BS: Post Brexit life in the UK

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: peteglasgow
Date: 16 Oct 17 - 01:48 PM

'reorganisation of society' ? i'm assuming you mean fairer, more diverse, more inclusive and above all more compassionate? (or some sort of combination of the usual humanitarian wish list) - i'm all for all that stuff

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Oct 17 - 03:09 PM

I guess you are being ironic, Peter, but just in case, no he doesn't. He wants an end to people from Europe, particularly Eastern Europe, invading his 'sceptered isle;. He wants an end to treating people fairly om the grounds of sexual preference and he wants women back in their place at the kitchen sink. Like the good old days of family values, wife beating and child abuse.

Apart from that, you got it right :-)

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 16 Oct 17 - 03:23 PM

"Rag,Headline in todays Guardian UK Inflation set to hit five year high............... Yes. 3%."

What ignorance and arrogance.

If the cost of living increases by 3% and your income doesn't you're in s*** street. If you're at the lowest end of society, struggling now, a 3% increase is devastating.

If someone cannot comprehend this simple equation they must be a complete idiot.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Stanron
Date: 16 Oct 17 - 04:20 PM

'Bad Deal' is used as something to compare with 'No Deal'. But we already know what 'No Deal is. 'No Deal' is trading on WTO rules. As has been said earlier, we do this already with countries outside the EU. The means of doing this are in place and functioning. A 'Bad Deal' with the EU is anything worse than this. What's the problem? Are you trying to confuse those people who don't have the intelligence to make this distinction? There may not be all that many of them to confuse.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: akenaton
Date: 16 Oct 17 - 04:29 PM

Don't confuse them with truth Stan.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: peteglasgow
Date: 16 Oct 17 - 04:50 PM

i'm not that bothered about the money . more important is the people thing. our daughter lives in estonia and is a printer in a cultural centre and an artist. her estonian boyfriend is a really good feller and works with computers and in the arts. they are both lovely young people (really, you would like them) but won't meet them as they won't be earning enough to come and live here if they wanted to. you leavers don't want to give them the chance but there is no objection to mega rich billionaires buying up streets in london and elsewhere and messing up the housing market for all our people. the EU is partly about peace and partly about improving links between previously warring nations. sod that. give me hate - you broken, bitter people.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Stanron
Date: 16 Oct 17 - 05:05 PM

One of the joys of posting after 'Pop Oclock' is bizarre answers.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: peteglasgow
Date: 16 Oct 17 - 05:11 PM

what does this mean, stan? what is 'pop o'clock' and when is it where you live? i'm off any pop and tucked up in bed on a wet and windy west coast night.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 16 Oct 17 - 05:17 PM

(WTO rules) The means of doing this are in place and functioning. A 'Bad Deal' with the EU is anything worse than this.?

But ake has said things substantially better than that are a bad deal if free movement is part of it.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Oct 17 - 06:28 PM

When you hear any Tory or any other right-winger talking about no deal, just be aware of their dishonest agenda. Two weeks ago no deal was persona non grata. So what?s changed? What?s changed is that anything like a half-decent deal has receded into the distance. Therefore, they say, let?s talk up no deal. And what can we set that against to make it sound better? Why, the mythological bad deal, of course!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Oct 17 - 06:31 PM

Blimey, can?t get used to this new Apple keyboard!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Stanron
Date: 16 Oct 17 - 06:56 PM

Certainly after Pop Oclock.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: akenaton
Date: 16 Oct 17 - 07:08 PM

You're being disingenuous Steve, although I am neither a "Tory" nor a "right winger", I did vote to leave and have stated consistently that it is preferable we leave without any deal which ties us to Free Movement, or control by the ECJ.
The EU are unwilling and indeed unable to meet these conditions, so it must be "Walk Away".

