BS: Post Brexit life in the UK

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 03:41 AM

The relevance of miners in this thread escapes me, other than the fact that the cracking of heads seems to be a feature of the protestor's life since the police morphed into paramilitary bodies. I believe in the UK it started in London with the special control groups in 1961. The most recent demonstration of the art is in Catalonia.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Teribus
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 03:45 AM

"Spain's Constitutional Court has suspended the referendum and the central government says it is illegal.

That is all the Spanish Government had to do - no physical action was ever required.

Instead Guardia Civil Units were deployed there from other parts of Spain, people were physically prevented from voting, polling stations were stormed and people attacked resulting in horrendous scenes and 888 civilians and 11 police officers injured - small wonder no-one was killed.

Catalonia has an electorate of some 5.3 million. Of that number 2.2 million apparently managed to vote yesterday. I assume that that number mainly represents the "hard-core Separatist" element considering the publicity the event provoked in the days leading up to the referendum itself. Of the 2.2 million votes that were cast yesterday 90% voted for independence. That means 1.98 million out of an electorate of 5.3 million voted for independence for Catalonia.

The Spanish Government should have made their statement and permitted the non-binding, unconstitutional referendum to go ahead peacefully, denying the electorate nothing. The result, I believe, would have been a resounding NO.

The can has just been kicked a little further down the road. There will be a referendum at some point in the future and yesterday's events will have been etched on the minds of many Catalonians who up until yesterday were undecided.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 03:53 AM

"So, Jim Carroll, are you ready to withdraw your comment?"
Of course I most certainly not - the photograph I chose is Iconic of what happened at Orgreve and elsewhere https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2012/dec/02/miners-strike-orgreave-special-report where miners, their families and their supporters were beaten down by mounted police and those on foot carrying shields and batons
It was a vicious breach of democracy by Thatcher and her thugs compounded by the fact that she was prepared to use the army had she thought it necessary
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/jan/03/margaret-thatcher-secret-plan-army-miners-strike
Thatcher was a self-confessed fascist who openly declared her admiration for a mass-murderer's style of government and described those who tried to bring him to trial for his crimes as "running a police state" (end of quote) – she even had her own little rally complete with crossed British/Chilean flags
Pinochet's crimes are beyond denial – there, but for what passes for British democracy, limited as it is, would have gone Britain, and I have no doubt that the miners would have held pride of place among her victims
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 03:58 AM

Jim Carroll "Made-up-shit".
Carroll stated
more Jim Carroll "Made-up-shit".
Carroll is trying to make
(one posting)
It seems that our hero is baxck to his old insecure, thread-cosing self with a vengeance
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 04:13 AM

From: Jim Carroll - PM
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 03:53 AM
"So, Jim Carroll, are you ready to withdraw your comment?"
Of course I most certainly not - the photograph I chose is Iconic of what happened at Orgreve and elsewhere https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2012/dec/02/miners-strike-orgreave-special-report where miners, their families and their supporters were beaten down by mounted police and those on foot carrying shields and batons

The link you chose shows someone who turned up because there was going to be a fight (her own words)who was NOT hit by a police baton.

If the photo is 'iconic' of anything it is of the misrepresentation which can be found on almost any subject, and which is used by the politically inclined to support a biased 'historic' viewpoint.

You choose not to withdraw the statement. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 04:19 AM

The truth of the matter is that Scargill thought he was above the law.
The magnificent Thatcher chastised him with the rule of law. Government runs countries not jumped up unions. The industry was dying long before Thatcher arrived on the scene. Additionally, closing the industry prevented many deaths and injuries. In 1926 there were 1.2million miners, in 1976 247k. Thatcher was elected in 1979 well after the industry was in it's death throes.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Mr Red
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 04:51 AM

Another early bonus from post Brexit:
Monarch Airlines goes bust. They cite the weak GB Pound (their transactions are in $s, revenue in Sterling). Deniers have a get-out (in their own planet) because the reduction in traditional middle east tourism due to fears over terrorism has weakened revenue in a currently more competitive market.

