BS: Post Brexit life in the UK

Subject: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Stu
Date: 27 Sep 17 - 07:07 AM

Bombardier: May 'bitterly disappointed' as US tariff puts jobs at risk


Here in the UK we're getting a little taste of life after we've left the EU following El Trumpo's decision to slap a 219% tariff on Bombardier, so jeopardising 4,000 jobs in the North of Ireland. More to the point, the government actually played this deal straight down the line, landed it fairly and squarely but still ordinary working people might suffer because of the whim of a fat orange idiot. Without influence as part of the worlds largest trading block, we're just back to being a small island with an over-inflated opinion of itself and at the mercy of the likes of Trump.

This is our world now.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Sep 17 - 07:10 AM

We are still full members of the EU so this dispute has nothing to do with Brexit.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jack Campin
Date: 27 Sep 17 - 07:26 AM

We won't have the EU as an alternative market, that's what it's got to do with it - if there's a comparable product from an EU manufacturer, that's what EU airlines will buy.

The point of Brexit is to make the UK a dependency of the US, and this tariff shows how the US treats its dependencies.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Sep 17 - 07:44 AM

"The point of Brexit is to make the UK a dependency of the US, and this tariff shows how the US treats its dependencies"

Now where the hell did that come from? I thought and believe that the point of Brexit was to open up avenues to the developing world, of course a positive trade deal with the US would be great and in the interests of both countries.
There are quite a few points to Brexit, not least the control of how many people come here and the necessity to train our own people when the parasitic economic policy of "Free movement" is abandoned.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jack Campin
Date: 27 Sep 17 - 07:54 AM

I thought and believe that the point of Brexit was to open up avenues to the developing world, of course a positive trade deal with the US would be great and in the interests of both countries.

You thought wrong. The point of it was to retain the tax fiddles being used by the mega-rich (threatened after 2019 by EU tax harmonization rules) and sneak in a Nazi-style enabling law to make a wholesale bonfire of all the progressive legislation created in the last 200 years.

No new trade deal with non-EU countries is on the horizon, and several countries (Australia, |Japan, New Zealand for three) have recently snubbed the UK to make deals with the EU instead. If the US was interested in a "positive trade deal" this prohibitive tariff wouldn't have been imposed. They're treating the UK as another Honduras.

But then you already knew that. A fascist banana republic isn't likely to go after people torturing dogs for money.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 27 Sep 17 - 08:35 AM

A loss of jobs in UK if this happens, but let's just add a few facts.
Bombardier Transportation is the rail equipment division of the Canadian firm Bombardier Inc. Its headquarters are in Berlin.

It would be just as easy for Canada or Germany to have prevented this work being done in UK. And, the withdrawal may be America 'getting at' UK, or Germany, or Canada.

And, despite the opening comment, this is happening while we are part of the EU trading bloc.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 27 Sep 17 - 08:46 AM

Don't look so sad, I know it's over. But life goes on, and this old world will keep on turning.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Sep 17 - 09:16 AM

"Don't look so sad, I know it's over."
A littl smug and ostrich like when you consider there are 900,000 Brits living nd working in Europe who now stand to sent packing - at least 30,000 of them are drawing dole
Bombardier is merely a tiny tip of a very large iceberg
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Stu
Date: 27 Sep 17 - 09:40 AM

I know it's happening whilst we're still part of the EU. Doh.

That is not the point. The point is we will be vulnerable to these sort of punitive measures from our new trading partners because as a lone country outside of the EU we have little clout.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Ed.
Date: 27 Sep 17 - 10:01 AM

You might care to read this article, Nigel...

Brexiters are being naive over US trade

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Stu
Date: 27 Sep 17 - 10:01 AM

When Bush put up the steel tariffs threatening UK jobs the WTO ruled against them the US totally ignored the ruling (clue: they don't care). Then the EU came in to back us up, threatened tariffs on US imports and hey presto! Bush backed down.

This collective bargaining is gone, and expecting the EU to back us up now when our incompetent government is flailing around in the Brexit negations and royally pissing johnny foreigner off, is either being a tad naive or wilfully ignorant.

Nope, we've taken back control and are on our own. Triffic, isn't it?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 27 Sep 17 - 10:54 AM

From: Ed. - PM
Date: 27 Sep 17 - 10:01 AM
You might care to read this article, Nigel...
Brexiters are being naïve over US trade

Okay, I've read that.
It seems this is triggered because of disputes between USA & Canada (something I suggested above).
It is also clear that the arguments about relative market size are exactly the same ones that those in favour of Brexit have been making about the future EU/UK trade position.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Sep 17 - 11:09 AM

"But then you already knew that. A fascist banana republic isn't likely to go after people torturing dogs for money."