Free Movement has always been the biggest obstacle immigration control was the greatest driver of the Brexit vote and no realistic societal change is possible until it is outlawed in the UK.
Reliance on immigrant labour is counter productive in the long AND short term, it is also parasitical in nature and anti socialist, it is indeed an economic tool of the capitalist system.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Oct 17 - 07:21 PM

Nah, you?re not a Tory nor a right-winger. You are a pathetic, bigoted and extremely confused man. Nothing you say here ever makes sense. Go and roof a house or two, keep yourself fully occupied in so doing and fer chrissake take as long as you like.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: akenaton
Date: 17 Oct 17 - 03:49 AM

In Steve's world of equality, roofers are too stupid to have or express opinions.
I'll let you into a secret Steve, people like me contribute more to society than snobbish ex-schoolteachers.
Your failings in comprehension and expression have been well exposed lately by someone of real intelligence and logic.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Oct 17 - 04:13 AM

Rag,
If the cost of living increases by 3% and your income doesn't you're in s*** street. If you're at the lowest end of society, struggling now, a 3% increase is devastating.
If someone cannot comprehend this simple equation they must be a complete idiot.

Historically, 3% is a low rate of inflation.
It is only 1.5% more than EU inflation.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Oct 17 - 04:16 AM

Meanwhile the bad news piles in. No progress from May yesterday, the French and Germans demanding a harder line...Va te faire foutre avec votre pie-in-the-sky trade deal aspirations...

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Oct 17 - 04:18 AM

3% inflation. Nurses pay rise capped at 1%. Nurses are worse off. What is so difficult to understand?

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Oct 17 - 04:19 AM

3% is double 1.5%. At 1.5% pay could just about keep pace. At 3% the living standards of ordinary working people are hit hard. But never mind. According to you Tory types we?re all in it together...

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 17 Oct 17 - 04:21 AM

The effects of "No Deal" ......... an article in todays Guardian.


Implications of No Deal

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 17 Oct 17 - 04:34 AM

Of course this would come on top of the fall in living standard caused by the current rise in the cost of living.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: akenaton
Date: 17 Oct 17 - 04:35 AM

Calm down lads, I remember inflation rates in double figures under a Labour govt....

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Oct 17 - 04:39 AM

I remember inflation rates in double figures under a Labour govt

What was the standard pay rise rate and interest on savings?

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 17 Oct 17 - 04:44 AM

Not only a Labour Government but Conservative Governements too Akenaton as you well know.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Stu
Date: 17 Oct 17 - 05:35 AM

"You're being disingenuous Steve, although I am neither a "Tory" nor a "right winger""

Guffaw!!!!!! Brexit, Farage, Trump, defending Nazis, extremely vocal homophobia (hmmm), hating the poor etc etc

Then...

"Reliance on immigrant labour is counter productive in the long AND short term, it is also parasitical in nature and anti socialist, it is indeed an economic tool of the capitalist system."

Xenophobic codanglers based on nothing to do with the real world. This is utter shite of the highest possible purity and ignorance and is not a statement based on reality but is a statement born of hatred and gullibility in the face of alt-reich propaganda.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: akenaton
Date: 17 Oct 17 - 06:38 AM

Stu, have a look at Jim Sillars social and political views, they are nearer to mine than any other politician that I know.
Would you say that he is all the things you call me, or is it simply that you have run out of ideas on this forum and fall back on an abusive defence of your ideology?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Stu
Date: 17 Oct 17 - 08:25 AM

I don't have an ideology. I do however give a shit about people, especially those disadvantaged.

Jim Sillars is just another gobshite politician, although I don't recall him being a xenophobe or homophobe, but then I don't follow Scottish politics with quite the zeal a Scot might.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 17 Oct 17 - 09:23 AM

A BBC report today from the OECDwhich states that reversing the Brexit vote would boost the UK economy.

OECD Report

It also makes comment about a "No Deal" situation none of which are beneficial to the UK

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Stu
Date: 17 Oct 17 - 09:47 AM

Interest rates 3% and rising. Come on you Brexiteers, you're giving us all the kicking we so richly deserve!

Meanwhile, everyone else is blaming everyone else for the fuckups in the negotiations. Except of course those of us that are part of the 48% as the Brexiteers don't ask its or value our opinions. So we are actually NOT to blame. Ha!

Tick tock tick tock tick tock...