A legal nicety, courtesy of the EU, means 100,000 (really?) passengers need to be found/funded alternatives to be re-patriated. Another law that will need to be, and might be, Britisized, when Treeza (or Jezza gawd help us) get round to it.

Change costs money and those changes will cost us personally. And they are creeping out of the woodwork slowly. We will never be able to audit them all, but I can hear the pay-backers singing loudly on the pluses. Most of which will be emotional, rather than practical - like "we get to choose". We've chosen, we pay the price.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 05:27 AM

From: Mr Red - PM
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 04:51 AM

Another early bonus from post Brexit:
Monarch Airlines goes bust. They cite the weak GB Pound (their transactions are in $s, revenue in Sterling). Deniers have a get-out (in their own planet) because the reduction in traditional middle east tourism due to fears over terrorism has weakened revenue in a currently more competitive market.

Anything to support that claim about the "weak GB pound" being the cause?
Even the BBC who usually take any opportunity to lash out at Brexit only mention it in passing.
From the BBC:
What has gone wrong?
Monarch reported a loss of £291m for the year to October 2016, compared with a profit of £27m for the previous 12 months, after revenues slumped.
It had been in last-ditch talks with the CAA about renewing its licence to sell package holidays, but failed to reach a deal
Blair Nimmo, from administrator KPMG, said its collapse was a result of "depressed prices" in the short haul travel market, alongside increased fuel costs and handling charges as a result of a weak pound.
The transport secretary blamed a victim of a "price war in the Med".
However, Monarch chief executive Andrew Swaffield said the "root cause" was terrorism in Egypt and Tunisia, as well as the collapse of the market in Turkey.
He said it had been carrying 14% more passengers than last year - but for £100m less revenue.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 06:13 AM

If exchange rates are being blamed for economic problems now, think of the joys of corbynism. He has wargamed the impact of a run on the pound should he become premier. The loony left apparently have a vestigial contact with reality.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Teribus
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 07:55 AM

What on earth are you complaining about? Your name is Carroll isn't it?

Or is it the fact that once more been caught out in a complete and utter fabrication?

"If the photo is 'iconic' of anything it is of the misrepresentation which can be found on almost any subject, and which is used by the politically inclined to support a biased 'historic' viewpoint." - Nigel Parsons

Seems as though someone else on this forum has got your number down dead to rights.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 07:58 AM

"The truth of the matter is that Scargill thought he was above the law.
The magnificent Thatcher chastised him with the rule of law."

Any support for this resounding declaration from you of what the truth is, what was in Scargill's mind or what Thatcher had him convicted him of? Let's see more of your sword of truth, Iains!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 08:29 AM

"What on earth are you complaining about? Your name is Carroll isn't it?"
My chosen identification is Jim Carroll "Carroll" is an attempt top talk down and bully as most schoolchildren know
I repeat the bit our Tory contingent have carefully ignored
Thatcher was a self-confessed fascist who openly declared her admiration for a mass-murderer's style of government and described those who tried to bring him to trial for his crimes as "running a police state" (end of quote) – she even had her own little rally complete with crossed British/Chilean flags
Pinochet's crimes are beyond denial – there, but for what passes for British democracy, limited as it is, would have gone Britain, and I have no doubt that the miners would have held pride of place among her victims
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Teribus
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 08:30 AM

Scargill Arrested

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Teribus
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 08:34 AM

Thatcher? Pinochet? Another attempt to deflect attention away from the fact that you got caught out Carroll?

What have either to do with "Post Brexit life in the UK"?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 08:39 AM

SCARGILL ARRESTED
POLICEMAN CALLS FOR ENQUIRY
MAY CONSIDERS ENQUIRY THIRTY YEARS TOO LATE
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 08:42 AM

"Thatcher? Pinochet? Another attempt to deflect attention away from the fact that you got caught out Carroll?"
You are happy to discuss the miners strike - when it come to who caused it and how she behaved you run for cover
That's what it's got to do with post Brexit
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 09:05 AM

Let's see more of your sword of truth, Iains!
Short answer. No!
Long answer. No!