Would the moderators show just how unbiased they are by deleting this disgraceful slur.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Sep 17 - 11:38 AM

"how unbiased they are by deleting this disgraceful slur."
You have hurled every insult imaginable at people who disagree with you - your lates offering in defence of a church that has systematically covered facilitated child rape is that, because I (from a Catholic family surrounded by Catholic neighbours) hate Catholics and persecute their religion
I have no intention of taking this any further but if you can't take it, don't dish it out
End of story
Any chance you're going to respond to the likely influx if British refugees from Europe Nigel?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Sep 17 - 11:59 AM

Jim you may be able to countenance lying, but I am not. I do not "torture dogs for money" or for any other reason. Neither do I know any greyhound people who do so, these animals are extremely valuable and lovable, the sport is extremely well regulate.
Mr Campin like most of the Anti Greyhound Racing brigade is talking through his arse.

This topic has nothing to do with the thread, but as an owner and trainer, I have been obliged to defend myself against the slur.

Mod....please delete this after dealing with Mr Campin.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Stu
Date: 27 Sep 17 - 12:15 PM

Look, could you two get a room please? Or at least take your lover's spat elsewhere.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Sep 17 - 12:17 PM

"Look, could you two get a room please? Or at least take your lover's spat elsewhere."
I was intending to leave this there Stu - please don't prolong it
Jim Carrol

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Stu
Date: 27 Sep 17 - 12:29 PM

"I was intending to leave this there Stu - please don't prolong it"

Get stuffed. You're here causing trouble again, ignoring the OP and perpetuating a feud and you have the cheek to say I'M prolonging it?


Shut the fucking thread please. This idiocy is proving a real bind.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Sep 17 - 01:07 PM

Nah, leave it open. I want to be optimistic. There will be no brexit. I know this because the Daily Mail said that May is engineering an abandonment of brexit. I hasten to add that I didn't buy the paper. I saw it in a rack in a shop with the headline showing.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Sep 17 - 01:22 PM

Disgraceful personal attack on Ake.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Sep 17 - 01:28 PM

Looks like Corbyn is making the running, what with a Tory Cabinet led by an eejit at each others throats and a vision of Britain's trade and jobs going down the pan
All we need now is Trump threatening to send in the marines
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Stu
Date: 27 Sep 17 - 02:22 PM

PM received from Jim:

"What the fuck are you doing Stu
Your's and Backwoodsman's abusive behaviour got the last thread closed -
don't do the same to this one - unless this is your intention"

My abusive behaviour? Seriously? You and the others should take a long hard look at yourself and what you are doing to this forum with your constant bickering and sniping at each other. Your insults aren't even witty or amusing, just mean and mealy mouthed.

I'm all for robust debate, but these puerile running arguments and insulting posts are well beyond the pale. Every thread is wrecked by you and your mates and any below the line debate is stifled by your collective belligerence.

This is so wearying.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Sep 17 - 02:57 PM

"What the fuck are you doing Stu
Your's and Backwoodsman's abusive behaviour got the last thread closed -
don't do the same to this one - unless this is your intention""
I deliberately PM's that dso it wouldn't fuck up this thread
That now seems to be your intention - I suppose a passing mod will acquiesce to your demands and punish us all for your now unacceptable behaviour rather than ask you to desist
Can't do much about that, I suppose
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 27 Sep 17 - 03:22 PM

Right back to the title. In the last 15 months the pound has fallen against the euro from 1.31 to 1.13. A drop of over 13%. It has also fallen against the Dollar. These have caused a rise in almost everything we purchase, not only in International trade but on the shelves at the supermarket and at the petrol pumps. These rises affect everyone irrespective of their income. People with surplus can carry these rises, people on the breadline struggle ....... or get into debt.

Fair, reasonable .......... I think not.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Sep 17 - 04:39 PM

Don't bloody do that, Stu, no matter how cross you get. If you find a private message offensive you go to the mods, not go public.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Sep 17 - 04:44 PM

That's exactly right, Raggytash. And the gvt and the private sector can't afford to pay the wages that anywhere near keep up with the ensuing inflation. We talk about an impending brexit disaster. It's not impending any more.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 27 Sep 17 - 05:08 PM

This royal throne of kings, this scepter'd isle,
This earth of majesty, this seat of Mars,
This other Eden, demi-paradise,
This fortress built by Nature for herself
Against infection and the hand of war,
This happy breed of men, this little world,
This precious stone set in the silver sea,
Which serves it in the office of a wall,
Or as a moat defensive to a house,
Against the envy of less happier lands,
This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England,

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Sep 17 - 05:24 PM

Twat.😂

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Stu
Date: 27 Sep 17 - 05:29 PM

"If you find a private message offensive you go to the mods, not go public."

I take your point Steve and perhaps you're right, I acted impetuously as I was so utterly pissed of with the Jim/Ake show spilling onto this thread for no reason at all. But... I wouldn't go to the mods as I see little reason why they should be bothered with this playground crap; they have a difficult enough job as it is.