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 17 Oct 17 - 10:11 AM

Meanwhile, everyone else is blaming everyone else for the fuckups in the negotiations. Except of course those of us that are part of the 48% as the Brexiteers don't ask its or value our opinions. So we are actually NOT to blame. Ha!

Surely you know the 48% are to blame for talking the country down?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 17 Oct 17 - 10:14 AM

Of course the OECD is a completely non partisan organisation with a membership including all the EU member countries. This obviously means there can be absolutely no bias in their utterings, and those that believe this automatically get lifetime membership of the tooth fairy appreciation society.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: akenaton
Date: 17 Oct 17 - 10:36 AM

I suppose you were being ironic "d", but the 48% are to blame for making negotiations more difficult. Most of them
have come to terms with the fact that we are leaving, but cling on to some vain hope that we can remain in the CU and retain some form of "Free Movement".

If they genuinely had the country's interests at heart they would not be taking every opportunity to put the boot into our negotiating team.

Every point scored is propaganda for the EU and believe me they are watching carefully what is going on in the UK.....all internal opposition means we leave on worse terms than we could negotiate if we put up a united front.

You are correct on one point, I want the deal to be so bad that our negotiators are unable to accept it and we sever all ties with the Political Union

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Stu
Date: 17 Oct 17 - 10:38 AM

Ah, another sage uttering from one of the 52%. How's them negotiations going old boy?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 17 Oct 17 - 10:45 AM

From: Stu - PM
Date: 17 Oct 17 - 09:47 AM
Meanwhile, everyone else is blaming everyone else for the fuckups in the negotiations. Except of course those of us that are part of the 48% as the Brexiteers don't ask its or value our opinions. So we are actually NOT to blame. Ha!

Might be a good argument if it were true.
75% of the Cabinet, including the PM were among that 48%.

Are you seriously saying that if Brexit goes 'tits up', no blame can be placed on Mrs May?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 17 Oct 17 - 11:09 AM

The OECD also includes Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Korea, Israel, Chile, Japan, Mexico, Norway, Switzerland, Turkey and the United States.

So they are obviously biased towards the EU?

Do you believe in the tooth fairy then Iains?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Oct 17 - 11:23 AM

According to Rag's Guardian article, food prices will actually fall after brexit if we buy food tariff free on the world market, which I am sure we would do.

We are currently forced by the EU to impose tariffs on food imported from outside EU. That is very cruel to struggling developing nations desperate to sell their agricultural produce.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 17 Oct 17 - 11:47 AM

No it doesn't say that at all does it professor, you're making things up ....... again.

The article says that "some conservative MP's have said that prices would fall............."

Seeing as these politicians along with the rest of us have been denied access to reports commissioned by David Davis on the effect of Brexit on industry, they cannot seriously make any such claims.

If you believe them I would suggest you are a bigger fool than even I take you for.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: akenaton
Date: 17 Oct 17 - 12:04 PM

"If you believe them I would suggest you are a bigger fool than even I take you for. "

Raggytash, it's quite obvious neither you nor Keith are "fools", what's the point of continually name calling and being insulting?
Why not try to discuss things civilly?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 17 Oct 17 - 12:20 PM

The OECD burblings are simply that. They have no data to make projections with, simply assumptions. It is a forecast and economic forecasts are even less accurate than weather forecasts.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 17 Oct 17 - 12:26 PM

Do I detect you are moving the goalposts Iains? My word I think I do!!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 17 Oct 17 - 12:35 PM

Raggytash. You have a vivid imagination, if little else!

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 17 Oct 17 - 01:12 PM

Slides for the OECD Report, for those interested. I can't find an actual report, so if someone else does, please link to it.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Stanron
Date: 17 Oct 17 - 02:12 PM

The OECD, originally the OEED, was founded in France and has it's headquarters in France. You're not trying to tell us all that it could be biased on a subject like Brexit. What possible motive could there be for that?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Oct 17 - 05:31 PM

"The OECD burblings are simply that. They have no data to make projections with, simply assumptions. It is a forecast and economic forecasts are even less accurate than weather forecasts."