Not in your classroom now stevie boy.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Teribus
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 09:09 AM

"You are happy to discuss the miners strike"

Really Carroll show me where and when?

First mention of "miners" was made by YOU - Jim Carroll - 01 Oct 17 - 02:56 PM - when you told your "porkie" about British police mowing down miner's wives.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 09:10 AM

You are happy to discuss the miners strike - when it come to who caused it and how she behaved you run for cover
That's what it's got to do with post Brexit
Jim Carroll

I think, if you look a little further up the thread you will find that you introduced the miners' strike with your link to a photo which you thought supported the contention that 'miners wives' were 'mown down' by the British police.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 09:34 AM

I introduced the photo to show that our police are quite happy to behave like those in Barcelona without help of the EU hence my comment
You people took it up and used it as yet another opportunity to give the British working man a kicking, as is your wont and you all have been quite happy to do so until you are faced with the fact that the woman you all support was a self confessed fascist – then you all shit blue olllies and cry foul – thus is your grasp of open debate
Elsewhere your ilk has been happy to take any subject and use it as an opportunity to launch racist attacks on Travellers
God bless British democracy and freedom of speech
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 09:37 AM

"A legal nicety, courtesy of the EU, means 100,000 (really?) passengers need to be found/funded alternatives to be re-patriated. Another law that will need to be, and might be, Britisized, when Treeza (or Jezza gawd help us) get round to it."

The UK repatriated people stranded by bankrupt airlines long before joining the EU. I suggest you look at the history of Court Line.
I actually know a little about this as a part of the operation survived in Capetown as Court Helicopters and I flew them for 2.5 years.
Court Line

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 10:03 AM

I introduced the photo to show that our police are quite happy to behave like those in Barcelona without help of the EU
And I have made clear that that photo showed nothing of the sort.

You people took it up and used it as yet another opportunity to give the British working man a kicking, as is your wont
Sorry, where was that?

Elsewhere your ilk has been happy to take any subject and use it as an opportunity to launch racist attacks on Travellers
I have never made racist comments about travellers

God bless British democracy and freedom of speech
Yes, it gives you the right to spread lies and disinformation.
Unfortunately for you it also gives us the right to correct your errors.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 10:15 AM

"I have never made racist comments about travellers"
I said your ilk
You can tell a man who boozes by the company he chooses
And the bleedin' pig got up and walked away.
As the song so eloquently puts it
If I tell lies have the balls to point them out and not just allude to them - another thing common to your ilk
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: MikeL2
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 10:22 AM

Hi Iains

<" Government runs countries not jumped up unions">

Not Completely true. The Unions have huge influence on the Labour Party. They dance to the Unions' tune. Ask Red Ed Milliband.

Cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 10:26 AM

Jim,
If you attribute attitudes and actions to me "and my ilk" you are tarring us all with a very broad brush. Just the thing you would not wish us to do for travellers.

As for your lies, you stated that British police were able to mow down miners wives. If not a lie, then at the very least an unsubstantiated accusation. Just like your comments about miners being killed in South Wales.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Teribus
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 10:30 AM

"You people took it up and used it as yet another opportunity to give the British working man a kicking"

You linked your totally misrepresentative photograph and were pulled up for doing THAT - please point out to anyone reading this thread where anybody then went on to "give the British working man a kicking". Since posting your lie - 01 Oct 17 - 02:56 PM - nobody has even mentioned the British working man you clown.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 10:40 AM

"You linked your totally misrepresentative photograph and were pulled up for doing THAT -"
You have persitently kicked workers - scroungers ruiners of industry - lazy stupid.... even a potential itinerant work force
Hour hatred of ordinary Brits reches the same level as how you regard Travellers and the Irish
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 11:29 AM

MikeL2
"They dance to the Unions' tune. Ask Red Ed Milliband."
I found the tune they dance to! Enjoy.