I don't mind the combative and sometimes harsh discussions; it's the way we debate in the UK. What I object to is the constant dragging of unconnected information into these threads as a way of cheap point scoring during the pursuit of vendettas. It's rude, ignorant and not a little sad. That bystanders have to egg the protagonists on is equally depressing...

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Sep 17 - 06:02 PM

Forget it, everyone is fallible.

I was thinking that if Ake's initial post was 100% correct you all would be pleased as punch and rolling in clover. do you think?
But alas reality wakes and the dream fades.

Over here Twitler may screw up trade with China so bad that Walmart might start to disappear and prices will soar erasing any tax cut.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Sep 17 - 06:06 PM

I do get all that, Stu, and have been incensed enough to contemplate doing it myself. It's a right bugger, but if, in extremis, you feel the need to go public with a PM, it's best to invite the silly bastard who sent it you to retract, then give 'em an ultimatum...

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Sep 17 - 06:21 PM

Don't understand your remark concerning my IP Don? I stand by that post in its entirety.
The point of Brexit is to work our way out to all the economic problems which afflict us...to do so, we need the contribution of all our people and the markets which WE chose.....the parasitical reliance on immigrant labour is unsustainable in the long term. Alongside this new marketing strategy, we also need to urgently reform the education system and instigate proper training schemes for our people.
Party politics will never provide this....too many ideological stoppers. We need to work together, business and labour, to make a success of this venture.

If ideological obstructions cause us to fail our grandchildren will regard us as stupid and selfish.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Sep 17 - 07:02 PM

Expelling parasitical alien labor has brought the US to a point that 1/3 to half our produce goes unpicked and rots in the field or trees.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Sep 17 - 08:15 PM

"This royal throne of kings, this scepter'd isle,
This earth of majesty, this seat of Mars,"
A speech the Bard put in the mouth of one of England's most difunctional kings who screwed his way through every woman he could get his hands on, was totally incapable of controlling the plots against him mainly instigated by his two sons, Richard and John who were scrabbling for control of the throne, and who was forced to imprison his wife, Eleanor (known as 'the democratic drawbridge who went down for everybody') in a tower for 360 days of the year to stop her servicing all the male members of his court and poisoning his lovers
Not the greatest of recommendations Iains, but probably a pretty fair assessment of Britain after Brexit.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 27 Sep 17 - 10:46 PM

Twat.😂

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Ed.
Date: 27 Sep 17 - 11:52 PM

A speech the Bard put in the mouth of one of England's most difunctional kings

You appear to be a little confused, Jim. Iains posted a quote from Richard II, but you're burbling, frothy mouthed, about Henry II...

May I also respectfully suggest that you look a little further than 'The Lion in Winter' for historical insights?

By the way, the word you were looking for is dysfunctional.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Sep 17 - 01:45 AM

Don, it is not the immigrant labour which is "parasitical", but the system which uses it, above its obligations to the young people of the UK.
The EU makes the rules we implement them........not for long!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Sep 17 - 03:05 AM

"May I also respectfully suggest that you look a little further than 'The Lion in Winter' for historical insights?"
Sorry - confusing my Kigs and The lion in Winter didn't really come into it - it came from my researching the ballads, Queen Eleanor's Confession and Fair Rosamond and mixing the names up.
Thanks fotr the heads up
"Twat." (also "mindless stwats on a recently closed thread)
Smiley aside Iains, it's gratuitous insultinglike this, schoolyard bullying and hit-'n-run postings that have dragged some of these discussion to gutter level and have got threads closed
I suggest that steering clear of such childish behaviour and replacing it with adult argument might just raise it back to the level it used to be
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Sep 17 - 03:17 AM

Jim...I didn't get the last thread closed, it was you bunch of OCD Spunktrumpets who did that, with your non-stop bickering, your personal vendettas, your stupid, stupid, STUPID childish behaviour. Exactly as you've got dozens of other threads closed by your boorish behaviour. By your constant, obsessive fighting, you mob abuse right of the few remaining decent, normal people who have the fortitude to stick around, to enjoy intelligent, meaningful discussion. You're a disgrace.

If you crowd insist on behaving like childish twats, spitting dummies out, and throwing your teddies out of the pram on every thread you infect, don't complain when sane, normal, adults call you out on it. You are not clever people, you may think you are, but in the eyes of the many who have given up on this forum, you are morons.

Now...carry on, idiots, you'll have this thread closed soon.

Ten...
Nine...
Eight...

