Brexit (which the government wants to avoid, but cannot absolutely rule out) would cause customs chaos at the Channel ports.

======

It will interesting to see who thinks this is nothing to with Brexit, who thinks it is just a sensible preparation, who thinks both simultaneously, and who would rather not talk about it, thanks very much.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 May 18 - 12:06 PM

"YOU GAVE THE LINK JIM!"
Yes Keith - after Iains had omitted to do so and pasted a half-truth (by accident, of course)
Mind your own business
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 May 18 - 12:00 PM

Jim,
or have you attempted to explain your half truth about your unlinked figures (or why you didn't link them)

YOU GAVE THE LINK JIM!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 May 18 - 11:32 AM

"Run out of anything sensible to say so resort to bigotry and insult."
No bigorty - no insult, just a reply, which you have failed to offer
Nor have you attempted to explain your half truth about your unlinked figures (or why you didn't link them)
Brexit was sold to the public by sleight of hand such as that demonstrated by you
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 May 18 - 11:06 AM

Rag,
Iains perhaps would be be kind enough to provide a source for your figures at 06.17AM

Jim gave it at 06:36 AM.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 21 May 18 - 10:56 AM

"I know I only gave a partial quote Nigel, that is why unlike some people I provided a link to the article."

Iains perhaps would be be kind enough to provide a source for your figures at 06.17AM

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 21 May 18 - 06:49 AM

"What a belligerent Colonial-type attitude"

Run out of anything sensible to say so resort to bigotry and insult. A typical remainer. Thank you for giving substance to my previous post.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 May 18 - 06:47 AM

"At the moment Northern Ireland is part of the UK."
A stupid statement and even more stupid to link it to an English County
Britain's minority Government is now relying on support from the Appalling DUP which is under siege over a public spending scandal, which stands to lose power due to the shift in population and is in direct opposition to any idea that there should be a border between the Six counties and mainland UK
The Peace Process has been placed in the balance over the border issue, so should Britain lose support of the North Brexit will co floating up the Swanee faster than Colonel Sanders Riverboat
What a belligerent Colonial-type attitude
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 21 May 18 - 06:44 AM

Thanks, Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 21 May 18 - 06:42 AM

The reality is, Iains, is that the figures you are quoting are based on quarters and the original article was annual. I haven't found the corresponding annual figures, so I can't comment further than saying comparing results over different periods is a dangerous practice.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 May 18 - 06:36 AM

""The reality is"
The reality is that you have chosen the figures most convenient to your position and carefully omiteed to mention WHAT HAS HAPPENED SINCE
Little wonder you don't bother to link your claims
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 21 May 18 - 06:35 AM

At the moment Northern Ireland is part of the UK. As yet they have had no vote on a possible unification with the south. Therefore to highlight their hypothetical preferences is as ridiculous as mooting Surrey or Sussex for an Independant vote vis-à-vis remaining in the EU.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 May 18 - 06:22 AM

From this morning's (London) Times
Jim Carroll

FEWER NORTHERN IRISH WOULD OPT FOR BREXIT IN NEW POLL, STUDY FINDS
Michael McHugh
Northern Ireland would vote more strongly to remain in the EU if there was another Brexit poll, a study has suggested.
A total of 69 per cent would favour Remain if there was another referendum compared with 56 per cent in the result two years ago, the UK in a Changing Europe project said.
Catholics were more likely to support a united Ireland if there was a “hard exit” in which the UK left the customs union and single market.
The Irish border is one of the most vexed questions facing negotiators who aim to strike a deal by autumn, before Britain’s withdrawal from the EU next year.
Brendan O’Leary, a professor of political science at the University of Pennsylvania who also holds a visiting position at Queen’s University Belfast, said: “Our results show that if there was another referendum people in Northern Ireland would vote more strongly to remain in the EU.
“The proportion wanting to Remain has risen since the 2016 referendum as more people have become aware of the possible costs and inconveniences of leaving the EU, as citizens and as employees or employers.”
The survey was carried out for the British Economic and Social Research Council, which is funding the UK in a Changing Europe project. The initiative aims to serve as an authoritative, non-partisan and impartial reference point for those looking for information, insights and analysis about UK-EU relations that stands aside from politics surrounding the debate.
The survey found that a total of 28 per cent of Catholics would vote for a united Ireland if the UK changed its mind and remained in the EU while 53 per cent of Catholics would vote for a united Ireland if there was a hard exit in which the UK left the customs union and single market. One in five Catholics found the possible use of cameras at the Irish border “almost impossible to accept” and nearly one in ten Catholics, 9 per cent, would support cameras being vandalised.
There were strong expectations that protests against checks at the Irish border or between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK would quickly become violent. There was also substantial support for a Brexit that would largely eliminate the need for any North-South or east-west border checks, namely for the UK as a whole to remain in the customs union and single market. A total of 61 per cent of the population favoured the UK as a whole remaining in the customs union and single market.
John Garry, a professor of political behaviour at Queen’s University, said: “We find Catholics and Protestants most prefer the option that would avoid the need for any new barriers on borders. Either in the Irish Sea or across Ireland. They want the UK as a whole to stay in the customs union and single market. However,-what may surprise people is the extent to which Catholics oppose all borders within these islands.”

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 21 May 18 - 06:17 AM

The collapse in company registrations mirrors the reluctance of foreign companies to invest in the UK either by building new factories or buying UK businesses. OECD figures show that foreign direct investment into the UK tumbled in 2017 by 90% following a bumper year in 2016!

Garbage as usual by remoaners! Just shows the danger of relying on the Gruniard.
The reality is

Foreign Direct Investment in the United Kingdom increased by 8667 GBP Million in the fourth quarter of 2017. Foreign Direct Investment in the United Kingdom averaged 12366.23 GBP Million from 1987 until 2017, reaching an all time high of 82539 GBP Million in the third quarter of 2005 and a record low of -44536 GBP Million in the second quarter of 2009.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 May 18 - 05:56 AM

I'll not deny that, John. I was typing in the middle of a sneezing fit and me eyes went all blurry...

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 21 May 18 - 05:51 AM

"I have a feeling that there is no moral high ground here to be claimed. It's an illusion."

Or, more accurately, a delusion.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 May 18 - 05:37 AM

Well, I suppose you can CLAIM the moral high ground if you "win" a poll. Unfortunately for your case, that also kind of means that the moral high ground shifts from Tory to Labour to coalition to Tory/DUP when we have elections. Additionally, 38% of the electorate claiming the moral high ground on the basis of one yes-no question on a scrap of paper presented to a largely ignorant country? Really? Finally, can you demonstrate that you won the moral high ground after your "side" told the electorate the unvarnished truth about what brexit really means for the future of this country, and did not use any lies on buses or racist posters on billboards to make its case?

I have a feeling that there is no moral high ground here to be claimed. It's an illusion.