Hotel Corbynista

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 12:27 PM

"The link you chose shows someone who turned up because there was going to be a fight (her own words)who was NOT hit by a police baton."
From my link
Grace Shaw: So it's Orgreave on a sunny day in June, didn't look like it was all about to kick off. What happened next?
Lesley Boulton: "There had been some stuff going off before I arrived but I don't know exactly what happened. A few stones going over - nothing major at all. There was a standoff for a while - a few stones went over, and then there was a massive cavalry charge up into the village.
"The ranks of the police were several deep. They opened up and the police did a series of cavalry charges and pushed us back into the village and then blockades were set up - a police blockade at one side of the bridge and a miners' blockade at the other side of the bridge.
"There's a T-junction there and a bus stop. I was attending to a man who was on the ground and seemed to have some chest injuries.
"I was standing trying to attract the attention of a police officer in the road to get him an ambulance. I didn't know how serious it was but I thought it warranted some medical attention.
"The skin of my teeth"
>"As I stood up to attract this policeman's attention, this officer on a police horse just bore down on me."
This was the very moment that John Harris took the picture of Lesley.
"Fortunately for me there was someone standing behind me who was also with the injured miner, who just yanked me out of the way.
"The photographer John Harris was using a motor drive and I've seen not just the famous photograph but the subsequent picture which shows the baton going down very close to me.
"I felt it go past me. I was just missed by the skin of my teeth really.
"That part was very, very disturbing. The police were actually having a very good time, they were enjoying this huge exercise of brutal authority, so I found that very disturbing.
"You got the sense that they were just out of control and quite a few miners were injured on the day. One young lad that I took a photo of had his leg broken. There were quite a lot of injuries."
GS: If the policeman's baton had hit you, would it probably have knocked you out?
LB: "Oh absolutely, without equivocation."
GS: Do you think the policeman thought you were a miner?
LB: "I don't know, I was holding a camera as I was trying to attract attention and I don't know what he thought really. The police were completely carried away. Some of them were laughing and obviously enjoying this exercise of their power.
The footage from Orgreave showed police on horses charging into defenceless men, and one officer repeatedly lashing a miner, Russell Broomhead, over the head with a truncheon. There was also the shocking photograph of a woman, Lesley Boulton, seemingly about to be smashed across the head with a long stave wielded by a police officer on a horse. She was pulled to safety, but many of the newspaper pictures of arrested miners showed them bleeding down their bodies from nasty wounds to their heads.

From The Daily Star 1st December 2013
The shot of Lesley Boulton narrowly avoiding a baton strike was a key image of the 1984-85 dispute.
But the negatives disappeared after she tried to bring an assault case.
They were considered a "crucial piece of evidence" but police argued the image may have been tampered with.
Without them, Lesley's case – which backed up accounts by miners who said they were "indiscriminately battered" by police the same day – never went ahead.
No officer ever faced charges over the events at Orgreave, South Yorks, on June 18, 1984, during which 51 miners were injured.
Almost 30 years on, campaigners want justice and the Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) is studying files from the time.
Lesley, 68, hopes they contain clues about what happened to the negatives, which she believes were stolen from a London picture library.
She also says her case files went missing after a "senior police officer from London" visited her Sheffield lawyers.
I don't tell lies, but On the other hand, those who make statements like this do
" non-existent piles of dead miners Carroll stated had been massacred at Tonypandy - shot down by armed police under the direct orders"
I have said exactly how many were killed at Tonypandy adding only that eye witnesses claimed there were several more
The thousnds is made up Teribus lying shit
Daily Mirror journalist, Geoffrey Goodman, in his 'The Enemy Within' describes early morning baton charges through mining villages where up to twenty women and children were injured
If I missed the detail on one atrocity there are others to choose from   
As I said – I don't tell lies
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 12:54 PM