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 28 Sep 17 - 03:29 AM

Jimmie I copied your little packmate shaw's insult to me just to watch your entirely predictable behaviour. You and your wannabe bullies apparently think you have carte blanche to post whatever you like, yet act like stuck pigs when the tables are turned. Did you censure the idiot shaw for his gratuitous insult above? One law for the pack and one for the rest of us is it?
When you cannot reciprocate in the discussion with well constructed argument you resort to insult-presumably to make all those people embarrassing you go away, by having the thread closed. What a silly little man you are!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Sep 17 - 03:52 AM

"Jim...I didn't get the last thread closed,"
One of the last postings on the thread was your gratuitous "mindless twats" - a sort of slightly more intelligent version of "OCD Spunktrumpets"
I get tired of the slagging off by people like you, Ake and Teribus who reduce arguments to this level
Some of these subjects are complex and can't be dealt with superficially
I argue about the things I care about and I take these arguments to the lengths I believe they merit
I occasionally overstate my case, but I don't think I am gratuitously insulting - I have certainly never sunk to the level of your last depressing posting.
This forum is regularly being used as a platform for racism and hatred by a few people
There used to be a couple of Muslims at one time - there aren't now, I would hate to be gay and receive the waves of hatred and contempt of Akes diatribes - I know of intelligent Irish friends who washed their hands of this forum after some of the racism that was put up lst year.
I enjoy being here and I benefit greatly from much of the information that is put up - the generosity of some members still knocks me over
You talk of "many" the way you did of "people are fed up with you mindless twats" as if you had been elected spokesman
You like me and everybody else, speak only for ourselves
I argue passionately sometimes, and when I do, I put up as much information as I think necessary (it has often been complained that I put too much up)
That, as far as I am concerned, is what debating is about.
I wanted to end my comment on Ake's complaint about being slandered and move on - you and Stu have blown it up into a major altercation and your last posting has dragged it right down to schoolyard level
If this thread is closed, it is that which will have turned the key
Grow up and start behaving like adults
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Sep 17 - 03:54 AM

"Jimmie I copied your little packmate shaw's"
There - now you've gone and woken up the child
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Mr Red
Date: 28 Sep 17 - 04:11 AM

You ain't seen nuttin yet!
How many Grant-funded University Projects are going to have to be squandered, or bolstered from the windfalls Brexit?
How many air traffic regulation will have to be enshrined in new laws? Fancy a flight anyone?

Brexit is a change, and any change costs money. How many years do we expect it will take till pay-back?
Anyone who can put a figure on that is lying, knowingly. By the time their notional pay-back is past (still un-audited) the goal posts will have been moved - BRIC by BRIC (to mix meta-fours).
Brexit is a belief system, like all other religions. You worship or you doubt, (except in this case have it thrust down yer throat).

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 28 Sep 17 - 04:15 AM

I suspect if the EU and Spain get too heavy handed with Catalonia and continue to thwart their thirst for Independence then post brexit will escalate to post EU. spanish legal block on Independence referendum for Catalonia

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 28 Sep 17 - 04:48 AM

From: Mr Red - PM
Date: 28 Sep 17 - 04:11 AM

Brexit is a change, and any change costs money. How many years do we expect it will take till pay-back?
Anyone who can put a figure on that is lying, knowingly. By the time their notional pay-back is past (still un-audited) the goal posts will have been moved - BRIC by BRIC (to mix meta-fours).

As Mr Juncker has recently made perfectly clear. Brexit will bring about change, but remaining in the EU would also have brought about change, with ever closer union, creation of a EU army, forcing all members into a single financial authority (virtually impossible without first forcing the remaining members into adopting the Euro).
At least with Brexit we get to choose which changes we make.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 28 Sep 17 - 07:19 AM

Don't forget the rest of the speech, Iains. It finishes:
That England, that was wont to conquer others,
Hath made a shameful conquest of itself.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 28 Sep 17 - 07:19 AM

Don't forget the rest of the speech, Iains. It finishes:
That England, that was wont to conquer others,
Hath made a shameful conquest of itself.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 28 Sep 17 - 07:52 AM

I read you the first time!

How you equate demanding Independence with "Hath made a shameful conquest of itself" rather escapes me I am afraid. Demonstrates the dangers of quoting poetry I suppose.
Try this one instead!

This land of such dear souls, this dear dear land,
Dear for her reputation through the world,
Is now leased out, I die pronouncing it,
Like to a tenement or pelting farm:
England, bound in with the triumphant sea
Whose rocky shore beats back the envious siege
Of watery Neptune, is now bound in with shame,
With inky blots and rotten parchment bonds:

Far more accurate I would say.

Who wants to play next?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 28 Sep 17 - 07:59 AM

Both poems/quotes seem to picture 'England' as surrounded by sea(s).

Maybe they meant 'Britain'!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 28 Sep 17 - 08:06 AM

D McG. Adolf Hitler.
       "Only constant repetition will finally succeed in imprinting an                     
       idea on the memory of the crowd"

Nice try but I am not convinced!