Right. So you're saying that the OECD is less qualified to judge whether brexit is a good idea than an ignorant British electorate who voted on the basis of a bus slogan, a million vacuous utterances about "taking back control" and a load of Farage xenophobia. Riiiight...

You brexiteers are scared. You hear bad news every day. Today it was May's failed dinner date and the OECD utterances. The inflation news was great too, wasn't it? That was also a consequence of the leave vote and the ensuing collapse of the pound. I do admire your brave faces. Deep down, just like the rest of us, you know that if brexit goes ahead we are completely stuffed. I advise you not to laugh or sneer at that, because in six months' time we'll still be here to remind you.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Oct 17 - 06:04 PM

And come on now, you Tories... Iains, Keith, Bill, Stanron, akenaton... right, the OECD is making you shift uncomfortably from one buttock to another, Theresa's dinner chat-up lines with Jean-Claude were a failure, the inflation figures look shit (all brexit's fault due to the collapsed pound), growth worse than other major EU countries, productivity shite, and now Amber and brexit Doc Liam are at odds over no deal... your side are in total disarray, the country is rudderless and it isn't funny. We are half way from the brexit vote to leaving date and bugger all has happened. What you gonna do? Stay paralysed?

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 17 Oct 17 - 06:21 PM

Don't forget postponing the committee stage of this .

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Oct 17 - 07:34 PM

Grim times ahead. Thank you very much, spineless call-me-Dave.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: akenaton
Date: 18 Oct 17 - 03:00 AM

"The risk, however, must be that with so much to debate and a limited time to do it in we will lose sight of the wood for the trees. Both MPs and ministers are going to have to focus on the key issues if the necessary changes are to be made to improve the Bill."

Exactly the point, stop whining and show some positivity any more obstructions and the government will have no alternative than to walk away. The 75% of MPs with their eyes on the EU trough are trying to sabotage the democratic will of the electorate.

It is the obstructionists in parliament and in the country who have delayed the progress towards Brexit.

IMO the Union has about five years before it completely disintegrates, we should be moving fast to get the new trading regime up and running rather than be delayed by self serving MPs and deranged ideologues.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Teribus
Date: 18 Oct 17 - 03:10 AM

"the EU is partly about peace and partly about improving links between previously warring nations."

Well you got that right Pete - it was set up to keep two specific European countries from each others throats - France and Germany - that is ALL the EU project has ever been a cosy club run for THEIR specific benefit, it has rules which THEY (Particularly France) can ignore and amend whenever they chose.

Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Teribus
Date: 18 Oct 17 - 03:31 AM

Steve Shaw - 16 Oct 17 - 07:21 PM

"You are a pathetic, bigoted and extremely confused man. Nothing you say here ever makes sense. Go and roof a house or two, keep yourself fully occupied in so doing and fer chrissake take as long as you like."

Yet another example of Shaw's reasoned and informed debating skills.

"No Deal" means we leave and trade with every other country in the world in accordance with WTO rules, we also leave without paying the EU a single penny. Very dangerous for the EU if we do that and it is seen to work - How many more of their remaining 27 members will think of jumping ship?

A "Bad Deal" is something that Corbyn & Co would secure for us where we continue to pay in and be messed about by the unelected Commissioners in Brussels. An example of "a bad deal" was the one a former Labour Prime Minister got for us. He negotiated that we received a reduction in the rebate negotiated at Maastricht in return for the EU revising, reducing and working towards the abolition of the CAP. WE did get the reduced rebate and the EU did S.F.A. about the CAP payments (France benefits too much from them - cosy club rules remember?).

By the way Shaw - "Go and roof a house or two, keep yourself fully occupied in so doing and fer chrissake take as long as you like." - I believe that Akenaton is retired and he did previously earn his living as a roofer and tiler. A job I believe where anyone who makes a living out of it has to perform to the critical standards set by those employing him to THEIR satisfaction. He has to do that on an everyday basis and he has the job satisfaction of seeing the results of his labours everyday of his life - you on the other hand Shaw just got paid for turning up.