I wouldn't exactly call Ed Miliband "red," Mike. And Labour, in thirteen years, didn't exactly reverse the swingeing attacks on the unions by the preceding Tory regimes, did they? It's right and proper, given the origins of Labour and trade unionism, that the unions have a voice. With the Tories it's big business and vested interests who have the voice, not to speak of the hard right in the party who are at this very moment plotting to get rid of May. But the Labour Party does not dance to the union tune and, arguably, never did. That's just tired old Tory party propaganda and it stopped working for you decades ago. If any PM in history did dance to the unions' tune it was Edward Heath. And Cameron danced to both the hard right tune and the UKIP tune. My pay doubled under Heath in a mere 18 months in the early 70s and the unions were cock-a-hoop. Anyway, I've been a trade union member for 45 years and am now a Labour Party member too. We're better together!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 01:08 PM

Nigel
"If you attribute attitudes and actions to me "and my ilk" you are tarring us all with a very broad brush. "
Just as those who use terms such as "leftie" do
I have yet to disassociate yourself from these low-life and you support the same policies, so your silence is proof enough fro me
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Teribus
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 01:35 PM

Here we have a Jim Carroll CLASSIC:

"I don't tell lies, but On the other hand, those who make statements like this do

" non-existent piles of dead miners Carroll stated had been massacred at Tonypandy - shot down by armed police under the direct orders", [Teribus]

I have said exactly how many were killed at Tonypandy adding only that eye witnesses claimed there were several more
The thousnds is made up Teribus lying shit

Jim Carroll's lies:

1: That miners were shot and killed (piles of corpses) in Tonypandy under the direct orders ("shoot left", "Shoot right") of Winston Churchill. ONE Miner died as the result of a head injury caused by a baton not a bullet. The truth is that NO Miners were shot or died as the result of gunfire. The truth is that Winston Churchill was opposed to sending in troops and he was not present to order anybody to do anything.

2: Looking at my post quoted above where is the reference to there being thousands? I cannot see it - Jim Carroll can - Jim Carroll always sees things that are simply not there.

3: Miner's wives that were mown down - NO SUCH THING EVER OCCURRED - to state that it did IS A LIE.

4: "You people took it up [Carroll's Iconic Photograph] and used it as yet another opportunity to give the British working man a kicking" - Jim Carroll

You linked your totally misrepresentative photograph and were pulled up for doing THAT - please point out where anybody then went on to "give the British working man a kicking". Since posting your lie - 01 Oct 17 - 02:56 PM - nobody has even mentioned the British working man you clown.

LIES Carroll and they are all YOURS.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 01:56 PM

From Russia today.
"It took the European Commission more than a day to respond to Sunday's violence in Catalonia, in which a police crackdown on voters left some 900 people injured. The EU Council president has urged the Spanish PM to avoid further "escalation" and "use of force."

Strange behaviour. It was obvious to a two year old that violence was going to occur. Seems the President could have been a bit more prescient and forceful with his pathetically inadequate pronouncements. I also get the distinct impression the newspapers are trying hard to downplay the events in Catalonia. Maybe not false news, but a little massaging perhaps?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 02:17 PM

Maybe it's like Northern Ireland. Maybe you need to live there.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: MikeL2
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 02:45 PM

Hi Steve

I was not inferring that I thought Ed Milliband was a "Red". I was just repeating the name he had been called towards the end of his sad time as leader.

I too benefited from Heath's "generosity !!

I had moved companies at that time. I was paid a good salary - what they offered at my interview. After being in the nine months it tirn out they had quoted me the wrong rate for the job nine months . I was back-payed nine months' pay which included a 15% increase thanks to Heath.Didn't like the guy but I did raise my glass to him !!!!

Hope you had a great time in Madeira - We love the place. The soil is so fertile that if you stuck a broom handle in the soil it would sprout and produce flowers.
Regards

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 04:00 PM

We loved it, Mike. It was our first visit and we didn't really travel much beyond lovely Funchal, though we did get to the incredible viewpoint at Cabo Girão and the fishing village of Câmara de Lobos where there's an amazing fish restaurant. We stayed outside Funchal near São Martinho in a lovely B&B, discovered courtesy of Alastair Sawday's website. Glorious gardens and great civic pride and we'll be back! And yes we did do a levada walk, unguided and slightly hair-raising in places! Good old EU!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 06:19 PM

By the way, Mike, how can I not mention those traditional Portuguese custard tarts. I think I know a lady down in Exeter Quays who makes them, though only on Saturdays. I have my bus pass. My God, how I live in hope...

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 03 Oct 17 - 03:37 AM

From: Jim Carroll - PM
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 01:08 PM
Nigel
"If you attribute attitudes and actions to me "and my ilk" you are tarring us all with a very broad brush. "
Just as those who use terms such as "leftie" do
I have yet to disassociate yourself from these low-life and you support the same policies, so your silence is proof enough fro me

So, according to you anyone who uses the term 'leftie' is a 'low-life'. As I said, very broad brush-strokes.
As for "I have yet to disassociate yourself" that is a clause that makes no sense however I try to read it. I have not, knowingly, associated myself with 'low-lifes' and so cannot disassociate myself. But you seem to be saying that you can disassociate myself.

I think I shall leave this thread for now, as I am past trying to reconcile what you say/type with anything either reasonable or understandable in the English language.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Oct 17 - 03:58 AM

"So, according to you anyone who uses the term 'leftie' is a 'low-life'. As I said, very broad brush-strokes."
It is used as a term of abuse on this forum by those who throwit about - a dismissal of argument - it is usually terminated by "mob" or "pack" or "gang"
I have no problem wit being described as "leftie" though it is inaccurate - I am a humanist with left wing views and an interest in politics and history
By "low-life", I'm referring to those who substitute name-calling personal insults and blustering bullying for articulate argument
You tand to make your points more intelligently and usually, I can see where you are coming from and argue if I disagree, but your political views invariably run on simiar to the low-life and you have disparaged and name-called on occasion (I think - if I am wrong, I apologise).
These are the people I associate your arguments with
Your last insulting sentence tends to confirm what I believe
I'm not particularly well educated, but I have always read up my interests
I make a large number of typos due to an idiosyncratic keyboard which I'm reluctant to replace because of its transcription features, but I' not bad at spelling and I say what I say as clearly and honestly as I can and link to published information when possible
The problem with these forums is that they are full of "ioks" (another favourite phrase of your friends) who haven't had the benefit of a higher education
Maybe you should opt for 'First Class' rather than 'Steerage' !!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Mr Red
Date: 03 Oct 17 - 05:52 AM

Anything to support that claim about the "weak GB pound" being the cause?
Yea the BBC reported
"the weakness of the pound following Brexit"
implication, if not attribution.

Plenty of pundits in the city ascribe the weakness of the pound to uncertainties over Brexit. You don't have to look far, but you do have to look. Your choice not to. Feel free.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 03 Oct 17 - 06:28 AM

I think part of the problem is that some people are asserting Brexit is THE cause of Monarch's failure (or other issue of your choice) while others are pointing out it is not THE cause.

The reality is that the weakness of the pound is A cause, amongst others. Nigel's post where he asked for evidence that it was the cause even contained a bit he highlighted himself saying it was a factor. It was just not the single and sole cause, or even perhaps the most dominant factor.

That is still a cause in my book. You may disagree, of course.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 03 Oct 17 - 06:44 AM

My response about Monarch Airlines was a response to Mr Red's post of 2/10/17 04:51 which appeared to put the whole affair down to Brexit.
The various published comments do no appear to give any credence to that view.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 03 Oct 17 - 07:06 AM

That's fair enough, Nigel, but I am sure you can appreciate that arguing that "the whole affair cannot be put down to Brexit" risks be misunderstood as "Brexit is not involved in any way." Quite different things, I hope you agree.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 03 Oct 17 - 07:57 AM

That's fair enough, Nigel, but I am sure you can appreciate that arguing that "the whole affair cannot be put down to Brexit" risks be misunderstood as "Brexit is not involved in any way." Quite different things, I hope you agree.

Yes, I fully agree that that form of wording could be misleading to those who do not read English carefully. Fortunately I didn't use that phrase. What I said was: My response about Monarch Airlines was a response to Mr Red's post of 2/10/17 04:51 which appeared to put the whole affair down to Brexit. As you'll see I was not attempting to identify the root (or any) cause. Just pointing out that Mr Red's comment appeared to read that Brexit was the sole cause of Monarch's failure.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: MikeL2
Date: 03 Oct 17 - 02:55 PM

Hi Steve

Glad you enjoyed Madeira.

I know most of the places you mentioned.

We ate in Camara de lobos Several times. We sampled Espada - fried fish with banana - lovely. We also enjoyed their Espatada which is Beef wrapped in banana leaves served on huge metal skewers.
We saw the Espada fish in the fish market - ugly huge black fish that looks as though it was wearing a black shiny raincoat.

We stayed in the Eden Mar hotel quite close to the Lido.

We did several of the Levada walks and enjoyed them thoroughly.

On one of these purely by chance we happened on the Madeira Football Ground. They were holding a sports day for the schools. We were invited to watch and they gave us a bottle of wine. On the outside of the pitch several of the Madeira football team were training. We took several pictures of the day.
Some years later we were going through the pictures with our son and family. My wife had taken a shot of three young footballers running.
Our son jumped up and shouted " that is Ronaldo". At that time he was playing for Manchester United.

Your post gives us both lovely memories. Thanks

Regards.

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Oct 17 - 05:13 PM

Ah, that's great, Mike. And this lovely bit of Madeira banter is definitely on-topic as Madeira, being Portugal, is very much a part of the EU. I wonder what they'll think of us Brits once we leave. We won't be quite so special any more. We'll be more like all those yanks who arrive in massive cruise ships and fill the little Funchal streets with their noise (and their dollars, I suppose). We saw the espada in that fabulously-smelly fish market too. The fish restaurant in Camara was owned by a chap who also owned a meat restaurant. We much preferred the former. We had garoupa the first night and bream the next time we went. It was a brilliant restaurant. Five stars when I get round to Trip Advisor!

We went to Blandy's for a tour and a Madeira tasting. The five-year-old Bual was on special offer so we bought six bottles, delivered for free to the post-security departure area. Jaysus, we struggled to lug that lot around!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Teribus
Date: 04 Oct 17 - 02:40 AM

Portugal is England's oldest ally in Europe, the alliance goes back centuries so I do not think their attitude to "us Brits" will change in any significant way. We will still be welcome as visitors who contribute a massive amount to their economy.

Meanwhile over the border in Spain it would appear that their government is determined to make a bad situation even worse. The Catalan President is on record as stating that either at the end of this week, or early next week, they could declare themselves independent.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 04 Oct 17 - 04:16 AM

I see many here would prefer to cast nasturtiums rather that aspersions at the EU. Must be nice to live in the gilded bubble of constant delusion. Meanwhile down the rabbit hole, wherein lies reality: The Catalonians have ejected over 500 police from their hotels, 700,000 people are protesting in Barcelona, and the Catalan President intends to declare independence shortly.A General Strike has also been called for. This is just the start. Anyone for happy families?

Some very significant points raised in the article below, especially concerning human rights legislation and it's abandonment in the EU.

Referendum ripples.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Oct 17 - 04:29 AM

"Portugal is England's oldest ally "
Portugal was a fascist state under Salazar up to 1974
Great reference!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Oct 17 - 04:32 AM

Whoops, for the pedents
"under Salazar up to 1974 "
Should read "till four years after his death, up to 1974
Jim Carroll